Team America finally gets its own Mongoose / Sulfuric Vortex:
nemesis of identity 1UU
Merfolk rogue
When ~~ enters the battlefield, choose a player.
~~ has protection from chosen player (It can't be blocked, targeted, damaged, enchanted by a source controlled by this player)
3/1.
(early spoiler from the Commander set)
Ramping to 3 for TA is hardly an issue, and that's generally the point at which Mongoose becomes a real threat anyways.
A few major advantages:
1. Immune to GY Hate. Important for a deck that has a lot of its creatures heavily affected by stuff like Rest in Peace.
2. It's Blue. Maintaining a high Blue count is important for a 3-color deck that runs FoW.
3. Progenitus-like resiliency makes it just as good on defense as it is on offense. Especially good for holding off a Batterskull token while your Delvers/Stalkers get in for the kill. It also offers a solution to Mirran Crusader, which has been seeing a lot of play recently.
Swords to Plowshares was ALWAYS a problem for TA, since it lacked a maindeck shroud creature and doesn't have Burn to close out a stalled board state.
This is a card that should definitely be under consideration. Before this was spoiled, I was 99% sure that I was going to run BUG Cascade for the GP this November. Now I might need to reconsider going back to good ol' TA.
I think I would run 2-3 in the maindeck, likely replacing Tombstalker. Sure, it's a little slower than the demon in closing out a game, but it offers more inevitability. Testing will tell if more are warranted in the sideboard for your control matchups.
This is awesome!!!!!!
Don't forget Crusader has double strike. I guess if you're talking about offense, this guy is awesome though.
It doesn't matter. If it blocks a Crusader, Crusader's damage (both times) is reduced to zero since it is a source controlled by your opponent.Originally Posted by akatsuki
This guy pretty clearly competes with Clique and Tombstalker for creatures 13 and 14. I'm not sure any of the three have a clear advantage over the other two. I think it's a two part question:
1) Is this guy better than Clique, and
2) Is the 1UU creature better than Tombstalker?
I know most lists run Tombstalker over Clique in the maindeck. It's at least an interesting option for Team America (and maybe it can be debated instead of Stifle vs. Thoughtseize vs. Hymn for a few days!).
InfoNinjas
It sucks he can't be foiled.. I may stick with my tombstalkers just for that reason.....
...Is that wrong?
I also really like the new sweeper:
Toxic Deluge
2B
Sorcery
Pay X life, creatures get -X/-X
It's a wrath effect at a reasonable cost that can (sometimes) selectively not kill your own dudes. It can come in against every creature matchup to supplement your targeted removal. It solves the dilemma of choosing between Perish and Virtues Ruin, while also being serviceable against stuff like Merfolk, Goblins, Affinity, etc. The life loss can be mitigated by your Shamans.
With this card and True Name Nemesis added to the Legacy card pool, BUG seems to be the strongest all-around color combination. The question is, do you want to have a better game against combo or against midrange/Aggro? That's the main deciding factor between TA and BUG Cascade.
Ok, at first sight, Nemesis of Identity seemed pretty good, but the more I think about it, the more overpowered it seems! I'm going to participate at Bazaar of Moxen in two weeks and I'll definitely play TA. But do you really think that it fulfills the role of Tombstalker so easily? Tombstalker is just so much bigger! And if yes, would you rather have stifles than discard? I've been very certain about my Maindeck configuration but considering this new card unhinges me. I'll pack at least 2 Golgari Charm + Infest in my SB.
Btw I really like this creature with Oonas Blackguard and Cavern of Souls ;)
Wouldn't discard be favorable w/ nemesis since it gives you the ability to take their liliana/fow before casting him. On the other hand, stifle helps you get to 3 mana--which is good versus the other delver decks in the format, but doesn't necessary help nemesis survive.
I playtested Nemesis tonight in my BUG Delver deck as a replacement for 2 Goyfs. It worked out pretty good and made me come back from an active Jitte. Nemesis was a really nice complement to Mongoose. Here's what I used:
Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True-Name Nemesis
Spells (28)
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
4 Abrupt Decay
Lands (18)
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
3 Envelop
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I just returned from BoM, didn't make day 2 with 5-2-1 drop after scrubbing round 8. I played against Jund (win), Elves (win), Elves (draw), Elves (loss, against Julian Knab, the winner of BoM), MUD (win), RUG (win), Zombardement (loss) and someting else that I've forgotten. I was playing a 3/2 hymn/ thoughtseize split and a 2/1 Nemesis/ Tombstalker split in my list, the rest was standard. As most people around me, I was pretty underwhelmed by the impact of True-Name Nemesis. It was nice in some situations but just not good enough (in terms of power) or bad (in terms of casting) in others. My opinion about this card is, that it doesn't contribute anything to the deck. If you wanna play it because it gets you out of unfavorable situations, rather avoid such situations in the first place! If you're aim is to win quickly (which is the case with Team America), this card's impact is way too low. I'll stick with Tombstalkers.
Toxic Deluge, on the other hand, has been bonkers! This card is exactly the card that this deck needed and you can actually board it against almost everything.
After BoM, my Sidboard looks like this:
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Winter Orb
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Disfigure
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
I hope you can profit a bit from my statements.
cheers
Aside from Mongoose, what is Toxic Deluge hitting that Infest isn't? Getting a Toxic Deluge countered seems brutal too.
It is easier to cast and hits 1/1's without killing your shaman(against elves) and can be used to wipe the board of anything...angel tokens, goyfs, Merfolk +lords.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Back on the Team America train. I think Nemesis might have been the final piece of the puzzle for making TA arguably the 'best deck' in Legacy. We have every tool needed. The only thing I can really think of on my wish list for new cards would be a black Swords to Plowshares. I will try my best to take down the Grand Prix, but if I fail I'm sure someone will be taking BUG to the Top 8.
Thoughtseize over Hymn btw. Especially if we see a meta shift towards combo and control. It feels great to nearly always have a strong turn 1 play: Delver, DRS, Seize, and Ponder (to set up the next few turns).
I've been testing True-Name Nemesis in Team America and it's been savage so far. I do miss the power that Tombstalker brings, but it's nice to have a powerful threat that doesn't care about the graveyard/can't be Submerge'd. I also believe that any TNN deck with Deathrite Shaman is just strictly better and TNN sure as hell fits this BUG deck better than in Shardless BUG.
I'm testing the Team America list from BoM with -1 True-Name Nemesis +1 Maelstrom Pulse because I just like having the catch-all answer/something more to flip Delver. I agree, Thoughtseize is where we want to be and it also makes it so we don't need to hit double black (for Hymn) and double blue (for Nemesis) to function properly. Do you think the deck needs four copies of TNN?
3-4 seems to be the right amount. You want to see it every game against anytimg that's not combo, but it *is* a three drop... One thing I've considered is cutting the 4th Goyf for the 4th TNN, but all things considered, Goyf is still the best beater in the format. You also want as many as possible against the Tempo mirror, whereas TNN is going to be tough to resolve.
I wanted to share two obscure cards, which at some point I'll get around to adding to the sideboard guide:
Marsh Casualties - here we have a one-sided Nausea effect which may prove useful now that we are incorporating TNN (or unflipped Delvers)
Forsaken Wastes - as it turns out, Black *does* have it's own Sulfuric Vortex. It's slower, but it at least does something when removed. Could be useful against various Control strategies, shuts off Jitte and lifelink, also interferes with the Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows engine. I'm not sure we need it as badly as RUG needs Vortex, but it's another tool to have handy.
I played the BoM list tonight at a local and got destroyed by Punishing Jund. I felt overmatched in every aspect of the game. The PFires were just too much in the long grindy game since it completely blanks all our Deathrites and Delvers, with Decay taking care of Goyfs and Bob netting them card advantage.
Does anyone have advice for this matchup, or is it just a lost cause?
I think the Sideboardoptions are very interesting, although I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather have Toxic Deluge generally over Marsh Casualties. Also, while PFire/Burnwillows Combo is a good point for Forsaken Wastes, I'm not sure if I would contribute a SB Slot for it.
I agree, if you're running the Nemesis, you probably want to have at least 3 MD and you should Play Thoughtseize over Hymn. The Thing with Hymn is, if you Play it you should really play it as a 4-of and Tombstalker profites from it the most because your Opponent has to find the answer to it mostly within 1 or 2 rounds before the game is closed.
In the Jund Matchup, I found Pithing Needle and Disfigure most helpful. Also, since they are running 4 Hymn, it's useful to run 4 Hymns in this matchup, too, because the one who casts more hymns earlier is more likely to win. I also used to pack Spell Pierce against them and I can only recommend Winter Orb because it shuts down their punishing Fire and prevents them from casting their Bloodbraid Elfs, which is the most devastating Thing they have against us.
I'm still not convinced about the Nemesis but I must admit that I'm not testing too much lately because I'm currently not living in my hometown and haven't found any seríous testing Partners. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not generally discarding the Nemesis- but I think you can't just replace it with Tombstalker and expect to get better results with it. You should probably overthink the whole idea of the deck and possibly fundamentally Change your way of thinking towards the deck.
That said, I've always had one Flexslot in the Tombstalkershell which I kept switching between Lili, Clique, Library and Thoughtseize but I haven't been satisfied with any of them. So now I'm going to test a singleton Temporal Mastery Maindeck, because I think it's time to give the deck another unfair component and I think it may just be what the deck wants.
Hove, would you mind sharing your current list?
Also, what is your SB plan vs. D&T and Elves, as well as UWR Delver? Those are 3 match-ups that I'm expecting to see a lot of in DC.
Played a local with my standard list. Lost to Esperblade due to horrible mana screw. Then lost to miracles, then a win vs miracles.
Rest in peace sucks. I may switch the tombstalker slots to the TNN just to be able to get there thru the rip.
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