[Primer] "Trisomy 21" / Bgw Loam Control

[FoolofaTook]

Just as an aside, can you please change the name of the deck? "Trisomy 21" is not at all descriptive, especially since Spellweaver Helix isn't even in the deck at this point. "B.g.w Loam Control" is good, so is "Loam Pox" and "Dirt" (a previous poster mentioned this name). Really anything would be better.

I figured Trisomy 21 was because of the way the deck retarded the opposition's progress. It actually is VERY descriptive, however I can see where it would offend people and maybe changing it is wise for that reason.

Half of the time the opponent is sitting around doing nothing by turn 4 and won't be for the rest of the game.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

I figured Trisomy 21 was because of the way the deck retarded the opposition's progress. It actually is VERY descriptive, however I can see where it would offend people and maybe changing it is wise for that reason.

Half of the time the opponent is sitting around doing nothing by turn 4 and won't be for the rest of the game.

That's exactly what the deck does and that's why I don't want to change the name. Sure, the name was first used because of the Helix, but it turned out that the name does fit to the deck without that card as well :).

I've got two new Top 8's the deck made, but I don't know the exact place nor the exact number of people that attended at the tournaments. The first Top 8 was at a GPT in Utrecht, Netherlands with 60+ people and the second was at a GPT in Düsseldorf, Germany with 37 people ( http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31748 ). At the last tournament he is on the 4th place, but I think the places aren't right because the 8th place has won Byes for the GP Madrid too. If I get more information, I'll inform you.

€:// The 8th (Ichorid) and the Trisomy-player splitted in the finals, I heard.

[leander?]

I've got two new Top 8's the deck made, but I don't know the exact place nor the exact number of people that attended at the tournaments. The first Top 8 was at a GPT in Utrecht, Netherlands with 60+ people

I think you mean the GPT Eindhoven with 65 players. A Trisomy player lost the QF's there with this list:


4 verdant catacombs
1 gigapede
1 worm harvest
2 swords to plowshares
3 innocent blood
4 smallpox
4 sinkholes
4 vindicate
1 raven's crime
2 entomb
4 life from the loam
3 engineered explosives
3 sensei's divining top
4 mox diamond
4 wasteland
1 bloodstained mire
4 barren moor
2 tranquil thicket
1 cabal pit
3 bayou
2 scrubland
2 swamp
1 forest

sideboard
3 engineered plague
3 ravanous trap
2 coffin purge
4 duress
3 sadistic sacrament

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

I think you mean the GPT Eindhoven with 65 players. A Trisomy player lost the QF's there with this list:

Oh, sorry. Of course I meant Eindhoven. Thanks for the decklist. I think he lost to Combo, am I right?

[leander?]

That is correct. He lost to ANT.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

After I discussed the SB with one of my teammate, I realized that you have to accept the bad combo-MU because you can't fight it with 4 Duress and 3 Sacrament. I'd rather hate Ichorid. The Ichorid-hate is also good against other decks. Here is my recent SB:


3 Coffin Purge
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle

What do you think?

[Romanus]

Built this deck last night. Wow, exactly what I have always wanted to play. Destructive control is so much fun


Might be a total noob question but trap over Leyline?

[dorsch]

In best case scenario you drop Leyline turn 0 versus dredge. Since you have almost no clock at all, Dredge will play chain of vapor or ray of relevation at end of turn and will go nuts with their perfect sculpted hand, afterwards.

Ravenous Trap hits them unsuspected at the right moment during their turn and instantly removes the whole graveyard.
On the other Hand, Ravenous Trap can be discarded via Therapy or Unmask, it also can't handle reanimator most of the time.

Coffin Purge and Extirpate are nuts, but maybe, if you wish additional grave-hate, Tormods Crypt is better than the trap?

Edit:

After I discussed the SB with one of my teammate, I realized that you have to accept the bad combo-MU because you can't fight it with 4 Duress and 3 Sacrament. I'd rather hate Ichorid. The Ichorid-hate is also good against other decks. Here is my recent SB:


3 Coffin Purge
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle

What do you think?

I like your graveyard-package. As i said above, do you think Tormod's Crypt is worse that Ravaneous Trap? Why?

I do not like Engineered Plague. The first one hardly does anything versus tribal decks, only a second plague will seal the game. Even though you might board them versus dredge, i am testing 2-3 Damnation or Pernicious Deed in my sideboard.

What is pithing Needle for? Allmost all situations i can imagine i would prefer Krosan Grip. I know you wrote you want to hate Aether Vial, but naming Sensei's Divining Top versus Counterbalance is lame and does not save from random flips. Please share your thoughts.

[nodahero]

I just piloted this list to a second place finish tonight in a 22 man tourney. Overall the deck seemed to play fairly well and efficently. I even managed to beat Belcher (with alot of luck game 1) and I managed to Vindicate his Belcher game 2 because he needed to untap to kill me. He was one mana short.

I think the deck is a very solid contender overall. The one problem I seemed to have was the inability to recover from topdeck mode without Loam. While it only happened once it was brutally painful when it did... Speaking of which what would everyone say about the follwoing opening seven on the draw: 2 Waste, 2 Diamond, Vindicate, and Innocent blood? The game was against Monoblack critter kill... A large majority of its spells didn't happen till turn 3 although he did run Hymm and Sinkhole.

[Joon]

Another big advantage of the trap is that you can hide it with Top, so no Therapy and no Unmask will ever get it.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

I just piloted this list to a second place finish tonight in a 22 man tourney. Overall the deck seemed to play fairly well and efficently. I even managed to beat Belcher (with alot of luck game 1) and I managed to Vindicate his Belcher game 2 because he needed to untap to kill me. He was one mana short.

Congratulations to the finish. Nice to see someone played the deck :).

Speaking of which what would everyone say about the follwoing opening seven on the draw: 2 Waste, 2 Diamond, Vindicate, and Innocent blood? The game was against Monoblack critter kill... A large majority of its spells didn't happen till turn 3 although he did run Hymm and Sinkhole.

I would keep it. No risk, no fun ;).

Another big advantage of the trap is that you can hide it with Top, so no Therapy and no Unmask will ever get it.

That's right. I really like the Trap.


So, I played the deck yesterday in the Iserlohn GPT with 97 people. I went 4-3-0, but I'm really satisfied with the deck. Here's my little report, if you read it, you will know why I'm happy with it:

Round 1 vs. Elves Combo:
G1: He started with Forest, Llanowar Elves. I play Mox, Land, Smallpox. From this point he never recovers.
G2: He has got more Elves than I've got removal. The beatdown kills me.
G3: I kept an hand with 2 Explosives, 2 Vindicates, 1 spot removal and 2 lands. Until turn 6 I don't see a third land and I lost to 25 hasty Elves. If I had drawn the third land, I think I would have won.
1-2
0-1-0

Round 2 vs. Goyf Sligh:
G1: He quickly beats me down to 4 and Price of Progress gave me the rest.
G2: I've got the total control. It's too much removal for him.
G3: I kept an hand with 5 lands, one Sinkhole and one Top. In this game I drew three Vindicates. He lost.
2-1
1-1-0

Round 3 vs. Next Level Storm:
G1: Combo, I'm dead.
G2: See above.
0-2
1-2-0

Round 4 vs. Merfolk:
G1: He was too fast for me and had too many lands.
G2: I've got too much hate for him. Gigapede beats him to death.
G3: He started with first turn Aether Vial. I play land, Explosives, go. He puts a counter on the Vial and passed the turn. I drop a land and activate the Explosives. In response he vialed in a Cursecatcher which unfortunately dies to EE. Same goes for the Vial. After this mistake of him I attacked his manabase. He scoops.
2-1
2-2-0

Round 5 vs. Belcher:
G1: He begins with 16 token. Great.
G2: I kept an hand with Loam, Mox, 2 lands, Raven's Crime. After he had no handcards he scoops.
G3: Belcher for XX damage.
1-2
2-3-0

Great, I totally prepared for Dredge, but it's so unlucky to play against three combo-decks.

Round 6 vs. Bant:
G1: He get's CB + Top within the first two turns. A Vindicate on the Balance was countered by it, but a few turns later a Gigapede enters the battlefield. He drops a 4/5 Goyf, but my Gigapede-blockteam is stronger. A turn later Noble Hierarch enters battlefield on his side, but the Goyf is still too small for my Pede. He attacked with his Hierarch and it was thrown in a threshed Cabal Pit by me. It's my turn and I attack with Gigapede, the Goyf blocks. Recurring 5 mana removal, great. The next turn I returned my Pede to my hand, found an EE, tap four of my lands for BBGG and cast an Explosives for two counters with converted manacost four. „And this works?“, he asked. „Sure.“, I said. He looked sad :D. I blew up his Counterbalance knowing that he has got a Counterbalance on the top. I played Live grabbed a few lands and wasted one of his. He has only got three lands left. In his turn he dropped a CB. He asked me how I will win this game with such a board position. I know how. I drew a Sinkhole and destroyed a land of him and dropped Gigapede. The whole time I have got two Swords in my hand and I know exactly what I want to do with them. The Gigapede attacked him twice, he went to 1. He dropped Goyf and hasn't got any mana left. So I sworded it. He responded by tapping the Top. I responded by sword it again. The Goyf is removed, he gains 6 life and the Gigapede ended the game within two turns.
This game was about 30 minutes long. He just don't wanted to die :D.
G2: He started with Plains, Top. I dropped a land and played a Needle. „Is that okay for you“, I asked. He thinked. „Yes“, he replied. „Sensei's Diving Top“. „Your's will not work either, right?“. „Right“. Sidenote: I boarded mine out^^.
He dropped a land and passed the turn. I played a land and passed. He played a land and Pridemage with one mana left. EOT I tried to sword his Pridemage... and succeeded oO. Okay, better for me. After that I totally bombed up his manabase and Gigapede ends the game.
After the game he showed me how he boarded:
- X Daze (!) (They are good against landdestruction, why he boarded them out?)
- X Spell Snare
- 4 Goyf
+ X Path to Exile (!)
+ X Relic
+ 4 Meddling Mage
I asked him why he boarded in the Pathes. He answered that he wanted to sword the Gigapede... „Okay, I can live with that. He has got shroud“, I said. „Oh“. Yeah, oh :).
2-0
3-3-0

Round 7 vs. Zoo:
G1: He started with land, Kird Ape. I had a land, Mox, Smallpox start. Smallpox > one-land-hand. He scooped after he had no handcards because of Raven's Crime.
G2: Every land an creatures dies to my removal. Gigapede entered the battlefield. I've got two Wastelands and a threshed Cabal Pit out with Life from the Loam in my graveyard. He is on 18, so I need three turns to win. He drew a land, dropped it and played a creature. I dredged my Life, wasted his land and threw his creature into the Pit. I played a Life and dropped Wasteland, Cabal Pit is on my hand. Gigapede attacked for 6, he is on 12. Next turn he drew a second land, dropped it and played a guy. I dredged the Life, wasted his land, pitted his creatures, attacked for 6. He is on 6. He drew a third land, dropped it, played a guy. I dredged Life, wasted his land, pitted his creature and attacked with Pede for the win. Oh my got, I just totally wrecked him without even play a destruction-spell. Nice :).
After the match he told me that he totally hate my deck and that he played it the second time today. He lost the first one too.
2-0
4-3-0

I'm totally pleased with the result. I won all non-combo-matches which is superb. I think I have to make up my mind to my SB. I should really run combo-hate.

There were two other Trisomy-decks at this tournament. One went 4-1-2 because he thought too much in some situations and one went 4-3-0. He had to play against the Next Level Storm- and Belcher-guy I played before and lost.


On the same day the Top 8 of the leagues were played out. In the Legacy Top 8 there were two players that played Trisomy. One that hasn't got any experience with the deck and one that just played one tournament with it, so he hasn't got too much experience either. The guy without the experience lost in the first round, but the other won the Top 8. He defeated Ad Nauseam Storm 2-1 (it was a little bit lucky, yeah^^), Merfolk 2-1 and ProBant 2-0 in the finals.

The deck can really win any non-combo-matchup. And for the combo-MU here is my SB I'll test:

4 Duress
3 Raven's Crime
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Coffin Purge
3 Slots Free

I don't know what to play in the three free slots. Maybe one Purge, one Trap and one random Thoughtseize. Or one Purge and two Seizes.

What do you guys think?

[dorsch]

Congratulations on your wins, too bad you faced so much combo. Though the merfolk and the bant player don't seem like tough opponents, based on the mistakes you listed.

Could you please explain why you prefer Pithing Needles to Krosan Grip?

For your combo-sb:
You should switch some of the Graveyard hate for Extirpate
- Extirpate is great graveyard hate versus Reanimator and Life from the Loam and still good vs Dredge
- With so much discard, Extirpate might remove a card in their hand, if they hold two copies of an extirpate-worth card.
- Duress on Tendrils followed by Extirpate means gg (still great to permanently remove any important card)
- Extirpate shuffles after Mystical Tutor

Edit: What sb did you use? Any fundamental changes maindeck?

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

Congratulations on your wins, too bad you faced so much combo. Though the merfolk and the bant player don't seem like tough opponents, based on the mistakes you listed.

Could you please explain why you prefer Pithing Needles to Krosan Grip?

For your combo-sb:
You should switch some of the Graveyard hate for Extirpate
- Extirpate is great graveyard hate versus Reanimator and Life from the Loam and still good vs Dredge
- With so much discard, Extirpate might remove an additional card in their hand
- Duress on Tendrils followed by Extirpate means gg (or other important-cards)
- Extirpate shuffles after Mystical Tutor

Oh yeah, of course I'll explain it. The reason is, that you can shut down Aether Vial early and that Krosan Grip costs three. I haven't tested the Grip before, but I think, if I play it, that the Needle does a better job. Maybe I'll test it, but I think we don't need any ony them. The bad matchups are Combo and Dredge, the other one you can win quite well.

Extirpate is a good card that effects the Combo and Dredge-MU. I thought of it too, it's also good against Thresh by removing their Tropical Island ;). So, the SB looks like this:

4 Duress
3 Raven's Crime
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Coffin Purge
3 Extirpate

[MrShine]

I don't know if you've tested it or not, but Engineered Plague might be good; while you already have a good matchup against merfolk (what about goblins?) its obviously great vs tribal. It could help in the Belcher matchup and maybe even Ichorid; naming goblins against belcher is a serious impediment, and when combined with needles for belcher gives you some good hate (not to mention discard aswell). Against Ichorid you could name zombies or Horror if your graveyard hate doesn't quite work, and im not sure what kind of storm you are facing but if they have an Empty the Warrens plan Plague can be useful here too.

VS ETW and dredged zombies, though, EE @ zero is also pretty good but having redundant hate thats good in tribal matches too could be useful. Just a thought.

Why no Pithing Needle?

EDIT: Extripate seems like a great complement to the land destruction, removing non-basics for good is always awesome :D. Krosan Grip seems like it has merits (you can always play it T2 with moxen, as with plague).

Why so much GY hate? 8 pieces seems like alot

[dorsch]

I think Krosan Grip is better versus Survival (pridemage) and Counterbalance (Force and still gets random flips after shutting down top and you have to side out tops).
Are there any cards you will board Needle against which Krosan Grip will be worse, except Aether vial?

What do you think about Bojuka Bog? Maybe one copy maindeck? I don't think it should be added in the sideboard.


Bojuka Bog
Land (Common)
~ETB tapped
T:add B
When ~ ETB remove all cards in target players graveyard from the game.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

I don't know if you've tested it or not, but Engineered Plague might be good; while you already have a good matchup against merfolk (what about goblins?) its obviously great vs tribal. It could help in the Belcher matchup and maybe even Ichorid; naming goblins against belcher is a serious impediment, and when combined with needles for belcher gives you some good hate (not to mention discard aswell). Against Ichorid you could name zombies or Horror if your graveyard hate doesn't quite work, and im not sure what kind of storm you are facing but if they have an Empty the Warrens plan Plague can be useful here too.

VS ETW and dredged zombies, though, EE @ zero is also pretty good but having redundant hate thats good in tribal matches too could be useful. Just a thought.

Why no Pithing Needle?

EDIT: Extripate seems like a great complement to the land destruction, removing non-basics for good is always awesome :D. Krosan Grip seems like it has merits (you can always play it T2 with moxen, as with plague).

Why so much GY hate? 8 pieces seems like alot

Actually I played the Plague every tournament now and I realized that I don't really need it. Sure, it's great, but I think you need the SB-space for other matchups. If you have got two in play, they are good, but otherwise they aren't that good.

Why so much GY-hate? I want to win against Dredge! :D

Edit: What sb did you use? Any fundamental changes maindeck?

MD:
// Lands
1 Cabal Pit
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Swamp
4 Wasteland
2 Scrubland
4 Barren Moor
1 Forest

// Creatures
1 Gigapede

// Spells
3 Innocent Blood
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mox Diamond
1 Worm Harvest
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Vindicate
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Raven's Crime
1 Entomb

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Zuran Orb
SB: 3 Coffin Purge
SB: 1 The Tabernacle of the ...
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

The SB was just Ichorid as you can the. The plan was not to play against Combo... Good plan, isn't it? xD

I think Krosan Grip is better versus Survival (pridemage) and Counterbalance (Force and still gets random flips after shutting down top and you have to side out tops).
Are there any cards you will board Needle against which Krosan Grip will be worse, except Aether vial?

What do you think about Bojuka Bog? Maybe one copy maindeck? I don't think it should be added in the sideboard.


Bojuka Bog
Land (Common)
~ETB tapped
T:add B
When ~ ETB remove all cards in target players graveyard from the game.

I think you are right on the Grip. But I've lost to more Aether Vials than Survival and Counterbalance. They both need mana :D. Maybe I'll test the Grip a bit.

The land is good. I thought about one copy MD and one SB, but the problem is, what would you cut at the MD?

[leander?]

What about Hide/Seek vs storm?

[dorsch]

Since we do not run red mana (besides Mox) I would prefer Sadistic Sacrament. There are many combo decks which use more than 1 win condition.
Brot Ohne Kruste used to have some copies (Sadistic Sacrament) in his sideboard, but it seems like now he prefers other combo hate.

[leander?]

Over here (Netherlands/Flanders) literally none of the better storm (ANT) players play more kills than 1 Tendrils (apart from SB EtW, but EE should deal with that).

@BOK, in your primer you said that the German version was much larger. Do you have a link? Becouse I'm interested in reading it.

Also, what kind of SB cards would you guys reccomend for this metagame:

ANT
Merfolk
The Rock
Goblins
Eva Green
Countertop
Domain Zoo

Maybe something along the lines of:

4 Hide/Seek
3 Duress
2 StP/I-Blood
2 Needle
2 Z-Orb
2 P-Deed

Also, whats up with your nick? Imo crusts are about the best part of bread..

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

Since we do not run red mana (besides Mox) I would prefer Sadistic Sacrament. There are many combo decks which use more than 1 win condition.
Brot Ohne Kruste used to have some copies (Sadistic Sacrament) in his sideboard, but it seems like now he prefers other combo hate.

I used to run the Sacraments, yeah. The problem is that it is a bit too slow. Getting 3 mana even on the play is hard against combo because you could be dead within the first two turns. Another point why Sacrament isn't that good is that you can't exile cards from the opponents hand. If he has got the wincondition on his hand, you are just dead.
I haven't tried Raven's Crime yet, but I think they are better. They are coming first turn for at least one, it's not a big deal, if they duress them (which is really a problem with Sacrament) and they are getting stronger by having the Loam. I made the experience that losing one handcard could be very hard for combo that's why I think the Crime is better than the Sacrament.

@BOK, in your primer you said that the German version was much larger. Do you have a link? Becouse I'm interested in reading it.

Here it is:
http://www.magicuniverse.de/html/kolumnen.php?id=1431
The combo-MU, especially the postboard-MU, wasn't tested often at that time. Same goes for the Landstill-MU, but I think the numbers could be okay. To write down the percentage-description was kinda bad, but it was my very first primer that was longer than five pages in Word (I think it was about ten pages long). I should have left them out, even if they are pretty accurate I think (except the MUs named before).

Also, what kind of SB cards would you guys reccomend for this metagame:

ANT (Duress, Raven's Crime)
Merfolk (Needle and maybe Plague)
The Rock (nothing)
Goblins (Needle and maybe Plague. In this MU even more than in the Merfolk-MU)
Eva Green (nothing)
Countertop (maybe Needle or, as dorsch stated, Grip)
Domain Zoo (maybe Zuran Orb)

Maybe something along the lines of:

4 Hide/Seek (I don't really like it. Here in Germany there are many lists with two Tendrils)
3 Duress
2 StP/I-Blood (could be okay, but I think you really want to have the SB-space)
2 Needle
2 Z-Orb (Zuran Orbs were added when the deck played three Helices, Maelstrom Pulse and three more Crimes. Now you have got more removal, so I don't think you'll need it. At the tournament it was never used by me even I had it in play)
2 P-Deed (I'd rather add the last Explosives)

With this SB you want to cover all MUs, right? You really don't neede to push positive MUs for us again, I think, so Zuran Orb and the Slots of Swords/Blood and Deed (which is too slow) are free. Furthermore I'm not really convinced by the Hide/Seek and the fact that you are loosing to Dredge pretty hard...

Also, whats up with your nick? Imo crusts are about the best part of bread..

Sure they are. It's just a stupid name I really like. I've got it since four years now, I suppose and I think it's kinda funny :).

Built this deck last night. Wow, exactly what I have always wanted to play. Destructive control is so much fun

Hi,

I haven't totally forgot you. Sorry for that. Nice to hear that you like that deck :). Have you tested it a bit? How were your results?