Want to post your full list? Did you run E. Plague like I was suggesting?
-Matt
Hey guys, just wanted to check in with a few things:
1) Blood Moon is the nuts against BUG. Played a bunch of test matches against various builds, usually game over if you can stick it, as they cast no spells the rest of the game.
2) I saw some discussion of updating the primer a few pages ago. If nobody else is doing it I'm happy to write an updated Primer / history of the deck and keep it updated, as I'm fairly invested in the archetype.
3) Here's my updated UWr list for any interested. After some testing, Venser is the real deal, and I can see the appeal of the second Karakas.
UWr Miracles - Maindeck
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
1 Trinket Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blood Moon
3 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Moat
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
Last edited by alphastryk; 12-17-2012 at 09:37 PM.
You forgot to list 3 JTMS?
haha, yes I did. Edited now, thanks.Originally Posted by dsck
I'm perfectly cool with this. It's just a question of speaking to Hanni or a moderator to have them update the actual post for you. I would receive permission before you work on the update so that your work is not in vain.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
Grettings All!
I just ran UW Miracle Control at my Legacy locals last night. I had been playing delver for awhile, but recently decided it was time to shake things up. I went 3-0-1, prize splitting in the last round. I played against mono-black zombie tribal (2-0), TES (2-0), Maverick (2-1), and RUG (1-1-1). Overall I was pretty happy with the deck; see my list below:
Maindeck-60
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
3 Rest in Peace
2 Energy Field
1 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Force of Will
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
6 Islands
3 Plains
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
Sideboard-15
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Detention Sphere
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
I know that there are a few portions of the deck that might be a bit loose. The first being only Entreat the Angels as the only CMC=3 in the maindeck for the Counterbalance soft lock. The second is that I don't yet own a Karakas. I am pretty sure my brother bought me one for Christmas... a few more days. The third is my inclusion of Batterskull in the sideboard over Baneslayer Angel, I haven't gotten around to fully tweaking the list yet. Overall even with those issues, the deck ran pretty well.
Round 1 - Ian with monoblack Zombie Tribal (2-0)
This match went basically as you would expect it to. He played a bunch of guys out and I use Swords to slow down his clock until I can totally reset his board with Terminus. In game one, I was able to back to back Terminus for 3 creatures and then 2 creatures, leaving him empty handed. I think I stabilized at 7 life in game one. In game two, he had a slower hand which was pretty rough for him as I was able to get Jace online and brainstroming to set both Entreats to nulify his board state. He made a wild attack, which I was able to totally blow out with a StP on a Undead Warchief. I stabilized at a healthy 17 life with Jace, Elspeth, and an army of angels.
Round 2 - TES (2-0)
I was pretty sure I was going to lose game one after a Gitaxian Probe followed by and Cabal Therapy took out the Spell Pierce in my opener. I was able to Brainstorm into Spell Pierce and Counterspell... These held him at bay while I kept digging frantically with my Top. After about 6-8 turns, I found a Counterbalance. He tried to play through it, but that was a loosing proposition. He scooped without me showing him a win condition after a 30 minute grindfest. Game two my opener was the legit nuts, 3 land, Spell Pierce, Top, Counterbalance, and a Brainstorm. He leads off again with the Probe into Therapy play, taking my Pierce. I play top and pass. He plays a Dark Confidant, which is kind of scary as I boarded out StP keeping in 3 Terminus and bringing in 2 Explosives to deal with goblin tokens mainly. I jam Counterbalance on my next turn, hoping he doesn't sacrifice Bob, taking my FoW and comboing. He does not do this... I manage to untap with the soft lock and counter basically ever play he tries to make for the rest of the game. I Helm combo him on turn 1 of extra turns and win the game on turn 2.
Round 3 - Tom playing Maverick (2-1)
Game one was pretty sick as the deck played like a combo deck. I was able to StP a Knight on turn 2, play a Rest in Peace on turn 4, and Helm him on turn 5. Seriously game one took all of about 3 minutes. Game two was similar as I mulliganed a risky one lander into a keepable 6 card hand. I drew lands for the rest of game two and quickly died to his second Knight. Game three was pretty awesome. It was a grind and I probably can't remember all of the exact details... but he ran out a turn two Aven Mindcensor off of a Nobel. At this point I had not played a fetch and was stuck trying to find a white source to deal with the 3 damage a turn coming my way. I end up cracking my fetch and luckily finding a Plains with lethal on the board in the next combat. I get the Plains and spin my Top, finding a Terminus, which puts me right back in the driver's seat as he had emptied his hand. I attrition out his creatures to a point where he is topdecking and I am just spinning Top trying to find a win con. He reestablishes a board presence and has leathal on me with a Knight. I top into RiP and Helm at the end of his turn and have exactly 7 mana on the table... So Helm combo brought home another win.
Round 4 - PJ on RUG (1-1-1)
We intentionally drew but played a few games for fun. This MU from this side is all able getting enough land from what I gathered. There were games where he was able to Stifle me and it hurt a lot. In one case, a single Stifle was able to win him a game.
Overall I was pretty happy with the deck. It played pretty well. I was never able to get RiP + Energy Field online. This might be a product of my cutting of the Enlightened Tutor(s) but as the results show, Terminus and Verdict did a fine job at keeping me alive. Helm combo was pretty much the nuts. I won more games Helming opponents out over Entreat or Jace. I will pose this thought about the RUG matchup, are you guys running a one of Mountain to stay Wateland proof? I felt a bit exposed in my RUG games with Volcanics and Fetches as my only ways to make/get to red mana. Otherwise my other queston would be able thoughts on sideboards. I new I was going into a largely aggro meta so my deck/sb reflect that. Could you guys shoot me some ideas on other cards for the board? I would appreciate that. Anyway thanks for the read.
Legacy
Grixis Delver
Vintage
Mono Mentor
Team Leovold
Sulfur Elemental: I play 3 in my Sideboard, sometimes I up the count to 4. Simply because this card is awesome. Supersuperawesome. It does the following:
1) Break Mother of Runes + Gaddock Teeg lock, which is basically gg. When you play Elemental in your deck you never ever have to Swords a Mother again.
2) Deals with Lingering Souls like a boss. Esperstoneblade is one of the toughest MUs, partly because of Lingering Souls. Well, you just got an uncounterable answer that wins games out of nowhere.
3) Blocks Nimble Mongoose like a Champ while being uncounterable. Though it can still be bolted.
4) Wins some matches against any deck that boards out removal. I had elelmental win matches vs NicFit or Bant Control simply because it was an uncounterable dude and the opponent had no removal left in his deck.
Orim's Thunder: An underdog card, useful for UWr-versions, obv.
Peacekeeper: Oh you boarded your removal out? Well thats game, then.
Humility (when packing Mishra's Mainboard).
-All my statements were made under the assumption that I am talking about UWr Miracle, I have no experience with any RIP/Helm/Field - buid.
Greetings
Maybe I've just been lucky, but not only have I come back from Liliana, I've come back from getting ultimated by Liliana almost every time I've faced her so far. (Admittedly, I haven't been doing formal playtesting against her, so it's not like I've faced her down many times.)
My strategy is basically if I can't get rid of her, to use Top to filter for permanents I can put into play (like lands, CB, Jace, more tops), and flip my Top(s) in response to her ultimate. The only permanents I'm usually left with that matter are Jace and lands. A think a wise opponent will make me choose between the two (in which case I'd probably choose the lands, unless Jace was near ultimate and I thought I could protect him). What they've ended up doing is offer me Jace plus a land or two and the rest of my lands (and maybe CB or something if it's out). In that case I take the Jace, because between the Top(s) and Jacestorming, I stand a good chance of recovering.
Overall, the Top is boss against the controllish BUG, because it lets you work around their discard. You have a virtual extra 3 cards that they can't touch, so when both players hands are empty, you actually can have the advantage.
I also have been playing 3 Mishra's main, in lieu of a color splash (I'm pure U/W), which can chew up planeswalkers after a fresh Terminus/Verdict, especially if they're playing a list with no Wastelands. (Just don't make the mistake of activating all your manlands in the face of a Pernicious Deed.) I also have Jace Beleren in the SB (currently 2, thinking of dropping it to 1 to make some room for Spell Snare), which may make the Jace war a little better (plus a Detention Sphere main and 2 O-Rings side).
I don't think CB is bad because of Abrupt Decay for the reasons stated above, but I also don't mind siding some or all out if I have better cards to bring in. I've also been considering Misdirection/Divert/Redirect, but I haven't done any testing with those yet. My thinking is that they're probably good, but I'm not sure they're good enough to make room in my SB for them. OTOH, they can also serve as defensive counterspells, Sneak Show style, so maybe they are worth it. I'll be interested to see others' reports using them.
Divert especially caught my interest, but I don't know where exactly I could afford to make room. I'm not sure how bad Abrupt Decay really is when we can bring in stuff like Baneslayer Angel that just goes over the top. Turning their Abrupts into 2-for-1s for us doesn't seem bad though. Maybe it'd be possible to switch around the countersuite to make it a 2-of MD?
After months of not playing the deck, i'll be running Miracle Blade today and i'm stoked! Here is the list i'm going to play:
4 Sensei's Diving Top
3 CounterBalance
3 FoW
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Entreat
3 Jace
4 Stoneforge
2 Snapcaster
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
9 Fetchlands
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Lingering Souls
2 Flusterstorm
2 EE
1 Supreme Verdict
1 O RIng
1 Humility
3 Rest in Peace
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Counterspell
I decided to eschew red in favor of black for the Lingering Souls against the control MU. I've been on Esper for a while, so I respect the card highly. Ghostly Prison is excellent against Goblins, which is always a reasonable expectation for my metagame. Four Stoneforge Mystics might be too many and I possibly do not have enough creatures for any more than the Batterskull in the main. If that's the case, I might cut 1 Stoneforge and the Jitte for 1 Snapcaster and one Vindicate, moving the Jitte to the side for the Counterspell. I'll try to give a report on how it goes after.
edit: I also decided not to run discard in the board because I think it does nothing in a deck like this which cannot apply pressure to abuse the information.
I ended up going 2-1. I ended up making the changes I discussed in addition to adding 1 FoW for a land, bringing my total to 21. Here is the report:
Round 1: Devin (a good friend of mine) playing Shapewish:
The specifics of this game 1 are lost on me. I eventually set up Jace to kill him with Jace.
Game 2 I had an early Top, which is what I always want, so I felt good here. I set up a Vendilion Clique/Karakas lock on him and he eventually gets out but it kept him on literal no action for a very long time. I then had to fight through a Primeval Titan that I could have countered, but he would have returned it every turn with Volrath's Stronghold, so I let him get the lands, dropped to 4 (dead to a mountain because of 2 Valakuts) and Terminused on my draw. Eventually I drew a Jace and let him keep everything that wasn't a mountain because I only lost to a mountain. This Match-up is scary because sometimes you're just dead out of nowhere.
Round 2: Kevin with High Tide
Game 1 I kept an alright hand and he mulliganed. On turn 3 I went to Vendilion Clique him, took his Time Spiral and he had a second on top. If I took his High Tide I would have been alright, but in that match-up you always take Time Spiral if you can.
Game 2 I kept a spicy hand of Flusterstorm and Snapcaster and figured i'd get there on that. I flusterstormed a Merchant Scroll (which he desperately needed to resolve) and then he landed a Defense Grid. I drew a Jace the turn after and could no longer play the counterspell game so I ran it out, which he couldn't counter because of the grid, and let him keep another Grid on top and then just fatesealed him out.
Game 3 I my opening hand was 5 lands, Clique, and Counterbalance! It was sketchy but I know how good CB is in this match-up and I play so many spells to manipulate my library. I draw FoW on turn 2, I land CB on turn 2 while he's digging, draw a FoW on 3, Clique him on 3, to which he Tides in response to which I flip a Jace on top, so I force it. I then take his Meditate and proceed to beat him down. I play a Karakas and slam Jace and Brainstorm into a 0 and two 3 drops (the two left in the deck!). I put both 3s on top and counter the Cunning Wish I knew he had. The rest of this game was just me drawing a bunch of brainstorms and countering all of his spells while beating him down with the Clique. After the game he told me I should have been Cliqueing him every turn with Karakas, but I think that's wrong. If he countered my Clique at any point, I was screwed out of a clock, so I played it safe.
Round 3: James with BUG
Both of these games were very boring.
Game 1 He played a turn 2 Liliana, had a 1-of Daze to counter my Force of Will, ultimated Liliana 3 times and eventually played a huge Goyf.
Game 2 I kept a good hand of 3 lands, top, Jace, Clique, and a STP. He Thoughseizes my Clique, wastelands my nonbasic and I get stuck on two lands for the next 10 minutes and lose. BUG might be a bad match-up.
Overall I really enjoyed the deck. I think I played it fairly well and lost to variance, but that happens and I can't complain. I think i'll play the deck again next week for the hell of it.
lololol
that first game was so dumb lol.
Something I wrote about trying to beat abrupt decay. Anyone with other ideas, please volunteer them.
http://blog.mtgdeals.com/oarsman/mir...-abrupt-decay/
Thanks Joe!
I enjoy reading your articles.
Two questions:
1) Where are the Meddling Mages in your sb?
2) At what point do you think Linvala replaces Baneslayer as an answer to Deathrite and/or Delver and/or Noble Hierarch, Knight of the Reliquary, Carrion Feeder, and a host of other activated abilities?
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
one: I am an idiot. I pasted my old list and then made the changes, and missed that one. The mages replace the 3 blasts. I altered the article so it is correct now. Sorry about that.
two: That's interesting. Baneslayer does the most work against rug delver (where linvala would be much worse), but I feel like rug delver is probably not as prominent now as it was a couple months ago. Linvala is probably better against maverick and elves. Against BUG I am not sure, although I think baneslayer is better. Deathrite is really good, and Linvala shuts it down. But if Baneslayer is in play, I would imagine that most of the time I no longer care about active Deathrite.
About the second play mistake. Just write down on scratch pad what is on the top. Who cares if they see you do this, after what you write coincides with what they play you can start writing down the wrong number to screw with them. People are pretty trusting.
Don't be so hard on yourself!
It's a good point about Linvala coming to the party a little late. Linvala and Baneslayer do fill functionally dissimilar roles (perhaps with a little overlap in that they are rather large flyers that do not succumb to Abrupt Decay.) Perhaps the plan vs. BUG is to focus on creature and graveyard removal, thus rendering Linvala excessive. Do you bring in GY hate vs. BUG? Moat? I could see both being good, although I hesitate to bring in E. Tutor.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
My inclination would be to board out Counterbalance and bring in Baneslayer, Venser, and Supreme Verdict... maybe a Spell Snare or two. That unfortunately makes bringing in Rest in Peace pretty bad since it becomes the only target for Abrupt Decay besides Clique.
Divert becomes dead really quickly because of Deathrite, so unless it is a super land-lite build, it can be awkward. Likewise, Redirect is very clunky except against the more mid-late game BUG decks. Misdirection is probably the best all around. If you save the Counterbalance then the loss of CA doesn't matter as much. On the other hand, it can be that much more of a blow out. I think going this route is more practical if there ever becomes more of a "stock" BUG list.
Moat seems pretty bad since the only thing it stops is Goyf. Bob isn't too popular now. Tombstalker, Delver, and Deathrite all make it through.
Meddling Mage is probably your best bet if you want to leave in Counterbalance (or bring in Rest in Peace), and has value in combo MU's. I feel like Baneslayer is a big enough problem for them though that you don't have to rely on the Counterbalance soft lock. Just watch out for the mise Dismember... Maybe if you see them reboarding for g3, you can sneak back in a few Counterbalance.
Have you considered moving the enlightened tutor from the sideboard to the main removing a top? I'm going to test the following list:
2 Snapcaster mage
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser Shaper Savant
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Force of Will
3 Terminus
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Karakas
2 Plains
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
SIDEBOARD:
1 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
1 Divert
1 Back to Basics
1 Enligthened Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Moat
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Detention Sphere
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Rest in Peace
2 Baneslayer Angel
Playing 2 E. Tutor in the overal 75 allows us to hit with a back to basics against RUG or BUG. Maybe I should add more basics but a timely played back to basics wins games vs those decks. Also adding the second E. Tutor will help us to find Moat vs Goblins and Rest in Peace vs graveyard decks. 4 Tops are a bit too much when you draw the second one instead of the counterbalance. E. Tutor can be both the top or the balance we need.
Divert/misdirection I have to test them but running 2 e. tutor in my list I don't want more card disadvantage so I just added a Divert. What do you think about my list?
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