Looks cool :) Just as an FYI, you wrote in your link that Qasali Pridemage can destroy Humility, but it can't, unfortunately.Originally Posted by 203995014
Swan song comes in for every form of combo and miracles. When there are annoying enchantments lingering basically, or I fear a huge hoser. I've found that holding a grip of counters works wonders most of the time, but having a holistic package is better. I could see going to 4, and the 3 isn't set it stone.
Usually swan song is just there to make a revoker stick, but countering sneak attack/blood moon can be big. When I'm heavy on counters they expect the counter, when I'm light on them the counters blow them out.
Seems very interesting. However, I think I'd miss brainstorm and show&tell too much. Don't you?
Sure, I love using GSZ in the U/G version as well. However, It's impact is high in the first turn (Arbor) and very high later on (Titan), but during turns 3-5 I greatly prefer playing S&T. Therefore I play both (2 zenith, 3 S&T). I play the zeniths mainly as Titan's 5 and 6.
I think this approach is the only real home for GSZ, if it has one at all. Arbor, additional titans, maybe a tutorable hate bear. Everything else looks like a maverick strategy. While thrun is obviously good against fair decks, there's nothing "turbo" about him in an eldrazi deck. Even after all of that, I still find playing Oracle to be better, at a nice CMC, which gives you the hedge you were looking for in GSZ anyway..
Oracle draws a lot of power from how well it plays with Sensei's Divining Top. Set a land second card down, draw your card for a turn, play the land off your library. If you activate the Top, you've gone through the top five cards in your library in one turn. If you played a second land off your library, you've seen six. Aside from the fact that it literally accelerates you (from playing the aforementioned land), it's the fact that it allows you to go through your deck that much faster. The fact that you have to show your opponent each card you draw (even off Brainstorm or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth) is a small price to pay.
She's also pseudo-lifegain as she's one of those creatures that demands an answer, and if BUG is in your meta, Abrupt Decay won't do it.
Yup. Oracle is a real house. It helps set up going through the next phase of the game, while showing an immediate threat. Drawing two extra cards per turn is insane.
Took the latest list from Rock Lee to a split final yesterday at my LGS.
Not a big tournament, hence nothing relevant to report, but tinkering with the shop cards to spend my credit I got hold of a Kiora and I can't stop thinking that it may find a place in the deck. Did anybody try it already?
The +1 is definitely relevant, the -1 is gold in Turbo Eldrazi and the ultimate may provide an additional win condition if needed.
It also gets out of AD range and being a PW is generally more difficult to remove than, say, Oracle. The biggest drawback I see (a part from being very low on loyalty when cast) is the need of the double colored mana, even if in the list I played yesterday I had access to double U/G basics.
Thoughts? I'm going to try and sneak it in and check if it has any impact on the game....
Pretty sure it has been discussed only a few pages back. The general conclusion was that there are several problems with it. It initially has only 2 loyalty, making it very vulnerable (and you can't use it's '-1' twice in a row immediatly) and probably costs too much mana. The '-1' move is by far the most relevant IMO, but is outclassed by Oracle of Mul Daya if you want that effect. Oracle can be found by zenith (if you play it), and immediatly performs this effect multiple turns in a row.
I see Kiora's application, but if you want this type of effect there are better options, I think.
Needle, repeal, SDT, Revoker are all "control elements" which are generally regarded as under-costed, low investment solutions to keep your opponent from winning. The high mana cards in a control-ish deck need to be real haymakers. The other pieces bring you to that game state. For example, in miracles, a lot of cheap instants are used to bring the game to where miracles wants to be: spending big mana on Jace or Entreat the Angels, finishing the game in a huge way. Our decks do the same thing, even more so, with Titan and Eldrazi. So, if you're going to be spending the "big mana" it's better to for it to be high impact, like a titian, instead of a midrange creature that is usually at the very top of GW deck curves. Repeal is a beast because you don't need to control the battlefield with advantage at all turns, like a midrange deck needs to, but rather survive the battlefield long enough to overpower it outright. Oracle, while it is a hedge for the CMC does take some manipulation to exploit (worst case, exploit the stack abilities before removal), it is at least along the lines of big mana, big win. I win off oracle alone, probably 15% of my matches.
Also this deck is legit, congrats to him. Blind field I want this type of list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=66174
DIdn't see the 13th place showing. Nice call Tim. Congrats Clinton, would love a tournament report.
first off I have to give props to sauce for the list I used at the event. this was the first time ever playing the deck, I had only watched him play a couple matches. He played an o-stone over candle in the main and 4 trop over the forest, I just couldn't find a 4th trop.
Finished 7-2 on the day with losses in round 3 to elves and round 8 to DnT
4of, 4of, 4of and more 4ofs, I didnt like any list i saw combing the net, to many 2's and 3's of key cards just didnt like it. A few of my board choices were out in left field.
the forces, swan songs, BEB and elephant grass were great all day. which left me with 2 slots, i wanted to put 2 commandere for the elves match but i think that would have been to greedy, plus i couldn't fine them. so i settled on a moment's peace to maybe fog a craterhoof attack, plus discard doesnt stop it. the glen elendra, i lost to it playing storm in dc against 12 post so i thought id give it a try, did not use it all day. should have been an o-stone or a way to kill small dudes.
im not great at remembering to many details so ill explain the best i can remember
R1 vs sneak and show
G1 lead of with map on the play, he turn 2 show and tells in grisel brand. i put a land into play crack map for karakas, play pith needling naming sneak attack the following turn he scoops. im guessing he didnt find a force in 14 cards
G2 i force a sneak attack, force a jace, then he trys to breach in an emrakul, i crop rotate for karakas and he concedes
board in the 10 counterspells
1-0 R2 vs sauce playing 12 post
G1 i learned that locus check all locus on about turn 4, he thought i knew. i played a pair of titans which allowed him to cast his ulamog which blew up my eye, i bounced it a couple times the just stared throwing them into ulamog. he had a needle on top for most of the game and i had 2 in my hand and a show and tell and crop rotation. when cast his first titan, he found i and i was able to crop rotate for vezuva copying his eye get emrakul end of game.
G2 i had emrakul in my opener, he played his titan first, i followed, grabbed 2nd and 3rd cloudpost, cast emrakul the next turn after finding karakas
i thought i was going to lose for sure going in knowing he had way more knowledge of the deck, he didnt really need to get the eye game one, as he had ulamog and a titan and i had nothing relevant in play or hand. G2 i think just having emrakul in hand is what won me that game
board in a few forces
2-0 R3 vs elves
G1 he keeps a one lander with DRS, i repeal it and show and tell titan on turn 3 and thats about it for this game
G2 he leads with drs, followed by thoughtseize you SnT, double therapy my 2 tops and 2 swan song on turn 2. we both do nothing for a few turns he attacks me for a couple each turn eventually finding NO
G3 long story short he goes off with glimpse and drew both hoofs but couldnt get mana to cast it, just passes the turn. at this point all i can do is hope for a draw. i drew a top the found a map, searched up glaciam chasm and hoped for a draw. i had boarded out 2 needles and ended up just dying the next turn when he activated one deathrite 4 times from 7 life
boarded in forces and swan songs, and moments peace
2-1 R4 vs bug(non delver)
G1 played a candle on turn three, drew a ulamog which made quick work of his 2 TNN and permanents
G2 he forced and inquistioned both my tops, i preemptively needled liliana, then he played jace. gets jace up to 13, i double crop rotate to have 3 cloudpost, and top deck a ulamog to kill jace which got forced, then i found some a trop and was able to titan into emarkul a few turns later
i put 4 forces in for G2 then took them out just so i looked like a cared about what his deck was
3-1 R5 vs smallpox
G1 his only pressure was one mishra and showed a titan after getting sinkholed a couple times, and a needle on lily for insurace.
G2 he dark rituals into liliana turn 1, i follow with needle on liliana. then proceed to post, post, post, eye into emrakul
i think i boarded in forces just to catch a hymn or liliana, dont think i needed them
4-1 R6 vs belcher
G1 he probed me and said go with no land drop, so my buttholed puckered up real fast. he finally found something and made 14 goblins on turn 4. I was able to hide behind a glacial chasm for a few turns, i bounced back between 1 and 5 life between glimmer post and vesuvaing glacial chasm, but a judge thought that i was taking to long to figure out how to not die the following turn and gave me a slow play warning. a little tilted for getting a warning in this match i punt away the win, tutor up emarakul then just go straight attack with ulamog, forgetting to cast emmy.
G2 i mull to 5, titan, bog, 2 brainstorm, Fow. he goes off turn one only have the burning wish. snap force. on to game 3 basically after that, drew a top and found my land
G3 on the draw, i keep forest, karakas, glacial chasm, needle, elephant grass, brainstorm, and glimmerpost. he mulled to 6 so i figured he chances of belching me t1 were low. thankfully he just said go. i needle his belcher t1. he makes 16 goblins on turn 3. i play elephant grass an got it up to 9 CU, i just kept drawing cloudpost and glimmer post. i only saced it when i attacked with emrakul and ulamog. and by this point i had 2 needles on belcher and a hand full of counters
boarded in everything except glen elendra
5-1 R7 vs WUR delver
G1 i play cloudpost and get the oh no from my opponent. he t2 stone forges for batterskull, i needle the mystic, the next 3 turns i time walk him with repel when he tries to hit me with jitte. makes some land drops cavern in a titan and that about all for this game
G2 went pretty much the same way, he got close, he got to swing for leathal but i had the crop rotate for a glimmer void, then cast emrakul followed by ulamog
no boarding required for this match
6-1 R8 vs DnT
G1 i get double wasted and die fast
G2 turn three show in a titan and cast emrakul 2 turns later
G3 turn one i needle wasteland, he played a cannonist, i play top, by turn 3 i decide im going to show in my emmy, i needle karakas, after a few turns of getting ported and thalia i put him into play. he put a SFM into play and forgot the trigger. Now i new there was a titan on top of my library, which ended up being the right choice to put into play looking back. but he attack knocking me from 13 to 8. he had 6 lands and 8 power in play so i couldnt attack, he drew flickerwisp and i died. after lots of discussion, needling port and just putting the titan into play the just cast emrakul was the right line of play to take.
i boarded in elephant grass only i beleive
6-2 R9 vs burn
G1 show a titan gain life make mana rinse and repeat til emrakul, he was stuck on one land forever
g2 same thing, but he had land. i never got PoP, but was always was out of leather from it or had a swan song or crop rotate for chasm
board in forces BEB and 3 swan song
overall, this deck was the most fun ive had playing magic in a long time, and I normally get my fun in legacy playing ANT. My sideboarding out was all over the place, 1s and 2ofs everywhere, i boarded out bog against burn and DnT, and g3 of belcher, ulamog and candle came out alot, mostly in the counter heavy matches.
thats all i got, cant wait for Jersey. This deck just demolishes fair decks and the format is full of them right now
i think that i figure that this decks bad matchups are the mono tribal decks DnT, gobos, merfolk, and elves, i really wouldnt want to play against any, they have high and fast threat density and cheap disrution
Last edited by caw_86; 04-14-2014 at 06:23 PM. Reason: bad MU analysis
the 12post mirror is tricky. gj caw :)
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
First of all congrats for your finish!
I'm curious how you liked the three copies of pithing needle in the main: did you find them useful? Would phyrexian revoker be better since it can stop mana abulities although it dies to creatures removal? Or do you think in retrospective some other effect (like oblivion stone) would be better?
Thanks!
Ignorance is strength
ok, a sb card then
If you care at all about wasteland then I would suggest playing pithing needle
Things i needled
Sneak attack x2
Exp map
Jtms
Lotv x3
Belcher x4
Sfm
Scading tarn
Flooded strand
Drs
Aether vial
Wasteland
Karakas
The 2 fetchlands were only after i annihilated all his permanents
I do love the deck, but there are still many things the deck folds against pre-board.. Recurring wasteland sucks. Combining pressure & control sucks (death & taxes). Any fast combo deck sucks (storm). Chalice on 1 sucks. I wish the deck was more resilient to non-permission control decks. How do I go about that? Just... Play better?
Edit: Aren't all strategies I just mentioned weak to Devastation Tide? I know it has been discussed to some extent previously, but why not this one? Our non-land board presence is very light if we're not winning anyway.
Last edited by Hencules; 04-15-2014 at 05:25 PM. Reason: thought of option
sneak and show is a fine match up,
i would have beat belcher G1 without my forces if i was thinking straight , and i still won the match.
small pox didnt even feel that bad, and they have wasteland, sinkhole, smallpox and liliana.
tendrils storm you are just dead game one though, i do agree with that though
I should have said if you are concerned about lands then you should play pithing needle over revoker.
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