I am in agony. I've done so well with it at the last tournaments I've done and just about finished foiling it outOriginally Posted by Wanderlust
I'm very sad right now. Top was the heart and soul of this deck.
Basically the whole fast mana engine that Top enabled - cracking LEDs and then flipping top to cast stuff; and turning on Mox Opals - is dead. Engineered Explosives is now much worse as it doesn't draw our deck anymore.
It's possible other builds of Bomberman can be playable, but they are a different deck.
RIP the most fun deck I've ever played
We NEED to find a new build. I love this deck.
// Deck: Bomberman (60)
// Lands
1 Ancient Den
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
1 Great Furnace
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Spellskite
4 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista
// Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thirst for Knowledge
// Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Æther Spellbomb
// Planeswalkers
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Grand Abolisher
SB: 1 Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 Manic Vandal
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Peacekeeper
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
The top ban is a shame, but I've been thinking about how to change things up today.
Land (22)
1x Ancient Den
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
4x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
4x Flooded Strand
1x Great Furnace
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
Artifact (20)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mishra's Bauble
3x Mox Opal
Creature (16)
4x Auriok Salvagers
3x Imperial Recruiter
2x Monastery Mentor
3x Trinket Mage
4x Walking Ballista
Planeswalker (2)
2x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Sideboard (15)
1x Containment Priest
1x Defense Grid
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Manic Vandal
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sphere of Law
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x War Priest of Thune
Basically you can draw your whole deck with mishra's bauble but you have to wait a turn to kill. Also you can use chalice because you don't need 1 drops anymore thanks to top ban and walking ballista as a kill condition.
Incorrect, sorry -> [[With Mishra's or Urza's Bauble, if you play a single Scout's Warning, you can kill them in their upkeep with Walking Ballista rather than giving them a whole turn to do things.]]
After a bit of goldfishing with the post-Top lists, I'm realizing that Trinket Mage is much worse now too, as it can't tutor up a library manipulation/card quality engine.
(Every time I have Mishra's Bauble in my hand and imagine it as Sensei's Divining Top I get really really sad all over again.)
Last edited by Wanderlust; 04-25-2017 at 02:30 PM.
I don't see how scouts warning works. You can't make infinite mana on their turn.
Yeah, you would need like Leyline of Anticipation in play.
Derp, sorry guys. I suppose Glorious End could do what I was envisioning instead. With all of the Bauble draw triggers on the stack at the beginning of their upkeep, crack LED for RRR, resolve the draw triggers into Glorious End, kill them in our new turn. Only doesn't work if Glorious End is the bottom card of our library.
That is actually super spicy. I like that a lot.
So the glorious end kill is hilarious. This is what I have now.
Land (22)
1x Ancient Den
3x Ancient Tomb
4x Arid Mesa
4x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
1x Flooded Strand
1x Great Furnace
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Karakas
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
Artifact (20)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mishra's Bauble
3x Mox Opal
Creature (16)
4x Auriok Salvagers
3x Imperial Recruiter
2x Monastery Mentor
2x Trinket Mage
4x Walking Ballista
Instant (1)
1x Glorious End
Planeswalker (2)
2x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Sideboard (15)
1x Containment Priest
1x Defense Grid
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Manic Vandal
2x Phyrexian revoker
1x Sphere of Law
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x War Priest of Thune
I saw Caleb D. play a version of the deck earlier and I wonder: Why not Intuition?
It can fetch any combo piece (LED, Ballista and even Salvagers) and can even fetch a combination of LED and Ballista if you only have Salvagers.
Intuition sounds awesome. Might be better than trinket mage in the list I was posting since there are so few artifacts you want to tutor and getting two in one shot is awesome. Trinket mage is nice though because if you just need LED you can tutor it with imp recruiter and cast it through a cavern, both things Intuition can't do.
I've been testing three different versions in the post-Top era:
1. Painter's Servant/Grindstone jammed into an otherwise-unaltered list from what we arrived at as "optimal" before the top ban, replacing 4x Top and 3x flex slots, and the 2nd EE
2. A Bant version with Traverse the Ulvenwald in place of Imperial Recruiter allowing us to cut red entirely and to run more blue filtering and green goodies (like everyone's favorite cat wizard, Qasali Pridemage) without demolishing the manabase
3. Birthing Pod Bomberman! Initial concept features the new Devoted Druid / Vizier of Remedies combo which plays so nicely with Walking Ballista.
The Painter/Grinstone version has actually been testing really well so far. Grindstone isn't the worst thing in the world under Salvagers + LED, as you can mill yourself with it (albeit slowly) looking for the kill condition. And of course the tutors we were playing anyways find pieces of the Painter combo too, not to mention LED accelerates it, and Cavern on scarecrow can be a thing when necessary. Academy Ruins seems like a must in this build.
Trinket Mage + Birthing Pod is actually a stellar way to set up Bomberman. I was really excited about an initial list that I threw together, but then started testing it against RUG Delver and found the list to just be too mana hungry. I'm hoping that with more tweaking a streamlined list emerges that has enough early acceleration and an effective ladder of 1->2->3 drops and silver bullets to make Birthing Pod worth it.
Spot on about the pros of Trinket Mage over Intuition. What about a split running both? I'm going to test that in the Painter/Grindstone version and see how it does.
I got 3rd at this event playing Thalia stompy. Congrats on the finish .
Thanks, man.
I think Birthing Pod sounds promising. I think the question is how many mana dorks and how many non comno utility creature do we have room for. Maybe something like:
20 lands
4 Salvager
4 Trinket
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Coiling Oracle
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Walking Balista
2 Devoted Druid
1 Vizier of Remedies
1 Eternal Witness
4 LED
4 Birthing Pod
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
Last edited by itrytostorm; 05-01-2017 at 11:27 AM.
Another idea:
Land (20)
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
4 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Tundra
Creatures (26)
4 Mom
4 Auriok
4 Imperial
4 Trinket
4 Walking Ballsita
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Palace Jailer
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Pia and Kiran
1 Ethersworn
1 Grand Abolisher
Artifact (12)
4 Chalice
4 LED
4 Vial
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Nahiri
Here's what I've been working on:
4 Recruiter
3 Salvagers
3 Mentor
3 Ballista
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
2 EE
2 Paradoxical Outcome
4 Flooded Strand
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Vocanic
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
1 City of Traitors
1 Karakas
1 Great Furnace
1 Ancient Den
1 Plains
1 Island
So far, it's more fun than good. The Outcomes are the newest addition, and can add some real hilarity to a Mentor-heavy board state.
BRING BACK MANA BURN!
Vial is an interesting option! Could be really strong. My biggest concern with the list currently is that it looks a little too heavy on 3 and 4 drops, making Vial slow to impact the game. Also it likely has a hard time answering flipped delvers, compounding what could be a pretty sour RUG Delver matchup (barring an early Chalice @ 1 that doesn't get countered, of course.) Any way to fit in more cheap removal that still functions with Chalice on 1? (Sudden Shock? Punishing Grove combo?? Maindeck Sudden Demise? Who knows.) Also, what about fitting an EE back in to tutor with Trinket Mage?
I've been experimenting with the Mentor-Bauble-Chalice build as well. I think the 4 Lotus Petals add too much air - I was running out of gas too often and hated drawing them late. I've also been going back and forth on Trinket Mage vs. Imperial Recruiter. In the end, I actually think I might prefer BOTH over Mentor. Mentor honestly seemed a little bit inconsistent in this build. I've mostly been jamming games against RUG Delver. Occasionally Mentor was nuts, sure, but a lot of the time I was just making a Monk or two that had to be thrown under the Tarmogoyf bus, or it just ate a Bolt and left behind the loneliest Monk token. Without Sensei's Divining Top, I was disappointed with Mentor's performance and didn't feel like it could race RUG Delver's threat suite often enough. Imperial Recruiter and Trinket Mage can also stall a Goyf briefly, but actively set up the combo win at the same time.
---
Thinking about the meta going forward, I'm concerned specifically about beating Elves, RUG Delver, Show and Tell decks, and combo. Chalice is strong in all of those matchups, and Ensnaring Bridge is good in 3 of the 4, so I'm trying a Bauble-Chalice list right now with Ensnaring Bridge main. (Bridge fills the gaping hole left in the deck's removal suite that was previously filled by Pyrite Spellbomb and Swords to Plowshares, which have to be cut in the Chalice builds.)
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Walking Ballista
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
Lands (22)
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Ancient Den
1 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
1 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Aether Spellbomb
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 4 Oblivion Ring (yes, I REALLY want to beat Show and Tell decks.)
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Sudden Demise
Punishing Grove I think may be too rough on mana. STP was great cheap interaction but with Sneak, Storm, Grixis running so many 1 CMC, I think Chalice is better. The sudden shocks are amazing and can maybe see running 2 main. Vials don't do much until they tick up, but allow for 2 or more 3 mana creatures entering each turn, which is nice. May not be correct, but more testing will help. Maybe we go Painter style and running 4 Bridges and more Walkers as alt. win cons with top being gone.
Well, I won a GPT and got 2 byes for GP Las Vegas today, bringing an end to weeks of grieving for Sensei's Divining Top (and what I thought was the end of Imperial Bomberman). Well, in a sense that deck is ended, as technically the name should change to Imperial Baubleman, as there are no bombs left! Decklist below a quick report. Note: I was running 1x Shimmer Myr as a 61st card to be able to win in their upkeep off of the Salvager combo + Bauble triggers (instead of Glorious End, which we were discussing earlier in this thread, which just seems too sketchy outside of the combo.) Many thanks to .dk for picking up the Shimmer Myr for me the morning of the tournament at another store elsewhere in Denver. I felt like a badass every time I cast that clunker and then didn't lose the game.
Round 1: Infect (0-2)
I get crushed. Chalices get countered both games; he wins on turn 2 and then on turn 3. (Matchup may be worth sideboard slots in the future?)
Round 2: Grixis/Burn Hybrid (2-0)
Game 1 I have a nutty hand, combo involves Shimmer Myr in opponent's upkeep. Game 2 I almost lose to Vial Smasher the Fierce triggering off of Thunderous Wrath and Gurmag Angler, but am able to combo the turn before I would have died.
Round 3: BUG 3-drops (2-0)
He rips apart my hand with Hymns both games, but I learn how incredible Auriok Salvagers + Baubles can be as a card advantage engine as I start drawing 3 extra cards per turn with the 6 mana I eventually have sitting there. I just bury him in card advantage. Contextually this felt realllly strong, and not something that the spellbomb lists could do as efficiently.
Round 4: BG Turbo Depths (2-1)
Very interesting match. The maindeck Karakas and Ensnaring Bridges, and the Aether Spellbomb from the board, do serious work. A Shimmer Myr on the battlefield is sweet in game 3, actually, as it lets me leave Karakas untapped until after he has declared attacks before sinking mana into Engineered Explosives to kill a couple of Vampire Hexmages that were beating me down; and later, to cast instant-speed Ensnaring Bridges.
Round 5: Breakers are good enough for the ID.
Top 8: Burn (2-1)
Game 1, I Urza's Bauble him immediately and see a Chain Lightning, so I make the risky play of City of Traitors -> Chalice on 1. Works out pretty well, stranding multiple cards in his hand. I do have to kill a Harsh Mentor and an Eidolon of the Great Revel with Walking Ballista en route to the combo, putting me within Price of Progress range, but he doesn't have it. Game 2 I die to the usual burn thing. Game 3 Chalice is good enough to win it for me. During sideboarding, I realized that Sudden Demise is pretty good out of the board for answering Burn's increasingly numerous hatebears.
Top 4: BUG Food Chain (2-0) piloted by .dk
Bummer to knock out the purveyor of Shimmer Myrs and a great friend... Chalice on 1 disrupts his flow game 1 and I combo off. In game 2, he Food Chains in 2 Misthollows and a Scourge, but doesn't have the Walking Ballista for the insta kill. At the end of his turn, I bounce his Leovold with Karakas and plan to combo off with Baubles into his next upkeep. I already have Shimmer Myr on the battlefield. But he responds to my Bauble triggers in his upkeep by Abrupt Decaying the Shimmer Myr, shutting my combo down for that turn. The best he can do, though, is attack me to 5, as he didn't topdeck the Walking Ballista or draw it off of the Leovold trigger. I'm able to just win with the 40+ cards in my hand on my next turn.
Finals: Stoneblade (2-0)
He mana floods both games, and my Chalices on 1 turn off his removal and filtering.
Above all I was REALLY EXCITED that Imperial Bomberman may still have legs!!
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Walking Ballista
1 Shimmer Myr
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
Lands (22)
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Ancient Den
1 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
1 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Aether Spellbomb
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Sudden Demise
My sideboard didn't really do very much work today, but then again I didn't face the godawful Show and Tell or Storm matchups that it's geared to fix. Since the deck seems to be decently set up to beat most other things, maybe it's okay to hedge so heavily for bad matchups? Also it's pretty nice that the sideboard can now forget Miracles and that the 4 Chalices main help a lot of matchups that previously did demand sideboard attention. In fact, the Ensnaring Bridges main help some previously awkward matchups as well, including Eldrazi, and sometimes even the feared Sneak and Show if they aren't on the Omni plan. Are we actually BETTER positioned in the meta than before the Top ban?? Hard to believe, but for today I can believe in not-Miracles.
Congrats on the finish. I'm real happy this bauble chalice build is working out. Ensnaring bridge main is looking nice.Well, I won a GPT and got 2 byes for GP Las Vegas today, bringing an end to weeks of grieving for Sensei's Divining Top (and what I thought was the end of Imperial Bomberman). Well, in a sense that deck is ended, as technically the name should change to Imperial Baubleman, as there are no bombs left! Decklist below a quick report. Note: I was running 1x Shimmer Myr as a 61st card to be able to win in their upkeep off of the Salvager combo + Bauble triggers (instead of Glorious End, which we were discussing earlier in this thread, which just seems too sketchy outside of the combo.) Many thanks to .dk for picking up the Shimmer Myr for me the morning of the tournament at another store elsewhere in Denver. I felt like a badass every time I cast that clunker and then didn't lose the game
Round 1: Infect (0-2)
I get crushed. Chalices get countered both games; he wins on turn 2 and then on turn 3. (Matchup may be worth sideboard slots in the future?)
Round 2: Grixis/Burn Hybrid (2-0)
Game 1 I have a nutty hand, combo involves Shimmer Myr in opponent's upkeep. Game 2 I almost lose to Vial Smasher the Fierce triggering off of Thunderous Wrath and Gurmag Angler, but am able to combo the turn before I would have died.
Round 3: BUG 3-drops (2-0)
He rips apart my hand with Hymns both games, but I learn how incredible Auriok Salvagers + Baubles can be as a card advantage engine as I start drawing 3 extra cards per turn with the 6 mana I eventually have sitting there. I just bury him in card advantage. Contextually this felt realllly strong, and not something that the spellbomb lists could do as efficiently.
Round 4: BG Turbo Depths (2-1)
Very interesting match. The maindeck Karakas and Ensnaring Bridges, and the Aether Spellbomb from the board, do serious work. A Shimmer Myr on the battlefield is sweet in game 3, actually, as it lets me leave Karakas untapped until after he has declared attacks before sinking mana into Engineered Explosives to kill a couple of Vampire Hexmages that were beating me down; and later, to cast instant-speed Ensnaring Bridges.
Round 5: Breakers are good enough for the ID.
Top 8: Burn (2-1)
Game 1, I Urza's Bauble him immediately and see a Chain Lightning, so I make the risky play of City of Traitors -> Chalice on 1. Works out pretty well, stranding multiple cards in his hand. I do have to kill a Harsh Mentor and an Eidolon of the Great Revel with Walking Ballista en route to the combo, putting me within Price of Progress range, but he doesn't have it. Game 2 I die to the usual burn thing. Game 3 Chalice is good enough to win it for me. During sideboarding, I realized that Sudden Demise is pretty good out of the board for answering Burn's increasingly numerous hatebears.
Top 4: BUG Food Chain (2-0) piloted by .dk
Bummer to knock out the purveyor of Shimmer Myrs and a great friend... Chalice on 1 disrupts his flow game 1 and I combo off. In game 2, he Food Chains in 2 Misthollows and a Scourge, but doesn't have the Walking Ballista for the insta kill. At the end of his turn, I bounce his Leovold with Karakas and plan to combo off with Baubles into his next upkeep. I already have Shimmer Myr on the battlefield. But he responds to my Bauble triggers in his upkeep by Abrupt Decaying the Shimmer Myr, shutting my combo down for that turn. The best he can do, though, is attack me to 5, as he didn't topdeck the Walking Ballista or draw it off of the Leovold trigger. I'm able to just win with the 40+ cards in my hand on my next turn.
Finals: Stoneblade (2-0)
He mana floods both games, and my Chalices on 1 turn off his removal and filtering.
Above all I was REALLY EXCITED that Imperial Bomberman may still have legs!!
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Walking Ballista
1 Shimmer Myr
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
Lands (22)
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Ancient Den
1 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
1 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Aether Spellbomb
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Sudden Demise
My sideboard didn't really do very much work today, but then again I didn't face the godawful Show and Tell or Storm matchups that it's geared to fix. Since the deck seems to be decently set up to beat most other things, maybe it's okay to hedge so heavily for bad matchups? Also it's pretty nice that the sideboard can now forget Miracles and that the 4 Chalices main help a lot of matchups that previously did demand sideboard attention. In fact, the Ensnaring Bridges main help some previously awkward matchups as well, including Eldrazi, and sometimes even the feared Sneak and Show if they aren't on the Omni plan. Are we actually BETTER positioned in the meta than before the Top ban?? Hard to believe, but for today I can believe in not-Miracles.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote