I' ve cut the 2nd freeze main deck in order to have space for a 4th Faerie, since this deck is not solidarity and the untap effects are more limited, sometimes 8 won' t be enough, and well having 7 tutors for Brain freeze, you werer right than a single brainfreeze will do the job.
But I still think the 12 cantrips are needed, since we are playing very few lands, and we need a land drop each turn for the first 3/4 at least. Having that many cantrips also helps a lot when goldfishing, and the sinergy between Branstorm and Preordain is insane.
Greetings,
Iñaki.-
I like 6 Fetches, along with 8-10 cantrips.
In the old days it ran that config, and I think it still works.
And Preordain is really bonkers, specially at searching for lands.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
This probably has been talked about and dismissed. But wouldn't Orim's Chant be good? It stops counters and stops removal on your Faeries.
It sucks balls against SB, but odds are you're losing that one anyway.
Depends on wether you consider the white splash worth it. Otherwise, you can always use Defense Grid.Originally Posted by alderon666
In fact, I'd rather splash green for Xantid Swarm, Explore, and Krosan Grip.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =,
, and
.
Ummm, Explore looks funny. Untap a land, makes your Turnabout better and cantrip. A small Frantic Search
But I don't know if them worth the splash. Krosan Grip is similar to Wipe Away to us and I don't think that we need Xantid to beat blue decks.
Time to dust off the old Spring Tide!
How's the matchup against merfolk ??? What are our weapons against the little blue men ?
With mono-blue, we have Defense Grid and Force of Will to push our combo through. If they do manage to counter all the combo attempts, Spring Tide can rebuild really fast using all the draw power it has.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
I playtested some against Merfolk yesterday, went 1-4 (all preboard games). Granted I played a suboptimal build of Spring Tide (no Remand, only 3 Merchant Scroll, and I tried a green splash [which didn't really help me at all]), and the merfolk player had maindeck Spell Snare, in addition to FoW, Daze and Cursecatcher. My problem was really the clock Merfolk put up, forcing me to go off into Daze and Cursecatcher, resulting in fizzling before I could play the first untap-spell.
I believe that with better play from my side in addition to a more optimized main deck this matchup could look rather different. I wouldn't be surprised to see it being close to even, although I have no data to support this.
"Don't let your mind wander - it might not come back." -Braids, dementia summoner
Unfortunately Remand doesn't really help Spring Tide. Of course, 4 Merchant Scroll will help slightly. And wether the green splash is good mainly depends on wether the Merfolk you play uses Wasteland or not.
But in any case, the preboard matchup is going to be like 45-55 at best. Once you get Defense Grid or Xantid Swarm coming in you can turn around the matchup.
The most important thing is to goldfish Spring Tide a bunch. Especially cause it'll help you make better mulligan decisions. Of course, I'd also note that 5 games is not enough to be statistically significant (a 95% confidence interval yields a range of between 4% and 64% for your statistics).
Last edited by ummon; 10-22-2010 at 11:18 PM.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
I am not so sure that we don't want Remand in here vs. Merfolk. It's a good spell to cast turn 2 or 3 to counter a lord. This will often slow down their kill by a whole turn, meaning you get more lands in play or more cards in hand when going for the kill. If they choose to counter the Remand that's one less counter for High Tide, increasing the probability of successfully resolving High Tide with enough mana available to cast an untap effect.
Of course Remand would need to come in instead of something else, and you are right in that the deck is fairly tight already. In addition Remand is 2cc, competing with cantrips and Merchant Scroll pre-combo. Finally Remand doesn't really do anything for us on the combo-turn, except for Brain Freezing with a low storm count. In the end I personally would want to test Remand some before dismissing it.
"Don't let your mind wander - it might not come back." -Braids, dementia summoner
To begin with, Remand is pretty weak against Merfolk, since they will be trying to Vial in the important stuff anyway.
Solidarity can abuse Remand because we do everything in our opponent's end step anyway. Spring Tide needs to work at sorcery speed, so leaving mana open for Remand telegraphs your intention pretty clearly and comes with an opportunity cost (you didn't cast Merchant Scroll, etc). I'm not suggesting the deck should not run counters, just that those counters should be as cheap to cast as possible. Spell Pierce is probably your best bet after FoW.
-Silent Requiem
Just wanted to say I played a Spring Tide deck in a Pauper tournament here today, and it was fucking incredible.
In Legacy, I'm going to try the Pact of Negation aproach, with 4 of those, and 3 FoW, with the last on the SB.
Sinde this deck goes off turn 3, I'm beggining to think this may actually be a good option, given the meta. (no CB)
Against hate-bears we habe Snap, and every other answer Cunning Wish-able, but we don't heve a great answer against 1 Spell Pierce + Daze, and maybe FoW (well, exept from Defense Grid, but I dislike it atm...). Sinde we're trying to go off turn 3-4, those thins can reallly eat all our mana, and 2 FoWs in our side can leave us without enough cards....
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Currently palytesting and goldfishing the following list:
4 High Tide
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Ideas Unbound
2 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
4 Cloud Of Faeries
3 Snap
1 Brain freeze
4 Force Of Will
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
10 Island
Sideboard:
1 Snap
1 Impulse
1 Remand
1 Disrupting Shoal
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Dispel
The sideboard is just a bunch of cards for testing, since i don't know where are some of my cards like hibernation and such.
What i'm noticing is that the 12 one mana cantrips make this list really really consistent, in goldfish it always went of turn 4 or earlier. And on testing they are being really good at finding utility cards like FOW to battle some decks.
I really encourage you guys to test the 12 cantrip version. I still want to try flash of insight since it was a house in my previous list when i needed to not fizzle...
Any suggestions ???
Your deck is essentially the standard Spring Tide build with +1 Preordain -1 Cunning Wish, so I don't have any real criticisms.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
How does this fare against the Survival variants? I haven't seen much of it in my meta yet, but I would like some input on how this handles the match up. It seems this deck races it pretty well though since turn 3 kill becomes the norm and the turn 2 kill is a lot more doable with more experience with the deck.
The 2nd-turn kill that you are talking about is doable, but unlikely. You need to have too many specific cards to make it work.
You are right that Spring Tide can indeed race Survival. But it heavily depends on the Survival build. In my experience GW Survival is a pretty decent matchup but UG is a different story. It heavily depends on winning the dice roll and not having your opponent start with turn1 Hierarch into turn 2 Survival.
And by the way 3rd-turn kills aren't the norm while playing Spring Tide. The goldfish might be between turn 3 and turn 4, but that doesn't help at all when you opponent interacts and still gets you with Vengevines on turn 4.
This is the sickest list in Pauper, and really highlights how powerful Frantic Search can be in these decks (I personally think FS should be unbanned since Mystical Tutor.AnT is perhaps stronger than Frantic Search.AnT and combo could use a boost with the loss of MTutor).
4 High Tide
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Snap
4 Frantic Search
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Accumulated Knowledge (I play this in synergy with FS)
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Impulse
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Compulsive Research
1 Capsize
2 Mnemonic Wall
16 Islands
This is a PAUPER list but it goes off on turn 3 ALL the time. The deck doesn't even need a storm card. Mnemonic Wall is the MVP of the deck and I'm not sure if a similar strategy can be ported to a Legacy list (probably only do-able if FS is unbanned)
You basically go off turn 3 with High Tide, dig a ton (Preordain and Ponder are insane in Spring Tide, and gives argubly more consistency than Solidarity in the early turns 1-3 in setting up).
High Tide, untap a bunch of stuff, draw. The idea is to Scroll and chain into 3 High Tides. Cast a Mnemonic Wall to recur Snaps, and have infinite mana, and inifinite recursion and finally killing your opponent with Compulsive Research which is not a dead card during the going-off phase.
If you have 3 High Tide effects, you will be able to cast Wall (5) and Snap (2) to untap 2 lands that tap for 4 each (8), netting mana, repeat this for infinite mana and play out your deck. To reach 3 High Tides is usually not easy, but I often hit 2 High Tides during the combo phase, then get the 3rd from casting Wall most of the time. The deck will rarely fizzle, but that's only playing with Frantic Search.
But the idea for Mnemonic Wall is out there. He's probably too costly without Frantic Search (turnabout is too expensive :/) but once you have 2 Walls in your deck, and you go off, you will almost never fizzle, and Wall + Scroll can dig anything you need (Brainfreeze) etc.
I'm thinking of porting some list over. I can't play Solidarity well enough, at least I'm too spoiled by the cantrips and setting up Ponder/Preordain does for this deck that Solidarity lacks. I always feel that if I played against discard with Solidarity, I will never win ;/
@Metalwalker:
Pauper Spring Tide is sick.
I came to the conclusion that Acumulated Knowledge is subpar, and Deep Analysis is better, since is better against discard, works wonders with Frantic Search, and double works as a win condition with Mnemonic Wall, so you don't have to run Compulsive Research.
Also, I like Words of Wisdom here...
Edit: last champ I used this deck, I went 3-0 (6-0), winning on turn 3 all 6 games. That's how consistent it is.
But in a format with FoW and daze (pauper has just Spell Pierce, Mana Leak and Spellstutter Sprite I guess), this deck would have to run some counters too, since it can't ignore them like Solidarity.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Happy birthday!!!!
+1 to that
It will make this deck a lot of more fun to play with.. or more frustrate to play against.
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