Originally Posted by twndomn
I want to play Golf, but cannot afford it. I think I think the only way is to start counterfeit money. But this could cost me a lot resource and knowledge so it's just better to become criminal and go to the local bank post...
This is the only way I can get in to a Golf club, so I can enjoy the game, it's just a game after all. And I want more peoples to start plating Golf.
Btw, I want to have Rolls-Royce Corniche so I can go to the Golf club without looking stupid with my small and cheap car. It's just a car after all, everyone should have Rolls-Royce!
You can go to North Korea or China and try to build the Communism there! One way ticket!
Did you guys just ignore him AGAIN? I'll requote him cause this is the kind of information this thread should be really about - not what user A thinks about Topic B and how more aswesome user B is than user C.More info
from the chinese guy who is sending me the free samples. They should arrive this week, will post a short review when I get my hands on them.
I talked to the man today and tried to get some more information from him. This is what I've got. Wanna see my last post with information regarding the alleged police raid and lost in spam? Click here.
New info:
Greetings
This thread turns TheSource into the 4 Chan of M:TG :/
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The corresponding threads on Salvation and Reddit are even worse.
I've been checking in this thread every now and then and this is the first time I've seen it actually discussing fake cards instead of hoarding or copyright theory or some such horse shit.
All I can say is, I'm afraid of a market crash, and I've never been afraid of the Magic bubble bursting before. Fortunately, I mostly have (sweet) foreign copies of expensive cards, so presumably there's not very much incentive to counterfeit them. Or at least I keep telling myself that...
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
I agree that this is troubling. More so for the perception of a market crash than the likelihood that the market will actually be noticeably flooded. Even several thousand more duals will not likely cause noticeable inflation; however, just the idea alone that people other than WotC have the power to do so may cause massive instability in the market.
I actually think that, rather than helping, posting and telling everyone how to spot fakes is likely to do nothing more than tell the counterfeiters how to correct their mistakes. All the white knights out there that are buying fakes for the purpose of telling everyone how to identify them will probably only result in better fakes. If you have bought counterfeit cards, whatever your motives, I'd urge you not to reveal too publicly how to identify them. For everyone else, just make sure that you are getting your cards from a credible source until WotC figures out how to fix this.
Lets just hope they won't ever be able to copy/reproduce the foil cards process.
This is getting serious!
Not too suprising. I'm following the 4chan threads to get an indication of what's actually going on when you have a bunch of people who don't give a shit. The requests for further money staples are already there, including all fetches/duals.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Foil-Jace...item2c7a97a6cb
allready done
I don't think it's possible to stop the counterfeiters. The best Chinese fake Ids are incredibly good, they pass UV tests and everything. Clearly these counterfeiters aren't the best, but some one out there will eventually be able to make exact replicas. A little hologram isn't going to stop anything. Getting the best fake id shop closed down required years of work and cooperation from diplomats and ambassadors. There's no way those officials will give a fuck about fake Magic cards. As soon as the best id shop was closed down, there was a new one to take it's place. I think right now eBay needs to do the responsible thing and stop these fakes from being sold. I don't know what the long term solution will be. We might be fucked. I don't see how anybody can possibly be pro counterfeits. Even the unsanctioned vintage tournaments I've participated in were held in card shops that have a lot to lose if these counterfeits don't get stopped.
I hear ya.
Very worried that if the fakes are of high enough quality that the game could crash. One thing I really don`t understand are people willing to buy these proxies to fill out their cubes or for testing etc. Not only are you helping the game possibly become extinct but can't you just either use a sharpie or use your own printer? Your own printer obviously isn't carbon copy but it suits the purpose.
I would like cards to be cheaper like anyone else, but not at the possible consquence of Magic the Gathering no longer existing. Or only becoming online.
Ebay doesn't care if sellers are selling fakes. Sellers are responsible for selling legal goods. If you have a problem with a seller contact the seller. And in an extreme case, contact the authorities. As long as eBay is taking money off the top of transactions, they could care less if its legal or counterfeit goods. EBay essentially washes their hands of legal obligations, unless their are obligated to take a side from a legal perspective. For $500-5 MTG listings, I think they have much bigger fish to fry.
It would take WotC, a huge response from the eBay community, or US authorities to shut down counterfeit MTG listings on eBay. I don't see it happening in the short term.
Actually Reddit turned a corner after that SCG article. Now comments that are pro-counterfeit are quickly downvoted. Salvation is banning or suspending people who ask for information on ordering the cards or admit to ordering the cards. This thread is currently the low water mark on the internet for discussing these fakes.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
I'm sure if we had downvotes on the source you would see a similar pattern.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that, given an acceptable level of quality in the counterfeit, that it mostly benefits the consumer.
It's like the pharmaceutical industry. There are name brand medicines that Big Pharma companies charge exorbitant amounts for. Then there are small pill manufacturers that simply reproduce their process at lower cost and sell these knock-off pills for far less money. Most of these "counterfeit" pills are of similar quality and save consumers millions of dollars on a product that is inordinately priced by the company that originally produced it.
Most counterfeit laws are in place only to protect the vast profits of the originator of a product. Do you give props to the originator for coming up with the idea? Sure, but at a certain point, demand will need to be placated by facsimiles unless the originator lowers his prices and/or increases the supply.
The guy who wrote that article is simply a Magic speculator who makes all of or part of his living buying and selling Magic cards. I.e. not someone playing the game for the enjoyment of the game.What are you even doing? I mean you are going so far around your ass with this logic I don't even see where you are coming from. No one here is really making money off MTG we don't want this to get out of hand because it will hurt the people who host events and then there will be less events. I'm sorry you don't like paying for cards, I don't like paying for anything, but people don't hold events and host FNMs out of the goodness of their hearts. Read this article it will lay out the general reasons people disagree with counterfeiting. http://www.starcitygames.com/article...eit-Cards.html
Again, the only way that players themselves should be concerned about counterfeiting is with regard to its ability to affect the bottom line of Wizards, the producer of the cards, and the ability to affect the bottom line of tournament organizers like Starcitygames.
And the link between event organization and increased supply of fake cards isn't completely proven either. Will Wizards withdraw funding from Legacy events if their product is widely copied? Maybe. They haven't exactly been ambassadors of the format to being with. What does Legacy get now, a Grand Prix a year?
EBay has copyright holders and general users police the listings. Copyright holders have special privileges and can end listings with the click of a button. They also have some automatic features which prevent certain keywords in titles. WotC/Hasbro can grab the reigns and KO the listings as they see fit. Or one can go on a crusade and report the listings as counterfeit.
You are a classic example of slippery slope, do you live your life hysterically by stretching every single conversation?
I have typed this sentences like 3x already: People around the world counterfeit Currency and Magic card ALL THE TIME and it's Not on the news. For you to harp about your morale superiority on a Magic forum doesn't change a thing. You can do a kickstarter or submit articles to TIMES or whatever, people still do it anyway. That's called economics.
Therefore, the attention is to analyze the impact of Legacy tournament events and attendance. My personal belief is that the number of tournaments will remain about the same, but the attendance will go up, due to influx of supply.
Personally, I think this is one of the most interesting and compelling topics related to MtG in the last ten years, and even it's entire history.
Do I support counterfeit cards? Absolutely not. Certainly appropriate authorities must do what they can to extinguish the fire ASAP. But that said, this is a forum, and it should promote free discussion. This is in important topic to the game and the community. As such I feel strongly that calling this thread a low water mark is completely inappropriate.
I personally feel that the SCG article was not pro-counterfeit and, to me, felt like propaganda from Wizards.
I do think that Wizards has some accountability for their economic model. They sell cardboard. They do wonderful things with it, but they do make alot of money. Magic is not a game like others. Put simply, you must have thousands of dollars invested in the game to be able to truly compete in any given format and must be ready to continually invest those kinds of sums.
Magic is a business. It exists to make money. And it has been plain to me that Magic has gotten greedy. They are not interested in making a great game, but in profit margins. I quit the game some time ago for these reasons. I still find Magic interesting, but I no longer am willing to pay for their product.
I think that counterfeit cards will be a continuing problem for Magic. Obviously, it will need to be addressed aggressively and quickly. And I really think Wizards will need to be transparent about this issue, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
I hope you can see the difference between medicines and a trading card game.
Somebody before me already addressed this: you can play with proxies in not sanctioned events right now if you want!
If you believe that a proxy-based tournament scene would prosper in the hands of players why don't you start a "proxy league"? I'll tell you why: because you want to play sanctioned events. Guess what, organizers are the hands of WotC when they organize sanctioned tournaments, it is their rules, their game, their tournament.
If you want to play under your rules you are free to do it, but don't ask WotC to sanction an event outside of their rules.
Please, before you address me as a "speculator/hoarder", I'm not. I own a playset of all the cards I use to play Legacy at LGSs around my area and the occasional big event. For the record, I too believe that the RL is a total idiocy and should be abolished.
There is a lot of hypocrisy in the arguments that support the production and distribution of counterfeited cards and it is a shame that those being hypocritical can't see the damage that will be done to the game if fake Magic cards start to be prevalent.
Comparing these fakes to a legitimate product for use in sanctioned events is just ridiculous.
This isn't comparable to using a generic pharmaceutical or pirating music. This is counterfeiting casino chips from Bellagio and heading down to the Texas Hold 'Em table. After all, it's just a game, why should you be excluded?
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