1CC
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Birds of Paradise
2CC
4 Tarmogoyf
3CC
3 Doran
3 Eternal Witness
2 Vindicate
3 Pernicious Deed
4CC
3 Harmonize
2 Snuff out
5CC
3 Lilliana Vess
8CC
2 Tombstalker
Land
7 Fetchlands
4 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savanah
5 Basics
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Round 1
Dreadstill
He played a very tight game, he played slow and made sure he didn't make any play mistakes.
Game 1
I open hand 6 lands and a Top, I keep tho in hind sight my turn 1 play should have been different.
He go's land go, I draw a STP, go Land top and it is Dazed. I draw enough diruption to pake it a game but never recover from the daze I walked into. I have 12 land in play never missing a land drop and lost to 2 trinket mages and a Factory.
Game 2
Aggitated I shuffle some more and open 2 land and some nice control/aggro cards and keep.
I never get off 2 land and he hits a wasteland right before I get land 3 so I lose round 1.
0-1 0-2
On a Side note Geoff played the exact same deck and had baiscally the exact smae games.
Round 2
Some Aggro deck, did not see enough of it to see what it was.
Game 1
I am sitting next to Geoff and we talk a little and both win the die roll and play. I resolve a turn 2 doran, turn 3 goyf kill him turn 5.
Game 2
See game 1
Geoffs game played out much the same we are both done look over and Hollywood is still playing so we go over and ask him why he is holding up the tournament? Hollywood wins quickly thereafter.
1-1 2-2
Round 3
Affinity
Game 1
He mulls to 5 I win the die roll, go Fetch-> Bayou-> Bop say go he gos Ornithopter->Go I go Tarmogoyf Scrubland->Thoughtseize (Frogmite) Goyf is a 3/4, he gos land, go, I go Snuff out on Ornithopter/doran swing for 5, he gos land cranial plating. I swing for 10, play vindicate on his land and he scoops.
Game 2
This was a little more stressfull. He gos, land-> Disciple of the Vault go, I go Land->Bop he gos land ornithopter a modular guy go, I go land deed, he go's land ornithopter, I go land Deed, he gos land something, I go land go, he gos land EOT I deed taking 5 off of the Diciple and with Disciple beats I am at 12 or something. He has 1 land in play and I play Doran he gos land modular guy. I go witness bring back deed I have 4 land in play. he gos ravager I go ok. I play deed 1 mana open. he swings I block he makes Ravager a 6/6 and kills doran, he casts cranial plating at some point. I deed next turn drop Tombstalker and just fly over for the win.
2-1 4-2
Round 4
Burn (Goyf Sligh)
Game 1 takes a long time, he drops me down to 1 for a long time and I regrow Witness and do some witness STP tricks with my creatures as he has no cards In hand to stay alive, I stabalize and am swinging with Tombstalker/Goyf/Witness for 11 a turn he topdecks 2 burn spells and I can not survive I die with him at 1(HUGE MISTAKE, I recount Goyf after I scoop and he was a 5/6 and I would have won if I would have checked Goyf count)
Game 2
Pissed off I play I go land go he plays grim lavamancer I stp it, he says go I go land Chalice for 1, he grumbles and drops a mountain says go this gos for awhile till he gets a green mana and drops goyf I vindicate the goyf and drop Lillina shortly there after make him discard he tosses a fanatic a chain lightning, a bolt and I use lilianas living death he doesn't know how it works and puts his critters on his side and I say no I get them and is aggitated due to having a crypt on his side. He scoops shortly afterwards.
Game 3
I draw into 3 goyfs and proceed a beat down quickly I am at 13, he does Price of Progress I fetch out a basic and take 6, I swing getting him to 5 life, he draws drops goyf, I swing out and kill him with Tombstalker.
3-1 6-3
Round 5
Faerie/Wizard Control
This kid Beat Geoff in the round before so I am a little concerned.
He plays some Faries and says something about a 10 turn clock and I am a little confused untill I find out he beat Geoff that way with like 7 counters in a row. I stp a Faerie and drop a goyf he plays a Jitte at some point I get deed to resolve start the major beatdown and he gets another Jitte with Mutavault and I need to over extend into more critters and he survives for awhil till I just over oper him due to Jitte not staing on Muta Vault.
Game 2 He does a lot of the same stuff draws the Wizard bounce land and does some combat tricks that are annoying, I oper power him in the end but he could have bounced a flash wizard and jitted me out at one point.
4-1 8-3
Top 8
MUC
Game 1
I walk into Back to Basics and grumble about it and lose soon after.
Game 2
I have Shackle hate come in wait till I see some of it get 1 in the yard off a Fact or Fiction looking for an extirpate or a Krosan grip I resolve a deed only to have in needled before I can blow it. He drops Meluku and I need to topdeck a Grip to stabalize and get back into the game, I dont and lose 0-2
I use the credit I win and some cash to get a goyf.
Props
Another great tourny thank you Over the Edge games
Team Left Field for having two reps in the top 8
Hollywood for taking Belcher too second place.
Geoff for driving the whole way out there.
Slops
The guy who scooped after his dread naught was echoing truthed not realising it bounced his opponents naught also.
Geoff for losing to Wizard Faerie gayness.
Major Deck Projects
Deck 2012: Angel Walk
Deck 2009: Tombstone
Deck 2007: Exploration Crucible:
Deck 2005:Bob the Belcher:
In hindsight I have discovered the error in my sideboarding idea's. Seems to be a trend with me, for some reason this deck doesn't sideboard the same as Landstill did. Oh well, i'll get used to the concept of it sooner or later. Unfortunatly both my losses were to Blue aggro control decks I had never faced before, lessons learned.Originally Posted by Raider Bob
On a side note my round 4 opponent that was playing faerie's seemed to be a faerie himself, he kept trying to call me Ted and then laughing at himself like there was some joke in calling me Ted, Freak. Hadley Mass, whole bunch of hot women and some friggin wierd ass magic players. Great store though, definetly reccomended.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
Geoff did you give up on this? I'm asking because you were playing Landstill on Saturday. What do the newer lists look like?
No I haven't given up on it but the previous week at comic zone was 1/2 mountain decks [goyf sligh and dragon stompy] and the other half was combo [fetchland tendrils and belcher]. My "easy" round was against black thresh. Me and big Brian have been doing way to good down there, people had to start to adapt at somepoint. Tombstone however is not 2005 Landstill and can be beaton by just playing a bunch of burn spells or using that whole storm mechanic. I have some alterations in the works but nothing I am 100% on yet.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
Regarding the opening post, I think this deck is dying to run 4 Smallpox and go up to 3-4 Tombstalkers with it. It's LD + Removal for a bargain basement price. If any of your creatures are in play, you should be winning anyways. But if they are not, you get a great advantage off of Smallpox.
Goyfs aren't quite as good as Tombstalker since they don't have evasion. But Doran is crap compared to either. Doran costs three mana as opposed to Tombstalker's 2cc and it actually costs 4 since you can't use your wastelands to play it, so running it as a singleton is pretty much useless.
I would honestly run Phyrexian Arena or something over Harmonize. Draw 3 cards for four mana is a lot. Arena gives you a greater advantage over the longer games you will undoubtedly be playing.
And for the love of god, please run 4 Wasteland in this deck. You should be able to support it if you cut Doran.
Honestly I would run a modified version of Vaka Pox running 4 Ghostly Prison (a one sided Deed that lasts forever thanks to your land destruction) with Liliana Vess.
Well... you see the current version of this deck doesn't play any land destruction effects it has been switched to discard. In this deck Harmonize is an absolute bomb and since it is the top of the curve you have usually played out all your cards by the time you need to cast it and 4 Mana isn't that big of a deal. Turn 2 Doran wins games, it's as simple as that. The deck does run 3 Tombstalker's, perhap's you should scroll up and take a look at the current list that is posted?
Edit: I guess I won't be lazy and I'll copy the list over again.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
I liked the old build better, just because it was something new. Abusing LD and Liliana Vess.
The recent list you posted is basically The Rock.
"Well... you see the current version of this deck doesn't play any land destruction effects it has been switched to discard. "
Umm... you play a grand total of 4 discard spells. It hasn't switched over to discard as the strategy.
The deck is basically, decent creatures + creature kill.
The one and only tool that it has against the entire combo archeatype is a grandtotal of 4 Thoughtseize.
But it seems very solid against aggro.
I would honestly just prefer to play Eva Green (playing Duress or Smother + Reanimate in place of Seal of Primordium) over this deck though. It's pretty similar but it's faster, and gets to run broken stuff like Dark Ritual and Hymn to Tourach.
I also run Cabal Therapy in my SB. This deck also has considerable card quality and quantity, things The Rock does not have. Also unlike Eva Green this deck doesn't burn out in the first few turns, and I assure you the deck can propel large threats into play with a considerable amount of speed. Turn 2 Doran hasn't exactly been a bad play in legacy at the moment.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
I have played this deck in 3 Tournys of 36, 31, and 49 people in the past 4 months and top eighted each of those times. The deck plays very well.
Major Deck Projects
Deck 2012: Angel Walk
Deck 2009: Tombstone
Deck 2007: Exploration Crucible:
Deck 2005:Bob the Belcher:
Umm so I went 7-0-2 with this deck in the second prelim event for worlds at gencon running the exact list posted above. I can go over some new SB strategies if there is any interest in the deck.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
Well I thought this deck was almost dead. Congrats on the finish, but you are GEOFF fucking Smelski!!!!!! Anyrate if you want to post the SB I'm interested.
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The stories of my demise have been grossly exaggerated
You never wanted to cut the list down to 60 cards? 61 just looks weird to me.
I went 6-2 At the Legacy Championship with this deck running into Enchantress and Tendrils as my only 2 lossess on the day. and I went 3-0-1 at the event day 3 so all in all the deck was 16-2-3 on the Gen-Con Weekend.
@Running 61 cards I play only 2 Snuff outs dropping it to 60 Cards.
Major Deck Projects
Deck 2012: Angel Walk
Deck 2009: Tombstone
Deck 2007: Exploration Crucible:
Deck 2005:Bob the Belcher:
thnx I will be trying that!
4x Krosan Grip
4x Engineered Plague
4x Extirpate
3x Cabal Therapy
Combo is and will always be the decks week spot but discard plus Extirpate seems to be the most relevent disruption I can come up with without hating out on particular decks, ie running 4x Teeg and 4x Chant for storm.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
You could probably go with 2-3 Teeg in the board. That should help out the combo match some. Considering you do have more then a few dead cards in that match.
What are the numbers on Ichorid?? I would have to say it's probably your better combo match.
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The stories of my demise have been grossly exaggerated
Teeg is dangerous as it shuts off Harmonize, EE, Crime and Punishment and Snuff Out. I was running Mage at Gencon. I have yet to lose a round to Ichorid with the deck but alot of my wins were in game 3. The cards exist to beat combo easily but after testing it needs to be about 7 relevent cards to get the winning percentage high enough to expect to win. The problem is that they almost always take game one and can beat you game 3 before you even play a card. Not 100% sure on many slots are worth trying to salvage a bad match up.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
I totaally forgot about Harmonize. I'm not sure the other cards are really relevent in like the TES match-up though. I mean they have to kill Teeg or try to Grapeshot you out. But basically what your saying is to punt the combo match, but if you win that's good also?
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The stories of my demise have been grossly exaggerated
konsultant, that's really cool you did well with the list.
But as for the current definitive Tombstone list here...
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...642#post221642
splashing blue to run 4 Brainstorm maindeck just seems not worthwhile. But though I generally prefer Deed, I do love Crime / Punishment though. How often do you end up using the reanimate ability? It seems to be to mana intensive to ever see use, but I could be wrong.
But as for throwing in blue to the list for Brainstorm, I mean, why do that to the decks manabase. You run enough colors already without having to splash blue as well. Brainstorm isn't a broken card, not in the manner that Goyf or StP/Vindicate are, enough to justify a splash.
Anyways, over at the Eva Green thread, I was testing a 3 color version and am now testing this list...
4 tarmogoyf
4 hypnotic specter
4 tombstalker
3 doran, the siege tower (this is the card now being tested. it's a slot that used to be occupied by either phyrexian negator, nantuko shade, or ashenmoor gouger)
4 dark ritual
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
3 vindicate
3 snuff out
2 swords to plowshares/reanimate
4 wasteland
4 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
3 bayou
3 scrubland
2 swamp
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
If I was to stick with Doran, I'm considering the merits of Birds of Paradise in place of dark ritual. I will have to switch up the manabase though, but I really liked having a manabase that supports Hypnotic Specter, Hymn to Tourach and Sinkhole.
Hypnotic Specter could easily be swapped for either Skyshroud Elite or Eternal Witness.
Basically, if I do that and replace the manabase and Hymn and Sinkhole, I wind up with this deck. But I wonder if Eva Green is just plain better though. Does Doran offer enough of an advantage over Ashenmoor Gouger/Phyrexian Negator/Nantuko Shade as to justify reworking the manabase to the point that it may no longer be able to support Hymn and Sinkhole? I think not. Another option is to go with a transformational sideboard just for kicks.
What do you guys think? Can anyone give me a frank assessment of what matchups this deck shines in that Eva Green has difficulty with and what matchups this has a toughtime with that Eva Green shines in.
You can see the similarities. I figured it was better to just ask here as you guys already are playing the deck that I would be transforming Eva Green into.
Thank you so much for any help or advise you have to offer.
@The Blue Splash for Brainstorm
I will be the first to admit that I felt this was a bad Idea, I had tried this route earlier with Ponder and it fell flat. That being said Going to GenCon this year I had the opportunity to watch Geoff play 7 rounds with the brainstorm version and Brainstorm is really just that good in this deck. I then played the brainstorm version for the championship and went 6-2 on the day losing to Enchantress and Tendrils two of the decks poor matchups.
@The ManaBase
The Brainstorm Splash is really just that a Splash and if you resolve one Brainstorm your one source of blue mana has done its job.
The Trop, Underground sea, Tundra We were running two trops at GenCon replace a Swamp a Forest and a Plains. Other than being Wasteland targets(AND they are the first target anyone hits) and more apt to Magus of the Moon beats, you really do not lose anything by playing the blue splash. Brainstorm if held and not used as soon as you see it in your hand(IE using it when you need an specific card) becomes an Ancestral Recall in this deck. You find yourself more often than with a full grip of cards running into Harmonize/Witness Chains and Brainstorm really just digs the 3 cards deeper and allows you to flush away cards you do not need.
As far as Eva Green go's: We looked at Eva Green long and Hard as it was just better than the original build we had made. Eva Green is an Aggro deck and Tombstone plays more as a control deck beating you with Card advantage and not early disruption coupled with beats. Eva Greens bad matchups are any game that makes it past turn 5, Tombstones best matchups are anygame that makes it to turn 5. They are really very different decks and a lot of the reason people have a hard time winning with Tombstone if they are having issues is they Take the Aggro Role in the Matchup and do not take the role they need to take to actually win the matchup.
@Your propsosed list: You are trying to add more control elements to Eva Green, The issue you will most likely run into is your not running a draw engine and that is the same place Eva Green run short, You around turn 6 will be in top deck mode if the game lasts that long of course. Any deck that has a compitent draw engine will jump on that opening and just beat you.
A common play that makes Tombstone dominate games are
Turn 1: Winswept Heath -> Bayou. Play Birds of Paradise
Turn 2: Polluted Delta -> Scrubland. Play Doran, the Seige Tower
Turn 3: Forest, Attack with Doran, Play Harmonize
Turn 4: Windswept heath, Attack with Doran, Play Eteral Witness Regrow Harmonize Say go Play Brainstorm on opp turn Flush away some of the bad cards in your hand
Turn 5: Play whatever you need to play to win the game.
Major Deck Projects
Deck 2012: Angel Walk
Deck 2009: Tombstone
Deck 2007: Exploration Crucible:
Deck 2005:Bob the Belcher:
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