Positively, and suspect my opinion is the majority.
Negatively, and suspect my opinion is the majority.
Positively, and suspect my opinion is the minority.
Negatively, and suspect my opinion is the minority.
Indifferent, and suspect my opinion is the majority.
Indifferent, and suspect my opinion is the minority.
If it was in their best interest to abolish the reserve list, without long term repercussions, they would have done so.Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
A handout is exactly what you are asking for.
Yes, no one ever does anything ever save that it is in their own best interests, that's a good and certainly not a morbidly stupid point you just made.
Yes, suggesting that Wizards care for their own bottom line and the health of the format is certainly sponging for reasons I'm sure you'll make clear, because it's not like you're just talking out of your ass or anything like that.A handout is exactly what you are asking for.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
OK Jack. You're one hundred percent correct and never wrong so I'll just cease my attempt at having a civil discussion with you. For what it's worth I always assumed businesses were out to make money, my assumption that Hasbro operated under this theory is clearly absurd.
I know, let's play a fun game of "Try to spot the fallacy"!
I assume people are trying to live long, happy lives, therefore I assume people never make decisions that are contrary to this. Because smoking is very unhealthy I therefore assume no one smokes. Clearly I have proven that no one smokes and will now scoff at anyone who suggests that smokers exist.
Scoff scoff.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Hasbro usually does what will bring them the most money. This can be an example of them making a mistake or just having run some calculations and found that it would have an uncertain effect on the new format they're making a big deal out of instead.
Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant are both being reprinted for MM, a set with less availability than usual, for the first time. They are being printed at a higher rarity (the highest rarity) with no justification based on rules complexity, actual flavour or limited playability but only as a way to decrease the amount available and thus the impact they would have on the already established price. Force of Will and Wasteland both remain un-reprinted despite there being nothing that stands in the way of WotC doing that in the same way they are doing what they can to make as few copies of Goyf and Bob available without messing with new rarities. There is no reason to believe that WotC will flood the market with anything.
Now now, to be fair, none of us have any idea why Hasboro did what they did, or to what extent their shadowy hands pull the strings of Magic.
Even to suggest that the decision was make by a cognizance person requires some amount of faith that it wasn't one of four supercomputers orbiting the Earth. The whole discussion is steeped in supposition, which is why it can sustain itself indefinitely.
It only gets boring when there is nobody to represent the dissenting opinion, which is hard enough when they represent an established ~10%
How would I feel if Wizards got rid of the Reserved List? I wouldn't care, since I would have recently used my lottery winnings to buy a private island in the South Pacific, from which I would quietly rule the world.
Actually, I'd say those things you just mentioned are good justifications for them to be mythic rares.
Though if they make Thoughtseize a mythic, that would be for no other reason than to try to protect its price.
He's saying those justifications don't apply in these cases.
And I'm saying I think they do.
Side note:Actually, it's a bit worse than that.
The people who defend the Reserved List seem to be those who "bought in" to the format when it was cheaper. Higgs, for example, stated he did it several years ago. So it's not saying others have to pay a similar price. It's saying that others have to pay a higher price. Makes me wonder if people who defend the Reserved List on the grounds that they paid such and such for their cards would be willing to pay a yearly upkeep for how much the cards have increased in price? Because, I mean, they're asking everyone else to do it.
In all seriousness, rather then focusing on one extreme of the other, couldn't Wizards agree to revise the reserved list? Rather than abolishing it completely, they could revise it to:
ABU:
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Time Walk
Time Vault
Timetwister
ARB:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Library of Alexandria
ANT:
Mishra's Workshop
or something of that nature? Most of the iconic, non-legacy playable cards that hold extreme value would be unaffected.
I would assume out of all the cards AVAILABLE to be reprinted, these would be the controversial ones:
10 Dual Lands
The Abyss
Chains of Mephistopheles
Moat
Nether Void
The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale
Gaea's Cradle, other $50+ cards from 95-99
and mostly because of their current price and the fact that they can be played in Legacy.
As long as Wizards released cards slowly, IE, we might see 1-2 of these heavy hitters in the run of a year (maybe an exception made for duals through a commander product), and the market wouldn't collapse. I'm sure there would be some initial hits of value, even before anything was announced to actually be reprinted, but with the potential for cheaper alternatives, more people would invest in legacy, values would rise, yadda yadda yadda. It would also give Wizards some flexibility in changing up modern from time to time
Tarmogoyf is actually pretty bad in Limited. In many cases, he's worse than Elvish Warrior until later in the game, and then he's just a midsize vanilla dude.
I was actually referring more to complexity. (and uniqueness)
The fact is, there is no other card in the game I can think of that really does what Tarmogoyf does. Yes, there are other Lhurgoyf cards, but nothing that counts the types of cards or anything similar (everything else is just "number of <insert card type here>" rather than number of types). It's easier to just count the number of creatures in graveyards than it is to work out which number of types are represented. No other card in the game requires you to keep track of the things Tarmogoyf requires you to keep track of. It's a quite unique card, and to be honest I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been a mythic rare had said rarity existed back then (thankfully, it didn't).
So okay, goyf counts card types in graveyards. That isn't very complicated. All goyf cards cares about one card type and plenty of other creatures care about card types as well. Tarmogoyf is just a slight tweak to that formula. It deserves to be a rare but not more than that.
Neither goyf nor bob are crazy in limited. They're semi-playable to playable at best. Neither of them have huge impact or the kind of "woah!" flavour you expect out of a mythic. Progenitus, for example, is mythic in both mechanics and flavour. Lotus Cobra isn't super amazing in limited and only barely manages to be a mythic due to its reference to Black Lotus. Goyf and Bob don't have that sort of thing going for them. They're only good in constructed. They're amazing in the right format, sure, but so is Snapcaster and that certainly isn't mythic-worthy.
There are only two reasons for these two cards being mythic and that is either to sell more packs (as if this set could do anything but sell out rapidly) and/or to keep the secondary market prices from decreasing too much.
You say plenty of other creatures care about card types as well. Name one other card that cares about card types in the same way as Tarmogoyf.
No, it's a bit more than that. It's certainly more complex, both in terms of using (figuring out the number of different types tends to be trickier than just counting up a particular type) and in deck construction. Something like Magnivore is just "hey, stick me in a deck with a lot of Sorceries." Tarmogoyf is, if you ask me, quite a bit more complicated to build around. It's not a singular type of card you're trying to build around, it's to have as many varied types as reasonably possible. There's really nothing else in the game I can think of that has that kind of effect.Tarmogoyf is just a slight tweak to that formula.
Dark Confidant's ability seems reasonably mythic to me, personally, though admittedly that is a bit of a subjective matter. In terms of actual cards, they seem a bit wishy-washy about it, putting Dark Tutelage at Rare and Duskmantle Seer at Mythic. I think it's one of those cards that could really go either way reasonably.Neither goyf nor bob are crazy in limited. They're semi-playable to playable at best. Neither of them have huge impact or the kind of "woah!" flavour you expect out of a mythic. Progenitus, for example, is mythic in both mechanics and flavour. Lotus Cobra isn't super amazing in limited and only barely manages to be a mythic due to its reference to Black Lotus. Goyf and Bob don't have that sort of thing going for them. They're only good in constructed. They're amazing in the right format, sure, but so is Snapcaster and that certainly isn't mythic-worthy.
A special set like Modern Masters shouldn't even have Mythic Rares.
The reserved list sucks.
You know what else sucks?
Waiting 15 years for WotC to reprint Force of Will and Wasteland outside of a Judge promo. As soon as these reprints come then and only then will I be convinced that WotC cares at all about the Legacy community. In the mean time, I wouldn't stay up all night wondering when WotC will abolish the reserve list just because Legacy players are so swell.
It isn't a mindblowing concept. It's a fairly simple evolution of the lhurgoyf effect. Mythics overwhelmingly have a feel to them that makes people perk up and take a closer look out of awe. Dictating who can win or lose, gaining tremendous amounts of life, becoming absolutely enormous Tarmogoyf is much too subtle to be a good mythic. Contrast it with Lord of Extinction, which just straight up counts all cards in every graveyard and becomes enormous due to it.
Dark Confidant's ability is only rare-worthy, as evidenced by Dark Tutelage which does the same thing only as an enchantment. Duskmantle Seer triggers for all players and can win just like that through its own ability by automatically and for no mana causing opponents to lose life. It wouldn't surprise me if its effects on limited had something to do with it as well.
Confidant and Tarmogoyf are certainly not mythic worthy. The only reason is to sell more packs and to protect collectors. If you think that's not the case, you must either be blind or think that wotc is a charity.
How much product is there even going to be? That alone makes rarity far less applicable. As an example Command Tower is listed on the low-end as a 4 dollar common, and unlike other "only good in EDH" cards, it literally does not do anything at all outside of EDH, so it cannot be a factor of its demand in the same way like something like a Taiga is desirable in every format it is legal in. But it is listed as a common. Common compared to what? Every precon had a Sol Ring too; it's literally no 'rarer' than any other Commander product that was only printed in a precon. It's practically irrelevant.
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