[Primer/Deck] Pox

[DrJack]

Hi fellow Pox players!

I’m a long time lurker here, but I’d like today take the opportunity to share my thoughts on my current list and write down a little report following my recent success in a local tournament.

I have been toying with Pox since september 2015 after a break of several years without playing Magic. Since then, Pox has been my pet deck and in spite of being able to build most of the legacy decks, I eventually come back to Pox every few months or so.

Since the ban of top, which caused a huge resurgence of delver.decks of all sorts and of some wacky builds of 4 or 5 colours good stuff decks (4c leo, czech pile, 4c stoneblade and so on), I have the impression that Pox is getting better and better positioned in the current metagame.

Over the last months, I kept putting correct / good records in our weekly tournament with regular 3-1 records (though no perfect 4-0 :( ), as well as some decent results in the side events of the last two GPs I attended.
I chose to play the deck during the French legacy championship at the end of March this year. I went 5-3 during the trial the day before, losing a round to lands following a huge misplay while I was in a winning spot (being too greedy playing a helm a turn too early, without being able to activate it… They were able to destroy it during their next turn - should I have waited for another turn, I would have won that game and the round). The main event did not go very well though, as I faced many combo matchups - I went 3-3-1.

Fast forward to last week end. Some friends where organizing a tournament with good prizes to have a bigger event than our usual 12-18 player weekly event.
With Dominaria being out, I tweaked a bit my sideboard to add Damping sphere. I was not able to find Karns at a decent price, so it is not yet included in my list. Below is what I brought to the tournament:

Maindeck:
12 Swamp
1 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Innocent Blood
1 The Abyss
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Nether Void
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Nether Spirit
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Cursed Scroll

Sideboard:
1 Nether Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Damping Sphere

I think this is pretty close to the stock classical lists. Some comments regarding my choices:
- No dark rituals as I believe this card is really overrated in this deck, if not being actually bad. This is a dead draw if that’s not in your opening 7, and even when it is in your starting hand, even if I have to admit doing a turn 1 Lilliana is powerful if it is resolve, being forced or dazed put you so far behind… And a dark ritual into inquisition + tourach is 3 for 3, and that is not what we want to do. I prefer being a little bit slower, but having better draws in the long term. Plus, having your opponent exhausting their resources trying to deal with our early spell is exactly what the deck want to do to allow your mid/late game spells take over the board. That’s not what Dark ritual does.
- No thoughtseize as the 2 pv loss is too dangerous for the deck. I prefer Inquisition, as it will take almost all the cards in the format, and those which are not in its range should anyway never reach the board.
- 4 sinkholes: I really love the land destruction aspect o f the deck, and I believe this is one of its strength in the current metagame. Being able to cut a colour to an opponent playing a greedy manabase or slowing them down enough to land a Nether void that will allow our factories to go uncontested is really sweet and contributes to the strength of the deck.
- 3 toxic deluges maindeck: this is rarely a dead card, and I like being able to sweep a board of young pyro & co or to be able to deal with a TNN although there is also another creature on the eboard.
- The Legends package with The Abyss, Chains and Nether void main deck: they are key cards in the deck’s strategy. In most of the cases, when one of them hits the board, the game is almost over.
Beseech the queen: a good tool in that deck, as it allows you to fetch the best solution to any problem you may face.
- Ratchet bomb: my only maindeck solution for planeswalkers (aside for factories, spirit and scrolls, obviously). It can also deal easily with boards of tokens.
- In the sideboard: bridge + edict are there for decks that aim to stick a giant indestructible 20/20 flying monster or to sneak a 15/15 spaghetti monster on the battlefield. Needle is another tool mainly for planeswalkers (though it can also shut opponent’s fetchlands down). Damping sphere is here for combo (either show&tell.decks or storm variants). The leyline and the cage are here for graveyard decks, and since I play leyline, why not playing helm, heh!


Now the report:
We are 31 players, so there will be 5 rounds + top 8.

Round 1 - 4 colours stoneblade
I have the toss. My opponent starts with a hierarch, then a second one. I wipe them out with a ratchet bomb, while I put it down on lands with sinkholes and wastelands. He struggles a few turn, trying to put some menaces on the board but I manage to deal with them with innocent bloods and toxic deluges quickly. He will never be able to put on the battlefield the equipments he fetched with his stoneforge. I eventually lock him up with a nether void while I have two factories on the battlefield. He scoops.
I side in the two needles for one tourach and one inquisition. The second game is the same, without the land destruction. So he eventually lands a Jace and tries to fateseal me, but my factories are good enough to keep his Jace low. I eventually manage to kill the Jace and keep the board under control long enough to kill him with the same factories.
Record:1-0-0 - 2 victories, 0 defeats

Round 2 - 4 colours Leovold
He has the toss. I do not have detailed notes on that game, but it seems that I only take two damages from a snapcaster swing. I remember casting a chains that got decayed immediately, and pinging him with a cursed scroll while keeping him out of resources with a Liliana of the veil long enough to kill him.
I side in two needles vs 2 Inquisition. I start the game with an inquisition (the third and last one remaining in the deck) removing a sylvan library. I sinkhole him once, then wasteland and smallpox him. I land a Nethervoid, then I struggle on lands while he keeps drawing them. I manage to kill his creatures with innocent’s bloods, but he lands a Jace that fateseal me to death as I fail to draw an out.
I switch the two inquisitions I sided out with two hymns, and I remove an additional hymn for the second nether void. I open again with an Inquisition, taking a ponder. I see double strix, verdant catacombs, badlands and polluted delta. He opens with the delta. Next turn I draw needle, and put it on verdant catacombs. I then go on a mana denial heavy plan, wasting / smallpoxing him several times, even fetching a wasteland with a beseech the queen. I close the game with a nether void with both a factory and a cursed scroll.
Record: 2-0-0 - 4 victories, 1 defeat

Round 3 - Grixis delver
I face the best player in the room for this 3rd round, and I know he is either playing 4colours control or grixis delver.
He wins the toss. He goes with a DRS, then a second one while I try to sinkhole his first land (which get dazed). I crack a toxic deluge to remove his shamanes, and the next turn he lands a young pyromancer. I draw the beseech the queen that would have allowed me to find a second toxic deluge one turn to late. I die swarmed by the elemental tokens.
The second game is quite similar, except that he kills me with his two TNN that he manages to protect by sacking shamans on my innocent’s blood and smallpox.
Record: 2-1-1 - 4 victories, 3 defeats

Round 4 - Mono red stompy
He wins the toss, and start with chrome mox, sol land into chalice @1 while my hand is inquisition and double innocent’s blood… On his second turn, he goes for a magus of the moon, then a rabblemaster the turn after. That’s too much to handle for me, I die quickly under the assault of the goblins.
I side out my sinkholes, the chains, and some discard. I bring in the leyline/helm package, the two bridges, the needles and the second nether void. He goes turn one with a sorcerous spyglass, naming liliana the last hope and does nothing really impacting for a turn or two. I land an early nether void with two factories and a maze. I manage to get him stuck on five lands, so he cannot do anything relevant. I land a Liliana of the veil that will strip his hand, and I take him down to 4 before he lands an ensnaring bridge, preventing me to attack. The game stalls a bit until I draw a leyline then a helm. I drop the leyline, but wait to draw an additional land before playing the helm, to be able to activate it. I can do this just in time as my opponent eventually played an hazoret…
The third game is pretty similar to the second one.I put him low in mana cracking a bomb to remove a mox and I stick a nether void. He will manage to get a rabblemaster, but I can block the tokens with two factories. I cannot attack due to an ensnaring bridge. He lands a chandra, the next turn i draw needle and shut it down. I eventually whipe his board with a toxic deluge. The game stalls a bit until he lands a Hazoret, which get sacrificed to innocent’s blood immediately. I eventually find a liliana of the veil and a cursed scroll which close the game quickly.
Record: 3-1-0 - 6 victories, 4 defeats

Round 5 - Omnishow
The 4 players who were at 3-0 after round three agreed to ID round 4 and 5, securing their spot in the top 8. After round 4, we were 6 at 3-1. The players ranked 5 and 6 had very good tie-breakers and IDed as they were paired to play together. Meaning I had to play that game if I wanted to top8. I got paired against the person I did not wanted to play against, since show and tell decks are not a very good match up…
I had to cross my fingers and pray for my luck. I won the toss, which is a good start. I inquisition him on turn 1 and remove a show and tell. I then cast another spell, which gets forced, pitching a cunning wish. This will slow him down long enough for me to resolve a the abyss. With this on the table, his only out is a kill with enter the infinite and release the ants. He eventually resolves a first show and tell, dropping an emrakul. I pass the turn and it gets destroyed by the Abyss. He resolves another show and tell later, puting an omniscience into play. He plays a first emrakul, that gets destroyed at its upkeep during his extra turn. He plays another emrakul, a cantrip, then intuition fetching two enter the infinite and a cunning wish. I give him the cunning wish. At this point, I think I have lost the game, but I do not scoop since I want to see the actual release the ants kill. He gets a firemind’s foresight with the wish, and fetches another wish, an impulse and a brainstorm. He impulse, brainstorms, the wishes to get a noxious revival that gets back one of the enter the infinite from his graveyard. At that point, he starts thinking for a few moments, then scoops. Lucky for me, release the ants happens to be in his sideboard only, and he also happen to only play 3 wishes: two have already been casted, and the third one was exiled thanks to him pitching it to force of will… He had no way to get its release the ants, and the Abyss prevented him to kill me with Emrakul. He scooped!
For the second game of the round, I sided out the deluges and innocent’s bloods and some land destruction for the damping spheres, the leyline/helm package and the bridges. He mulls to five, while I keep a seven with two hymns and a damping sphere, as well as a smallpox and three black mana sources. He starts and passes immediately: no land drop! I play swamp and passes, he draws andnpasses again! On my turn I tourach him, and gets a wish and a sol land he did not play to protect it from wasteland. I play a sphere on my next turn, then chains hymn and smallpox to destroy the land he just played. On the next three turns, I see my two others hymns - perfect to put him way behind while I set up a leyline/helm kill. The sphere prevent him to combo out just the turn before I activate the helm for the win.
Record: 4-1-0, 8 victories, 4 defeats.

With this record, I am 1st of the standings, which gets me the toss for the top 8!

Quarterfinals:
Unfortunately, the player ranked 8th is playing dredge, which is basically immune to two of our game plans (discard and mana denial). It is tough to win when half of your deck is not more efficient than empty sleeves… As expected, I quickly lose the first game, swarmed by zombie tokens and ichorids. I side out my discard spells and add all my graveyard hate. I open a 7 with leyline, but he topdecks the serenity he needed on turn to to destroy the leyline. He dredges half of his deck in the next two turns and I cannot find the toxic deluge that would have bought me enough time to stabilize the game. I quickly lose the game.
Record: 4-2-0, 8 victories, 6 defeats.

I end up at the 5th place, and go back home with a nice force of will.

The deck felt good, with the abyss and nether void being the mvp of the deck, sealing away my opponents’ fate after having pressured their ressources down enough to prevent any comeback. Damping sphere is also nuts versus combo. I think it will stick in my sideboard for a long time…
However, it has some very tough choices (when perefering playing hymn over sinkhole, or vice versa? Waiting one more turn to cast a toxic deluge in order to catch another creature? Playing smallpox in a timely manner so it does not mana-screw you… etc) and mistakes are not forgiving.

I really like my list as it is right now, and I really have trouble to figure out what I can remove to make room for two Karn, scion of Urza… Any suggestion is welcome :)

Thanks for reading if you went through all this wall of text!

[Hardcore]

Thanks for the report! Today I watched a pox player completely lock an opponent out with Nether Void and Liliana. There is no way you can draw enough lands to race liliana ulti.

[kramer733]

How screwed are you if you don't have nether void and if you don't have tabernacle and if you don't have chains of Mephistopheles? Can you still build pox? How bad would your deck be?

[DrJack]

How screwed are you if you don't have nether void and if you don't have tabernacle and if you don't have chains of Mephistopheles? Can you still build pox? How bad would your deck be?

In my opinion, each of these cards adds some win percentage. You can still build the deck without them, but it will be less efficient. I think the most necessary card is nether void, and the less necessary is tabernacle (if you play enough creature removals, though).

You can still use alternative cheaper replacement for these cards, such as trinisphere for nether void and underworld dreams for chains. You’ll still have fun playing the deck :)

[aslidsiksoraksi]

Whoa Dr. Jack, awesome report! Thanks for putting this up here, i always love reading these :)

I see you're running full 4 sinkhole, how do you like them? and 3 deluge is a good number, given how fair the meta is these days. If you're wanting cuts for Karn I'd cut Nether Spirit and maybe a Sinkhole or maybe Crucible. Karn provides a repeatable-ish blocker as well, and is a grindy advantage engine like Crucible.

I agree that Pox is well positioned in a fair metagame. I've been consistently getting 3-1s and such in my weeklies as well, but the 4-0 eluded me... until tonight!! I managed to go 4-0 matches, 8-0 games, beating DnT, Maverick, Grixis Delver, and Elves. All these creature decks are such juicy targets for us, I felt favored in every game (except maybe elves).

I also cut a Crucible for a single Karn. The hype is real. He is a monster and will steal the game. Gonna find room for #2. And I continue to love Necropolis Fiend as just an all around menace and destroyer of creature decks. @MrJack lists are quite different I think, but overall I think the general Pox ethos is in a good spot against creature based decks that don't have card advantage engines (no snapcasters, no predicts...). Just play all the repeatable removal and wait until they run out of action.

My list, for what it's worth:

MD			SB
4 Lilliana of the Veil	4 Smallpox	4 Mishra's Factory	4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope	4 Inquisition of Kozilek	4 Wasteland	2 Bitterblossom
1 Karn, Scion of Urza	3 Innocent Blood	3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth	2 Pithing Needle
	2 Hymn to Tourach	1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale	2 Lost Legacy
2 Necropolis Fiend	2 Toxic Deluge	1 Cabal Pit	1 Collective Brutality
	1 Beseech the Queen	1 Bojuka Bog	2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Cursed Scroll		1 Spawning Pool	1 Extirpate
1 Ensnaring Bridge	1 Night of Souls' Betrayal	1 Maze of Ith	1 Necropolis Fiend
	1 Nether Void	10 Swamp
3 Dark Ritual	1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Fatal Push

Highlights were spectators on multiple occasions just looking at the board state I set up and crying on their opponent's behalf. And one guy saying 'that looks like a sweet deck to pilot.' why yes, yes it is. Oh and Spawning Pool swinging over to steal the monarchy from a DnT player

How screwed are you if you don't have nether void and if you don't have tabernacle and if you don't have chains of Mephistopheles? Can you still build pox? How bad would your deck be?

You'll be fine. Those cards are good and will win some matches, but honestly the deck is fine without them. the real money card you need is 3-4x Liliana of the Veil. Aside from that most of the deck is fairly cheap as I can recall. Night of Souls' Betrayal does a good Abyss impersonation (and in many cases is actually better, especially against young pyromancer), and Nether Void... well it's really spicy and seals games but it is not more than a 1-2x. It sucks to draw it when you're behind, and Trinisphere can do a similar (though not as good) job. Chains is probably most irreplaceable effect but still not always wanted or necessary. If I were to edit my list, I'd just cut Chains, Void, and Tabernacle for really any 3 cards I thought were good (maybe Hymn #3, Deluge #3, and Karn #2). It'd probably be fine.

[ParisFlorian]

No dark rituals as I believe this card is really overrated in this deck, if not being actually bad

So true...
No Dark Ritual for me as well.
Mox Diamond is much better to me, especially with Crucible. It really helps casting a T1 Hymn / Smallpox / Sinkhole, AND Lili / Abyss / Void / etc one turn sooner.

In my meta there are a lot of Chalice decks, so I tried to limit my CMC 1 spells (eg Innocent blood replaced by 2 Bridges)

Here is my current list :


Lands (26)
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Mishra's Factory
12 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Spells (33)
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Collective Brutality
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Cursed Scroll
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grim Tutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
1 Nether Void
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 The Abyss
1 Trinisphere

Creatures (1)
1 Nether Spirit

Side (15)
3 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Word of Command

[Mr. Safety]

Mox Diamond is no better in pox than Dark Ritual, both are terrible top-decks in the late game. The difference is how much more explosive Ritual can be. T1 Liliana, or even just t1 Hymn + Thoughtsieze. The mana acceleration isn't for stability or ramping...it's to make busted early plays to out-tempo your opponent. What Diamond does is force you to play at least 26 lands, and sometimes you will be discarding utility lands in order to get black mana. If you don't draw your *one* crucible of worlds then you are seriously hampering your utility land plan. Alternatively, Dark Ritual just costs you a card. Mox Diamond in Pox isn't doing anything busted, not like in Lands or Aggro Loam. If you want to explore a Beseech the Queen package, Dark Ritual gets better (looks like Grim Tutor is your toolbox card.) Imagine having a Grim Tutor in your hand in the mid-game and you top deck a Dark Ritual. You now have access to a tutor for functionally one mana, leaving your other lands open to play the card you tutored. Alternatively you top-deck a Mox Diamond, with no lands in hand. Whiff.

Yes, Dark Ritual can be very bad if you are banking on it t1 and your Chalice opponent is on the play with a t1 Chalice@1. With such an emphasis on Liliana and Smallpox, this shouldn't be a problem discarding a useless Ritual once it becomes obsolete. Honestly, the prevalence of Stompy-type decks in the current legacy metagame is why I advocate Ratchet Bomb main (amongst other reasons.)

And don't get me started on how bad Cursed Scroll is alongside Nether Void...

[OmniStrata]

My take on Clayton Levi's Bloodghast beatdown Pox:

Land (25)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
7 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Creatures (6)
4 Bloodghast
1 Netherspirit
1 Tombstalker

Enchantment (1)
1 Nether Void

Planeswalker (5)
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope

Instant (2)
2 Dark Ritual

Sorcery (21)
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning

Sideboard
2 Engineered Plague
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning

Took out the cursed scroll and Chains and ran Nether Void instead of Chains. The 2x Dark Ritual Rocks hard. I always game on the draw thanks to Tom Ross's explanation. It's also better for Therapies.

For the one who asked about Tabernacle and the money cards: aslidsiksoraksi was right. I used to run Trisphere back when I was broke. It works. Instead of Tabernacle, Just get yourself Night of Souls' Betrayal and extirpate the board. You can't Bghast or Bitterblossom if you do however. How do I strike through my own Bridge without Scroll? I don't. I let my Last Hope build up lethal and draw my 2nd card in hand. Ah such a gorgeous death goddess!!

[Hardcore]

Being on the draw... I have been considering this tactic. I *think * this require cards like Thoughtseize in the deck. The value of rituals is also debatable if you always go second. What is nice is how much mulligans punish the opponent in this scenario. Otoh, delver deck will say thank you.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

This is the first I've heard of the choose-to-be-on-the draw tactic anywhere outside manaless dredge.... what is Tom Ross' explanation?

I can see it making some sense given that we are a card advantage deck in some ways. But I wouldn't do this in all matchups, probably just against control decks, as it hurts too much not to have the chance at first-turn disruption before they do anything, and to always be playing catch-up with mana

@ParisFlorian - i'm not a huge fan of Mox Diamond either... seems like card disadvantage as well and also a dead draw. we want the extra lands in hand to discard to liliana too. i can see the value of being repeatable acceleration, but the drawbacks seem too much

[Mr. Safety]

Huh, I thought this was generally a known tactic of being on the draw. It's much more powerful in Modern where the main plan is Raven's Crime/The Rack. Mulligans are punished mercilessly in that format with that deck. In Legacy it's harder to pinpoint; but in general it's better to be a card up and take back the tempo boost with Smallpox/Hymn to Tourach. This is another reason why Dark Ritual is so good, even though it 'costs' you a card.

This is my basic take:

G1, win the die roll, in the dark, I take the DRAW
G2, against fair decks, win or lose, I take the DRAW
G3, against combo decks like Storm, Sneak/Show, Elves, I take the PLAY

Against any iteration of dredge at any point, I take the DRAW. I pray to Liliana to avoid this matchup, or I board 4x Leyline of the Void (which doesn't care if you're on the play or the draw.)

Against anything Loam-based, I take the PLAY whenever given the chance. The sooner you can get your extraction/grave hate on the better. The longer the deck goes, the worse Pox is favored. Leyline does work here too, but it isn't as explosive as Dredge, so Nihil Spellbomb/Relic of Progenitus/Surgical Extraction can all work fine. Better to be faster on the board.

That's my take. I figured most of the veteran Pox players did this kind of approach, but I also learned this from Tom Ross (playing 8Rack in modern.)

[Mr. Safety]

Being on the draw... I have been considering this tactic. I *think * this require cards like Thoughtseize in the deck. The value of rituals is also debatable if you always go second. What is nice is how much mulligans punish the opponent in this scenario. Otoh, delver deck will say thank you.

Delver decks are literally one of the best matchups for Pox, at least in my experience. The high number of sacrifice effects deal with their small squad of threats, even TNN. Young Pyromancer is their best card against you, so target that guy with discard or get those Ratchet Bombs into the main if you expect a lot of Grixis Delver (and you should...the deck is everywhere!)

[Hardcore]

Delver decks are literally one of the best matchups for Pox, at least in my experience. The high number of sacrifice effects deal with their small squad of threats, even TNN. Young Pyromancer is their best card against you, so target that guy with discard or get those Ratchet Bombs into the main if you expect a lot of Grixis Delver (and you should...the deck is everywhere!)

Yeah, but if they run counters they gain too much tempo to handle if on the draw. Need that extra land drop to play around daze.

[kombatkiwi]

- Modern Pox is an attrition deck (and so is legacy to a significant extent)
- In an attrition deck card advantage is very important
- Having an extra card for going second is one way to get card advantage

There are reasons to not do this in legacy

- Fair Legacy decks are often way more tempo-oriented than modern (if you go 2nd then you can get punished by turn 1 Delver into Daze into Wasteland etc which is something that just doesn't exist in modern). However against most of these decks you have enough efficient disruption that the extra card is usually still more important.
- You're a non-FoW deck so in some legacy matchups you can just die on turn 1 without playing anything if you go 2nd, which obviously doesn't happen in modern either
- Many legacy pox builds are more like pseudo-Prison decks where card advantage is not as important, with cards like Nether Void, The Abyss, Ensnaring Bridge etc that end the game regardless of if you're down cards. Legacy versions typically don't play Rack/Affliction as win conditions so cards-in-hand is less important for that reason as well

However I still think that the Mr Safety explanation of first/second is basically correct

In general I think that playing expensive lockpieces and planeswalkers is incorrect in legacy (or in Pox in general):

If we accept that the main reason to play Pox is Smallpox x4, because of its unique power to eliminate a large amount of resources for an efficient manacost, then playing 4 and 5 drops in the deck seems like a poor decision, because those cards require too many resources to deploy. Dark Ritual can be added to help cast these more expensive cards, but Dark Ritual doesn't make sense in a Smallpox deck focused around eliminating both players' resources, because the card doesn't help to trade any resource with the opponent and is an awful card in the situation that Smallpox is aiming to achieve (both players topdecking).

Also, consider these two statements
1) Dark Ritual is good in Pox
2) It's good in most matchups for Pox to go second

If you agree with both of these (Omnistrata) how do you reconcile the two completely opposing ideas? On one hand you're saying it's worth sacrificing card advantage for a big tempo spike but on the other hand you're saying that it's worth sacrificing a turn of mana development for 1 extra card? I think the solution is just that Dark Ritual is actually not good.

The only thing I am slightly mystified about is
1) Adachi Ryosuke continues to have the most success playing a deck with expensive lockpieces and rituals. It's possible he just plays a ton and even though he does get a few reported top 8s his win rate isn't actually very high, or maybe I'm just wrong about everything, who knows
2) Even in 'leaner' legacy builds without Rituals or 4-Drops I see a lot of people excited about Bloodghast as the win condition rather than The Rack or Shrieking Affliction. Maybe Bloodghast is actually good and the correct mindset for legacy Pox is more like the BW Smallpox modern deck rather than 8-rack. (Without the emphasis on Raven's Crime the 8-rack plan might actually be much worse, the question then becomes is it worth going in that direction in Legacy or not). I'm not sure that legacy mono B can successfully emulate the BW strategy because having Lingering Souls + PWs that make tokens + Flagstones seems like an important part of that deck, but maybe Karn does a reasonable Gideon impression.

Also just a PSA with the new rules change The Rack can't damage planeswalkers anymore, so that's another reason to not go with that strategy I suppose

[Mr. Safety]

- Modern Pox is an attrition deck (and so is legacy to a significant extent)
- In an attrition deck card advantage is very important
- Having an extra card for going second is one way to get card advantage

There are reasons to not do this in legacy

- Fair Legacy decks are often way more tempo-oriented than modern (if you go 2nd then you can get punished by turn 1 Delver into Daze into Wasteland etc which is something that just doesn't exist in modern). However against most of these decks you have enough efficient disruption that the extra card is usually still more important.
- You're a non-FoW deck so in some legacy matchups you can just die on turn 1 without playing anything if you go 2nd, which obviously doesn't happen in modern either
- Many legacy pox builds are more like pseudo-Prison decks where card advantage is not as important, with cards like Nether Void, The Abyss, Ensnaring Bridge etc that end the game regardless of if you're down cards. Legacy versions typically don't play Rack/Affliction as win conditions so cards-in-hand is less important for that reason as well

However I still think that the Mr Safety explanation of first/second is basically correct

In general I think that playing expensive lockpieces and planeswalkers is incorrect in legacy (or in Pox in general):

If we accept that the main reason to play Pox is Smallpox x4, because of its unique power to eliminate a large amount of resources for an efficient manacost, then playing 4 and 5 drops in the deck seems like a poor decision, because those cards require too many resources to deploy. Dark Ritual can be added to help cast these more expensive cards, but Dark Ritual doesn't make sense in a Smallpox deck focused around eliminating both players' resources, because the card doesn't help to trade any resource with the opponent and is an awful card in the situation that Smallpox is aiming to achieve (both players topdecking).

Also, consider these two statements
1) Dark Ritual is good in Pox
2) It's good in most matchups for Pox to go second

If you agree with both of these (Omnistrata) how do you reconcile the two completely opposing ideas? On one hand you're saying it's worth sacrificing card advantage for a big tempo spike but on the other hand you're saying that it's worth sacrificing a turn of mana development for 1 extra card? I think the solution is just that Dark Ritual is actually not good.

The only thing I am slightly mystified about is
1) Adachi Ryosuke continues to have the most success playing a deck with expensive lockpieces and rituals. It's possible he just plays a ton and even though he does get a few reported top 8s his win rate isn't actually very high, or maybe I'm just wrong about everything, who knows
2) Even in 'leaner' legacy builds without Rituals or 4-Drops I see a lot of people excited about Bloodghast as the win condition rather than The Rack or Shrieking Affliction. Maybe Bloodghast is actually good and the correct mindset for legacy Pox is more like the BW Smallpox modern deck rather than 8-rack. (Without the emphasis on Raven's Crime the 8-rack plan might actually be much worse, the question then becomes is it worth going in that direction in Legacy or not). I'm not sure that legacy mono B can successfully emulate the BW strategy because having Lingering Souls + PWs that make tokens + Flagstones seems like an important part of that deck, but maybe Karn does a reasonable Gideon impression.

Also just a PSA with the new rules change The Rack can't damage planeswalkers anymore, so that's another reason to not go with that strategy I suppose

I think you summarized it very well. I agree with almost all of it, the only point I would question is the seeming paradox of Dark Ritual/Smallpox. The basic concept of Pox is to break the symmetry of Smallpox and Dark Ritual does that in (arguably) the most efficient way. Pox also plays 25-27 lands, which is way more than any other deck, except for Lands and Turbo Depths. Pox banks on drawing more lands than opponents, but also needs to have a fast start because, as you say, Legacy is so much more tempo oriented, even in it's mid-range decks. Ritual is somewhat of a 'necessary evil', at least that's how I view it. I would much rather jam more discard/removal, and maybe that's correct, but I also don't play the expensive lock pieces. If you look at the Pox mana base, it's actually pretty shaky if you don't play Dark Rituals. It plays a ton of colorless lands, at least 8 in most decks, and tries to make up the difference with Dark Ritual because honestly, you need the BBB to do your thing sometimes, and be able to do it with 1 black mana source (Swamp or Urborg.) Urborg being legendary doesn't help.

Which brings me to my next point, which I think we should discuss, and that's the possibility that the higher CMC lock pieces are actually what's wrong with Pox in general. Most of them are singletons, if players can afford to own them at all. The power level is high enough that it's a one-card synergy (Nether Void, Abyss) but consistency is super low. This is where the Bloodghast plan comes in because it actually makes the deck play more threats (4x Factory, 4x Bloodghst, Xx Tombstalker/Nether Spirit/Liliana of the Last Hope) and those threats are consistently undercosted, free to play in most instances besides Tomb/LotLH. So we have cheap/efficient disruption and threats, trying to take advantage of the time gained by denying resources. Sounds like a tempo deck to me. I think that's why Pox's cards should be uber-efficient. The highest cost cards I ever play in Pox are Crucible of Worlds, Liliana of the Veil, and Ensnaring Bridge. My ideal threats are Factory, Bloodghast, and Bitterblossom. Break the symmetry of Smallpox (Crucible, Bloodghast, Bitterblossom avoids it) and use the time gained to finish the game. At this point, with efficiency in mind, where does Dark Ritual fit in? I think the Mox Diamond similarity, as mentioned above, is actually accurate, I just think Dark Ritual does a better job. Explosive starts are important in a tempo-oriented format.

[Hardcore]

Actually, Mr. Safety, you are probably on the subject of what variant of Pox to play, rather than what is the best way to design the control version.
It is like the cantrip decks can be either Delver or control or combo. Same with Pox.
Running expensive cards works, but may not be very great, for control. That type of play can stall with cheap removal until they have the mana for the lock pieces.
Myself I play the rack version with pox, and that strategy doesn't work that well (8 Pox effects).
Back to control. If there is something I find questionable in control Pox it is the cards that cost B. If you want to clear the way for nether void by pulling force of will then that is fine, but if you want to win the grind game then all the Inquisitions and Thoughtseizes are just timewalks. In a sense they are another form of ritual. You get time for another land drop.

[OmniStrata]

This is the first I've heard of the choose-to-be-on-the draw tactic anywhere outside manaless dredge.... what is Tom Ross' explanation?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...itational.html

He explains further down. Going 1 card deeper is the difference. I too, find smallpox more effective when your foe develops his board first. My meta isn't T1 combo so it's safe for me. Though if you're fighting "too much combo" in you're meta, I highly suggest Unmask as your solution and gunning 4 Dark Rituals as acceleration is safer despite the Card Disadvantage.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

Actually, Mr. Safety, you are probably on the subject of what variant of Pox to play, rather than what is the best way to design the control version.
It is like the cantrip decks can be either Delver or control or combo. Same with Pox.
Running expensive cards works, but may not be very great, for control. That type of play can stall with cheap removal until they have the mana for the lock pieces.
Myself I play the rack version with pox, and that strategy doesn't work that well (8 Pox effects).
Back to control. If there is something I find questionable in control Pox it is the cards that cost B. If you want to clear the way for nether void by pulling force of will then that is fine, but if you want to win the grind game then all the Inquisitions and Thoughtseizes are just timewalks. In a sense they are another form of ritual. You get time for another land drop.

I think you're right - what Mr. Safety is getting at seems to be that Pox should be more of a tempo deck, with cheap threats (ghast/BB) and smallpox/hand disruption to keep the opponent on the back foot. I definitely think it's important to be sure what kind of strategy you're leaning toward in your builds, because mixing them up will be strange. But I'm not convinced that more high-curve control versions of Pox are unworkable, and in fact I think they're slightly better since they feel like they have a stronger game against other tempo/creature decks like Maverick, etc (this is pure theory - I say that having never played a ghast version, so take it with a grain of salt). We drag the game out to the long haul and then various soft lock pieces take over and we mop up. I will say however that I think stuff like Nether Void is overvalued - the real lock pieces are Liliana and Cursed Scroll, which blank all their threats (and are relatively cheap). Nether Void is great but usually it seals their fate more than wins the game.

On lack of synergy between Ritual/Smallpox/big spells - now that I've gone up to 26 lands I find that I almost never miss land drops. Smallpox will put you back a turn but you can recover much more easily than your opponent. And you will more likely get to the 3-4 mana you need for big spells while they stall at 2 or so. So yes it stalls you but you break the symmetry both in the short term (no creature, so they're down a card) and in the long term (hit your land drops and get to the big spells while they stall). Ritual also enables you to drop the big spells. The tempo spike is very useful against tempo/combo decks, and I'd be hesitant to go ritual-less.

@Hardcore - can you explain more about your thinking with the 1cmc spells? I'm not sure I understand what you meant.

[Hardcore]

I suppose I mean that comparing the typical list with something like Bug or miracle I find the typical Smallpox list is short of quality spells. Mainly because of all the rituals and B discard. (The IB and FP are not much better.)
Unlike blue counters these cards don't give you tempo in a meaningful way. It is not a Delver with daze back-up. What they give is time or mana, which are sort of interchangeable. This is only useful in turn one and two. After that they become increasingly dead draws.
Put another way; it may be that the direction of evolution is away from B spells.

[Mr. Safety]

Actually, Mr. Safety, you are probably on the subject of what variant of Pox to play, rather than what is the best way to design the control version.
It is like the cantrip decks can be either Delver or control or combo. Same with Pox.
Running expensive cards works, but may not be very great, for control. That type of play can stall with cheap removal until they have the mana for the lock pieces.
Myself I play the rack version with pox, and that strategy doesn't work that well (8 Pox effects).
Back to control. If there is something I find questionable in control Pox it is the cards that cost B. If you want to clear the way for nether void by pulling force of will then that is fine, but if you want to win the grind game then all the Inquisitions and Thoughtseizes are just timewalks. In a sense they are another form of ritual. You get time for another land drop.

Fair statement, but I would suggest that there *does exist* a correct version of Pox to play in this current metagame. I'm intrigued with going back into pox but I'm down to only 2x Lili of the Veil because of trades, which isn't ideal. I really like the Beseech the Queen toolbox and also the Buried Alive/4x Bloodghast plan. For now I have to explore Nic Fit, which is another fringe archetype that lets me play fun cards. I'm also curious about a Smallpox-less Pox build, which seems foolish but the one card that polarized the deck the most, other than big Pox, is Smallpox. Take away the self-sacrifice of a creature and you have much better threat options. Is mono-black Smallpox-less control an option? I just don't know.

EDIT: This list looks really fun. I would make some small changes, but overall the Beseech Package seems hot. I would drop Nether Void/Abyss/Chains/Cursed Scroll/Nether Spirit and squeeze in Buried Alive x2/Bloodghast x4. I have a hard time believing Cursed Scroll is good with Nether Void, unless you have an active Liliana of the Veil. That just adds another layer to the 'combo'. After a turn or two you'll have enough cards in hand to make Scroll whiff, which would give me the feel-bads.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19074&d=320211&f=LE