True again, but half of the cantrips are Sorceries. But this just makes clear that Confusion is only good for the fact that it can be cast and that is a very weak point.Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Chalice on 1
Is it a point at all if confusion isnt even meant to be cast? This assuming, like ashen rider, that it's meant to be cheated into play as well. Good conversation here!
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Bridge and Trinisphere are pretty good against Omni. Confusion at least has a chance of working against Sneak Attack and Through the Breach. I would probably bring in Spine or Karakas over Ashen Rider or Splendor. Peacekeeper is another piece of tech that Imperial Painter used to run as extra virtual bridges.
In that vein, blazen archon would be better than peacekeeper.
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Since we're going pretty deep here, if like to throw Sandwurm Convergence in for consideration.
I have been trying out this spice in the wish board:
1 Devastating Summons (Has not disappointed)
1 Landslide (With Moon Effects as a finisher, haven't got to cast it yet)
1 Sowing Salt (for Lands Matchup, haven't got to cast it yet but seems good against them)
I do really believe that even on the Wish lists, we should probably run 4 Fiery Confluence MD
In a deck that wants to resolve a Chalice of the Void at 1 and is comfortable sitting behind an Ensnaring Bridge, you want to be in a winning situation WITHOUT the cards mentioned before and then sack all (or at least the mayority of) your lands, survive the turn (with your elements), and then kill your opponent the next turn. Sounds not like the greatest plan...
Anarchy Seems like a good Wish target in the D&T match up
Just got my first 5-0 ever in legacy league on Mtgo using pinkfrosting's exact list above. Played against storm three times. The deck definitely has a lot of gas with the wishboard. Played against a UW control and he pretty much had to counter everything I played or I would get too far ahead. Player Had to counter Chandra pyromaster, new Chandra, boiling seas, blood moon, chalice, trinisphere, and chalice all turn after turn. I feel like opponents are keeping in creature removal even though our only beaters are magus and spirit guide. Can we get away with 3 chrome mox? I hate drawing multiplesin the late game. Deck felt really good. Props to pinkfrosting for bringing this to the forefront.
In regards to Anarchy, I think I am going to try it in the board in place of the stone rain.
Seems like pinkfrosting has a winning list. I'm wondering if anyone has been playing spyglass with a burning wish package?
For reference my list:
4 moon
3 magus
4 cotv
3 3ball
3 spyglass
3 bridge
3 confluence
4 wish
4 chandra torch
2 chandra pyromancer
4 ssg
4 chrome mox
11 mountain
8 sol land
Wishboard: rolling earthquake, stone rain, pyroclasm, confluence, anarchy, roast, banefire, Boom bust
1 bridge
4 faerie macabre
2 kozileks return
Last edited by jandax; 10-11-2017 at 09:08 AM.
Wow! 3 main is a lot - but I now see there is so much to needle now that you also get to needle fetches: DRS, Jace, Vial, Mother of Runes, Sneak Attack, Charbelcher -> there is something in almost every deck except Storm.
I play 3 between main and side and I don't play the wish but something close to the 3 Rolling Earthquake list (about the Splendors: we have a lot of SnT players in my LGS):
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Trinisphere
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Blood Moon
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
1x Gemstone Caverns
10x Mountain
4x Fiery Confluence
3x Rolling Earthquake
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Sideboard (15)
2x Abrade
1x Boil
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Null Brooch
1x Null Rod
2x Overwhelming Splendor
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere
Chalice on 1
Info is key for our sorcery speed deck. The spyglasses have been good in the late game as much as upping the turn one threat density. Albeit limited in physical testing, it's easy to trim while sideboarding and in practice so far its got more upside than down. It's a great new addition to our troll action
I just don't like the threat density of the deck right now. It's a completely different animal than Dragon stompy nowadays
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For the Bridge builds, is 4x Walking Ballista worth considering? It kills Thalia and Mom super easy, plus can potentially sit behind a Bridge and grow and ping. Not the greatest clock, but it’s certainly super flexible.
Burning Wish is brilliant. I had just mentioned it to a friend, and now someone has actually played it. Excellent call; it’s Red Stax’ version of Imperial Recruiter.
I’m not convinced regular Moon Stompy is dead. Not at all. I’ve been consistently placing with it at my LGS despite meta hate vs it, and I won a 20-man tourney with it. I do think Recruiter is fairly important to the deck, though. It’s basically your Fiery Confluence x4 - snags Manic Vandal and Sharpshooter out of the SB. Not needed 100%, but it’s a HUGE difference running the guy, esp with 5 equipment.
Moon Stompy also smashes DnT with a slight, probably 60%-40% favor.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I agree that traditional aggro lists aren't dead at all, it's 100% a meta call. I'd caution against going halfway though. The strength of the walker build is a stronger prison angle and essentially blanking creature removal. If you're going to go the aggro route in this meta you need to overload their removal, which means a ton of cheap threats and some number of threats that can't be killed by bolt or push. If I were to try a creature heavy list I'd probably move both the bridges and trinispheres to the side and really go threat heavy.
For the aggro build I would go as Dragon heavy as possible like this japanese list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=24912&iddeck=195463
Territorial Hellkite is a kind of Fiery Confluence (4 mana for 6 burn)
Chalice on 1
I agree, given the post top meta the Japanese have it right by going big over the top. Moggcatcher and friends just don't go wide enough to win a ground war, and the feelgoods from having Kiki and Settler out is a shadow of the feelbads as they normally die to any and all the removals. Dragon Stompy isn't dead, far from it. Thanks to recent printings the shell has morphed into a legit other archetype, Stax. Or Moon Walker. Semantics.
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I agree with this sentiment. Going halfway on both routes means that you do neither well. I think the best way to overload removal is with some tokens, ie Rabblemaster, and possibly Hanweir Garrison (which I don’t really play). Hazoret is amazing at dodging all non-White removal, too.
I don’t like that Japanese list either. Territorial Hellkite is garbo, straight up worse than Thunderbreak Regent (which I also don’t like). There’s a crazy high-end, and they run fewer lands than I do! (I run 29-30 mana sources to this guy’s 27.) I still get wrecked by two Wastes or Rishadan Ports every now and then; I’d be surprised if he ran into DnT ever. That Burning Wish list, tho...
This is my hot garbo list that’s served me well. I’m trying out a completely different deck, so it might be some time until I get back to it:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Zoetic Cavern
9 Mountain
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Manic Vandal
1 flex slot (Hanweir Garrison)
SB:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscouger
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
Some notes - 5 Seems to be the right number of equipment, as 6 I always get flooded with it in my opening hand. I don’t know why. Faeries in the SB can go down to 2-3. Settler has been sub-par. I tried Kiki-Jiki, but it’s uncastable. And Moggcatcher is a consideration, with Kiki, too.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
So any, any hints on silver bullets would be great. And I just remembered one of them which is definitely going in: Viashino Heretic.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
If you're running recruiters to get silver bullets just browse through the painter thread, we've debated them all over the ages. Manic vandal vs heretic. Since you're running so much equipment that can protect a heretic I'd go for that, was always in the heretic camp. Fun card is fun.
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