[Primer/Deck] Pox

[OmniStrata]

Actually, Orzhov Pox does exist following the loam splash mentioned. Fracture & Vindicate are scary to be receiving. Problem is the budget, going dual lands on top of everything else is not an option for some. I'll point to someone we know who could speak better on the topic...

https://strategy.channelfireball.com...rn-horizons-2/

MTGO makes things a little easier to acquire. Time to give it a whirl.

For the Legacy upgrade, Hymns, Sinks, but no dark rituals. Crucible sounds like an idea too.

[BlogBoy]

Actually, Orzhov Pox does exist following the loam splash mentioned. Fracture & Vindicate are scary to be receiving. Problem is the budget, going dual lands on top of everything else is not an option for some. I'll point to someone we know who could speak better on the topic...

https://strategy.channelfireball.com...rn-horizons-2/

MTGO makes things a little easier to acquire. Time to give it a whirl.

For the Legacy upgrade, Hymns, Sinks, but no dark rituals. Crucible sounds like an idea too.

The expensive part is not just limited dual lands, but also Mox Diamonds being favored over rituals as a mana accelerant. While it does work in Modern to some degree, I haven't seen anyone pull off BGW Pox off well, but give it a whirl if you are curious.

[OmniStrata]

The expensive part is not just limited dual lands, but also Mox Diamonds being favored over rituals as a mana accelerant. While it does work in Modern to some degree, I haven't seen anyone pull off BGW Pox off well, but give it a whirl if you are curious.

Yes. The loss of Dark Ritual is quite backbreaking and unfortunately, as you said, I can't afford the diamonds. How ironic that the Legends cards which cost mortgage payments irl are dirt online yet the Mox Diamonds, Urza;s Saga & Karn cost more in data than in paper. That and all my matches saw me wastelanded into submission. Lands, D&T & Delver are the most popular decks. Cutting off all my mana wasn't hard for them. Sticking to mono-B comes with a very relevant pro: heavy resistance to mana screw. Granted, we lose on color hate towards artifacts but that's what Powder Keg and Null Rod are for. Maybe a Feed the Swarm equivalent for artifacts could be printed? Time will tell.

Xenic Poltergeist anyone?

[Reeplcheep]

This slow-depths-ish list did extremely well in the mtg paper legacy invitational.

[PirateKing]

This slow-depths-ish list did extremely well in the mtg paper legacy invitational.

I would be interested to know how many games the 20/20 won for him. No way to find the A or the B, seems like it would be a really scary threat your opponent would be occupied with handling, meanwhile the rest of the deck is slowly chipping in. 14 discard spells counting Tourach himself, he's liable to be a big boy by end of game.

[Reeplcheep]

I would be interested to know how many games the 20/20 won for him. No way to find the A or the B, seems like it would be a really scary threat your opponent would be occupied with handling, meanwhile the rest of the deck is slowly chipping in. 14 discard spells counting Tourach himself, he's liable to be a big boy by end of game.

In the finals game I watched discard into 20/20 would have won the game if he was not super tired. I think it was 5 am in Dubai or wherever he was and so he didn’t cash in immediately. On the ops turn they played a known wasteland which lost him the game.

Discard is so bad at grinding right now I like the ability to immediately present a fast win-con. Lilianas and Bobs don’t beat uro or thought monitor as grindy topdecks anymore. But the grind doesn’t matter if you are killing them right now. Doomsday and Death Shadow are the best thoughtseize decks right now for that reason.

[OmniStrata]

In the finals game I watched discard into 20/20 would have won the game if he was not super tired. I think it was 5 am in Dubai or wherever he was and so he didn’t cash in immediately. On the ops turn they played a known wasteland which lost him the game.

Discard is so bad at grinding right now I like the ability to immediately present a fast win-con. Lilianas and Bobs don’t beat uro or thought monitor as grindy topdecks anymore. But the grind doesn’t matter if you are killing them right now. Doomsday and Death Shadow are the best thoughtseize decks right now for that reason.

Ultimately, I vehemently disagree with the DD approach. That begs the question, why not play Turbo Depths instead of an inferior version? Same reason I don't play Hogaak Pox. Pox archetypes flop for me when I stop pure disruption paths. Some would probably do better with the transformational sideboard of 4 Leyline of the Void and X helm of Obedience. I've tested those variants before but in gunning for setting up the combo, I leave my opponent alone to play their game instead of mine.

[Reeplcheep]

Ultimately, I vehemently disagree with the DD approach. That begs the question, why not play Turbo Depths instead of an inferior version? Same reason I don't play Hogaak Pox. Pox archetypes flop for me when I stop pure disruption paths. Some would probably do better with the transformational sideboard of 4 Leyline of the Void and X helm of Obedience. I've tested those variants before but in gunning for setting up the combo, I leave my opponent alone to play their game instead of mine.

I am not going to say I am a great pox player. But I found the pure control variants to feel terrible since they didn’t actually win the topdeck war that they are designed to get the game into. Nothing traditional Liliana pox has is a better topdeck than ragavan, murktide, uro or even a vial + a recruiter. At least with a combo that requires a specific answer you can thoughtseize their answer and then kill them before they find another one.

The only version that could out topdeck the blue piles was loam saga versions, since either saga or loam would put you massively ahead from parity.

[FTW]

This slow-depths-ish list did extremely well in the mtg paper legacy invitational.

From my understanding that isn't a Pox deck, that's monoblack aggro (Bob, Thoughtseize, Voidwalker, 0 Smallpox, 0 manlands/Saga) with Depths combo thrown in. It looks closer to what we were brewing in the Rogues thread. That sort of deck isn't trying to play grindy attrition even though it has a lot of overlap cards.

[Reeplcheep]

From my understanding that isn't a Pox deck, that's monoblack aggro (Bob, Thoughtseize, Voidwalker, 0 Smallpox, 0 manlands/Saga) with Depths combo thrown in. It looks closer to what we were brewing in the Rogues thread. That sort of deck isn't trying to play grindy attrition even though it has a lot of overlap cards.

Yah I believe it was self described as monoBlack dead guy ale, which is probably more appropriate.

[OmniStrata]

Wrong Deck for the wrong thread? Pox's biggest hindrance is attacking all but one resource: Graveyards. Testing an Ashiok+Liliana Brew that hides behind Ensnaring Bridge. It seems to do well in metas that are degenerate on tutors and GY recursion. Swapping in the Null Rod when Sinkhole is not enough post board is key.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4337260#online

[FTW]

I've always been a fan of Chains in Pox...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vfDHKGLTeA


//Lands: 21
4 Urza's Saga
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter

//Artifacts: 12
4 Mox Diamond
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 The Rack
4 Anvil of Bogardan

//Enchantments: 4
4 Chains of Mephistopheles

//Planeswalkers: 4
4 Liliana of the Veil

//Spells: 14
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fatal Push
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Baleful Mastery

//Creatures: 1
1 Tourach, Dread Cantor

//Sideboard: 15
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sudden Edict
3 Plague Engineer
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Tourach, Dread Cantor
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Damping Sphere


This looks a little rough but maybe there is something playable here.

Retrofitter Foundry seems important in a deck lacking actual wincons (G1 scoops to Needle on Saga?). Foundry also insulates Constructs/Tourach from the Smallpox sacrifice.

Raven's Crime works well with the Loam Pox engine + Chains lock, especially if you rely on opponent being hellbent.

[PirateKing]

I watched this, Anvil seemed too cute. Chains would be good if he didn't face 4 non-blue decks. Not understanding the interaction and playing both with an empty hand was definitely the highlight.

[FTW]

Without the Anvil combo, Chains is textless vs too many decks. What if it used Dark Deal to make both players immediately Hellbent (then just played out of the GY via Loam replacement effect), or Waste Not to gain value from each iteration? Probably too cute.

Edit: Chains Stompy aka "I have too many Legends cards".dec


//Lands: 24
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Nurturing Peatland
3 Wasteland

//Artifacts: 14
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Pithing Needle
2 Anvil of Bogardan
2 Trinisphere

//Mortgage Payments: 6
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Nether Void
1 The Abyss

//Spells: 11
4 Life from the Loam
3 Smallpox
2 Dark Deal
2 Baleful Mastery

//Planeswalkers: 6
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Karn, the Great Creator

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sudden Edict
2 Plague Engineer
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


Since most of the business happens at 2 mana anyway, the idea is to slow down the game to let the lock come online. Opponent is highly punished for running Brainstorm. Karn lets you hide copies of the more conditional cards (Anvil, 3sphere) in the SB and is another wincon. Ancient Tomb is good with Saga, accelerates Karn and the artifacts, and boost the land count to support Mox Diamond, probably better than running Ritual here (except that Liliana is harder to cast). Dark Deal combos with Chains to make both players Hellbent and then mill more cards, which should cripple the opponent but play well with Loam.

This probably doesn't work in practice, but it sure seems like a fun reason to play Legends cards.

In paper, this is a good way to check if opponent knows the rules.
Trinisphere + Nether Void -> How much does that FoW cost again?
The Abyss + Saga/Foundry -> I have creatures, you don't
Chains + Anvil + Loam -> Look I can do things, you can't

[BlogBoy]

Without the Anvil combo, Chains is textless vs too many decks. What if it used Dark Deal to make both players immediately Hellbent (then just played out of the GY via Loam replacement effect), or Waste Not to gain value from each iteration? Probably too cute.

Edit: Chains Stompy aka "I have too many Legends cards".dec


//Lands: 24
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Nurturing Peatland
3 Wasteland

//Artifacts: 14
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Pithing Needle
2 Anvil of Bogardan
2 Trinisphere

//Mortgage Payments: 6
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Nether Void
1 The Abyss

//Spells: 11
4 Life from the Loam
3 Smallpox
2 Dark Deal
2 Baleful Mastery

//Planeswalkers: 6
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Karn, the Great Creator

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sudden Edict
2 Plague Engineer
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


Since most of the business happens at 2 mana anyway, the idea is to slow down the game to let the lock come online. Opponent is highly punished for running Brainstorm. Karn lets you hide copies of the more conditional cards (Anvil, 3sphere) in the SB and is another wincon. Ancient Tomb is good with Saga, accelerates Karn and the artifacts, and boost the land count to support Mox Diamond, probably better than running Ritual here (except that Liliana is harder to cast). Dark Deal combos with Chains to make both players Hellbent and then mill more cards, which should cripple the opponent but play well with Loam.

This probably doesn't work in practice, but it sure seems like a fun reason to play Legends cards.

In paper, this is a good way to check if opponent knows the rules.
Trinisphere + Nether Void -> How much does that FoW cost again?
The Abyss + Saga/Foundry -> I have creatures, you don't
Chains + Anvil + Loam -> Look I can do things, you can't

Glad to see more on Loam Pox thats one way to get results http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=33275&d=454025&f=LE

Also the reason why no is putting results with Mono Black Pox is the pure control variants is too underpowered. I think unless you're jamming Karns and Urza's Saga you should only Pox for the fun of it or omit Smallpox all together because the cards in Mono Black Pox that were there to break the symmetry of Smallpox are mostly no longer good in Legacy. Not even Liliana the Last Hope is that good anymore as she just dies before we get any real value out of her because we never utilize her -2. Wizards should give us a good delve threat for her.

[Reeplcheep]

A prominent poxer and ?owner? Of the legacy pit got pox irl recently.

Stay safe people and remember to get your CDC approved Tajuru Preserver

[OmniStrata]

Hopefully he pulls through and can Funeral Charm that damn preserver... There is no Tajuru Mandate. As a Pox player, I will never comply...

[OmniStrata]

Happy New Years fellow Pox Pilots!!

[z0anthr0pe]

Hi all, I'm contemplating sleeving up this list:


All in Pox

1 Nether Spirit

1 Bloodchief's Thirst
2 Cling to Dust
4 Dark Ritual
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 The Rack
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana's Triumph
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox

4 Castle Locthwain
1 Mishra's Factory
17 Swamp

Now that Ragavan is gone, do you fancy my chances of at least going 3-2? The local meta includes Doomsday, Storm, Burn, D&T, Lands, Ragavanless Delver.

Sorry, couildn't figure out how to do the card name links. Help welcome.

[PirateKing]

Not sure why only 1 Factory. If you're worried about making BB, an equal number of Urborgs covers that.
Zero Wasteland is also strange, but if you're anticipating never seeing a Urza's Saga, then you might be fine.