I want to see the whole deck!
EDIT: But lets move this to EDH thread.
Pictures will be difficult to post, would a decklist suffice?Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
I want to see the whole deck!
EDIT: But lets move this to EDH thread.
Alpha and Beta editions of cards are not the ones we're worried about tanking.
Consider how much Revised cards have tanked as a result of reprinting.
Why are you worried about cards tanking? Did you honestly believe that your cards' value was always going to climb until you were old and decided to trade them in for a new car or something?
I guess. Define tanking. I used to sell revised Savannah's for $4-8. If they put a new border Savannah in every box of Legacy Masters do you really think a revised Savannah would fall to $4-8. I seriously fucking doubt it. If it did what exactly is my claim? I bought Savannahs for $4-5.
The demand for the card in casual, EDH, and legacy outstrips a print run like MM. A from the vaults or commanders arsenal would hardly dent demand. Supply would be further bolstered by people who prefer foil trading in revised / unlimited Savannah's for the hideous foil abortions.
https://groups.google.com/forum/mess...o/7LkcsILjFOcJ
Should I be upset that they spiked and "sue" WotC for the reserved list making things I previously sold worth more? For every card that tanked, like ... a Wrath of God going from $10 at it's peak to about $5 now there are other that have spiked. Actually ... Wrath of God got reprinted 11 times after revised. ELEVEN. It's value went from around $10 at it's peak to $5. Including inflation and after getting reprinted ELEVEN times.
If they are still fucking scared of the list they can print cards on it in gold and say "Hay you can play these in EDH". They would sell. The World Series set of Power 9 fetches like 75 bucks a card right now. Not even legal and your looking at 75 a card. They should do this at the very lest.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
World series sets? Talking about international/collector set?
What it takes to be a pimp:
1. Knowing the right people.
2. Have the money
Not one or the other, but both.
The fastest way to become a millionare is to start with a billion dollars, then start collecting magic cards, eh? - dry cereal
Yea, that's what they are called. Had to type that from memory and I just did a grave on the back of no sleep... Sorry bout that.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
How is that fake? I have same Liliana. Bought here in Czech Republic from Cerny Rytir (the biggest mtg shop here) in September. It has perfect font and spacing. Only little more bold text.Where's a post somewhere burried in the Salvation thread about this topic. Maybe someone can bother to dig it out.
Edit: It was about these ones from the MTG Salvation thread:
Not sure if the Salvation thread also contains the story behind it, but in the 4chan thread, it was said that a guy compared his Lilianas bought from SCG and one of those was a fake one.
@theBloody: it's not fake - just read my posts. It's just panic and delusion of some people.
I never said I was.
I am implying that it is intellectually dishonest to look at prices of just Alpha/Beta cards and claim that mass reprints don't decrease the value of cards in general. The history of Magic is filled with examples of cards having dropped in value as a result of reprinting, with very few exceptions.
For the record, I don't like the Reserved List.
General points:
1) Counterfeits are not good. Destabilising the game for perceived short term benefits is stupid -- would anyone be comfortable with currency being counterfeited just to ease consumerist pressure? If the argument is about the reserved list and prices, argue that.
2) Stop blaming everything on collectors. Speculation and self-fulfilling price prophecies are the reasons for price spikes. You know all the times people post on the price thread about cards they bought in anticipation of rises? Welcome to speculation-ville -- population: you.
3) If you want the voices of the eternal format to be heard, this is definitely a good advertisement of why people shouldn't be taking the vocal minority seriously.
4) People wishing doom on wotc and scg for corporate greed/insert hippie left-wing spiel -- grow up.
5) Prices are high, yes. They need to come down. I'm all for the reserved list being relaxed or abolished.
6) Stop arguing that reprints don't hurt prices. Yes, beta BoPs are still high, and have been going up recently. Guess what, Menendian's data analysis didn't account for the salient possibility of prices being even higher sans reprints -- using these examples to justify reprints not hurting prices is 1) intellectually dishonest and 2) Procrustean argumentation. The reason to remove the reserved list is the health of the format -- and that is reason enough, no need to hide and obfuscate it amongst rhetoric regarding prices not being hurt.
7) Cutting down on excess expenditure is absolutely valid if you want more disposable income, regardless of whether you stay at home with your family or whether you have kids to raise and bills to pay. The latter isn't a reason why the game should be cheaper -- you derive utility from having your own property and a family, other people derive utility from having more disposable income. That's how the world works.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
Collectors are the least problem. Most people blame speculators/hoarder. Heck, there's even a website that threats Magic cards like stocks: http://mtgstocks.com/
That's fair. Magic is also littered with examples of cards having plunged in value because they rotate from standard, or because of obsolescence. There seems to be less sandy vag from that phenomenon. People just lube up and buy the next $40 standard rare that will be $10 in 1.5 years.
My examples of the high end stuff stems from the perception that those people have the 'most' to lose. 10 more Birds of Paradise reprints to go with the 10 they've already done won't affect the price of my gold ink signed beta BoPs or my korean BoPs, same for silver inked signed Beta Wrath. I still think (opinion), a FTV sized reprint of the alpha duals in new border foil would have minimal impact on the average price of a revised dual once the initial buying, trading in and selling settle down. I think the demand would easily absorb the trade in's, the casual / edh crowd would suck up the foils, and people who think they are pimp would buy 4 of's for eternal. Closing that loop hole a few years back was retarded, we have real examples of judge foil promos bringing prices to reasonable levels on some cards (p3k which were hyper inflated), and not having any impact on others (sinkhole, sofi, snt, sneaks, bob). We also have examples of reprints in reprint sets using the mythic rarity as a handbrake, see clique, goyf, bob all of which have gone up since being reprinted.
First and foremost, I want to state that I too am all for a relaxing of the reserved list. However, I think that people might be too optimistic with their hopes about changes being made regarding WotC's reprint policy. The impression I get is that a lot of people seem to feel entitled to be able to play legacy. Let's look at Vintage as a comparison. The barrier to entry is far higher (initially) and WotC basically allowed the format to die or become very niche (now bringing it back via MTGO). To me, the creation of the Modern format seems like WotC accepting that Legacy has a high barrier of entry which they can't/are unwilling to address. I understand that Modern and Legacy are very different formats, but that's not the issue. I believe WotC is simply trying to have an eternal format for everyone. Legacy, on paper, may well be intended for those who have been playing since the early days of the game or those who are willing to buy in. For everyone else, there is MTGO.
While certain reserved list cards would be nice to have circulated in greater numbers (Tabernacle, I'm looking at you), many of those cards are only used in a narrow sample of decks; obviously, dual lands are the greatest glaring exception to this. That being said, ease of entry to the format would be greatly increased if the true staples like FoW and Wasteland were made more accessible. I think WotC has underestimated the true demand for these cards (heck, EDH players want them too). People complain about Wasteland's availability all the time, and that's a card that was Uncommon to start and has been reprinted in two different promo versions (how they didn't include it in FTV: Realms continues to blow my mind). I'm sure we'll see FoW as a judge promo soon enough; I mean, they already have the alternate MTGO artwork to use. Another more speculative theory is that they've been holding off on reprinting FoW because they may feel they might need to reprint it for Modern at some point. I know that FoW is above the power curve they want for formats these days, but it's also the glue that holds otherwise broken formats together. A slightly less powerful/ubiquitous "free" counter could be printed to address possible future issues in Modern, but that means that card is available in Legacy as well. It's the same reason we'll likely never see another decent blue cantrip, because regardless of the power level of the new card, the density of the available effect would just become too great (so I suspect we'll be stuck w/ Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions in Modern for the forseeable future, and I think Brainstorm + Ponder + Preordain is enough for Legacy).
Anyway, the summation of my rant is that I think WotC's support for Vintage/Legacy is going to turn to MTGO. Paper will exist as long as there are still people willing to play (and pay) in great numbers.
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
And people will always be attracted to the allure of power ...
Agree with all your points, but especially this. SCG and Wizards are in the game to make money, that's what they should try to do. There's nothing wrong with that. Wizards can make a lot of money off of reprinting dual lands and there's nothing wrong with that either.
The real reason we want them to reprint is because it'd be a major step in the right direction for making Legacy one of MTG's staple formats. It continues to baffle me that Wizards fools around with formats like Extended and Modern. People like playing with the old powerhouse cards. It's fun. Nobody wants to get badgered into playing a format where Wizards has to ban every good card.
Vintage is like a look into Magic's past. Standard is everything new and fancy. To me, and I think a lot of players, Legacy is a beautiful balance between old Magic and new Magic. Modern is just another Extended, which was always only ever Super-Standard.
Oh, and of course printing fakes is bad for the game. Even if prices are out of control (and they are), printing fakes only hurts the game.
Related : http://magecraftia.com/viewtopic.php...=unread#unread
Following PolishTamales warning, one of my colleagues inquired to this Chinese company, and got this:
Which is exactly what luckme10 on page 13 got as well so it seems to be one guy doing this whole counterfeit.
and the funny thing is the site is taking orders...
Dzra, the comparative points you made remind of something one of my friends mentioned once. We were discussing what it would take for Wizards to abolish the Reserved List. He thinks one of the conditions for such a situation would be the failure of Modern as a format (similar to how extended died eventually). I agree with him because one of the reasons Modern was created was for players who wish they could play legacy but are priced out of the format. Personally, I would hope that something else would bring about the demise of the Reserve List, but if sacrificing Modern would guarantee the long term sustainability of Legacy I would gladly welcome it.
In regards to Legacy:
Of course they do, they just lied to get the initial onslaught in check. See prateta's post on page 13.
For now, all we can do is bitch and wait until players who ordered get the new batch and see how the compare to the original thing.
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