[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[martyr]

Please read the last 10 or so pages of the thread. Moat replacement questions come up every 3-5 pages. Humility is bad for the deck MAINDECK if you are one of the people who just play everything. There are times where it just shuts off your entire draw engine because you haven't drawn presences. It can also be a dead draw in some matchups, including combo matchups where you REALLY cannot afford them.

Obviously it's not the ideal, traditional roadblock against aggro for the maindeck, but as mentioned Pridemage, Emrakul, Trygon Predator etc all see a fair amount of play and shutting off half your draw engine seems a fair trade for not auto-losing to two of those creatures and having a much harder time against fliers.

I was just asking for his specific opinion, based on the metagame he saw at a recent, large tournament. It wasn't a question solely about a budget replacement, it was a serious inquiry as to the viability of adding a Humility to the main to fight new threats.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Obviously it's not the ideal, traditional roadblock against aggro for the maindeck, but as mentioned Pridemage, Emrakul, Trygon Predator etc all see a fair amount of play and shutting off half your draw engine seems a fair trade for not auto-losing to two of those creatures and having a much harder time against fliers.

I was just asking for his specific opinion, based on the metagame he saw at a recent, large tournament. It wasn't a question solely about a budget replacement, it was a serious inquiry as to the viability of adding a Humility to the main to fight new threats.

So Humility instead of Moat or alongside? I'd rather run Moat personally and between Sterling Groves and O Rings take care of everything else. If I had a list that already has Moat it'd be really, really, hard to talk me into Humility over another O Ring. Sometimes Humility is bad news bears for you as well, and last time I checked I still win most of my games by ramping through a good 40+ cards in my deck, so shutting off my cheapest, hardest to kill draw engine seems like a bad trade. Most things Humility is going to answer perhaps should be answered by other cards. Example, Grove owns Pridemage, O Ring owns Emrakul, Halo owns Predator, all cards we run anyways. The only decks I can think of where I'd ever really want Humility in pre G2 would be certain Survival builds and decks that cheat Emrakul into play with haste or hardcast him (otherwise I'd rather answer with Ring or Karakas).

I'd never completely discount Humility from a SB just because there are several matches where it more or less shuts them down, but I'm still a long way from putting them in MD and I think that might be a little hasty at this point. Granted we all see the GP top 8 clear as day, and we know many players are blindly buying Show And Tell as we speak with Starcity pulled up on their computer screen ready to copy decklists card for card, but we need to keep our eyes on the brass ring here. The straightest line between us and victory is drawing lots of cards and locking the game long enough to win. Humility shuts down 1/2 our draw engine and it's only really worth it vs. a handful of decks. We already run silver bullets to handle problem creatures. The 3 most important creatures to answer are Pridemage, Trygon, and Emrakul, then several fringe creatures like Iona, Painter's Servant, yada yada. We already run Groves, Replenishs, O Rings, Runed Halos, and Karakas in most builds which all answer our most likely offenders. If your worried about Trygon and Emrakul I'd suggest more O Rings, Pridemage is a dick but I don't think adding another 1x Answer to our 4x Groves is going to make the difference. If they draw him either you have the Grove when he is ready to break or you don't, all the more reason to quickly draw through your deck with Argothian.

[caiomarcos]

About Humility (I'm sure it was mentioned before, but not in the last couple pages), it also shuts down one of your kills. Sigil of the Empty Throne does not look so sexy when it becomes a much worse Sacred Mesa.

I've got Moat a while ago, when it was not worth a small car, but still I played with both maindeck, then moved Humility to the sideboard and now it keeps getting in and out of my board, depending on my feel of the meta. Now I'm seeing more and more SnT/Emrakul around here so I'm sure humility will be an important piece in my sideboard.

[martyr]

I kind of hate your answers, but thanks for being clear and well thought out. Looks like I'll be trading up pretty hard the next few weeks =/

I would be super gun-shy about not including at least one Humility in the board, though. Trygon scares the crap out of me, thought it probably shouldn't so much.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I kind of hate your answers, but thanks for being clear and well thought out. Looks like I'll be trading up pretty hard the next few weeks =/

I would be super gun-shy about not including at least one Humility in the board, though. Trygon scares the crap out of me, thought it probably shouldn't so much.

In my experience Trygon is not nearly as common as you make it sound. I'd be more concerned with Emrakul personally.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

If you're worried about hasty Emrakul, Sacred Ground might be an option; the damage can be prevented by Confinement/Halo, after all, so it's the annihilator that we're chiefly worried about, yes? And we run Sacred Ground in the SB anyway, it's cheap, and it has other applications.

Also, Trygon still gets answered by Grove, and is a full turn slower than Pridemage. If they have a Hierarch, then it's the same speed. Either way, it's the same problem, but with less pressure than Zoo puts on.

[Infinitium]

Curiosity speaking, has there been any discussion about maining Leyline? Granted it's dead in the water against certain decks, but that can be said for any control element you run and it does shut down burn, edicts, discard and tendrils etc and plays well with Serra's Sanctum, and the poor topdeck is somewhat mitigated by the amount of draw this deck runs.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Unless it's a really weird meta I don't think Leyline fits in the MD. It's just not good vs. most decks that play Force of Will and those are some of our tougher matchups.

[addaro]

Hi guys,

could someone pls explain why do people run Dovescape in SB? Whats the theory behind it? What MUs do I side it in and why? I get the part that Enchantress can "overpower" the opponent by playing more noncreature spells but it seems to me more complicated than just create 4/4 angels... There must be something Im not understanding...

Thanks :)

[Darkenslight]

Hi guys,

could someone pls explain why do people run Dovescape in SB? Whats the theory behind it? What MUs do I side it in and why? I get the part that Enchantress can "overpower" the opponent by playing more noncreature spells but it seems to me more complicated than just create 4/4 angels... There must be something Im not understanding...

Thanks :)

Because Sigil says 'When you cast an enchantment spell'. Dovescape may counter the enchantment, but you get a lot of 1/1s AND 4/4s.

[waSP]

There are some matches where having your opponent being unable to resolve spells means you auto-win (even without an Enchantress effect). So basically: slow combo decks, blue control decks, board control decks, aggro decks with very few creatures. It's especially great if you're running Enlightened Tutor to be able to go get it quickly for cheap once you have sufficient mana.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Any deck that doesn't damage you until they have basically won the game is Dovescape bait. You will win the Dovescape race 9/10 times.

[sa17dk]

So I've been testing Chrome Mox and Runed Halo and these are some of my thoughts:

1. I tried running 2 Chrome Mox and I hardly drew them when they were relevant (i.e. the first 2 turns). When I went up to 3 I found them just the right amount of times to power out what I needed those first three turns but it was painful having to pitch cards to them. Sure, they were nice when I was going off with two enchantress effects on the board but at that point I was winning anyway. Not to mention they are horrible topdecks and dont replace themselves for free like Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth do when you have an enchantress on the board. I'm going to try testing ESG and Lotus Petal which brings me to Runed Halo.

2. It's hard casting WW. The WW makes the deck feel more white heavy than it actually is. I'll admit Runed Halo has been pretty nice randomly, but since I hate fetching nonbasics, getting the WW for Runed Halo is a pain. If it weren't for cards like Runed Halo or Aura of Silence (which I dont maindeck because I use Seal of Primordium) I would never have to fetch a dual land. I usually only have two white sources at most on board (a Utopia Sprawl naming white and a plains) and one of those is always used for casting Sterling Groves and Oblivion Rings. However I dont feel comfortable cutting it which is why I've cut the Taiga and replaced it with a Plateau :) Perhaps when I try out the Lotus Petals I'll have a better experience.

[wcm8]

I've been testing a list that so far has been doing quite well for me.

Toolbox Enchantress:

20 Lands:
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
2 Serrah's Sanctum
2 Plains
8 Forest

28 Essentials:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sterling Grove
2 Solitary Confinement
2 Replenish

2 Win-Conditions:
1 Words of War
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

10 Toolbox set:
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Moat
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ground Seal
1 City of Solitude
1 Blood Moon
1 Noetic Scales
2 Oblivion Ring

(1 oblivion ring could be cut for some other relevant silver-bullet, I like the answer-everything aspect of it. I also think 1 Wild Growth and 1 Elephant Grass could possibly be cut for other things as well.)

Because you have 6 tutors and a superior card drawing engine, finding the answers you need to a particular opponent is not that difficult. You sacrifice redundancy for utility, but I think it's a fair trade-off given the nature of the deck.

The questionable inclusions are MD Blood Moon, the singleton Leyline, and Noetic Scales, and only 2 win-conditions. Blood Moon is so good against a huge swath of Legacy decks. It totally screws one deck (43 lands), punishes greedy mana-bases (practically every Legacy deck that isn't mono-colored), makes Brainstorm/Counterbalance far less good by getting rid of free shuffling via fetchlands, and messes up utility and combo lands (Rishadan port, Shelldock Isle, various man-lands, etc.).

The Leyline has been proving itself very beneficial game 1, even when its not in the opening seven. Leyline + Moat = win against some decks, and doesn't require the draw engine to sustain itself like Solitary Confinement does. Depending on board position, sometimes this is a better card to fetch up than Confinement. I found myself boarding in 4 Leylines in a huge amount of matches, so having one in the main doesn't seem to hurt too much. It also shuts down Jace, which seems to be gaining a lot of popularity.

Noetic Scales is fetchable with Enlightened Tutor, and with the insane card drawing Enchantress has, seeing it in a game isn't usually too difficult after you get your engine going. Along with Karakas, it provides an answer to Iona, Emrakul, and Progenitus -- reactively and preemptively. It can also occasionally force aggro decks to start building their board over -- at the very least, it can often bounce Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, Countryside Crusher, pumped up Merefolk and even Goyf.

Enchantress often has the opponent simply scoop after you establish a lock, and actually dealing 20 is often a formality. Reducing the win conditions to two seems fine, as even if they get countered you have a backup plan with Replenish (often supported by City of Solitude). I also typically hate seeing them early in game, as I'd much rather prefer to work on the deck's goal of establishing a lock rather than going for a quick kill. If you know how the deck works, going to time isn't usually a concern unless you are facing another control deck. You do open yourself to being blown out by Sadistic Sacrament and other cards like it, but then you're going to be siding in Leylines against those sorts of decks anyways.

The SB is heavily meta-dependent, but here's what I run:
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Aura of Silence
2 Choke
1 Replenish
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 City of Solitude
1 Sacred Ground
1 Karmic Justice
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Lignify

I have not really missed Runed Halo that much. Everything that it does is done better by the other cards in the deck.

edit: I may have to try Dovescape in the sideboard. I'd also be curious to see the lists that made day two and see what sort of tech they used.

[caiomarcos]

What is that Noetic Scales for? What does it do that Grass, Moat, Confinement don't take care already?

[waSP]

The writer was concerned about Iona, Emrakul, and Progenitus. It handles all of those cards extremely well.

[caiomarcos]

The writer was concerned about Iona, Emrakul, and Progenitus. It handles all of those cards extremely well.

Thanks, reading is tech!

[sa17dk]

Did some testing with a group of legacy players and here are my thoughts:

1. I'm definitely replacing Moat with Humility. The deck has no problem dealing with swarms of creatures. If they want to pay 2 mana to swing with a 1/1 and tie up their resources, that makes me ecstatic. If my metagame had more Zoo or Goblins and whatnot then I would definitely keep the Moat in, but my meta is enamored with dropping Emrakul and creatures that just ruin my day. I found myself siding out Moat and bringing in the Ghostly Prison I was testing from the SB very often.

2. Survival + Loyal Retainers + Anger + Emrakul + Toolbox creatures is hard to deal with. I dont know how to deal with a Hasted Emrakul.

3. Lotus Petals were pretty awesome for me all day. I only ran two but I never wished they were Chrome Mox or ESG.

4. I'm dropping the Runed Halo count to one (in the MD). They were a bit underwhelming. Oblivion Ring on the other hand was a life-saver.

5. I think I might want to run one Enlightened Tutor. I'm not sure.

6. I want to try Blood Moon in the main.

7. I dropped my win condition count to two (one Sigil and one WoW) and I was very happy with it. I had some close games where it took me a bit longer to find a win condition to close the game out, but I definitely loved not seeing them early.


I think all I proved was that Enchantress is a very metagame dependent deck and that your silver bullets are going to need to be picked accordingly.

[slaughtercult]

Running this lately. My local meta is mostly control, hense the maindeck choke and such.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Runed Halo
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Elephant Grass
1 City Of Solitude
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sterling Grove
2 Replenish
1 Ground Seal
1 Sigil Of The Empty Throne
1 Words Of War
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn

7 Forest
4 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctum

Sideboard:
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Choke
1 Blood Moon
2 Runed Halo
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Karmic Justice
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Aura Of Silence

I'm having great results (still) with Emrakul against control, Hypergenesis and Show & Tell decks as it either nullifies their Emrakul or trumps whatever they happen to 'flash' into play. I'm saving the money for a Moat to replace one of the Solitary Confinements. I also want to squeeze another E. Tutor in the main. What would be good to cut for it? I was thinking one Runed Halo, but they shut down so many strategies...

[sa17dk]

Any reason for cutting the 3rd Replenish in the board?