Wow, awesome! Favorable matchups against both the top decks?Originally Posted by Arianrhod
As I mentioned before, I have 2 idyllic tutors in my current sideboard. Theoretically they can be useful against anything, getting deed vs. aggro, recurring nightmare vs control, nether void vs. storm (and I guess other combo too?) and humility vs. sneak and show. In practice, I've never really played them too much.
...and 12post, as usual. Yeah, that's really too bad. I actually cut my sideboard canonists and nevermores for other things, so that just makes it worse :|-) Omni is a gigantic slut. In Thune, you get to at least run hateful bears, though, which is one of the better ways of attacking the deck. Gaddock Teeg + a Nevermore on Show and Tell, for example, basically locks the deck out. Canonist is nuts against them, as is Nether Void. If they don't open with Leyline of Sanctity, you can Cranial Extraction them. All of that being said, though, Omni is probably the biggest chink in Thune's combo armor (at least, compared to universal shitfests like Belcher or TES godhands). You're going to have to get lucky here, realistically.
Yeah. I guess I'll just have to rely on thoughtseize + therapy + teeg + mindbreak trap.
Speaking of that, is mindbreak trap any good? Or should I just use canonist?
BBB is the problem. I don't see it coming out t2 barring a tower.Sadistic Sacrament could also be a card to consider. It's BBB but it has the potential to grab every combo piece at once and they usually only play 1 of each.
Awesome! That's really cool too because you can pod through a lodestone. What do other people think?I've been thinking about Pod more, is Lodestone Golem viable? I can easily imagine a MUD-flavored Pod prototype doing ugly things. There's already a heft of artifact creatures as well.
Turn 1 Explorer
Turn 2 Phyrexian Tower -> Lodestone?
It sure looks cute.
Aren't Lodestone and Veteran anti-synergistic? I mean, what's the point of making their stuff cost one more if you are giving them two mana? I think it would have to be a one sided explorer to mater against low cc decks. Unless you are planing to use it to manage the backfire of a triggered explorer, against the decks that can use the mana we give them better than us. Besides that, i don't think that he will be of such impact when on a pod chain. Ok, if we manage to make it turn 2 or tree with Vet, he's sure excellent. But if in a part of a pod chain, he would seldom come off earlier the turn five. By then, i'm not sure it will impact the game meaningfully. But i say that with just little experience on pod builds, so i might be absolutely wrong.
- EDIT- I don't know why, but i could swear Lodestone had 5cc, ahahahah. Being 4cc, my arguments lose a bit of consistency. But i would generally maintain my point.
If you add 3spheres, that might change :P
hymn inspired me to build a mud "fit" list but I'm not going to post it just yet. (This is your first official warning.)
Here's my current thune fit list
1 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Rector
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sylvan Ranger
2 Spike Feeder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Necroplasm
1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 2 Idyllic Tutor
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
So call me insane, but I am testing Whip Of Erebos in my pod list, actually has quite a bit of synergy with the rest of the deck currently testing it over Recurring Nightmare, but I can see them being hard to handle in tandem with one another rather than one or the other
Also Grave Titan is staying after he single handily helped me crush a Jund opponent
Currently Playing:
Dredge, The Rock, Lands, Spiral Tide, Affinity
So I played a local tournament yesterday with my BUGfit list. The meta was very strange, a lot of local pet decks and new players to the format (out of 22 players, one brought a deck from the DtB section). It was a bit of a rough day, but in the end I managed a decent 3-1-2, finishing on the 6th place. I decided not to test a True-Name Nemesis, but instead play another Far/Away, leading to this list:
Mainboard
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Consecrated Sphinx
4 Brainstorm
4 Negate
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Counterspell
2 Far / Away
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Golgari Charm
2 Innocent Blood
2 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast
Round 1: Aggro Elves 1-1
A aggro elves deck that played GSZ and a lot of mana elves (priest, archdruid) to put Progenitus or Craterhoof into play, but it was also capable of killing you with lords and little elves. Played wasteland and some fancy stuff.
G1: Was a close game, I managed to get a deed in play when he bashed me with some elves. He just kept on ramping after my first deed and when I was pretty much stable at 9 life I face a Progenitus with back up elves… I made a few small mistakes here I think that made sure I lost, otherwise I could’ve possibly made it.
G2: I think Deed + Jace got me there in the long run. However, he made a calculation error since he could’ve killed me with a craterhoof but instead tried to kill me with forestwalked lords, which I Decayed and was then able to block and kill him. I boarded in FoWs, but this was clearly a mistake. I was just a bit afraid of tapping out when has a shit load of mana with cradle and priest just to topdeck a GSZ for an instant kill or Progenitus.
G3: Both games took long and we had only a few minutes for this round. He couldn’t kill me in time while I was trying to disrupt him. I don’t know if I would have won the round with plenty of time, since it was pretty difficult to keep up with all the elves. On paper it looks favorable, but I was just glad I didn’t lost. I never felt in control here.
0-0-1
Round 2: BW good stuff 1-1
Hymn, Stoneforge mystic, Dark confident, Vindicate, Wasteland, Lingering Souls etc. Difficult match up since the souls + equipments are hard to deal with outside pernicious deed.
R1: I get destroyed by double hymn. After I cleared the board and was about to land a Jace he hymned me and left me without cards. Didn’t get any action afterwards.
R2: I had control and he got Jaced.
R3: Not much time left. I had to think a bit and disrupted him as much as I could. He couldn’t kill me before time ran out and I hadn’t full control by then either. No clue who would’ve won.
0-0-2
Round 3: Mono black suicide 0-2
Facing my own deck that I lend to a friend! Not easy due to a lot of discard and sacrifice effects, but Sigarda shines here.
R1: Lost due to a mulligan to 4
R2: He had Tombstalker, I got Sigarda. From there it was pretty equal, until he found the newly added Sword of Fire and Ice with his Top. I drew nothing to deal with the big stalker and lost to the 7/7 flyer with a big sword.
0-1-2
Round 4: Casual mill 2-0
This was embarrassing, some weird mill deck with hardly any disruption (just some bounce) and things like memory sluice, thought scour, glimpse and mind funeral. My creatures resolved and killed him before he could mill me in both rounds.
1-1-2
Round 5: BG pox 2-0
G1: We start by killing some deathrite shamans and a veteran. Cabal Therapy removes his threats and he is left with removal. However, I drew nothing but lands so he had only useless cards. He resolved a Lily that slowly got to 7, after which I topdecked a Decay and killed it. He had no pressure whatsoever and after another land I drew Karn which sealed the game. Innocent blood is a poor card when your opponent is only playing lands and planeswalkers.
G2: I got an early Jace I think, which gained me a lot of card advantage. It led to a GSZ for Sigarda and from there I easily won the game.
2-1-2
Round 6: BUG control 2-1
Another friend of mine. Lots of counters, planeswalkers and disruption. Sigarda is my to-go-for-card, but I have to resolve GSZ to do so.
G1: This game was so stupid. He drew lands and counterspells, I only drew crap and veteran explorers, which actually killed him. At some point I had 3, so he had to flash in Snapcaster, flashback Abrupt Decay one of my veterans, after which I decayed his Snapcaster mage. The final remaining two veterans killed him. I think I attacked around 10 times with veterans and nothing really happened.
G2: He had control and I a poor hand with a mulligan or 2 I think. I got Jaced.
G3: He kept a bit wacky hand with 4 land, 2 FoW and a Perish. My turn 2 Cabal on Fow left him with nothing and I was able to resolve my GSZ quickly afterwards for a Sigarda. He tried but couldn’t get rid of her (she killed Jace, Lily and then him).
3-1-2
I picked a French Stifle as my prize and got a lot of play testing, unfortunately not against the decks I was looking for but I learned that the second Far/Away was too much. I don’t like a single Nemesis as it dies to my own deeds and 5-7 turns swinging with a 3/1 doesn’t seem like a sound strategy to me. I’m now thinking of -1 Far/Away, +1 Eternal Witness. Sometimes it would have been very helpful to GSZ for a removal spell via EWitness. However, my blue count is now only 16 MB. Usually I take out 2 counterspell for the FoWs against control decks with wasteland (e.g. R6), but that will have to change then. I want at least 17 blue cards when boarding in 4 FoW. I haven’t been able to test my Sideboard much, but Golgari Charm was a nice card, I will keep that one for sure. Daze is mainly there for combo which I didn’t face, so haven’t been able to test it.
Currently pondering over Phyrexian Metamorph for the main deck to increase the blue count (instead of Witness for example) and maybe True-Name Nemesis in the SB instead of Daze, for control decks. Several might actually be good against control. Overall I was pretty satisfied though with the list. It needs a little tuning, but it performs really well so far. Any feedback is of course welcome!
This is an interesting approach to BUG Fit and I think it has good potential. Some or many Negates in the main deck seem great. I also like the Sigarda just for GSZ a lot. Thought about it and didn't go for it, but it is probably right. With Brainstorm and Jace she won't get stuck in hand and there is nothing even remotely close to her in power level.
Here is what I think you should definetely change:
- I still think that playing 1 Mountain for 1 Huntmaster as the only Red card in the 75 is ridiculously bad.
- Witness is really, really good when you have 4 Decay, 4 Therapy and 4 Brainstorm to get back (Therapies to use flashback, too) and GSZ to search it.
I'd cut the Far Away and the Huntmaster for a Witness and a 3rd Jace.
Took angry mountains to the tourney I talked about earlier. 20 players.
I ended up 3-1-1.
R1 vs monored sneak attack / through the breach.dec. That an even worse matchup than SneakShow... Lost horribly.
R2 vs GBW rector fit. He usually playes ScapeWish but wanted to try out someting different. I rip his hand apart game 1 and manage to draw dud after dud. I eventually have alle but 7 mountians and 1 vakalut in play. No tops, no wish, no scapeshift, no gsz->titan. Nothing. I loose to nightmare into yosei lock. When im locked out i topdeck wish... G2 he rectors a leyline of sanctity. I go beatdown with lots of dudes. G3 he has leyline again. I get to 8 lands during turns and need to rip runner runner. (Deed, bwish or scapeshift) he finds yosei on his 2nd turn and uses phyrexian tower to lock 5 lands. I rip deed but cant cast it (no green available). He eot surgicals my bwishes. Boohoo
R3 vs punishing zoo. Allmost a bye
R4 vs bug delver (without goyfs...) I turn 1 therapy, turn 2 therapy, therapy. Turn 3 vetex flash ack therapy. Prett silly. He rips tombstalker but i land scapeshift for 36. G2 is more or less a copy of game 1. I just dont need t therapy him as much as he muls to 5.
R5 vs elves. This is going to be hard. He hoofs me to 5 on turn 3 or 4. The next turn he goes 3x glimpse into doooooooods. If he were to not rip NO/GSZ/hoof I will win (enough dudes to survive an attakc to the 3 dudes he has active. But 3 glimpse do what was to be expected. Close so i feel confident. G2 I rip had hand apart and go aggro with huntmaster + token. G3 i deed him 5 for 1. After that i drop huntmaster, huntmaster. He puts up a fight but i spaughter games his good cards.
All in all I had a blast again with ScapeWish. Its just a great deck play if you enjoy Nicfit ;)
Hi guys!
So i've been thinking about getting to legacy for a while, and i really don't wan't to play burn or some cheap combo deck like oops. My meta is mostly fair decks, and the few people who play combo play oops or omniclash. After reading this thread for a while, i'll say that i really like what this archetype looks like. I am on a pretty tight budget (about 200e), so i won't be getting ABU duals, but i already own most shocks.
What nic fit version would you suggest? Or is it better to not play nic fit at all?
Do you have Fetchlands already?
Yeah you could get most of the Non lands in a GB shell for that. I think my original Nic FIt Build (no duals, straight GB) was around 400-500 USD with fetches.
I only own most of the duals from scars to theros and a few 10th edit. ones.
Fetches are pretty important, not only for mana fixing but also for Sensei's Top. I'm sure you can build a sub optimal mana base in this deck, thanks to veteran explorers ramp, but it could definitely be improved.
Overgrown tombs will work since you will be fetching basics most of the time, but you really need the fetch lands. Catacombs and Flats will be the cheapest.
Yeah fetches are important. More important than duals.
I think i will be able to buy/trade a few fetches for this deck. Thanks for helping me out!
Do you have any of the non lands? Like creatures/green suns/decays? Im just also assuming you have some of the more recent cards that are commonly played in the deck.
Of the expensive cards i own only 2 tusks, 2 decays's, 1 thoughtseize and 1 flip garruk.
getting your hand on fetches is key #1. Not only because it'll smooth your manabase and working well with top, but it also allows you to have a piece that goes into another deck. I would say Catacombs is top as it allows you to have access to any other B and/or G deck.
As others have said, shocks will be fine, but if you can snipe the relevant duals, it will be a boon for you. After that, I'd say go after tops, but I feel deed is more important.
The best thing about this deck is that most of our threats are cards that were/are good, but people dismiss. Huntmaster of the Fells in red versions being one. I would of said prime time, but Rock Lee on here would beg to differ at that being a card not commonly seen in legacy (12-post has been showing up more after last year.)
Another boon is the reprinting of 'sieze as that was a barrier to me building the deck.
Basically: As long as your smart about your pickk-ups, you can build this deck easily. Just make sure to go for multi-deck staples first, so that if you leave the deck, you have parts to others.
Tusk isn't expensive. He's like $3 now.
My advice for a budget Nic Fit:
-) Get your Veterans and your Therapies. They are the soul of the archetype.
-) Get your Tops. They are our Brainstorm.
-) Stick with GB. Splashing a color is doable but dangerous because it necessitates more expensive cards (by definition you're adding a color to add something).
-) Get your Deeds. They, along with Therapy, are how we control what our opponents are doing with the mana we give them.
-) Treetop Villages. More so if you can get a Primeval Titan, but even without a Titan, Treetops are solid anti-flood tech since you won't have thinning via fetches.
-) Get your Green Sun's Zeniths. They tie your creature base together, and give you a very high chance to topdeck a bomb lategame with every draw step.
What you don't NEED:
-) Fetches. Are they nice? Yes. Mandatory? No. Put in the full set of Sakura-Tribe Elders and Wood Elves, and tick your overall land count down to 19-20. Ideal? Not by a long stretch -- but it'll function why you work on getting the more expensive stuff.
-) Big bomby things. Since you have Tusks, that's great. For other threats, just use whatever huge draft common / EDH staple you happen to have in-color. You could make a very convincing argument for running [card]Soul of the Harvest[/cards] over Primeval Titan, including that Soul costs pennies vs Titan's dollars. You could probably make Nic Fit win by putting Craw Wurms in it if you had to.
-) Revised duals. Especially if you're sticking with just G/B for now. Overgrown Tombs will suffice.
--------
If, after Veterans, Therapies, Deeds, Tops, and Zeniths you have anything left at all, I would suggest either rounding out G/B (Primeval Titan, Volrath's Stronghold, Phyrexian Tower, Thrun, etc), or working on fetches, so you can reduce the Sakura-Tribes and Wood Elves and up your land count, which will lead to fewer problems overall.
Another viable course of action is to pick up Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fires, and a Wolf Run. With a Stomping Ground and a Blood Crypt you could probably emulate Punishing Fit fairly easliy. Even without the Groves, it might be a good idea to pick up a Kessig Wolf Run and put in a couple of red sources.
I'm not saying you're going to win a ton of events with it. But if it gets you into the format and set up to the point where you can start prizing locals, you can use that credit to make your list better. It'll probably be a long road before you'll have a fully powered version of the deck, but it should still be sufficient enough to be competitive.
In principal I would agree with you, but with a budget of 200 E, I don't realistically see Lantern being able to hop decks easily. Given that I would expect him to be playing Nic Fit for a while off of fiscal reasons along, I think that the fetches can be deferred for a few months.
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