yep identical lists.Originally Posted by mistercakes
He had 2x Show & Tell & Emrakul versus a Knight of the Reliquary, Showed in the the Emrakul, Knight finds Karakas and bounces, Scott looks with top, sees vesuva, doesn't legend kill karakas and show the emrakul back in for the match win.
Hard play to see, but it would've won it hands down. It was his 1st time piloting a deck we built a 2nd copy of on the ride up, so Scott did an amazingly good job with it. The deck greatly improves its matchups like Maverick with copious amounts of playtesting as well, so considering the odds against him, Scott did a hugely amazing job.
Hey all,
Been playing around with this deck on MTGO for the last week or so. Keep running into this situation where I'm holding a Crop Rotation with one colored source in play, and one or two colorless sources. Is there any general rule of thumb on when to aggressively Crop Rotation and when to hold onto it (i.e. in reponse to Wasteland)? And whether it is correct or not to sacrifice your one colored source? Feels like whenever I sacrifice my one island or Tropical, I end up drawing colored spells only for the next few turns. Or when I sacrifice a Glimmerpost instead I end up being one or two short on Eldrazi mana.
I found when I was watching people play the deck, that I play very very VERY defensively. I use brainstorm as a very last resort, same with Crop rotation, and I am willing to sit and wait for my opponent to commit to a line of play before I go all-in on any real plan.
In general I play with this mana-priority SDT > Expedition Map > Brainstorm > Crop Rotation. This gives you the most amount of looking for the least amount of risk.
I have been doing some testing-in-secret, well not that secret if I'm posting it here with GSZ. And yes, I know everyone will explode with ideas about it, but GSZ almost ENTIRELY just for Titan 5+. Results have been surprisingly impressive.
// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [ZEN] Forest (3)
// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [M10] Pithing Needle
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
I super welcome card ideas, especially because I do NOT know green creatures as much as spells, but just to nip a few in the bud, these are ones I've already considered and found lackluster: Gamekeeper, Sakura Tribe-Scout, Magus of the Candelabra, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Knight of the Reliquary, Eternal Witness. Gaddock Teeg.
I've never played this deck, but I have a lot of experience with green creature toolbox decks, so here are a few suggestions...
Lotus Cobra is good at its job, and with all the Titans/Maps/Crop Rotations you're running might let you get an Eldrazi out one or two turns earlier. At the very least, it always turns Titan into costing four instead of six (assuming you have the six mana, of course). It might also allow you to cut back a bit on colored sources.
Wood Elves has been doing all right for me in Nic Fit, but I'm not sure it fits well here. Might be worth considering.
My final suggestion is a little odd, but Avenger of Zendikar also seems like it might work well. It can create a whole bunch of random blockers, you only need to run one, and those blockers can get big and become win conditions if you have a Titan or two out.
I'm sure there are other things I'm forgetting, but those are the MD suggestions...
Actually, thinking properly, some SB suggestions that might or might not be really good...
Scavenging Ooze. Obvious reasons, but possibly not enough green to use it properly.
Thragtusk. A guaranteed blocker and five life is good against many decks, and has a light color requirement if you draw it.
Gaddock Teeg, if only for combo and whatnot.
And, fourthly, a Wickerbough Elder/Qasali Pridemage. Useful for getting rid of pesky enchantments and whatnot.
Not sure if any of those are better than what you're currently running, but they certainly aren't terrible suggestions, at least. Hopefully at least one of those is useful. I'm honestly really interested to see how Avenger of Zendikar works out, as I've always waned that card to do something useful in a format like this.
EDIT: In related news, a singleton Boseiju seems like it would be amazing with GSZ. Unconquerable Titan search could be very strong here. Also, out of interest, why aren't you running 1-2 Loam in the sideboard?
Acidic Slime could act as pseudo-removal since you're not running Devastation Tide anymore.
Fierce Empath maybe to tutor up a Titan or Eldrazi, but guess that'll depend on how well you're curving out.
Thank you for the multi-suggestions! I had forgotten to add fierce empath to the list of already debated cards. I like the ideas all around. I already had a scavenging ooze in the SB, but Harmonic Sliver was a little gem I found by poking around Maverick lists. AMAZING against both random combo like sneak attack & Omniscience but also against MuD, Back to Basics & Choke.
I thought about Avenger briefly, but I would just want a titan if I'm going for that high CmC.
I also looked at Krosan wayfarer as a "better" Sakura-Tribe scout, but it will require testing.
About Loam, Eldrazi triggers don't play well with it.
I'm going to suggest something that I would never thought I would and it might still suck, but singleton elvish piper for you GSZ. Ugh, I can't believe I said this. Kitchen table magic at its worst, but hey if you end up with a GSZ and an eldrazi in hand Eldrazi, it could turn your GSZ in a worst, but useful version of Show and Tell.
EDIT:
IF, and only IF, that card would make sense in this deck, the next very difficult question is, which foil version is better? 7th or urza's destiny
EDIT 2:
I really doubt this is gonna work. You'd rather GSZ into a Titan and hardcast the Eldrazi that way and it dilutes the deck and makes it weaker to removal. Since Norwood Priestess only works on green creatures and piper has summoning sickness, I don't think this will work. Ah well, it was fun to flirt with the idea for a second :).
Yep fun to theorize, but the idea is to have a card that substitutes or enhances my board state, not relies on my hand already being strong =P
What are the problematic matchups and board situations that most frequently arise? That way, it's a bit easier to think about what type of targets you'd wish to get.
Xantid Swarm seems like it could help you against counter heavy decks, but again, I'm working in the blind here.
Another interesting green card is Magus of the Candelabra. Turns your GSZ's into slightly worst Candelabra's, but the density of your Candelabra's would increase by a pretty big factor.
If you play 2 Candelabra of Tawnos, 3 Green Sun's Zenith and 1 Magus of the Candelabra, you have access to 6 Candelabras for only 3 slots.
Cloudthresher eats Delvers, Drakes and most other stuff for breakfast.
Indrik Stomphowler and Acidic Slime are really strong noncreature hate.
Budoka Gardener ramps early, but also has late-game potential when flipped, as it makes a huge Elemental each turn afterwards.
Qasali Pridemange is always a fun card to get out.
wow. that one has me actually sitting down and thinking!
Actually, thinking about it, is there a reason you wouldn't run Tooth and Nail over GSZ if your only targets are Primeval Titans? It also makes Avenger slightly better, and can just straight up fetch and play the Eldrazi. Probably not great, but I thought I'd at least suggest it. I guess it's probably worse largely because it's a worse Show and Tell while GSZ is easy ramp with Titans, but I'm not positive on that.
Regardless, I think Boseiju is something you want to run if you're looking at the GSZ or Tooth and Nail plan, as you don't usually care much if it's a colorless source, you get the life back easily from Glimmerpost, and it essentially makes your Titans uncounterable, as well as allowing for uncounterable Show and Tell for an Eldrazi, and you have a bajillion ways to fetch it.
Summoning Trap?
Enrique Llano and a few others have taken an interesting approach, basically combining 12Post with Secret Force, adding ramp from Wood Elves, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Solemn Simulacrum, and more creature/board state targets like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Gaddock Teeg.
Link to most recent GWdecklist: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...6&iddeck=64019
Link to older, MonoG decklist: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=62407
The difference between 7 mana single color versus 9 double color is quite big, easily a turn, ifnot two. As you mention, GSZ lets me ramp early for Dryad Arbor, which is probably my favorite aspect, giving me an opportunity for a turn 2 Show & Tell, which I have never had available. In testing, I almost always lay out Locuses as much as possible and just hold a colored source in hand and GSZ on the appropriate turn, which the Tooth & Nail plan doesn't allow. I like the idea though!
About boseju, it isn't something to ignore entirely now that I am at 6 sorcery speed wins, but the matchups where I would have my spells being countered, I'm winning already. Any matchup with White, Merfolk or any control deck get even more stomped than normal with this build. The decks that will be clocking me, where I need a titan to win me the game, Goblins, RUG, Affinity they will be pressing my life total already, so I fear the life loss. I will test it of course, but my initial impression is apprehension.
The deck list is interseting. If I were to go GW I would include x4 Knight of the Reliquary though, since it is the sauce. I think my creature count is too low to support Summoner's trap, and nearly every deck in the format can deal with Emrakul shown into play, hence why GSZ is the royal nuts, because virtually noone can deal with Titan.
This deck wants Loaming Shaman over Scavenging Ooze, or a 1/1 split for extra flexibility. Immediate impact (effect immune against removal), no strain on colored mana, hits everything, and you should already have plenty of lifegain from Glimmerpost. Loaming Shaman even has fringe applications against Brainstorm, because you can force a shuffle if you really need to, but this just a very minor detail to keep in the back of your mind when you're staring down your GSZ in hand. Also, you can shuffle your own stuff back, though I think that happens even less frequently. One line of play where that would be relevant is when your Eye of Ugin or other utility land gets wasted and you need to get it back with Primeval Titan.
I am a big fan of the Loaming Shaman, used to live by it, but after the printing of Bojuka Bog it was less necessary, and after testing Scavenging Ooze, it is ridiculously strong. I actually had 2x in the SB for awhile since it single-handedly changes the RUG and maverick matchup. Loaming shaman is good, but it doesn't decide games the way ooze does.
Im gonna try out the GSZ too. However, the only exciting targets besides titan are:
-Dryad arbor - perfect for ramping out
- Thragtusk - Buys time and is great with devastation tide. If you got enough mana you will want titan 99% of the time so I'm not sure this is worth it either. Also easy to hardcast
Scavenging ooze seems to need more green mana than we can afford. It might have some impact in the RUG-matchup, but the matchup is very good for us already as stated before. It can also shrink Knight of the reliquary, but not stop it from fetching wastelands. The biggest reason to run this would be the reanimator-matchup, but I doubt it's worth maindecking for that purpose
Agree with all this. Currently I only have 5 GSZ targets among my 75. Arbor and Titan main; Teeg, Ooze, and Harmonic Sliver side.
The Dryad arbor is actually so much more impressive than I thought it would be I'm debating going to 2 main. free lands to crop rotate out after blocking are actually amazing for buying turns.
If Sneaky Show is giving folks problems, which it shouldn't, Tajuru Preserver + maze/chasm is nearly impossible for them to deal with. Hilariously, Tajuru Preserver is actually incredible in the mirror also. I used to laugh at this prospect, but I now have 2 teammates who want to play my 2nd copy of the deck I have built, and a 3rd one is almost assembled.
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