Chinese fakes

[Russian Alara]

Of course they do, they just lied to get the initial onslaught in check. See prateta's post on page 13.

For now, all we can do is bitch and wait until players who ordered get the new batch and see how the compare to the original thing.

Not for long since M15 Frames come with a machine read text .. thank god!

.. then it will be calm for a few weeks

[Lord Seth]

If they are still fucking scared of the list they can print cards on it in gold and say "Hay you can play these in EDH". They would sell. The World Series set of Power 9 fetches like 75 bucks a card right now. Not even legal and your looking at 75 a card. They should do this at the very lest.

Oh, they can do that. But they won't because it would violate the "spirit" of the Reserved List.

Not being sarcastic. That's quite literally the explanation given, except without the sarcastic quotes around the word spirit.

[PirateKing]

After reading about all the price drops as the result of rotation or bannings, it made me wonder, what would happen if the DCI one day bans dual lands from Legacy and Vintage? There is nothing in the reserved list language preventing them from doing so. And yet it would be even worse than pretty much and form of reprinting. It's not like they care for the formats, we would complain, but since when has our voices ever traveled far? As for the collectors, they'd still be just as collectable, see Alpha Chaos Orb at $300, but guarantee those "collecting" them will be devastated when they become worthless EDH only cards. I'd laugh.

[dontbiteitholmes]

After reading about all the price drops as the result of rotation or bannings, it made me wonder, what would happen if the DCI one day bans dual lands from Legacy and Vintage? There is nothing in the reserved list language preventing them from doing so. And yet it would be even worse than pretty much and form of reprinting. It's not like they care for the formats, we would complain, but since when has our voices ever traveled far? As for the collectors, they'd still be just as collectable, see Alpha Chaos Orb at $300, but guarantee those "collecting" them will be devastated when they become worthless EDH only cards. I'd laugh.

This is exactly the attitude I've been referring to in this thread. All the have-nots would love to see the game destroyed just to stick it to people who have more than them. This is why I don't see a future in this game. Also you guys seriously need to learn the difference between collectors and speculators. If it wasn't for collectors MTG never would have made it and they still play an important part in greasing the wheels that host events for everyone. There is one class of people the average MTG player should be mad at and that's speculators. They drive up prices for everyone just to make a piss-ant insignificant profit for themselves on occasion and it benefits no one but them. Crashing the market might hurt a handful of speculators who are too stupid to know when the ship is sinking and jump out with only small losses, but it also would hurt most serious players (on losing value on collections and less events), collectors, and of course dealers.

[skinnytalls]

Im glad to see scg has posted an article concerning the issue, good read
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...eit-Cards.html

[cheerios]

are the fakes available in english only? Or are there already reports of fake non-english cards?

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk 2

[dontbiteitholmes]

Im glad to see scg has posted an article concerning the issue, good read
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...eit-Cards.html

- Do not buy counterfeit cards deliberately for any reason. I do not care if you want them for a kitchen table game or what. If there's no money in it, fewer of these will show up to pollute our stores, and there's a chance that the counterfeiters will stop innovating and move on to something else.

This is the reason fake cards have not been a huge issue for so long and the only way to prevent any more issues going forward, unfortunately this is a line everyone seems not only willing but eager to cross. I think a lot of people are going to buy these fake cards and then be bitching and crying when the paper game contracts and the only place they have left to play is MTGO.

[Zombie]

This is exactly the attitude I've been referring to in this thread. All the have-nots would love to see the game destroyed just to stick it to people who have more than them. This is why I don't see a future in this game. Also you guys seriously need to learn the difference between collectors and speculators. If it wasn't for collectors MTG never would have made it and they still play an important part in greasing the wheels that host events for everyone. There is one class of people the average MTG player should be mad at and that's speculators. They drive up prices for everyone just to make a piss-ant insignificant profit for themselves on occasion and it benefits no one but them. Crashing the market might hurt a handful of speculators who are too stupid to know when the ship is sinking and jump out with only small losses, but it also would hurt most serious players (on losing value on collections and less events), collectors, and of course dealers.

Could you please STFU with the "have-nots crying" rhetoric? Actually, drop the please. Just STFU. Hearing people glorify the absurd prices and insult people who think piles of cardboard costing thousands is absurd is tiring as hell. "Oh you just lack character. I climbed to a mountain where I lived as a hermit and dug gold to be able to buy my Shardless deck."

Sincerely, a "have".

[SlopeeJ]

I didn't read the thread but if I could find decent cards that would allow to play/make decks I would buy them. I think the reserve list and the card prices are ridiculous. I think selling the fakes as real is wrong

[dontbiteitholmes]

Could you please STFU with the "have-nots crying" rhetoric? Actually, drop the please. Just STFU. Hearing people glorify the absurd prices and insult people who think piles of cardboard costing thousands is absurd is tiring as hell. "Oh you just lack character. I climbed to a mountain where I lived as a hermit and dug gold to be able to buy my Shardless deck."

Sincerely, a "have".

How else do you describe the post I quoted? Seriously I'm interested? Is that not exactly the mentality in play for some? Is that not the mentality that will potentially allow these counterfeits to permeate the scene?

Not even trolling, what's your input when people say things like...

After reading about all the price drops as the result of rotation or bannings, it made me wonder, what would happen if the DCI one day bans dual lands from Legacy and Vintage? There is nothing in the reserved list language preventing them from doing so. And yet it would be even worse than pretty much and form of reprinting. It's not like they care for the formats, we would complain, but since when has our voices ever traveled far? As for the collectors, they'd still be just as collectable, see Alpha Chaos Orb at $300, but guarantee those "collecting" them will be devastated when they become worthless EDH only cards. I'd laugh.

It's a sad thing but I feel like I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'd love to be wrong and this not be a big deal but seriously I think it is. What's your input?

[SlopeeJ]

Did anyone actually get any of the cards and confirm they are even a good counterfeit before everyone flames and insults? Counterfeiting has been around forever and isn't new

[Dice_Box]

The thing I find interesting is the "Haves and have nots" comments been banned around. I have at lest one full set of what must be Grade 9 Revised Duals so I do not think myself a Have not. Still I think this situation offers real chance of offering real change. That is a good thing. No matter how you look at the moral issue.

[Barook]

This post on 4chan got me thinking:

Can't you already scam people?

>hurf he sent me fakes
>take pictures of fakes
>keep real and send fakes back

I mean, these scams and chargeback things already exist and are possible. Ebay always favors the buyer in most cases too.

Ebay trading is pretty much dead at this point since you could either get fakes or get screwed over by Ebay favoring buyers.

People claim that these fakes would ruin LGS, but wouldn't it be more safe to buy stuff from your LGS where you can actually examine the card?

[Dan Turner]

We were discussing this situation at our Sunday night kitchen table magic session. We are of the conclusion that this is a godsend to LGS's. So many times we hear 'ewww I can go to place x online and get it for $1 cheaper'. Now people are going to be a little more willing to buy the $75 in person FOW vs the $60 online one if they know for a fact they are getting a real card, so if Local's are able to keep a lookout and its a trusty store this is a major step back towards helping LGS's recover market share from ebay & tcgplayer

Sent from 15 min in the future via Tapatalk Timewarp.

[Quasim0ff]

After reading about all the price drops as the result of rotation or bannings, it made me wonder, what would happen if the DCI one day bans dual lands from Legacy and Vintage? There is nothing in the reserved list language preventing them from doing so. And yet it would be even worse than pretty much and form of reprinting. It's not like they care for the formats, we would complain, but since when has our voices ever traveled far? As for the collectors, they'd still be just as collectable, see Alpha Chaos Orb at $300, but guarantee those "collecting" them will be devastated when they become worthless EDH only cards. I'd laugh.

yeah, you being on a legacy/eternal forum makes a whole lot of sense….

[dontbiteitholmes]

The thing I find interesting is the "Haves and have nots" comments been banned around. I have at lest one full set of what must be Grade 9 Revised Duals so I do not think myself a Have not. Still I think this situation offers real chance of offering real change. That is a good thing. No matter how you look at the moral issue.

What good is going to come of this exactly? I mean I can see theoretical situations where that might happen so I get why people are saying that to a point but I don't think any future where this is a good thing is based in reality.

This post on 4chan got me thinking:


Ebay trading is pretty much dead at this point since you could either get fakes or get screwed over by Ebay favoring buyers.

People claim that these fakes would ruin LGS, but wouldn't it be more safe to buy stuff from your LGS where you can actually examine the card?

The problem is not so much the fakes or the scams, those have been around for a long time. The problem is the people who are saying they don't care about supporting the counterfeiters. There are a fair amount of people who would happily send $500 to counterfeiters and get mailed back bootleg playsets of every Legacy/Vintage staple. Where that demand exists you bet your ass someone is going to fill it. That's the main problem IMO. People are looking at whether to support the community that keeps the game running or support the counterfeiters and many have already vocalized they have chosen the counterfeiters. In the past people actively avoided fakes and that kept the market for them suppressed. Do you have any idea how hard it is to unload 500 playsets of fake duals to people who only want real cards? These printers literally have people beating down the door to get fake cards, it's really fucking shameful IMO but I guess that's just the world we live in now adays. The more people support counterfeiters the better the fakes get and the more the market is flooded with them. It's not a sustainable thing long term IMO, so anyone who's buying these cards on purpose, enjoy them and know you are supporting a system that is going to be responsible for ripping off countless players and collectors and take business away from the stores which host the events you play in.

We were discussing this situation at our Sunday night kitchen table magic session. We are of the conclusion that this is a godsend to LGS's. So many times we hear 'ewww I can go to place x online and get it for $1 cheaper'. Now people are going to be a little more willing to buy the $75 in person FOW vs the $60 online one if they know for a fact they are getting a real card, so if Local's are able to keep a lookout and its a trusty store this is a major step back towards helping LGS's recover market share from ebay & tcgplayer

Sent from 15 min in the future via Tapatalk Timewarp.

Are you reading what people are saying about this? Lots of people aren't going to buy anything from Ebay or LGS they WANT the fake shit. It's the LGS $75 Force of Will vs. the $60 Ebay FoW, vs. the $3 chinese FoW that can't be distinguished from the real card in a sleeve.

[Dice_Box]

Just read the World War M thing. Not sure what I feel right now.

I really want come good honest change to come of this. I want to see the prices fall, I want to see the people that play the market get a scare and I want to see the game flush. I want new people to play in my format and I want Wizards to get off their FUCKING ASSES and print some Legacy cards. I want to see my own collection be worth half its value but see the amount of people playing double. But what I do not want is for the game to die. So I will say I am conflicted. Because I see some good coming from this. But I can say I see the bad too.

I still say though, fuck the hoarders, lets all play a game.

[Occam]

Could you please STFU with the "have-nots crying" rhetoric? Actually, drop the please. Just STFU. Hearing people glorify the absurd prices and insult people who think piles of cardboard costing thousands is absurd is tiring as hell. "Oh you just lack character. I climbed to a mountain where I lived as a hermit and dug gold to be able to buy my Shardless deck."

Sincerely, a "have".

I wasn't sure that zombies could ride on high horses until now.

No one is glorifying high prices. Go ahead, find one post in here from someone who is making a genuine attempt at discussion that glorifies high prices. When you fail to, realise that it is, you know, possible to dislike stupidly high prices and call out instances of blatant idiocy such as folk wanting duals to be banned just to depress prices. A move that would cripple both Vintage and Legacy. But no, calling *that* guy an idiot is akin to insulting folk who dislike high prices. Riiight.

Counterfeits are bad -- arguing as such does not equate to believing that prices should stay as such. It is to ensure that cards remain a trustworthy, fungible commodity that can trade on a certain basis with currency -- you know, the backbone of any monetary circulation in society.

So I will say I am conflicted. Because I see some good coming from this. But I can say I see the bad too.

Let's put things into perspective. You believe that counterfeits potentially lead to a situation of good because they damage the game's integrity and potentially (read: potentially, not definitely) cause a rethink in reprint policies? Do you also support supplying alcohol to drink drivers in the hope that they potentially run each other over and thus achieve an isolated extrapolation of good?

I get it, you don't like high prices. It would certainly be nice to not have to cut our noses off to spite our faces, though.

[Dice_Box]

Do you also support supplying alcohol to drink drivers in the hope that they potentially run each other over and thus achieve an isolated extrapolation of good?

If your willing to put them all in the one place, yes I can see the value in such an undertaking.

The thing is, the high prices are not a large barrier for me. I dislike them, but I am going to be getting two Tropical Islands tomorrow from my gaming store to put in my elves deck. Its not a small buy no, but I can do something like that once a month and not have to live off Ramen for the rest of the pay week. What I dislike most is the decreasing size of the Legacy Scene.

Now please, before you tell me it is bigger than ever in the States or in Germany or some shit, I do not live there. I live in Australia. Here the format is not flushing. Prices are pushing people out of the format and if the dollar drops again the Format will die. Because at that point a $120 us card will cost like 210 here. At that point its set and match. Game over. No way we can make it out of that one alive.

So yea, prices are a bitch, more so if you live in a place where the game is not massive. So to all of you in the US or the EU whom think this is all hell in a hand-basket, I have a very different view. Because I am one Mining Boom off not having my hobby any more.

[Lemnear]

How do you define "hoarder"? For me personally, all the players having near 40 duals/Fetches at home despite only playing 1-2 decks or owning multiple sets of a card for various decks (like FoW's), Qualify as "hoarders".

No. 1 argument to identify a hoarder: "i don't sell my cards (I didn't even have touched for years), in case I need them in the future and would only pay more to get them back if I sell those now..."