Costs 2U. Looks good to me, Better than Broodstar at least. No evasion which kind of sucks but meh.
That will be good in here. If it NEEDS evasion then just put in Whispersilk Cloak instead of the Cranial Plating, as Broodstar + This = not needing something that pumps creatures to high heavens. It also eliminates the fear of StP on your big evasive creatures anyway. That, in my opinion, would be much better. It's even still castable and equippable after Winter Orb because of Mox Diamond.
How well does the deck actually do with only 16 threats? Heck, some seem to only run 14. Is the lockdown engine strong enough to protect the threats from meaningful removal? Do you really find, removing Aether Vial is the correct choice? My experience was that Aether Vial is really a necessity to aggressively take advantage of the lockdown pieces. Furthermore, Aether Vial fixes the manabase, which needs all the fixing it can get especially when you start dropping the number of colored mana sources under 8.
The original intent of the deck was to create an aggressive tempo-based artifact deck that simply fights off the usually troublesome disruption with some stax-components that are cast between dropping threats and winning (Aether Vial being a huge enabler in this regard). These builds seem more and more like Stax - is this an indicator you should just be playing Stax and forget about the Affinity-part? Isn't the ability to win fast and create resilient threats worth it? Stax tries to capitalize on mana disruption by destroying all opponents' lands, Affinity's plan is to kill the opponent while they're struggling with the mana disruption. Are 16- threats really enough to perform this consistently?
Also, Affinity really wants around 40 artifacts for the mechanic, and in that regard, Sphere cannot count since while it's pretty one-sided, it still doesn't reduce the cost of the affinity critters.
as of right now I think your right the deck has to have aether vial, however im putting the deck aside until shards is released.
Jeez. I preach Vial for a month straight, but one outsider on the conversation comes in and mentions it and gets results. Damn.
Anyway, how it happens is irrelevent, only that this deck gets going in the right direction.
If you go the Tangle Wire way, wouldn't Academy Ruins work well? I honestly don't know why it's not been tested yet. Gets you back EVERYTHING from your deck. Lands, creatures, lock pieces. All of it.
I've said this before, but if you include a one-drop, Vial and Disciple are the two most important ones, bar none. I also think Ornithopter now relevent only in the Goblin Matchup, and therefore useful only in the SB if necessary at all. In the goblin matchup, you have just as much chance hitting a Disciple as they do a Goblin Lackey game one. Game 2, you would then have 8x blockers, 4 of which will never fail nor die. Needles would be an answer to Vial. Side out Vials for Needles. Chalice can come out as well in the Goblin Matchup as it's useless (Don't argue this point, if you've played stax or any stompy build, you know this to be true).
I'm still working on a build, I'll post a final one soon. I know I've said this before, but I've been busy (full-time student, part-time employed dad and going through a pretty nasty divorce which is causing me to not be able to sleep, AND I'm moving). Be patient with me, I swear it's worth it.
Pce,
--DC
EDIT::: Maybe now Tombstalker can also become part of the conversation in a serious fashion. My list includes it, perhaps you will like it.
Tombstalker's really relavent after they WOG and you have nothing... and also when you have half a million spheres on the table.
Eh, Tombstalker is too tough on your mana. You barely play enough coloured sources to play out cards with one coloured mana. You'll have many stranded Tombstalkers if you decide to include them - same goes for Broodstar.
Dark_Cynic87: I find the use of the word "outsider" amusing here. I'm guilty as charged as far as the Affinity-thread goes, but I did build the starting point for this particular variant, so not THAT far out.
well, better amusement rather than offense. My mistake. Clearly by "outsider" I mean one who isn't amongst the angst of the development on a serious level.
On the matter of Tombstalker, I don't see why the land couldn't change to accomodate one of the MOST FEARED creatures in the FORMAT. Why not make it more black? Clearly Tombstalker has synergy with the Spheres and with Trini, not to mention DotV is awesome here. I think it's got a spot.
21
4x Tangle Wire
4x Sphere of Resistance
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Trinisphere
4x Winter Orb
3x Cranial Plating
18
4x Disciple
4x Ravager
3x Tombstalker
4x Frogmite
3x Somber Hoverguard
21
3x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
2x Underground Sea
1x Glimmervoid
3x Darksteel Citadel
1x Academy Ruins
Meh, that didn't turn out right. It seems like maybe I'm more into the synergy between Spheres and Stalkers than I am between affinity and such. Maybe I should remove myself from the discussion to work on the Tombstalker+Orb scenario as I'm getting nowhere with this other than in your way...LMK what you think of the list, at least. I hate Chalice, especially when I am such a fan of Disciple...
You'd need over 14 black sources for it to work out. Springleaf Drum, Tomb of Urami, a bunch of UG Seas at the expense of arti lands, etc. could do it, but the price is too high. If we still ran all the Chromatic Spheres, mayhap, but 1) We cannot do that (because of their dissynergy with the balls) and 2) It can't be used with Aether Vial, which is a huge penalty. Really, the initial lists had Dark Confidant and it wasn't at all bad with the Spheres disrupting the opponent while Confidant accrues card advantage. Stalker really doesn't work with the artifact-based plan overall as you can't play N Vaults of Whispers.
Hence my last statement. While I disagree with your claim as to how many black sources is needed, I think that Dark Confidant has a lot more value overall than most cards we've proposed so far.Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
Pce,
--DC
Umm...do you know who Eldariel is? If I recall correctly, he is the first person to actually post the concept of 8-sphere affinity. Hell, I'd call him the father of the deck. We should all be very appreciative. He took time to actually put us back on the right track.Jeez. I preach Vial for a month straight, but one outsider on the conversation comes in and mentions it and gets results. Damn.
For the sake of remembering our roots, here's the list Eldariel gave me over 5 months ago:
// Lands
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
3 [MR] Glimmervoid
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
3 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
// Spells
4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
3 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
4 [DS] AEther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
On another note, the inclusion of M.O.E.? Yay or nay?
My MTG Blog
"The game is not worth the candle."
Umm I think this deck got much better
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=130106
Name Unknown 1U
Artifact Creature - Human Wizard? (Common)
Artifact spells cost you less to play.
1/1?
Yeah, it looks very nice in this deck.
My new list of 8-ball will probably look like this:
Balls: 12
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Winter Orb
Creatures: 20
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Artifact Medallion
4x Frogmite
Stuff: 9
4x Aether Vial
2x Springleaf Drum
3x Cranial Plating
Lands: 19
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
3x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
This isn't affinity, btw. It runs one affinity card. Plays like a very, very aggressive version of aggro-stax with a lot less prison.
peace,
4eak
Sonofa....Shards <3 teh Balls.dec
Ethersworn Canonist
{1}{W}
Artifact Creature -- Human Cleric
2/2
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.
Erayo might be cool again, I don't know.
So many nice cards for 8-ball in this set. Will this deck become good? Maybe. This is like...16 Balls to work with. In a metagame that might revolve around the new AdN TPS builds, this card is a smack in the face.
Trying this build right now:
Balls: 16
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Winter Orb
4x Ethersworn Canonist
Creatures: 19
3x Disciple of the Vault
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Artifact Medallion
4x Frogmite
Stuff: 6
4x Aether Vial
2x Springleaf Drum
Lands: 19
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den
4x Glimmervoid
peace,
4eak
Is there any way to fit Master of Etherium in there. It can be used to apply massive amounts of pressure on an opponent and only costs three. Since our spheres only stall for time, this guy can really make this more aggro controlish, and it says fuck Tarmogoyf nine times out of ten. This guy might be better in AfFOWnity.
Also, how much are you guys missing Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors. In my limited testing awhile ago they seemed to add an explosive edge allowing a turn 1 Sphere to apply pressure on Combo right away. Plus, a turn one sphere pretty much makes a turn 1 kill impossible and allows us to apply pressure and lay down spheres to win. 4eak your list does run Ancient Tomb but how about adding City of traitors, and maybe cutting Disciple of the Vault. It's probably a dumb move but its worth a try.
I would think maybe trying out the following cuts:
Experimental Disciple of the Vaultless build:
-3 Vault of Whisper
+3 City of Traitors
-3 Disciple of the Vault
+3 Master of Etherium
These cuts would make the manabase more stable, since it would be only two colors and add an explosive edge with City of traitors. Also Master of Etherium helps apply more pressure. I would exactly suggest this, but it is something to try out. Might be worth a try.
4eak your list does run Ancient Tomb but how about adding City of traitors, and maybe cutting Disciple of the Vault. It's probably a dumb move but its worth a try.
Hey, get out of my head!!...that's what I'm doing as we speak.
I never liked Disciple in 8-sphere (and you can know that by my post on the first page of this thread). I think swapping Disciple for MoE is the correct call.
City of Traitors is a difficult choice. We have 8-spheres that we must have first turn if possible, while Winter Orb and E-Canon can wait. I honestly just don't like City of Traitors if I don't have Crucible of Worlds and 3-sphere in the deck.
I mourn the loss of actual "affinity" effects in this deck. Seriously, this deck isn't using the affinity mechanic, and that makes me wonder if we should even use artifact lands to begin with.
peace,
4eak
This went from affinity control to...brown.dec. Artifact control. Why not just play 5/3 and add in Master of Etherium? You could call it 9/8 Ball.
You people are about as mad as hatters. Honestly. However, as hats go, I tip mine to you.
I'm officially out of this thread, as it no longer interests me in the direction it's going. Just the same, happy building!
Pce,
--DC
Well right now Vial at 2 looks great, we could add confident or epochrasite.
Since Lodestone Golem has been just spoiled, I think this deck deserves another chance.
Lodestone Golem Casting Cost: 4
Artifact Creature - Golem
Nonartifact spells cost 1 more to cast.
So I keep coming back here... but i really like some of the new toys we got for blue stax. I think this is the most likely place where cards such as Grand Architect and Vedalken Certarch along with tangle wire could end up, twisting this deck into even more of a controlling stax variant. Don't really like the disynergy with 3sphere though. Ultimately, running these creatures may allow us to to do something other stax lists dream about: FoW.
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