[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[HokusSchmokus]

That being said I wouldn't assume his list is "perfect" (I see so many people copying his list and taking it to tournaments but take into account that while the list is solid it is by no means a list forged throught months of testing.

Rumor has it that the list was developed in ca. 30 min.Never changed it afterwards afaik.

[Anselm]

Has anyone tested the Abrupt Decay plan devised by emidln a few pages back to beat UW Miracles? Interested in knowing how good it actually is. Seems sweet, but you never know.

[egosum]

I' m testing it. But adding green to the mixture even if it only is for decay cripples the mana base of current TNT builds (for those who are not used to this term still is ANT + burning wish, basically). for this matter I've felt that an internal restructure ahould be done. so, i've cut the BW and went bacl to good old Grim Tutor (still play a mini red splash for past in flames).

This is the list I' m pñaying:

MAIN DECK 60

lands 15

1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs

fast mana 16

4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond

4x Dark ritual
4x Cabal Ritual

cantrips 12

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe

protection 8

4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy

bussiness 9

4x Infernal Tutor
2x Grim Tutor
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of agony

SIDEBOARD 15

2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Engineered Exlosives
1x Ill-Gotten Gains

On abrut decay Abrupt Decay. It is more than a decent card for the CB match up but is worse than blue bouncers against plain aggro (or non blue) decks just because of its casting cost.

Nevertheless I like the list because splashing green (as main splash color) opens the possibility of including Xantid Swarm which helps a lot in some difficult (and even= match ups such as reanimator or Show and tell incarnations. In addition this little bug is very nice with cabal therapy (not because you may need the extra disruption once it is resolved, though sometimes it may be useful, but because the extra storm it can provide may be helpful in close matches).

I'm not still completely sold on the list I posted because I think that the meta will shift after RtR. We will see less Miracle decks and more BUG incarnations (which are also natural predators for us). If this happens we may neglect the CB hate in order to add some anti discard hate (maybe the Dark confidants should be welcomed once again to the board).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

P.S.side note: EE is being great for me not only as a nice general purppose anti hate card (dealing with Trinis, chalices, hate bears, P Pillars, ....) but it also helped me (before Decay) to deal with CB, plus it reveals as 0 CC with Ad Nauseam.

[heathen]

I know Chrome Mox gets a lot of criticism, but I've replaced a Burning Wish with a Chrome Mox in the GP Ghent list (so, 2 Chrome Mox and 2 Burning Wish main) and I'm liking the change. I don't run Grim Tutor in the side so my Burning Wishes are not as good as they would be with Grim Tutor, and the extra Chrome Mox makes my Ad Nauseams better. As long as I have a reasonable life total, I am comfortable casting Ad Nauseam with no mana floating because I know there are Petals and Chrome Moxen to get me going again.

I use Burning Wish rarely, and three of them in the main felt like too much. Often they feel like dead cards. I don't feel comfortable cutting them entirely, though.

Unrelated question: you're on the play, turn 1 of game 1 and you have a Cabal Therapy in hand but no Gitaxian Probe. You know your opponent is playing Dredge. What card do you name with Therapy?

[Fatal]

Lion's Eye Diamond for sure.

Reason - It only enabler for turn 1 insta go off, other target's aren't so good - for example cabal therapy is also dangerous but even if you discard it he still can cast Putrid Imp, discard dredgers/bridge then flashback it. Shooting Breakthrough/Fateless looting also doesn't bring enough good results.

[Tammit67]

Lion's Eye Diamond for sure.

Reason - It only enabler for turn 1 insta go off, other target's aren't so good - for example cabal therapy is also dangerous but even if you discard it he still can cast Putrid Imp, discard dredgers/bridge then flashback it. Shooting Breakthrough/Fateless looting also doesn't bring enough good results.

Agreed. If you stop the explosiveness, it is hard for them to strip your hand away in time.

Similarly, I'd play out as many of my artifact sources as I could before therapy gets active. Yes it can be nature's claimed this way, but they should absolutely have more important things to be doing than hoping to destroy an artifact after diluting their deck with artifact hate

[heathen]

What if you know they are playing a non-LED version of Dredge? Would you name Putrid Imp? Faithless Looting? Careful Study? Something else?

[Tammit67]

What if you know they are playing a non-LED version of Dredge? Would you name Putrid Imp? Faithless Looting? Careful Study? Something else?

Breakthrough would be my next name, as they still need speed. I don't see how relevant the non-LED version is these days, it is decidedly slower and has been uprooted by LED or manaless

[aaronm678]

If you guys could point out particular instances you notice that would be very helpful for those of us who are less experienced. I know I'd appreciate it.

I only saw the first couple games, but this is what I would have done differently.

Game 1

1) His hand was faster than any elves hand, even with Glimpse. On a therapy here, I'd name GSZ, since it was clear he was splashing, and his hand was going to have trouble beating Teeg.

In Game 2:

1) Against non-blue, you should board in Ill-Gotten Gains, and he also should have waited for another land drop/mana, as there wasn't really any reason to try there. His eventual line would have been something like BW -> Grim -> IGG -> Grim -> Tendrils, had he boarded correctly, he was very close to hitting this line.

2) Obviously he played his cards without thinking about his eventual line. After he realized he screwed up, he should have gone EtW probably (though against elves this is a little risky, since they can vomit out a lot of dudes).

If you guys could point out particular instances you notice that would be very helpful for those of us who are less experienced. I know I'd appreciate it.

I only saw the first couple games, but this is what I would have done differently.

Game 1

1) His hand was faster than any elves hand, even with Glimpse. On a therapy here, I'd name GSZ, since it was clear he was splashing, and his hand was going to have trouble beating Teeg.

In Game 2:

1) Against non-blue, you should board in Ill-Gotten Gains, and he also should have waited for another land drop/mana, as there wasn't really any reason to try there. His eventual line would have been something like BW -> Grim -> IGG -> Grim -> Tendrils, had he boarded correctly, he was very close to hitting this line.

2) Obviously he played his cards without thinking about his eventual line. After he realized he screwed up, he should have gone EtW probably (though against elves this is a little risky, since they can vomit out a lot of dudes).

EDIT:
Match 2 Game 1:
1) I'm not really sure why he just runs his second therapy into pierce -- pierce is fairly easy to play around, where he can combo off as soon as he finds a land or petal to get rid of snare through pierce. I think the ponder is much more expendable than the therapy here.

2) I wouldn't board in bob ever against a deck with bolt...there isn't any way he drops his bolts.

Game 2:

1) I definitely wouldn't turn 1 brainstorm here...you don't really gain anything from it, as his opponent was clearly playing a slow control deck. This was a pretty huge misplay, as it caused him in his 2nd turn to crack his scalding tarn when it was pretty clear his opponent was holding up stifle. It's much more powerful to be able to say Land -> Go on turn 2, where your opponent just isn't doing anything if he wants to leave up stifle. Also, his opponent was on such a slow deck, he can just sit with his fetch until his opponent does something, or until he draws a duress/therapy/etc.

In this match, I'm not sure game 1 was particularly winnable, but game 2 was VERY winnable had he played it correctly. His opponent wasn't doing anything the entire game, and he was just throwing away his cards trying to be too aggressive.


I'll probably try and edit the post when I can watch the rest.

[Sloshthedark]

I'll probably try and edit the post when I can watch the rest.

I'm in a half of it myself, it gets complicated against blue decks... it could be really interesting to discuss views on the plays in detail, which I find most interesting in the archetype and more beneficial then sharing minor decklist tweaks

[heathen]

... it could be really interesting to discuss views on the plays in detail, which I find most interesting in the archetype and more beneficial then sharing minor decklist tweaks

I completely agree with this. I'm also going to rewatch it as I find time. I probably won't be able to come up with good solutions, being inexperienced with the deck, but I'm sure I will at least have questions.

[emidln]

So, I've been playing this on Cockatrice:

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Snapcaster Mage

3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Swamp

SB: 3 Karakas
SB: 3 Virtue's Ruin
SB: 2 Tropical Island
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Duress

I've been using these sideboarding plans for g2. Game 3 depends on what I see in g2. For example, some maverick decks run Mindbreak Trap, so I need to bring back Therapy.

vs Maverick
--------------------------
-2 Snapcaster Mage
-4 Cabal Therapy
-3 Duress
-4 Gitaxian Probe
+4 Abrupt Decay
+1 Chain of Vapor
+3 Karakas
+3 Virtue's Ruin
+2 Tropical Island

vs RUG
----------
-1 Grim Tutor
-1 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Duress
+1 Tendrils of Agony

vs Miracles
--------------
-2 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Grim Tutor
-2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Island
-1 Swamp
+4 Abrupt Decay
+2 Tropical Island
+1 Duress

vs Dredge
-------------
-2 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Duress
+1 Chain of Vapor

Changes from last time:

-1 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Grim Tutor

I tested out a Grim Tutor and liked it. I don't think I'd want to draw the 2nd, but the first seems fine. I still like Snapcaster Mages, so two are still available.

Most of the Chain of Vapors, all the Wipe Aways, misc copies of EE and/or Dark Confidant are replaced by Abrupt Decay and lands to pay for it. It's really good. It's not optimal vs Maverick, but it's still better than a Duress is ever going to be. You still need Karakas/Virtue's Ruin for Maverick since getting BG can be tricky. In case you didn't notice, there is synergy between extra lands and Virtue's Ruin (which is the only 3 mana spell worth it vs them since it kills off all threats).

I haven't been able to experiment with Abrupt Decay vs RUG, but I'm not sure how many copies I'd really want. I sorta just want Trop Islands to beat Wasteland more often.

Swamp #2 seems to be suspect and may get swapped for a third sea or 9th fetch. I like having 4 basics, but I don't want 3 islands and the Swamp has caused me to mull some otherwise fine hands.

I won't give you percentages for this deck, but I believe it is the best thing you can be doing in legacy right now. I'd play it tomorrow. I recommend that you give it a try. It's fun, explosive, and does some very unfair things.

[bennotsi]

Great list emidln! Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on the use of Snapcaster Mage? I have never played with it in ANT, but at a first glance it seems a bit like a dead card to me.

Also, aren't you going a little overboard against Maverick? Boarding 13 cards against what isn't your most difficult matchup seems like a bit of overkill.

On the other hand, I get that you already run 4 Abrupt Decay and 3 Karakas in the board for the actually difficult matchups and therefore you might as well use them against Maverick too.

[Sloshthedark]

Inexperienced? The guy won the GP and played finals in a major European tournament.

I don't like Timo's list and think he is really lucky guy but I'm far from denying him experience, skills or results... I meant LSV, there you see what I meant inexperienced, that guy is a very good player (or obv. should be ;) after watching videos by Tom Martell I'm a bit skeptic) but just picking it up a deck that is not "standard magic" he doesn't feel the dynamic of the deck and what to expect

If you guys could point out particular instances you notice that would be very helpful for those of us who are less experienced. I know I'd appreciate it.

well I'd have to watch it all over again, and it's always a matter of playstyle and feeling and it's open to discussion, after reading aaronm678 post I decided to finish it as it became rather time consuming.. I hope a kept the ideas intact and without nonsense, but I'm unable to watch it all over again, the description may be somehow cryptic but you still have to watch the videos to know what I'm talking about so you will find out... I realized I would have made few mistake myself, anyway this is my point of view - here you go:

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-legacy-event/

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M1G1

7:15 If he wanted to Probe, he should have before Brainstorm or save 2 life, I'd probe before brainstorm

SB: I'm not sure how to sideboard with the list (op has white)... I'd probably go -BW -Duress +Iggy +CoV or -IT +Grim Tutor, -Duress +CoV


M1G2

-he plays and sacs the stuff and than counts... Ad nauseam off 9 life 1 floating 2LED, 1DR spent is not good option imho, although Timo would have killed that guy I'd prefer BW->Grim Tutor->BW->Empty the Warrens 16 tokens, 2xtherapy, 2x attack


M1G3

-I'd duress T1 (that's questionable, I prefer gaining threshold faster and effectively setting up for T2 kill off Brainstorm knowing Op hand), T2 ponder, keep fetch, T3 draw BS, fetch, than BS (hitting Petal, fetch, probe, ritual gives me threshold) and most likely Ad Nauseam with some B floating and Kill him

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M2G1

1:00 I would have Probed playing Underground sea, but not with Volcanic island so I'd draw a fetch from the ponder

1:31 that is real dilemma, the way he played it is kind of ok, but what if Opp did not Spell Pierce the Therapy? take Snapcasters (and have your cantrips countered) or Spell Pierces (and be under clock+Snaplock?) ... I'd likely ponder, if he Spell Pierces -> Therapy Snapcasters, if not do nothing/according to ponder

3:15 the plan should be BW for Duress, BS -> kill ...not IT-BS(wtf?) ... after wasteland and Standstill he should decide 1, long game - don't break Standstill for a loong time until you are ready/have to... or 2, break it - break it now with BS, if you draw a black mana source (and he would) in 2 cards you can Ad Nausem B floating Opp's only out is FoW, if not - just continue... I'd break it while he is tapped out LSV waits just few turns, his hand is no way better than before, and plays IT(why?), than could have fetched a basic swamp and have some chances with IT

SB: IT out? (he clearly doesn't like it), I'd go -Probe -Cabal -Chrome mox -lotus petal +3xDark Confidant +CoV as a standard or personally even -Ad Nauseam +EtW -BW +ToA -IT +Grim Tutor


M2G2

-T1 BS(wtf?) it's the worst opening you can choose, I'd go Tarn wait, or BS EoT if I had to... and there is not much reason to, I'd rather wait, you have all time in the world...
-in the BS obv. you want IT not BW...
-petal duress or fetch next upkeep, fails to do that once again
-actually you can run into stifle on purpouse and go petal->Cabal ritual, LED->IT->EtW if you had them in (that's why I prefer EtW main most G2 main)...

1:45 Surgical Extraction is REALY good agains ANT, opp played that early and poorly

-from wasteland onward it seems lost cause, interesting how all the happened in 2 turns, actually it's not lost, he still has infinite time, but triple BW is horrible

3:05 he has to play petal not LED, if countered, Snapcaster->Extraction would be really bad

7:27 real dillema, I'd go Volcanic island, you really want to eat some counters with BW, but only available is Badlands, Ponder eats REB anyway, I'd also fetch basic island (just to note badlands->naturally draw rituals line is possible)

8:19 it gets really complicated but you keep LED, Dark Confidant, ponder .. you really want the LED / mana and he has ratchet bomb in hand
- in case he doesn't play Standstill next turn, he will Snapcounterspell the Confidant(and you play LED, Cabal, IT->PiF, Cabal, IT->LED, BW->kill and hope he has nothing off possible Standstill)
- if he does play something/attack with Conclave, you still play Dark Confidant, as it enables Cabal therapy for Snapcaster and the line above

this all if he counters the Cabal therapy you're playing this turn for sure
- he might play Snapcaster on Stifle to not lose this turn (take Standstill)
- further you play depending on what you see in the hand = play confidant or go for the kill (likely under Standstill) which could or could not be neutralized be therapy...
-you can also go straight for the kill if he FoWs or you draw ritual/free spell = sac Confidant to Therapy, LED, Cabal, IT->IT-> Toa

= you keep LED from the Ponder =)

10:12 why therapy? you have to name Snapcaster and any other counterspell stops you, Snapcaster-stifle still a possibility (and you can't double Toa from this position), and you cannot go off this turn, so you save it for the next turn ... and better go BW (duress/IT), Ponder, he should counter the first if he has way to do so, and maybe REB the second, next turn you BW again or Therapy go for it

- interesting matchup, I like opponents deck; with PiF storm you should not lose G1 you have all time in the world and eventually roll over them with PiF
----------------------------------------------------------------------

M3G1

0:58 I'd be strongly tempted to fetch Underground sea, so you can setup nice semi-protected T2 kill, good player will not waste you after Ponder unless he has nothing else to play, so especially holding BS and Counterspell he won't
- a brainstorm later it's obvious it would have been better, he is all in on the first ritual, opp should (might not be so obvious after thinking it through) counter it and fails to do so...

SB: -Chrome mox -Probe -Ponder -Cabal ritual -BW -Ad Nauseam -IT +3Dark Confidant +CoV +EtW +Toa +Grim Tutor for me
- a little soft to expected Ethersworn Cannonist, keeping Ad Nauseam on play could be an option for me

- the other side of the story is here http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-legacy-event/
he doen't SB good - Zealous persecution should definitely be in, maybe -2 lands - jace +swords/jitte +persecution +BEB


M3G2

I'd take BW being the opponent (drawing LED = 12 goblins, has another discard spell)

0:52 if he has to he should BS off petal or keep it to hide things from discard or play petal+fetch and wait (and maybe run into SP), not sure what's right but I'd do the 1st, put back swamp and fetch, probe, fetch sea and ponder, keeping swamp instead of petal is not good imho

2:37 now the Petal would be better - you might Ponder into Therapy for SM and make 16 goblins

3:27 Iggy with ToA in hand is 1 storm short, Opp won't BS into it, with BW in hand you do not have R for second BW->ToA
- BW->duress might be an option for taking the equipment if opp BS and shuffle with SM... I'd shuffle the ponder though

4:32 Inquisition should take LED

6:11 Ad Nauseam would not be good, PiF is a sure kill unless he has Surgical Extraction, Ad Nauseam would mean hitting the last BW and enough mana to get around Extraction on either rituals
- shouldn't have sacrificed second LED, drawing IT or Pif is still an out


M3G3

- terrible hand on draw, keepable on play, with Dark ritual T2 EtW is possible
- fetch Sea obv., you can't capitalize on possible brainstorm/ponder, and volcanic off delta means the same/worse so you intend to fetch island ... btw. standard Esper plays 0-2 wasteland, mostly 1, unless played as a tempo with stifles which is rare

1:27 .. omg what did I just write =/ sigh...

1:52 fetch volcanic island? why? you get rid of shuffle effect with BS in hand into risk you tried T1 to avoid

2:46 BS EoT, what does that accomplish? opp shuffles that for you? LOL, crazy world (I'd put Pif then Island back)

5:19 interesting situation in the ponder - my plan? draw Petal, leave Ponder, ToA, attack, play Petal, play BW, sacrificing both LED or just one -> Toa for 8, next turn draw Ponder and ToA, attack, play Therapy+Toa or Therapy, Ponder into any manasource according to what you sacrificed, play it and ToA ... as I think about it I'd sac both LED into BW, as it goes around Spell pierce and next turn it's safer (therapy naming Spell pierce)... Surgical Extraction kills me, Snapcaster even more
-or simply sac Dark Confidant to therapy for Fow and EtW for 10 goblins which is better and I would have made the same mistake and run into FoW with my masterplan same as LSV did

9:44 fetch->ToA for 4, getting fresh cards is a better option imho

----------------------------------------------------------------------

M4G1

- probably mull 5, ok,
- I'd not fetch, chances on Wasteland are higher than Stifle and you show your colors

1:04 obviously name Breakthrough, once you realize it's non LED dredge (tribe, LED expensive on MTGO), I'd have missed with Faithless Looting (idea some dredges play less Breakthroughts led me there), which is bad call anyway, so as stated in some posts higher - name LED and Breakthrough as those are most troublesome

2:13 finaly he realizes IT is good, Therapy should name IT/LED, probably IT

4:20 I'd keep Ad Nausem, ship BW+IT, play Therapy ... that grants threshold so can next turn Ad Nauseam with floating (if land is played); keeping IT is the same but -2mana, would be better drawing another ritual (->PiF) which is less probable, you ignore Opp discard as he would name Cabal ritual anyway, no point hiding Ad Nauseam - keeping BW accomplishes nothing, you just bin it while tutoring for Ad Nauseam, it's better in the deck if you can float Red in the process somehow

6:11 - PIF line arises instantly in my mind (he ignores the card all the time), nice one with IGGY maybe better in vacuum

SB: -2BW -PiF -basic land -Ponder +2Cage +CoV +Grim Tutor +IGGY for me (or - 2 discard, but i like the former better, catching T2 spell is often crucial)


M4G2
note that IT -> Grafdiggers cage is an option

2:10 IT again

3:05 I'd Brainstorm here, definitely with my decklist, too many dead cards in hand, can't imagine what should be in Ponder not to shuffle (something like LED+IT)... this decision is somehow experience/playstyle based, can't really justify that =) it just works for me so
- I'd rather keep the ponder, draw fetch, next turn draw LED, fetch and BS

4:45 therapy should name cabal ritual, he doesn't know about the second BS
5:40 ponder first
6:40 fetch, ponder
7:45 should name Cabal ritual, not like that matters much
8:05 fetch, ponder

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[emidln]

Also, aren't you going a little overboard against Maverick? Boarding 13 cards against what isn't your most difficult matchup seems like a bit of overkill.

On the other hand, I get that you already run 4 Abrupt Decay and 3 Karakas in the board for the actually difficult matchups and therefore you might as well use them against Maverick too.

Maverick is an interesting situation in that they are much better at bringing two hatebears or MoM + hatebear to bear on you than you are at disrupting them. In fact, they are so good at it that they match us evenly, winning a lot of games on the play where they can put you on combo due to scouting/you opening on lotus petal/gitaxian probe. They typically have around 9 threats in g1, and then side in more stuff for us. This means you're likely losing 50% (this is actually a little lower, probably close to 40-45% due to mulligans, and them not playing optimally because of unknown information) without a sideboard when you lose the die roll. If you think Probe + Therapy is going to stop them from a turn 2 hate bear you're delusional.

Once you accept that they're going to have (a) hatebear(s), it's a matter of picking the most effective removal for the hatebear. Bounce spells are the worst unless you're going to win before they get a turn 3 via bounce + combo every game (hint: you won't). Ideally you want something permanent. Permanents answers look like Dread of Night/Darkblast, Massacre, Virtue's Ruin/Infest, Engineered Explosives, and Karakas (which is pseudo-permanent). It's even better if your permanent answer can get around Mother of Runes/Sylvan Safekeeper (Darkblast is bad here, as is Abrupt Decay) and that it doesn't get stopped by hatebears they already play (Massacre/EE), although you can still play some of these, you just need another plan for Teeg. Even Virtue's Ruin isn't perfect, since, while it only costs a single black, it does cost 3 to start which means Thalia + Wasteland can really hamper it as a plan (however, for that 3-4 mana, you wrath them, buying a lot of time).

My mix breaks down like this:

Karakas - bounces Teeg/Thalia (maindeck threats, 8-10 copies postboard), casts Virtue's Ruin, misses Canonist / Thorn / Stony Silence / Mindbreak Trap
Virtue's Ruin - kills all hatebears, misses Thorn / Stony Silence / Mindbreak Trap
Abrupt Decay - kills all hatebears, although is nullified by Mom/Safekeeper, kills Thorn/Stony Silence
Chain of Vapor - bounces any permanent hate, nullified by Mom/Safekeeper

If I find out something like Mindbreak Trap is being played, I can downgrade some number of decays and chain into Therapies.

I don't believe it would be profitable to maindeck solutions to Maverick (even with it being a significant metagame force). This is because the cards you need to maindeck are really bad in other matchups and contribute to the combo very little. You would likely want 8 effective ways of dealing with hatebears, and I don't see how we can do that consistently on the draw without playing Decays, Chains, or Karakas maindeck. To do so, I'd need to cut down on utility cards that are good in almost every matchup and smooth the deck (Snapcaster Mage, Grim Tutor) or discard spells (it's often important to be able to use two against a blue deck, and 7 + 2 snapcasters seems just right).

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on the use of Snapcaster Mage? I have never played with it in ANT, but at a first glance it seems a bit like a dead card to me.

Snapcasters do a lot of things:

• block (and sometimes kill think Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist)
• flashback therapy
• filter mana (blue/white/red into black)
• add mana (flashback Cabal Rit w/Thresh or allow using LED to cast Ad Naus)
• draw cards at different pricepoints/situations (flashback brainstorm, ponder, probe)
• disrupt twice (flashback duress, flashback therapy sac'ing snapcaster)
• double tendrils
• whittle opponents life (they can even turn sideways, lessening required storm)

They do this all while adding potentially significant storm (consider Snapcaster on a Ritual followed by Therapy +3 mana, filter blue into black)

[aaronm678]

Slosh, that is really awesome, you went way more all out than I did. I agree that analyzing plays like this is much more helpful than arguing over the last 2 or 3 slots in the list.

When you run grim in the sb with the bw version, why would you board out an infernal for it? It seems to me like if you're boarding out anything for it, it should be another bw. Talking about M2 alternate sb.

[guillemnicolau]

My mix breaks down like this:

Karakas - bounces Teeg/Thalia (maindeck threats, 8-10 copies postboard), casts Virtue's Ruin, misses Canonist / Thorn / Stony Silence / Mindbreak Trap
Virtue's Ruin - kills all hatebears, misses Thorn / Stony Silence / Mindbreak Trap
Abrupt Decay - kills all hatebears, although is nullified by Mom/Safekeeper, kills Thorn/Stony Silence
Chain of Vapor - bounces any permanent hate, nullified by Mom/Safekeeper

Why not Wipe Away? I've been playing with 2 in the side since the re-rising of counterbalance and they are really useful, bouncing anything that bother's you, and without having to play green (that's really important).

About the snapcaster's, I had already thought about it and I'll give them a try, as a 2-3 of in the side, they seem tasty... (I would probably change the wipe's for chain of vapors)

[emidln]

I played Wipe Away before. It is serviceable, but Abrupt Decay is much better. I splash green solely for Abrupt Decay because of how insane it is against CB decks while being clutch in most other matchups as well.

[Dark Ritual]

Why not Wipe Away? I've been playing with 2 in the side since the re-rising of counterbalance and they are really useful, bouncing anything that bother's you, and without having to play green (that's really important).

About the snapcaster's, I had already thought about it and I'll give them a try, as a 2-3 of in the side, they seem tasty... (I would probably change the wipe's for chain of vapors)

Ummmm wipe away does not work against a savvy CB player who floats a 3. Abrupt decay simply answers it no matter what while being versatile in just about every other matchup. So you have to play green, who cares? Wipe away is a card I can't stand at all and abrupt decay is just infinitely superior to it. Test with wipe away against CTop, then test with decay against CTop. One is clearly superior to the other and even better is that countertop decks don't even run wasteland so boarding in two nonbasics for 2 basics is basically an upgrade. Abrupt decay also works much better against thalia versus wipe away as 3 mana versus 4 mana is an enormous difference. Play the card if you want but then you'll be losing percentage points due to playing a suboptimal sideboard.

Also if you paid attention a few pages ago emidln had wipe away in his SB. Then abrupt decay was spoiled. Moments later wipe away was no longer a card. Funny how that works.

Non LED Dredge is called manaless dredge, and if you can't win against manaless dredge I pity you as they are a lot slower than us. Dredge decks with lands and such always pack LED because of how good LED is after looting and in terms of how much faster it makes the deck overall. Winning on turn 1 is always nice in legacy no matter how you slice it.

[Sloshthedark]

@emidln - Maverick SB is overkill, but why not (I play Deed btw. =D)... I'd rather prefer 1 Etw, 1 Extirpate/2nd ToA somewhere...
why 2 Trops and not Trop/Bayou split?
I understand why they are good, still you board out both Snapcasters most time...

When you run grim in the sb with the bw version, why would you board out an infernal for it? It seems to me like if you're boarding out anything for it, it should be another bw. Talking about M2 alternate sb.

TNX,

Extirpate, BW-IT->PiF loop is possible (costs the same as Grim-Pif Loop), Grim tutor searches lonely Chain of Vapor

I'd board into 5 tutors only when speed is needed and EtW are not good enough = TES, Dredge