[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Master Shake]

Here is one neat solution to the Merfolk problem:

Vedalken Shackles combined with either High Market or Miren, the Moaning Well. Grab a merfolk with the shackles, then sacrifice!

Yes, a list did play this little combo in a Landstill deck:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=45181

I was just going to respond with the word "Wasteland" but that would be a waste of a post. However, I hope you keep that in mind while I type the rest of this out. These lands produce colorless, Shakcles doesn't come on-line until at least turn 4, but probably not until after you're dead because of what Merfolk does. High Market clearly isn't an island, nor are your factories, Wastelands or Plains. If you're ever going to really try to pull this off you'd need 3 High Markets, bringing the colorless count of most decks to 11, which is just under half the lands and well over half the mana producing lands. Also, this deck plays Karn, Liberated, another great 7 mana answer to Merfolk, all you need to do is have total board control, be able to resolve a card on turn 13 after tapping out and then have them do literally nothing for two turns, then you can restart the game and lose like you were supposed to the first time around. Perhaps we can talk about how this deck placed in an 18 player event. Top 4 at an 18 player event isn't too hard, especially considering that most of the decks were probably cold aforementioned Karn Liberated. Using this logic, I guess the singleton Pulse of the Fields is a pretty good answer to Merfolk as well, you just need to get some white sources.

Redbalde, the deck that won that event and came in 2nd at the most recent SCG event is actually fairly interesting, though.

[DragoFireheart]

@Master Shake.

With your logic, I could dismiss the deck that got first saying it;s easy to top eight in a small tournament.

Hanni has tested Shackles against merfolk in his countertop lists extensively. They work when used in conjunction with counters/removal.

[GGoober]

@Master Shake.

With your logic, I could dismiss the deck that got first saying it;s easy to top eight in a small tournament.

Hanni has tested Shackles against merfolk in his countertop lists extensively. They work when used in conjunction with counters/removal.

Shackles works only if you run a high Island count, which in Hanni's list does so. If you start adding 4 Manlands, and some Wastelands, Shackles becomes bad. Trust me, it's a trade off. Hanni likes Shackles and basics more than manlands, but some of us prefer to have win conditions that don't take the slots of non-lands which also happens to have synergy with the control archetype and Standstill.

The list you posted is what is normally called 'win-more'. Why would I ever need Miren as a sac outlet just to fuel Shackles? It's the mentality you get from playing EDH, not really playing Legacy. You're always looking for the worst scenarios as a control deck in Legacy, not trying to beat the scenarios where you are already winning at.

[GGoober]

@Master Shake.

With your logic, I could dismiss the deck that got first saying it;s easy to top eight in a small tournament.

Hanni has tested Shackles against merfolk in his countertop lists extensively. They work when used in conjunction with counters/removal.

Shackles works only if you run a high Island count, which in Hanni's list does so. If you start adding 4 Manlands, and some Wastelands, Shackles becomes bad. Trust me, it's a trade off. Hanni likes Shackles and basics more than manlands, but some of us prefer to have win conditions that don't take the slots of non-lands which also happens to have synergy with the control archetype and Standstill.

The list you posted is what is normally called 'win-more'. Why would I ever need Miren as a sac outlet just to fuel Shackles? It's the mentality you get from playing EDH, not really playing Legacy. You're always looking for the worst scenarios as a control deck in Legacy, not trying to beat the scenarios where you are already winning at.

[kiblast]

While almost unplayable in Legacy, sac lands + Schackles is good enough for my Hanna EDH, thanks for suggestion.
Anyway, what's the point of running Karn above the 4th Jace? Anybody tested that slot?

Edit: actually some sort of UWG Creature-still could be interesting. No Tarmogoyfs though. I'd rather play 4 Kotr and 2 Cliques. Stirring Wildwood is a solid non-graveyard based 5th manland, while Loam + Jace is obviously very good.

[DragoFireheart]

Shackles works only if you run a high Island count, which in Hanni's list does so. If you start adding 4 Manlands, and some Wastelands, Shackles becomes bad. Trust me, it's a trade off. Hanni likes Shackles and basics more than manlands, but some of us prefer to have win conditions that don't take the slots of non-lands which also happens to have synergy with the control archetype and Standstill.

The list you posted is what is normally called 'win-more'. Why would I ever need Miren as a sac outlet just to fuel Shackles? It's the mentality you get from playing EDH, not really playing Legacy. You're always looking for the worst scenarios as a control deck in Legacy, not trying to beat the scenarios where you are already winning at.

There have been Landstill decks with many basics and being able to fully run Shackles that placed in the Top 8.

[Tacosnape]

Merfolk hasn't been a huge problem for me, although my list is very streamlined and light on sweepers. I've broken about even with it on the whole, and strangely my biggest problem in the matchup has been dealing with Kira.

Here's my list at current, for reference.

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mutavault
1 Celestial Colonnade

4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Engineered Explosives

3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell

SB:
4 Meddling Mage
1 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Snare
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
1 Nevinyrral's Disk

[klaus]

SB:
4 Meddling Mage
1 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Snare
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
1 Nevinyrral's Disk

Apparently there hardly any gy-based decks in your meta. Good for you.
Crucible is an interesting SB card that I haven't considered yet for some reason.
I could easily see a singleton Enlightened Tutor pimping your SB tremendously, modifying it along these lines:
1 E.T.
1 Canonist (fetchable)
1 Disk
1 Needle
1 Relic
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Meddling Mage
1 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Snare
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wrath
1 Clique

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Edit: actually some sort of UWG Creature-still could be interesting. No Tarmogoyfs though. I'd rather play 4 Kotr and 2 Cliques. Stirring Wildwood is a solid non-graveyard based 5th manland, while Loam + Jace is obviously very good.

Clique is a terrible blocker. Tarmogoyf is an amazing blocker. He's also about the best defensive Repeal target.

[DragoFireheart]

Merfolk hasn't been a huge problem for me, although my list is very streamlined and light on sweepers. I've broken about even with it on the whole, and strangely my biggest problem in the matchup has been dealing with Kira.

Strangely? They run Kira because control decks run spot removal. You need some kind of sweeper. Some have tested Disk, others have tested WoG. However, the best solution is usually a continuous one, like Humility or Moat.

[Tacosnape]

@Kira: I'd rather just sneak an Underground Sea in my manabase so I can Explosives for 3. I've actually already done this. It also gives me a weird option to board Perish if Thrun, The Last Troll becomes a serious issue.

I've never felt like I needed a sweeper maindeck in Landstill beyond Engineered Explosives. Usually, through good choices as to when and where to spend removal and counters and through the deck's ludicrous card advantage, I've rarely found myself needing one. The times I want one are usually when I can't target something. Kira's a pain, as is Thrun, the Last Troll. Beyond this, I've been pretty much okay.

Also, @Klaus: I had an Enlightened Tutor board for awhile. I went away from it, though I keep the E-tutors nearby just in case. I switch back and forth depending on how often I feel the metagame warrants me needing to find a specific card versus trying to just win a resource war.

Also, I have the three Surgical Extractions in my board to help with yard hate, though I'm probably going to switch some combination of those out for Faerie Macabres, which are much better against Reanimator. And as for having a sweeper, the Disk and the Wrath in my board give me access to 2 in games 2 and 3. Combined with the Explosives, this is often enough.

[DragoFireheart]

I've never felt like I needed a sweeper maindeck in Landstill beyond Engineered Explosives. Usually, through good choices as to when and where to spend removal and counters and through the deck's ludicrous card advantage, I've rarely found myself needing one. The times I want one are usually when I can't target something. Kira's a pain, as is Thrun, the Last Troll. Beyond this, I've been pretty much okay.

Humility answers both.

[Tacosnape]

Humility answers both.

So it does. I may actually attempt this.

Anyway, I went undefeated last night in locals, though by no means was it a cakewalk and I dodged a lot of very close calls. Sideboard was different than my above list.

Round 1: Patrick with Merfolk. Yaaaay!

Game one he gets down Silvergill and a Wasteland, and I drop a Standstill, hoping to sneak it through a counter. I then proceed to drop three Mishra's Factories and a Conclave. He has to break it. It takes awhile, but after eating a free Merfolk by STP'ing Lord of Atlantis and then blocking with Factory, I stabilize. I stick a Jace and out card-advantage him.

Game two involves me hitting an insane number of Paths and Swords. Like, I hit 6 1CC white removal spells before I hit my fourth land. This game is a resource battle to the bitter end, but I eventually get there at 1 life.

Round 2: Josh with UGB Vengevine

Game 1 involves like, 300 Mental Misstep wars. He almost kills me with a Circular Logic on a removal spell aimed at Wild Mongrel, but I stabilize, land a Jace, and win. I never see a Vengevine.

I board wrong, due to sleep deprivation. For some reason I don't bring in Surgical Extraction, even though I still think he's running Vine. It doesn't make a difference, though. I also board out Wasteland like an idiot.

Game 2 involved three turns of resource wars, followed by Thrun, the Last Troll.

Game 3 I STILL don't bring in Surgicals (Seriously. One of my worst boarding days ever), but Mages come in as I haven't yet seen a removal spell from Josh. My Mage gets Circular Logic'd, but Standstill nets me some cards, Jace nets me some more, and he never sees Thrun.

So I escape bad boarding by him not seeing Vengevine for an entire three games. Neat.

Round 3: Carla with Belcher.

Game 1: Force of Will, Engineered Explosives, Counterspell, Jace, Manlands, Game 2.

Game 2: Sleepily, I don't fetch a basic on turn one. Magus of the Moon hits. I'm not very bright.

Game 3: She has a hand that somehow wins on turn one with Pyroblast backup, but forgets to Pyroblast my counter. Bizarre. My terrible play somehow continues to be rewarded by luck.

Round 4: Nick with BGW Rock/Junk/Whatever.

Playing Nick makes me a better player. I have to mulligan to 6, and the first four turns involve him throwing discard at me and me countering the discard. He somehow never hits a third mana producing land, and I manage to catch a Standstill off a Brainstorm, gain control of the attrition war, and stick a Jace. By the time he gets his next land, I've untapped and have Counterspells waiting for Vindicates.

Game 2 I board out Forces and load up on Paths, and my fourth Misstep and Snare. He gets a fast Knight, and I'm scared of him fetching Wastelands to keep me off Oblivion Ring, but he instead uses his mana to cast...something. Can't remember. Anyway, it lets me ring his Knight. He gets a second Knight and I get a Jace, yet somehow I can't seem to find an answer to Knight and have to keep bouncing him. I finally dig up a Path with Jace at one counter, and then Jace Brainstorms for about nine turns until I have the ground forces to overwhelm him.

Semis: Larry w/ Burn

Larry's a paradox. He's a very careful, thoughtful, skilled player who plays decks that attract players who are the complete opposite of him. Anyway, Game 1 and Game 2 both pretty much play the same. I somehow stop just enough burn to Jace ultimate him at one burn spell away from death. All I remember here was that Engineered Explosives was a complete monster against Guide/Lavamancer/Figure, and that Standstill is fun against suspended Rift Bolts. Also, both games involve me activating and Swordsing a Factory in response to Price of Progress.

And I split the finals with Nick, as we're both deliriously tired at this point.

Anyway, here's what I decided:

1. I absolutely love having 4 Path to Exiles between Maindeck and Sideboard. I had 2 main and 2 board, and they were fantastic against Merfolk, Rock, and UGB Vengevine.

2. I need an answer to Thrun, the Last Troll. Vendilion Clique comes to mind. As do Wrath and Humility, but Clique seems more versatile.

3. Nevinyrral's Disk, despite being a neat trick against Show and Tell, does not make nice with Oblivion Ring. I ran one in the sideboard and it was trash.

4. RG Belcher is weirdly and impressively good. The deck almost blanks Mental Misstep, and I had a lot of trouble stopping it.

[DragoFireheart]

4. RG Belcher is weirdly and impressively good. The deck almost blanks Mental Misstep, and I had a lot of trouble stopping it.

..Seriously? Can't MMS hit their mana sources or Land Grant or something to disrupt them? What made that match up harder than one would think?

[Koby]

..Seriously? Can't MMS hit their mana sources or Land Grant or something to disrupt them? What made that match up harder than one would think?

Belcher can fight through light blue disruption. Don't discount it altogether.

[RogueMTG]

..Seriously? Can't MMS hit their mana sources or Land Grant or something to disrupt them? What made that match up harder than one would think?

Well Land Grant costs 1G... So misstep hits Rite of Flame and Tinder Wall and I guess Pyroblast post board. It's not horrible but it's not great.

[lorddotm]

Knapp, I was wondering if you could post your latest list. Thank you.

[crovakiet]

2. I need an answer to Thrun, the Last Troll. Vendilion Clique comes to mind. As do Wrath and Humility, but Clique seems more versatile.

Have you messed around a bit with phyrexian metamorph? I know that vendilion clique is very versatile especially with karakas in play as well as being a 7 turn win condition however for the same mana cost + 2 life, phyrexian metamorph hits problem legendaries like thrun or kira and in those cases acts as removal of stuff that can pretty much potentially win them the game. In other cases it can be used to stall/win such as copy reanimated huge targets, batterskull tricks, opponent's goyfs(while removing them afterwards with stp/path) etc.

[dsck]

Played in a 5 round swiss tournament (17 players) today. I ended up going 3-1-1 losing to Burn and drawing against Zoo.

List:
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Decree of Justice
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God

1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Standstill

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Celestial Colonnade
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:
3 Peacekeeper
2 Energy Flux
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tariff
1 Cursed Totem
1 Dream Tides
2 Chill
2 Misdirection

VERY short report:

Round 1 Elves with Tangle Wires 2-0
G1 I misstep his turn 1 elf and drop standstill and reach 4 mana soon and wrath his board and drop Elspeth.
G2 I slow him down misstepping his first few elves (I let him have those insects that untap elves). He drops couple tangle wires but runs out of gas while hitting me with 3 1/1's. I finally get 2 mana open and drop Cursed Totem, soon followed by Dream Tides, followed by Jace....

Round 2 The Rack 2-0
G1 He resolves 1 hymn and dies to factories.
G2 I sword his 3 creatures and misdirect his hymn to himself, jace makes sure he draws nothing but lands and rituals.

Round 3 NO RUG 2-0
G1 Humility.
G2 Tariff.

Round 4 Burn 0-2
G1 I die.
G2 I die.

Round 5 "Small" Zoo 1-1-1
G1 I manage to almost stabilize @ 2 lifes with humility on the table and him having only Goyf. I dont see any factories whole game while topping and brainstorming only to see counters and die to 1/1 Tarmogoyf

G2 He has to break 2 Standstills, I lock the game down with Dream Tides, Humility and Jace. He doesnt scoop because he has active Sylvan Library (he for some reason didnt take damage and draw the bad cards away from his top, but instead sounded angry everytime he looked his top 3) and chance to draw Grips. He grips the humility but cant attack with his large knight because of Dream Tides would keep it tapped. I bounce his knight and run over him with factories and colonnade, I think I also had Elspeth at that point as well.

G3 He plays turn 2 Vexing Shusher and I have hand full of counters but no removal , shortly after he gets Teeg and cant attack because I have 2 Factories. I keep him off red land with Wastelands and play Crucible when time is called..


Slops
- Lack of preparation vs red/burn (I have to wonder how burn slipped through with 3-0 record though.. and finished 5-0!)
- People not knowing how humility works (why isnt that factory 1/1!?)

Props
+ Standstill
+ Dream Tides

[klaus]

Here's my current list for those who're interested:

CA/CQ:
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Jace, TMS

REMOVAL:
4 STP
2 PtE
2 Shackles
2 EE

COUNTER SUITE:
4 FOW
4 MM
3 CS
3 Snare

WIN CON (beyond Jace, Shackles, Factory):
1 Elspeth
(--37--)

LAND:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dustbowl
(--23--)

SB:
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Aura of Silence
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Path to Exile
3 Firespout

I'm very happy with the current version, but am open to crits on the not so common choices.
Peace!