Generally, if you are boarding in Bob you can cut down on cantrips. I don't know if I've ever gone below 7, but he makes up the difference in selection by filling your hand with cards.Originally Posted by JJ-JKidd
Also, sometimes you want to cut a couple lands or lotus petals if your opponent doesn't have much of a mana denial plan, since 17 land is too many unless you're scared of wasteland/stifle, and lotus petal kinda sucks if you're grinding out the game (which you usually are looking to do with Bob)
I'm assuming you cut Preordains, correct?
Also, how crazy am I for not running Bob in the board? I cut them and two bounces in Indie for a Doomsday/Emrakul board because I was unnecessarily nervous about counter/top. I ended up only boarding them in during grinders when I hated my opponent, because every deck you want them for seems to have found room for Stifle and Wasteland.
You can cut Bob...but the Doomsday board plan is really, really bad right now (like you said). The only counterbalance decks are RUG ones, and Doomsday is never going to work against them.
I'm not exactly sure what you cut Bob for...but I can definitely see it not making sense in some metas (or, if you want to run Burning Wish main, you almost have to cut him for tutor targets).
I've also cut Bob from the sideboard and replaced it with extirpates and/or dread of night.
If you're having a hard time beating Thalia/cannonist + mother of runes dread of night is just awsome. Extirpate isn't really needed since reanimator isn't a deck anymore but I like them for the hand info they provide, the ability to remove either a snapcaster's target or protect your tutors (to a certain degree) from surgical extraction.
How have I never even seen Dread of Night? I've been playing with Virtue's Ruin in the board, but it's nice to know that for two less mana I could kill all the same stuff except for Teeg. Thanks, man, I like that.
It doesn't hit Teeg or Canonist...it's fine, but playing a card to kill hate bears that doesn't kill the two most popular bears is awkward to say the least.
EDIT:
I think Thalia is seeing more and more play maindeck, but Teeg and Canonist almost always come in from the board, and this makes it so you need to draw 2 of your SB cards to kill them.
That said...I haven't actually tested the card, it may be easier than I'm giving it credit for to hit two of them, which should surely lock them out of the game.
While it is true 1 dread of night doesn't instantly kill teeg and cannonist it does 2 very important things:
- killing all mother of runes/thalia thus giving you the ability to just target their hatebears with any bounce spell
- reducing the power of cannonist and teeg thus giving you more time to find either a bounce spell or simply a second dread of night.
you really can't ask for more from a card at the cost of one black mana. As for drawing 2 of them, there is only 1 card you can play where you'll only need 1 card to solve moR+ hatebear and that is virtue's ruin. The problem I have with this card is the casting cost making it impossible to play like 3 of them in an Ad Nauseam deck, the fact that it doesn't protect your lifetotal from early beats and the fact that you will have to combo the same turn as playing the card and it will cost alot of mana. (4! with Thalia)
I've won games where my opponent had hands of cannonist, GSZ, Thalia and mother of runes where my hand had cantrips, lands, ritual + dread of night. With any other card I would have lost this game for sure.
Hi guys!! Since the existence of Past in Flame i wanted to run it in ant. Search for list and picked uo this one, tried it and got a bit excited:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [U] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Island (4a)
2 [ZEN] Swamp (2a)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Badlands
// Spells
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
1 [ISD] Past in Flames
4 [US] Duress
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [M11] Preordain
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 1 [4E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
The only question about main deck is what is chain of vapor specifically for??
Would you replace mox for another spell??
Sideboar in pretty unneat and need some help. I saw list with Empty the warrens. Why would i change tendrils for warrens?? And why a second nauseam is needed?? Mirror??
Sorry for my newbie question but i've been a time "out of magic" and coming back!
Thx!!
Wow you are out of practice! Chain is for the maindeck hatebears maverick plays or artifically increasing storm count. Mox is necessary if you are going Ad naus every game, although cutting one or two wouldn't be miserable. Empty the warrens is one of the better cards to draw against RUG tempo/threshold as they usually can't beat 10 goblins easily. And the second ad nauseam is good against matchups where drawing naturally is insane (read: control).
Matt Bevenour in real life
Yes i am!!!
I thought that for that purpose was confidant! And i see them a bit antisinergic...?
I've played 4x Dread of night in a tournament (a lot of WW and Maverick expected) and lost to Maverick where any other sweeper would win me the game, it is conditional as any other card, but the need of 2 and increasing number of pridemages MD discourages me from keeping it in
Would targeted removal (slaughter pact/disfigure/deathmark) have been better?
I have started testing infest in the sb as a 2-of...it seems fine, but typically I can keep them from landing multiple hate bears, so the board wipe isn't that relevant. I'm still not sold on the board wipe plans (infest, virtues ruin, dread of night) over stuff like slaughter pact and chain of vapor.
Yeah, you can do this with thoughtseize mainly cuz you can take creatures, this plus pact + vapor deals with them!
Would have been (I ended up with multiple, Ooze killing me); I'm not sure If in general... so I keep Virtue's ruin, Infest, Pyroclasm for now ...I had great impression in T2 or mid combo Grim-> Pyroclasm
which restricts me on AN postboard, and Ooze is a problem so I'm tempted to put double pact back
all options cover problematic creatures to some extent, it's how you deal with corner cases, for me UBr storm needs some instant sweeper =/
Infest isn't supposed to be a traditional sweeper, its just a way to kill a hatebear through mother of runes. If you're dying to creatures before you can combo there is a good chance you're doing something wrong. I'm playing two echoing truth a wipe away and two infest currently, I've only lost to maverick once and it was almost entirely my fault (I'm extremely greedy with mulligans).
The problem I've had with infest is it's very expensive with a Thalia out, particularly when maverick is more than happy to wasteland you at every opportunity.
Yeah, hate bear + mom is annoying, typically I just wait for EOT bounce/pact then main phase again-you can usually thoughtseize.enough to stop them from getting multiples + Mom.
I agree though, I've never had to target a non hate bear/mom with a removal spell, their clock isn't particularly fast, even when they get a knight going you have a few turns.
Also, if you've never lost to maverick you either need to playtest the matchup more or playtest with better maverick players. The matchup is positive, but maybe 60/40 positive, not 90/10.
I was just talking tournament play, I've lost plenty in playtesting. Yeah 4 mana is a lot but since you can't cast massacre with teeg in play its our best option. The reason I play this deck over TES is that it can play through and around wasteland.
Played UBr ANT in a 48(?) person tournament and ended up in 6th place.
UW stoneforge 2-1 (win)
RUG delver 2-0 (win)
Tezz Stax 2-1 (win)
Nic fit 0-2 (loss)
Burn 1-2 (loss)
UB controll 2-1 (win)
BUG counterbalance 2-1 (win)
Loosing to nicfit pissed me off. First game he drew 2x explorer and 2x cabaltherapy which demolished my hand and I could never recover. I had to go off without protection in second game since he had leathal on board, and of course did he have a mindbreak trap in hand.
I was also surprised how difficult burn was. Trying to combo off against 2 Pyrostatic Pillar aint easy! This guy ended up winning the tour with the score 7-0 so creds to him.
The list I ran:
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
9 Fetch
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lionīs Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
3 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
3 Thoughtsieze
3 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
60
Board:
1 Meltdown
1 Pyroclams
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Deathmark
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Infernal Tutor
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
15
Ok, I am fairly sure that there is a reason that this card is not played, but it seems very effective in removing Maverick's hatebears and it avoids MoM, not to mention being free... perhaps its too narrow?
Massacre
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