[Deck] Reanimator

[Clark Kant]

Along the lines of my previous post, what do you guys think of this list...

2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Entomb
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Careful Study
1 Zombie Infestation
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Swamp

You are essentially playing...

13 Creatures
13 Discard
13 Reanimates

so you will pretty much always have what you need to combo off, and usually can combo off twice, even if the first reanimate effect gets countered.

Update: On testing, I don't think the white splash is worth it.

Enlightened Tutor and the cards that it tutors up slow down the deck too much. Mystical Tutor is a one of a kind card and there are no easy replacements.

Hopefully, now that they printed Mental Misstep to hurt combo, Wizards will come to their senses and unban Mystical Tutor in 16 days.

Maybe we should all email them...

aaron.forsythe@wizards.com,
mark.rosewater@wizards.com

[Garobidou]

Playing 13-14 Reanimates sounds a lot sexier. The Reanimate is what your opponent usually counters anyways, not the discard effect. Many games, you will lose with a big creature in your yard but no reanimate effect since your first one got countered or the creature you brought with it sacrificed.

When they make you sac a creature, it helps you to have another reanimate effect in hand, so you should really max out the reanimate effects over both discard and creatures. They can't stop you from discarding creatures in response with Zombie Infestation before they destroy it, but they can destroy an Animate Dead.

As such, I would cut the random one of Thoughtseize (or possibly a Mental Misstep or Daze) to make room for the 4th Exhume. I might cut a second one as well to play a 2nd Animate Dead in case the first one gets destroyed.

Some thoughts on your changes :

- Bad players will counter your reanimate effects. Reanimate effects are "vanilla" part of the combo piece whereas our discards (except Zombie infestation) say "Discard + Draw 1 or 2" or are 2 parts ("Discard" + "Creature") of the combo. Moreover, as Aslan stated, discard alone is never a dead card, contrary to Reanimate effects. Maths could advocate for a X/X/X Creatures/Discards/Reanimates, so that you optimize your chances of getting the combo (cf. my previous question to Aslan about his 12/11/9 setup) but a X/X/X+1 setup doesn't seem to be the right move

- You should never run less than 4 Mental Misstep. The main threats we're facing are : Missteps on our Discard/Tutors/Entomb/Reanimate... and removal, especially those who remove from the game creatures. Mental misstep deals with both of them while being free. I think I would even cut Fow before mental misstep.

- The Thoughtseize is not "random". It is our 13th permission spell (there's no reason not to increase both your combo pieces and permission spells). Moreover, as I said earlier this build is slower than straight UB Reanimator : if you tutor Zombie infestation or Animate dead of turn 1 you won't be able to have the creature on table before turn 3. That means you'll have mana and tempo available to cast discard spells

[Alsan]

Awesome :O... I'm gonna test your decklist this week Garobidou, and I'll try to play it Thursday evening. What do you think of cutting 2-3 lands to add chrome mox, to play Zombie infestation turn 1, adding 2 more infestations? The enchantment works GREAT with Jin-gitaxias, allowing us to discard and make zombies every turn, giving blockers and attackers.

Is white worthless because it doesn't give any other threat?

[Sharpened]

Awesome :O... I'm gonna test your decklist this week Garobidou, and I'll try to play it Thursday evening. What do you think of cutting 2-3 lands to add chrome mox, to play Zombie infestation turn 1, adding 2 more infestations? The enchantment works GREAT with Jin-gitaxias, allowing us to discard and make zombies every turn, giving blockers and attackers.

Is white worthless because it doesn't give any other threat?

Adding Zombie infestations becuase they work well with Jin in play is silly. Once Jin is in play, you pretty much just win, either with him alone or be reanimating another creature.

[Clark Kant]

Meh. On testing, I don't think the white splash is worth it.

Enlightened Tutor and the cards that it tutors up slow down the deck too much. Mystical Tutor is a one of a kind card and there are no easy replacements.

Hopefully, now that they printed Mental Misstep to hurt combo, Wizards will come to their senses and unban Mystical Tutor in 16 days.

Maybe we should all email them...

aaron.forsythe@wizards.com,
mark.rosewater@wizards.com

[Alsan]

Haha, I know, I know, but that's not true 100%. When you reanimate Jin, if you are playing against aggro, if it's not turn 2, you are mostly dead. In this build, with Zombies blocking hand to hand with Jin, it's easier to survive. And without fattie, zombies gives you time and blockers.

I wanna play all builds of reanimator for fun, but in a big tournament I'll still play my UB build or the UBr firestorm build.

@Clark: maybe we should make a Facebook group "Mystical tutor back NOW!". It wouldn't work, but...

[rnightingale]

Reanimator @ 2nd spot in SCG Open Indianapolis

Maindeck:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
3 Putrid Imp
1 Stormtide Leviathan

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
2 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep

Legendary Creatures
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

Basic Lands
3 Island
4 Swamp

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Putrid Imp
1 Terastodon
2 Brainstorm
1 Mental Misstep
4 Spell Pierce
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

[Alsan]

Instants
2 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep

Instants
2 Brainstorm...

2 Brainstorm...

2 Brainstorm...

Really? I wanted to ask why Putrid Imp > Hapless researcher, but... but...!

Now seriously, in the coverage of finals both gone to mull5, and the reanimator player stuck on 1 island. We've tried to cut most of basic lands, but he plays 7. Before that, I'll try Darkslick shores. Do you guys usually fetch to basic lands while playing this deck?

EDIT: I'm glad with results, but No Rug? It's an easy pair, and with 4 pithing needle naming Jace...

[Garobidou]

@ Recent SCG Open List

Yeah 2 brainstorms is very surprising. One could argue, as Caleb did for Madness, that you'd prefer directly having business than spells allowing you to find business (namely draw spells). However I would personnally never go under 4 brainstorms in Reanimator.

Concerning Putrid Imp his only advantage over Hapless is about the reusability of the discard, in particular when you have 2 creatures in hand and Exhume it's easier to fight graveyard hate (Discard with Imp => Exhume => Hate => Discard with Imp where Hapless would have allowed you to discard only 1 creature, the first one).

@White splash

1) Chrome Mox
My initial thought would have been Petal Lotus as :
- it is less ressource consuming
- you don't need a permanent mana source : Mox and Petals would allow you to be 1 turn faster by having 3 mana on turn 2 and be able to cast the 2cc tutored card (tutored on turn 1) + a 1cc other part of the combo. I mean if both your discard and Reanimate are 2cc you'll have to wait T3, such as you would have done without Petals.

However I'd be interested by having your feedback on Mox if you tried it :)

2) Zombie Infestation
I like this idea as it still makes Jin a good target after Turn 2. However this has to be looked in regards to the speed you're losing in other cases (I mean when you would have been able to go off by turn 2 with a 1cc discard outlet).
However my main concern is that we would have to cut Hapless Researcher. After my recent testing (same list as yours -1 creature +1 Animate Dead) I'd be more likely to go to 4 Hapless than to cut one or all of them. But as for the Mox, I'd be glad to have your feedback if you tried such a setup :)

3) As you do Alsan, I think the most competitive list is UB by quite a large margin

[rnightingale]

It's kinda weird because.. there are two Brainstorms and 4th copy of Putrid Imp in Sideboard. @_@

[Clark Kant]

Here's my newest list...

10 Fetchlands
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Hapless Researcher

4 Entomb
2 Jin-Gitaxis
2 Iona
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx
1 Terastodan
1 Inkwell

4 FoW
3 Daze


12 creatures
12 discard
12 reanimate

Super consistent. Any opinions?

[Sturtzilla]

Here's my newest list...

10 Fetchlands
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Hapless Researcher
4 Entomb
2 Jin-Gitaxis
2 Iona
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx
1 Terastodan
1 Inkwell
4 FoW
3 Daze

12 creatures
12 discard
12 reanimate

Super consistent. Any opinions?

Where are your Mental Missteps? MM has really been shining for me in just about every match up that I have been testing against. Otherwise I like the build. Maybe going to an 11/11/11 with 3 MM in the deck as well. What do others think about that? I have been running the build below and it has been working pretty well for me. I went back to Blazing Archon over Elesh Norn after losing to NO Elves a good bit the other night. Games 2-3 would be different as Archon is designed to win that match up. I am still working on how to work in Elesh into the main. I really like having more aggro shutdown power. However, I really don't want to lose my permission package. Oh by the way I picked up Beta Animate Deads the other day, I am pretty stoked about that. Thoughts?

4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
3 Swamp
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Entomb
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Daze



11 Creatures
11 Discard
11 Protection/Counter Magic
10 Reanimate

[vikram]

Looks solid, though I really don't think Mental Misstep is all that necessary.

[Garobidou]

@ Clark Kant
Your list looks like the pre-NPH list I was running so I can't say this is bad. However if you run no Mental misstep (and just 7 permission spells) I would cut the 2 Jin for 2 Ionas (or 1 Iona 1 Sphinx). Jin isn't that great by turn 3+ and you shouldn't be able to reliably reanimate it by turn 2-3 with such a list :
- you have a bigger variance on the reanimated creature with only 2 Jin
- trading free counters for additional combo pieces increases your consistency but reduces your speed

@Sturtzilla
I'm running the same list as yours with -1 Land +1 Daze (-1 Leviathan -1 Iona + 1 Sphinx + 1 Jin).
Also I would suggest you to switch Swamp #2-3 and Island #2 for additional fetchs.

[Alsan]

Quick reply 'cause I'm at work, but +1 to all said by Garobidou (mostly the variance, it makes you Entomb dependant). (I'll keep playing the #2 island and swamp because I don't have the 4th USea Fbb, but i't my concern).

[alderon666]

How do you like running that much basics? I've run into several scenarios where a god hand becomes unkeepable because all I have is an Island in hand.

[Garobidou]

I agree with you (but I can understand someone not running the 4th Underground because it's a White Border one :D).

Let's list the problems we can face due to a large amount of basics and let's do the maths. As we are a combo deck I'll just go through initial hand issues.
I can see 2 types of problems :
- All the combo pieces in hand but only black mana and a blue discard outlet (sidenote : this is Putrid imp advantage #2 over Hapless, being on the same color as the reanimate effects)
- All the combo pieces in hand in the form of Entomb + Reanimate effect but only blue mana

So this gives 4 cases :
(1+ means at least 1)

- Case #1 : On the play, 1+ Blue discard outlet, 1+ Creature, 1+ Reanimate/Exhume/Animate dead, no entomb, 1+ Swamp and no other land of other type
- Case #2 : On the draw, 1+ Creature, 1+ Reanimate, no blue discard outlet, 1+ Island and no other land of other type
- Case #3 : On the play/draw, 1+ Entomb, 1+ Reanimate, 1+ Island and no other land of other type
- Case #4 : On the play/draw, 1+ Entomb, 1+ Exhume/Animate dead, 2+ Island and no other land of other type

I used my list for the maths : 4 entomb, 7 creatures, 10 Reanimate effects (2 Animate dead), 7 Blue discard outlets, 12 counters, 4 brainstorms and 16 Lands.

The "absolute" numbers are the raw probabilities. The "relative" numbers are the absolute one compared the averall 36,19% of having the combo in your opening 7 (so raw numbers divided by 36,19%). This represents the % of "god hands" you make unkeepable by running basics.

So the probability of falling in one of the cases stated above are :

1. 16 Lands list 1 island, 1 swamp
- On the play : 0,72% absolute / 1,99% relative
- On the draw : 0,49% absolute / 1,36% relative

2. 16 Lands list 2 island, 1 swamp
- On the play : 1,14% absolute / 3,15% relative
- On the draw : 1,03% absolute / 2,85% relative

3. 16 Lands list 1 island, 2 swamp
- On the play : 1,14% absolute / 3,15% relative
- On the draw : 0,49% absolute / 1,36% relative

4. 16 Lands list 2 island, 2 swamp
- On the play : 1,56% absolute / 4,31% relative
- On the draw : 1,03% absolute / 2,85% relative

Feel free to comment on any scenario I might not have considered in my cases, I'll redo the maths.

[Sturtzilla]

@Sturtzilla
I'm running the same list as yours with -1 Land +1 Daze (-1 Leviathan -1 Iona + 1 Sphinx + 1 Jin).
Also I would suggest you to switch Swamp #2-3 and Island #2 for additional fetchs.

I have been wondering about my land base and my fatty/target creatures. Thanks for posting the math above about the basic land count. I found that really interesting. I do have a question, how are you liking running running the deck at 16 land? I just brought mine down to 17 and cutting another frightens me a bit. I know that I mulligan aggressively with this deck as it stands (I have on two separate occasions at tournaments mulled to 4 cards and still had a turn 2 dude, which subsequently won me the game [opponents don't generally take kindly to being blown out by a 4 card hand]) and I do not want to worsen that (neither the mulling nor the opponents being greater pussies [but just mostly the mulling part]). Furthermore, could you give me some reasoning on your selected creatures and numbers thereof? I like Leviathan and Iona but haven't really been using the Leviathan much lately and Iona seems like she has narrower uses now that there is JGCA.

[Garobidou]

Honestly I did not think going down to 16 lands (I was running 17) before I saw Alsan's list. I tried it and I liked it.

Then I did the maths. If you don't want to run less than 12 permission spells (like I do), you have 4 options :
1) running 16 lands and 11/11/10 Discards/Creatures/Reanimates
2) running 17 lands and 10/11/10 (meaning 2 Hapless only)
3) running 17 lands and 11/10/10 (meaning only 6 creatures in addition to entomb)
4) running 17 lands and 11/11/9 (meaning only 1 Animate Dead)

If we stick with the opening hand reasoning, your probability to have the combo in initial hand is :
- Option 1 : 36,19%
- Option 2 : 35,56%
- Option 3 : 35,73%
- Option 4 : 34,88%

As you can see 16 lands is slightly better.
If you decide a counterspell for a land as you did, you reach 37,21%. But you lose permission. That's up to personal choice but I do enjoy the 12 permission spells.

Concerning the creatures I have 2 main reasons :

1) I want to reduce as much as I can variance. 2/3 of our discard outlets are random as we can't chose the creature we want to bin, we have to bin the one we have in hand. Having options (1-of) is great but it makes you rely on entomb (as Alsan also stated it). If Jin is the 1st target then we should run 4. Same reasoning applies for the following creatures, the 2nd creature should be a 2 or 3-of.

2) Moreover after turn 2, Jin loses efficiency. Especially against aggro where we can be overhelmed even if Jin succeeds to stick. So, as a 2nd creature, we should look at a strong target against aggro and an overall strong creature post T3. Sphinx is in my opinion the best one (except against Control but Jin's still good post T3 in that match up). It allows you to stabilize if low on life (after a Reanimate for example). It deals with large green creatures, goblins, burn, tombstalker, wurmcoil, empty the warrens... Even against merfolk he is great, even more if you managed to have no island. He is Go for the throat proof and smother proof (Team America, UBG Landstill). He is also Karakas-proof. And now, with Mental misstep, he is more 1cc removal-proof (his main weakness in the past). I think Mental misstep allows us to run creatures without any kind of shroud (Inkwell, Iona), which used to be sup-optimal intrinsic choices (but safer ones).

[Clark Kant]

Garobidou, thank you for doing all the math supporting going down to 16 land. Can you please post your current (16 land) list?

I would love to test it out with one small modification...

I would cut a Mental Misstep (or Daze) to go down to 11 permission spells, and play a 11/11/11/11 configuration. And not just because that sounds so neat.


I think running less than 11 reanimates is a mistake for the following reasons.

Many (most) players seem to counter the second part of the combo, the actual reanimate effect, rather than the discard outlet. They are not threatened by a creature going into the yard, since they don't know if you can bring it out yet, but the second they see that you can, they FoW the Reanimate. Having spares of the second part of the combo is helpful.

It's not a bad play to animate/reanimate your opponents Tarmogoyf or Confidant or Nighthawk or some other creature in a pinch. You can do that if you have spares. I've won games thanks to Dazing my opponents Confidant, then Reanimating it over to my side.

Creatures do get killed by things other than Swords effects. If you have a spare reanimate effect, you're set.

On the play, you can easily pass the turn and discard if you what you are lacking is a discard outlet.