[Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

[DerFern]

I played PSI for the first time yesterday at our local tournament (12 players, 4 rounds) and went 3-1, ending up third. My only loss was against Ninja-Faeries-Fish-whatever.dec with FoW, Daze, Sprites, Standstill, Stifle and postboard Spellpierce, Mage, everything-he-needed. Even boarding the 15card sideboard from a few pages back did not help me at all since I played the guy several times before and he knew I would bring Xantid Swarm. So no chance of winning here...
I guess I only made one major play mistake when I did not pool UB with manamorphose to evoke my Slithermuse on turn one (with Storm 6) against Zoo. Anyway, I won that match, because... you know... it was Zoo.

After testing the deck last friday I was kind of unsure if this is the right deck for me but these doubts are gone. It plays kind of like Belcher but is more versatile and it is so much fun to chain more and more D4s into each other.

Some questions, though:
-is there an update to the sideboard against blue.dec? I boarded 15 cards yesterday and had the Belcherkill quite fast. Anyway, since I boarded those Tomb of Urami, I fizzled with Belcher twice. I don´t think this is the best way when our main kill condition postboard is Belcher, especially since Land Grant won´t find the Tomb.
-any idea, how we could squeeze some enchantment or artifact removal into our board? There were two guys yesterday who had Leyline of Sanctity in their board. There is nothing we can do against that...
-is it just me or is the Staxx-matchup horrible?! We tested a whole lot of games against PSI and it was nearly unwinnable. Chalice 0 really ruins our day.

[Vacrix]

You don't have to board in all 15 cards but I feel more comfortable doing so against decks like New Horizons where my first Belcher target can be my opponent's only fatty, as you are usually only dealing with 1, sometimes 2, then go for the throat on the next Belch. You won't always have that luxury, though, and those Tomb of Urami slots could just as easily be EtW considering you are boarding in Carpet of Flowers.. and we now have access to a new Mox as well. In fact, I'll probably start testing that new config in the near future. Either way, Faerie's and ninja's are usually a very slow clock. Tomb of Urami is strong here as it serves as a wall to let you set up your Belcher kill. I haven't had trouble beating these decks.
Tomb is great against Stax, Merfolk, and discard.

Squeeze what you like into your board to adapt to your metagame. I don't encounter many bears or permanent based removal in my metagame because its very combo light (I'm basically the only combo player) so I haven't bothered with permanent removal. You can easily fit in a few Nature's Claim and I would advise that you do this if you are having to deal with Leyline or something. Also, EtW really looks like a great SB contender at the moment and that happens to also be an answer to Leyline.
Stax is bad as its pretty good against combo in general, but we are fast enough that Stax has to get either Chalice at 1 or Trinisphere to beat us. If you want in a heavy, heavy stax metagame, you could board in more Bayous and Seeds of Innoncence. You can play around Chalice @ 0 sometimes with Land Grants and ESG's. Tomb of Urami is also good here as it provides you with more starting mana to reach 3 to blow Trinisphere, or go for a 4 turn clock.

EDIT:
For the record, double Mox Opal isn't as horrible as we might think at first glance. The 2nd Mox still gives you +1 Storm and +2 cards to the graveyard to support Cabal Ritual.

[jandax]

Would Phyrexian Walker/Shield Sphere up the value of Opals in such a deck? I know you can't chain mana due to the Legendary rule but as said it still ups the storm count and feeds thingies in the graveyard. Also it depends on what list one is running.

I've build SITES and am practicing with that particular build but it'd be good to hear others' opinions on where it could benefit

[Vacrix]

Absolutely, tallmen make Opal playable more often, though I think that Mox will often in non-tallmen lists just function as a Lotus Petal, as we can play out Mox Opal, Lotus Petal, LED, and then we only have Mox Opal remaining afterwards. No problems there though as it provides us with any color meaning initial Black for rituals, initial green for Xantid/Carpet, initial red for EtW, or initial blue for Slithermuse.

It definitely looks strong in SITES and even QSI.



Aside, Dark Ritual (or Barl, Artificer on MTGS) and 7H0R (MTGS) have come up with a pretty good variation on Iranon's GSI that runs Reprocess as an out to take advantage of tallmen as well as used Bayous, and Mox Opals. This is the most updated but still underoptimized list we are working with:

GSI
Creatures - 16
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Ornithopter

Business - 15
1 Reprocess
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Glimpse of Nature

Mana - 29
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
2 Bayou

Its business light (15), but Diabolic Intent is much stronger than IT as you don't need hellbent to get the engine going, and Reprocess is tech with the rest of the deck. Its far worse against Chalice at 0, and it lacks ESG to play around Daze, but Mox Opal is going to be extremely powerful and we can block aggro all day long if we need to set up, making more G1 opening 7's keepable against aggro.

The post-board will be difficult to configure as the maindeck synthesis pretty much needs every piece for it to work. Ideas??

[Gocho]

In my tests with a similar list, Glimpse doesn't seem a good card because I can't get more than 2 creatures to use it. 3 if I have luck. But I don't play Bargain.

I like Reprocess, I must try it, but I think that Diminishing Returns could give you more cards than Reprocess. Same cost, but U. How many cards do you draw with it in your tests?

My last approach is Retract and Hurkyl. You play 27 0cc artifacts (and can up the count with others) so you can reach lethal storm with a single Retract easily.

[Dark Ritual]

I find storm count to never be an issue with this list of SI. I find that I am usually drawing a lot of cards off of glimpse or just the cruel bargain's and the thing about the list is that you can play every single card in the list on the combo turn land grant later on is a dead card however you can simply play the land grant to up the storm count since the list lacks chrome mox due to all the artifact cards being dissynergystic with chrome mox. Mox opal is pretty much strictly better in the glimpse list I'm developing; I never have trouble with its metalcraft drawback and it being legendary hasn't been a problem and I am running 4. Reprocess helps it as well; tapping it for mana then sacking it to draw a card off reprocess is golden because you'll probably draw at least 3 artifacts when you cast reprocess. I like the singleton reprocess I wouldn't add more though. AN is an interesting idea but if you cast a D4 then you cast AN it is risky since you are at 10 or less life. Sure you could go nuts with it sometimes but sometimes it could be a weak card in your hand.

Diminishing returns is a lot worse in the GSI list I'm developing than reprocess. I have drawn more than 7 cards sometimes due to the fact with an active glimpse they essentially cycle for 0 mana due to all creatures costing 0 mana in the list. There is some dissynergy I have sometimes encountered between all the sacrifice effects for tallmen and reprocess; if you are just starting the spell chain and use culling the weak to get to the mana needed to cast reprocess you usually don't have a lot of dudes on board. But like you said vacrix mid to late in the spell chain the card is a monster that can draw you so much cards it isn't even funny. I also love how good diabolic intent is in the GSI list. It is exactly like demonic tutor because you always have dudes to sack to it that cost 0 mana. Same with culling the consistency is incredible and when you are always able to cast those cards I find you can tendrils for 20 very easily. Heck I can lethal tendrils someone after just one D4 off of diabolic intent and some mana accel which is amazing in the GSI list; there is so much mana in there you can get to 6 mana very easily to go diabolic intent -> tendrils you after any amount of draw be it glimpse, reprocess, or just good old D4's.

There is only one problem with the list thus far. Being able to cast glimpse mid combo. For that we have mox opal and lotus petal, both 4 ofs or land grant -> bayou if we haven't gotten our land for the turn yet. Infernal tutor is bad in the GSI list because you can't get hellbent without LED very easily due to us lacking chrome mox you can sometimes get stuck with a glimpse of nature in hand due to being unable to cast it.

If we cut tallmen for other things I'd be all for trying -2 memnite +2 elvish spirit guide. Elvish guide can sometimes act as a tall woman if you have tons of mana or it can be useful midcombo to play another glimpse to draw even more cards.

Also on diminishing returns. It costs blue mana and this sometimes matters if you don't go diabolic intent sacking LED in response or if you draw it off a D4 or something you can usually not cast it until you get petal and opal whereas reprocess you can play off of rituals very easily. Retract and hurkyl's recall are nice for generating lots of storm and CA with an active glimpse but also require blue mana. Hurkyl's might be a really good SB option though; board in a tropical island or two and it acts as anti hate as well as a really good draw spell after you have dealt with their hate be it chalice, 3sphere, or sphere effects like thorn of amethyst, sphere or resistance, etc. etc.

[Vacrix]

Do we have any data yet on GSI? I'm curious...

Also, I'm brainstorming different lists for those interested:

GSI
Creatures - 12
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker

Business - 15
1 Reprocess
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Slithermuse
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Glimpse of Nature

Mana - 33
3 Manamorphose
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Wild Cantor

Just my thoughts put to words. I have no idea if this is good or not but the thought intrigues me. Its not even really SI anymore because it lacks D4's but it has a similar acceleration base. Thoughts?

[Jodahae]

Im trying to come up with a few cards that might fit the board to deal with artifacts and enchantments, primarily Counterbalance and Chalice of the void/trinisphere, currently im going back and forth between natures claim as a default answer to both, and reverent silence as a solo enchantment answer.

Claim is great if im not looking at a chalice at 1 and if there a balance but no top, and obviously silence has been stellar for cb/top but im more open to artifact hate

Wondering what others are trying and if anyone has had any success with seal of primordium, its a heaver mana investment but its a little harder to hit for cb/top and its a permanent for stax.

Thanks

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Just curious, who believes Memnite is a better choice for the slot than Ornithopter? What's the difference, why is one better than the other. Any debate on it?

Also, I've been looking and can't seem to find a PSI list or a Null Profusion SI list. I'm wanting to try them both out to see which is the "best" in my opinion. Is Glimpse SI a pretty solid choice? I'm trying to find out how the lists operate so I can make my own version, but I keep coming up short on acceptable lists to test with.

I've tried:

8 Draw-4 version
12 Draw-4 version (Blue added for Meditate)
4 Draw-4 version with Diabolic Intents instead of Draw-4's 5-8

I hate the 12 draw-4 version, 8 draw-4 version got me bolted pretty much every time I tried to win with it, and I was moderately happy with the heavy tutor version, but it's not a very solid list IMO. Any help is appreciated.

-ABC

[DarthVicious]

Any one test Sundering Vitae in a list with more tallmen? Seems like it could be free to cast with enough in play. The only thing it doesn't really help against is Trinisphere.

I think Nature's Claim may be better though.

[Iranon]

Personally, I love the combination of draw-4s and Glimpse - you can very often draw the entire deck without the need for heavier tools.

[Dark Ritual]

I like deconstruct more than sundering vitae because it is always free if it resolves. I also find enchantments to usually not be of much annoyance due to the speed of PSI sure if countertop is established with mana up you want something to kill enchantments but it shouldn't get to that point.

[DarthVicious]

I like deconstruct more than sundering vitae because it is always free if it resolves.

Good call, forgot about that card. It's even free if it's destroying Trinisphere, which is probably the reason the card would be in the board in the first place. Can also be used to destroy tapped Opals so you can play another one untapped. Along with stuff like Chalices... and... you know, other artifacts.

[TheSleeper]

Memnite vs. Ornithopter is interesting, I would have thought the 'thopter got the nod though. Ability to block flying > a 1/1. Unless you are facing a control deck where you can get in two points of damage, reducing your required storm count to 9.. but we want to go off before turn 3 usually or we'd be playing a different deck.

[kicks_422]

Do we have any data yet on GSI? I'm curious...

Also, I'm brainstorming different lists for those interested:

GSI
Creatures - 12
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker

Business - 15
1 Reprocess
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Slithermuse
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Glimpse of Nature

Mana - 33
3 Manamorphose
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Wild Cantor

Just my thoughts put to words. I have no idea if this is good or not but the thought intrigues me. Its not even really SI anymore because it lacks D4's but it has a similar acceleration base. Thoughts?

Why the 4 Slithermuse? I'd like to hear your reasoning for that, over say, a a Draw 4... As well as why only one of each of Tendrils and Belcher. Also... no land?

[Vacrix]

Theory
This variant is business light (15) and has an easy time emptying its hand. Slithermuse allows you to refill your hand like a D7 and for an initial investment of 1 more than a D4, you can draw 1-3 more cards. It also contributes to Glimpse if you've already played it. Finding U shouldn't be hard with access to so much colorfixing.
Tendrils and Belcher only need to be 1'ofs because Diabolic Intent is so flexible. No-land makes Belcher a much stronger WC. A landless build intrigues me.

Memnite vs Ornithopter. I don't know how often that extra damage will really matter, but it does even out the fetchland lifeloss rather nicely.

To tell the truth, GSI intrigued me at first, but these Glimpse-focused variants are probably too volatile to be viable.

Sundering Vitae vs. Nature's Claim vs. Deconstruct
Deconstruct is only 'free' if you can hit 3 mana, provided you can also spend GGG which isn't always easy in PSI as most spells cost B and post-board colorfixing dilutes the deck.
Sundering Vitae might cost less but you have to run tallmen. I like that it dodges Chalice at 1 and CB unless they have 3 ontop. Good find.
Nature's Claim is a good answer if you know you will be running into something like Ethersworn Cannonist, Thorn of Amythest, CB, or Trinisphere. Its bad if you are dealing with Chalice at 1 or Gaddock Teeg. For the record, I've played Dark Ritual, had my opponent look at the top of his library with Top, can't find 1, Tap Top, I respond with Nature's Claim, proceed to win.

@Secretly.A.Bee
There is a PSI list in the primer. I don't have a Null Profusion list at the moment because I found them to be too volatile.

[DarthVicious]

Theory
This variant is business light (15) and has an easy time emptying its hand. Slithermuse allows you to refill your hand like a D7 and for an initial investment of 1 more than a D4, you can draw 1-3 more cards. It also contributes to Glimpse if you've already played it. Finding U shouldn't be hard with access to so much colorfixing.
Tendrils and Belcher only need to be 1'ofs because Diabolic Intent is so flexible. No-land makes Belcher a much stronger WC. A landless build intrigues me.

Memnite vs Ornithopter. I don't know how often that extra damage will really matter, but it does even out the fetchland lifeloss rather nicely.

To tell the truth, GSI intrigued me at first, but these Glimpse-focused variants are probably too volatile to be viable.

Sundering Vitae vs. Nature's Claim vs. Deconstruct
Deconstruct is only 'free' if you can hit 3 mana, provided you can also spend GGG which isn't always easy in PSI as most spells cost B and post-board colorfixing dilutes the deck.
Sundering Vitae might cost less but you have to run tallmen. I like that it dodges Chalice at 1 and CB unless they have 3 ontop. Good find.
Nature's Claim is a good answer if you know you will be running into something like Ethersworn Cannonist, Thorn of Amythest, CB, or Trinisphere. Its bad if you are dealing with Chalice at 1 or Gaddock Teeg. For the record, I've played Dark Ritual, had my opponent look at the top of his library with Top, can't find 1, Tap Top, I respond with Nature's Claim, proceed to win.

I'm testing a build with only 1 Dryad Arbor as a land, and I don't use it as a land. I use it as a 0cc Pactable tallman. I'm not running Land Grant, and I don't intend to.

At first I also wanted to run a Glimpse list, but I discovered without a resolved Glimpse, those creatures kinda sit around and don't accomplish anything. Just about anybody who's seen just about any Glimpse-based list is going to counter it when they see it.

I have Pacts, Spheres, Cantor, Arbor, and rarely Spirit Guides and Witness to use as tallmen. Postboard Confidant and Xantid can join the cast list. Vitae would probably not cost less for me to play when I would want to play it, but then again I have been noticing there are times when I wish I had a creature or two in play. I may need to put the Walkers back in, or a Tukatongue.

While fishing I noticed that I almost never went for Slithermuse. I either had the mana and stormcount for Tendrils, or I went for Belcher and passed the turn. I know thats not always the best thing to do considering they get a full turn to deal with Belcher, but I'm also still getting used to the deck.

I'm liking Infernal Tutor somewhat, then again I'm heavy on business still. I wish there was another black ritual I could be running, I'd prolly cut the number of Demonic Tutor wannabes down.

I may include some artifact hate on my board due to CounterTop and Chalice being such a pain, but that's all the changes I'd make to the board. Bob, Belcher, Carpet, Swarm. The reason I chose these cards is they are all threats to control in their own way. I'd rather run threats than answers, although Bob is kinda meh.

Maybe I could add more tallmen along with Songs of the Damned, and replace Bob with Vitae.

...

I can't believe I just suggested Songs of the Damned...

[Vacrix]

Keep in mind that Dryad cannot be a Pactable tallman because it doesn't count toward your Glimpse count; its not a spell.

Exactly. Those creatures can't really do anything without Glimpse. They are just inactive, virtual-street wraiths wasting space. Thats why Iranon didn't have a Glimpse focused list, he simply supplemented the LGSI engine with Glimpse by replacing the protection with more gas. Now that we have access to Mox Opal, we can probably optimize a new list, but its going to take a lot of testing and it will probably still be inferior to PSI in terms of speed because clearly we have to forgo protection for this engine.

I wouldn't worry about Belcher, pass the turn. I do that all the time if I can't go straight for the throat.

Song of the Damned doesn't work as well as advertised, unfortunately. It looks really cool but you rarely have more than 1 dude in your yard most of the time unless you wanted to play with x4 Reprocess, x4 Diabolic Intent or something, which still looks rather volatile.

[DarthVicious]

Keep in mind that Dryad cannot be a Pactable tallman because it doesn't count toward your Glimpse count; its not a spell.

Exactly. Those creatures can't really do anything without Glimpse. They are just inactive, virtual-street wraiths wasting space. Thats why Iranon didn't have a Glimpse focused list, he simply supplemented the LGSI engine with Glimpse by replacing the protection with more gas. Now that we have access to Mox Opal, we can probably optimize a new list, but its going to take a lot of testing and it will probably still be inferior to PSI in terms of speed because clearly we have to forgo protection for this engine.

I wouldn't worry about Belcher, pass the turn. I do that all the time if I can't go straight for the throat.

Song of the Damned doesn't work as well as advertised, unfortunately. It looks really cool but you rarely have more than 1 dude in your yard most of the time unless you wanted to play with x4 Reprocess, x4 Diabolic Intent or something, which still looks rather volatile.

I'm not running Glimpse. I wanted to, but I figured I'd be better off getting used to PactSI and letting my brother find out how terrible his Glimpse Elves homebrew is. I'll update my list I posted on the stormboards when I finally get home from work.

On another note, I tested this a few games against my friends Bant Countertop. When he gets Countertop online turn 2 every time and he always starts the game by Forcing my initial Draw4 it's real fun. However, it was easier for me to play this deck and mindfuck him than it ever was running AdN or DDFT. And it's faster than the TES list I tested.

[Jodahae]

@Vacrix
What ever became of the D7 B/G/R SI variant you and @direlemming where working on, I would be interested to know if any progress has come about?

Has anyone played Multani's Presence to combat CB and Chalice at 0. It seems like a hit or miss card, if it lands against CB it should feed you enough resources to string together a win, and against chalice it would allow you to cycle your dead cards, draw new and increase threshold/storm all at the same time.