[Deck] Merfolk

[Tammit67]

Without mutavault, how do you answer piledriver? I can see how the increased lords give you a better time against these decks (goblins, zoo), but without the vaults, it seems you are setting yourself up for taking a ton in just one swing.

[TheSleeper]

Funny - my gut instinct was to go 2 Mutavault, something along the lines of Goblin decks that run 4 Waste & 2 Port for reach.

[4eak]

@ Tammit67

Without mutavault, how do you answer piledriver? I can see how the increased lords give you a better time against these decks (goblins, zoo), but without the vaults, it seems you are setting yourself up for taking a ton in just one swing.

Piledriver is certainly ugly. In fact, if it hits play, your chances of winning already drop dramatically, Mutavault or no. You really want to win before he becomes relevant, regardless of the build. I don't think Mutavault is a necessary part of winning the games we had a real shot at winning in the first place.

I try to race Piledriver(s). If I'm doing well, I'm ahead on tempo and able to lay my critters out before they can lay theirs--that's the best shot. 3 or more early lords can force them to block or prevent them from swinging with a piledriver without getting alpha-striked the next turn. If and when you arrive at an impasse where you can't effectively alphastrike; Merfolk Soverign's ability, Reejerey taps, and CCommander's flying help you close the distance.

Goblins can mount an effective offense on our manabase as well; making a high island count useful and our non-basics less useful. Goblins running Rishadan port alongside Wasteland will usually neutralize Mutavault to begin with as well. Against those which do not play Port, Mutavault is stronger but still quite vulnerable to Wasteland and other forms of removal (which a smart Goblins player will plan to use in order to prevent a Mutavault defense). I consider Mutavault useful against Piledriver, but also a serious risk in the face of Goblins' mana-denial and removal. While I prefer having Mutavault in this matchup, it isn't by the same margin than you might prefer it.

As I said before, I do side Jitte in for this match. It can work miracles (and can target Piledriver), although Goblins can certainly stop you from getting it active. It's a fast paced matchup, and not in Merfolk's favor (no matter how you build the deck). The question, in my eyes is whether or not Mutavault is worth the loss (in some combination) of Islands (essential for so much costs in the deck), the extra slots for spells, near immunity from Wasteland, and slightly higher chance of mana-flooding. I'm certainly open to the possibility that Mutavault belongs in the build, I'm just not convinced it does. I'm hoping more testing and time will tell.




peace,
4eak

[Ozymandias]

Played a swiss+1 tourney at Knight Ware today, going 5-1 for second. Played the following list

4 Cursecatcher
4 LoA
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Rejeery
2 Merrow Sovereign
1 Sower of Temptation
4 FoW
4 Daze
1 Echoing Truth
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
12 Island
SB:
4 Propaganda
3 Back to Basics
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Submerge
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner.

R1 I played belcher, with the FoW game one blind, like a master, and g2 opening on double force and eventually getting there. Super Standard, cut Jittes/sower/1 sovereign for 4 propaganda vs Warrens
r2 I played 43 lands. Game one he triple maze of iths me, and I scoop to save time. g2 I govIsland-relic-island-adept-island b2b waste, lord, lord and he is mana screwed. g3 I rush him with a solid Vial curve and he has no answers. I Cut Standstills Jittes, sowers, and etruths focut standstillsr b2b and yard hate
r3 I played Dredge. Got stomped G1, board in jitte, yard hate, and propaganda, and cut Standstills, extra lords, and a daze or two. g2 he mulls to 4 and I have the force, and g3 I just tempo him out with Catcher->waste->LoA+Daze->Rejeery.
r4 I played aggro loam. g1 I race a terravore, and I bring in jitte, relics, b2b, and shave lords. g2 we run each other out of resources and he wins the topdeck war. g3 I can't find a force and I lose to double devastating dreams with a LftL in between
r5 I played Vampires+Dark Depths. g1 I Jitte up a lord, play another, and beat down, topdecking a force to save me from an ignominous hex/depths demise. g2 he mulls to 5 and I come out strong, with well-timed Dazes, a lord curve, and topping with a wasteland for his combo. I just board in a jitte+kira for a daze and a sovereign
r6 I played Imperial Recruiter/Trinket Mage Painter/stone. G1 he goes grindstone, painter's servant, and has the force for my daze. I lose on t3.
g2 I go vial, waste Badlands, Silvergill Adept+Silvergill Adept, Rejeery+Rejeery (one pyroblasted) echoing truth Painter's Servant and swing for exact. g3 I run out a standstill with a cursecatcher+coralhelm on board. He misplays tremendously, cracking Standstill with a duress and taking Standstill instead of Back to Basics. I lock him down and kill him shortly thereafter. I sided out some lords for Jitte+B2B.

All in all, the deck was powerful and fun, and I would play it again in a heartbeat. I did feel a bit light on permission on times, and for every time I felt like a cheater for Dazing my opponent's spell of the top, there were times when I stared forlornly at a copy in my hand and wept as it did nothing. I don't know what other counter I would add MD besides Spell Pierce. Standstill was nuts all day, and I can't see cutting it. Sower of Temptation was the nut low, and will become a Commander, a jitte, an echoing truth, a rushing river, or a spell pierce.

[Purgatory]

How did you manage with only 16 lands? Why no Mutas?

[Yan]

How did you manage with only 16 lands? Why no Mutas?

you really should count the cards on the list so you could come to the conclusion that it is missing 4 cards... now hmmm, let me think what they could be...no, absolutely no idea what they might be.

[Finn]

4reak, I think I see your position on stuff like Thorn. That's all well and good. I want players to recognize that people who are experimenting with CC understand that simply adding 4 more creatures without removing other creatures reduces something significant. In most cases it is disruption, and that is going to impact the bottom line against stuff like storm, reanimator, etc. In your case, the change seems to be Standstill (and not the "flex" spots as most others are doing). I think that is just nuts, but only time will tell. For me, I say cut some other creatures below 4. Which ones? Hell, I dunno. Right now, I cut 1 Sovereign, 1 Cursecatcher, 1 flex, and added 3 Commanders.

[Purgatory]

@Yan: wtf, I actually did count the cards - twice, and ended up with 60 both times. I suppose I was tired or something...

In any case, you really could point out my mistake without being a condescending jerk too, you know.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

So, all this talk of testing builds without Standstill has me thinking of trying out an old variation one more time. Ch-ch-check it out:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Shapesharer
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Merfolk Sovereign

4 Aether Vial
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
12 Island

Pretty simple and to the point. I understand that the prevalence of QPM makes Dreadnought much less of a hot look these days, and I concede that this list would probably not do very well versus Bant or Zoo, or other decks who use the Pridemage. On the other hand, I think it might just sneak up on folks as much as it ever has. Many people no longer expect Stifle from us any more, and playing around it essentially wastes the opponent's tempo, so it seems like it could be a strong maindeck in certain metas.

Anyhow, I'll leave the bulk of the theory-crafting to y'all. Here are the questions I have:

-Is this basically what an optimal Dreaded Merfolk maindeck would look like today? Why or why not?
-What metas would this be right for? What do y'all consider to currently be the risks and benefits of running a "Dreaded" list?

...Maybe this will be interesting to someone. On the other hand, feel free to tear it apart, as long as you make an intelligent, reasonably polite argument.

EDIT: Shapesharer seems fucking insane against Reanimator, and I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned this before... Thoughts?

[lordofthepit]

So, all this talk of testing builds without Standstill has me thinking of trying out an old variation one more time. Ch-ch-check it out:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Shapesharer
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Merfolk Sovereign

4 Aether Vial
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
12 Island

Pretty simple and to the point. I understand that the prevalence of QPM makes Dreadnought much less of a hot look these days, and I concede that this list would probably not do very well versus Bant or Zoo, or other decks who use the Pridemage. On the other hand, I think it might just sneak up on folks as much as it ever has. Many people no longer expect Stifle from us any more, and playing around it essentially wastes the opponent's tempo, so it seems like it could be a strong maindeck in certain metas.

Anyhow, I'll leave the bulk of the theory-crafting to y'all. Here are the questions I have:

-Is this basically what an optimal Dreaded Merfolk maindeck would look like today? Why or why not?
-What metas would this be right for? What do y'all consider to currently be the risks and benefits of running a "Dreaded" list?

...Maybe this will be interesting to someone. On the other hand, feel free to tear it apart, as long as you make an intelligent, reasonably polite argument.

EDIT: Shapesharer seems fucking insane against Reanimator, and I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned this before... Thoughts?

If you're going to play Dreadnought-Stifle, I would either add Trickbind, or more prefably, reduce the Dreadnought count. Stifle is a live card without Dreadnought, but Dreadnought is dead without Stifle barring very fringe cases (Dredge).

[Guevera59]

Hey guys,

Yesterday I placed 13th at the SCG 5k in Philadelphia with a record of 7-2. Here's my list followed by a short tourney report.


Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord Of Atlantis
2 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept

Instants
4 Daze
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force Of Will

Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Legendary Creatures
2 Kira, Great Glass-spinner

Basic Lands
12 Island

Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Relic Of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
4 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge

R1: NOBant, 2-1. Kira + Commander destroys them.
R2: Some monoblack variant, 1-2. He triple Engineered Plague's me and I cant recover
R3: NOBant, 2-0. Submerge out of the board is a rapestorm and Kira protects my guys from his StPs/PtEs
R4: Charbelcher piloted by Parcher, 2-1. He beats me quickly game 1 but I bring in Pierces and Hydroblasts/BeB. I am able to keep Xantid swarm off the table while keeping significant pressure.
R5: Elves!, 2-1. Terrible player. I should have lost this match but he made sooo many play mistakes. Submerge was MVP.
R6: BR Goblins, 0-2. G1 is close but only because he mulled to 5. In both games Piledriver absolutely destroyed me.
R7: Zoo, 2-1. He beats me G1, I win G2 solely b/c of Jittes. G3 I win the attrition war because of Kira and the fact that I play so many threats.
R8:Reanimator, 2-0. I play a 1st turn Vial. He stupidly Reanimates an Iona naming blue allowing me to race him with LoA and some Mutavaults. G2 is similar except I also have a Crypt to help seal the deal.
R9: UW Merfolk. He beats me G1. G2 he plays a second turn LoA and I drop a bunch of silvergills and eventually a Reejerey. His LoA allows me to race him, I also Jitte'd him. G3 He is mana screwed and I can race him. He never sees double blue.

Points on the deck:
Cutting Standstill was the best decision I've made for the deck. The sheer density of creatures is absurd. Kira is incredible and I urge you all to test him with Commander. Commander is a great stand alone threat and won me many games single-handedly. I need to work on my SB, I literally had 0 cards for the mirror and 4 spell pierces is too many.

Props:
-Placing in the money! My best tournament place to date.
-Playing with and talking to so many incredible magic players.
-Trading for a Foil Portuguese Mutavault
-Getting at least 8 Gearhart hi-fives

Slops:
-Guy in the final round asking me to concede to him so he could have enough REL points to make it the All-Star tourney. Why put me in that position?
-Douchey Reanimator player
-Getting up at 5 in the morning for the Nova to Phillie trip.
-One of my teammates getting poor match-ups sending him into time at least 3 matches.

[atropos]

Points on the deck:
Cutting Standstill was the best decision I've made for the deck. The sheer density of creatures is absurd. Kira is incredible and I urge you all to test him with Commander. Commander is a great stand alone threat and won me many games single-handedly.

I've been reading this thread a lot more, thinking of picking up Merfolk again. It seems that recently some people have been talking about removing Standstill in place of more dudes. This seems like it could work but obviously leaves the deck without any card advantage engine (besides Silvergill Adept). What's the consensus on Standstill?

I've tested with Kira and it's absolutely nuts but haven't played with Commander yet. Congrats on your finish, Guevera!

[danyul]

@Guevera59 - grats on the finish. I was thinking about taking a list similar to yours to the 5k in Seattle this Sunday. Just a quick question though. Was the lack of synergy between Kira and Jitte in the maindeck ever a problem for you? Also, Countertop variants are very popular in the Seattle area and I expect alot of them at the 5k. Do you think I should pack any special goodies for those decks or do versions like yours (no Standstill, 12+ lords) already have a pretty good matchup for Countertop decks?

[akiratheoni]

Congrats on the finish :) I myself am considering cutting Standstill in favor of more 'folk since my meta tends to be more aggro and a topdecked Commander should be more useful than a topdecked Standstill. How do the extra Coralhelms do against Zoo? I see that you won your matchup, but it always seems like Zoo has so much removal for me that Kira and the Coralhelm literally do nothing for me =/ Maybe I will test out the extra Coralhelms this weekend if I can pick some up.

[Purgatory]

@Guevera59: Congratulations on your finish, well done! I have a small question regarding your decklist; did you ever find the clash between Kira and Jitte to be troublesome? Whenever I've tested both in the same list, even with one or both in the sideboard, I've found them to cause trouble together.

[Guevera59]

I think that throughout the course of the day, disynergy b/t Jitte and Kira only mattered once. Many times I've either already had it equipped before dropping Kira or, I was content with spending 4 mana to equip since a Jitte'd creature that's protected by Kira is insane good.

Although I beat Zoo, I think it was because of his list. For some reason, he boarded in Vexing Shusher which I did not care about in the slightest because I boarded out my Forces. Also, he may not have drawn them but he never cast a Grim Lavamancer.

@ Danyul

We already have an excellent MU vs. Bant. Especially with Kira and Submerge out of the board.

[Dark Ritual]

Actually dreadnought, on its own (without stifle), can function with aether vial quite nicely if your hand is flooded with multiple copies of dreadnought. Here's how:

Play a dreadnought with 1 mana
In response to dreadnought's enter the battlefield trigger, vial in another dreadnought. Sack the first dreadnought you hardcasted to the one you just vialed in and voila, you have a 12/12 trampling beatstick.

Removing standstill seems iffy but depending on the metagame you play in removing standstill is correct. Standstill can sometimes be a dead draw whereas CCommander is rarely a dead draw, same with other creatures. Cons would be weakening the combo MU against ANT specifically where standstill is a house, allowing you to draw a lot of cards to find answers to their combo while you beat them down with fish.

[Tru3z3rox]

Actually dreadnought, on its own (without stifle), can function with aether vial quite nicely if your hand is flooded with multiple copies of dreadnought. Here's how:

Play a dreadnought with 1 mana
In response to dreadnought's enter the battlefield trigger, vial in another dreadnought. Sack the first dreadnought you hardcasted to the one you just vialed in and voila, you have a 12/12 trampling beatstick.

Removing standstill seems iffy but depending on the metagame you play in removing standstill is correct. Standstill can sometimes be a dead draw whereas CCommander is rarely a dead draw, same with other creatures. Cons would be weakening the combo MU against ANT specifically where standstill is a house, allowing you to draw a lot of cards to find answers to their combo while you beat them down with fish.

@Dreadnought
I don't like it in the deck. Our lords are already synergistic enough that they don't need a huge fattie to combo with. It takes away card spaces from other control cards

@Standstill
I've had it out for an extra sovereign and 3 spell pierce for a while now. I'm becoming more and more OK with it as time pass. If there was a less conditional draw engine for merfolk then I'd put it back, but for now adepts are enough for me.

[Tru3z3rox]

Also would you guys run a 3/3 split between sovereign and commander or should I take out 1 of 3 spell pierce for him?

[kinglear]

Been lurking here a while and had a question for you guys with more experience in the deck than me. The one thing that stands out to me in guevera's write up is that he didn't miss standstill at all. Why not replace with cold eye selkie? You get another threat and potential card advantage in one. In addition it isn't conditional like standstill. It advances your board, has a relevant creature type and evasion (especially in legacy). I can see it clogging the 3 drop spot, but it provides double duty.