[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[ZimAshe]

If you were to run a 1-of card to abuse ETB abilities, that card should be recurring nightmare imo. If either one is worth it really depends on how many creatures/ETB abilities you are running.

I was thinking of Angle as more of a way to dodge removal. I lost a game because my opponent had to cast dig through time to find a Plow to send my Rhino farming. If that hadn't happened I win the next turn. although with recurring nightmare there is the potential to "burn them out" with looping Rhinos. It's definitely worth some testing.

[The Crow's Eye]

How's this look for a Wolf-Run Nic Fit?


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon

2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Towers
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Malestrom Pulse
3 Slaughter Games

I wanted to try using Vraska and Sarkhan. Lili seems good here, as a way of ditching cards I don't need.

[pettdan]

Woohoo, here we go!
OR
Sorry for the Kevinishly long post! :)

I finally got to playtest my/our ideas in a local tournament yesterday. This is the deck I discussed with PfireMC a few weeks ago. I should also mention that I've played Sdematt's the Rock list a few times this autumn so I'm very influenced by that list and it's quite interesting to see he's/you're turning the Rock in the Nic Fit direction while we're (with this build) approaching a Rock Fit (especially with the transformational sideboard plan mentioned below). If it works is another question.

Initial list from Pfiremc:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850860

With some added ideas from this post tested in the deck list below:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850946

And with these updates since the post above:
-1 Lingering Souls, +1 Liliana
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Zealous Persecution
- 2 Gaea's Cradle, + 1 Bayou (waiting for cradles, not sure they are worth it though)

Above changes are motivated by a) more anti combo in the main with an extra Liliana b) need to combine Liliana with a sweeper c) no Cradles right now so can skip 1 souls.
I'm of the opinion that it's worth weighing every card in the deck list twice to consider an alternative that fits in the deck, the meta and is relevant vs combo decks. Giving up on the combo matchup completely in g1 just seems like a bad deck building strategy. For this reason, and due to running Punishing Fire vs the small creature decks, the Punishing Nic Fit seems like the best version. And the junk answer to these concepts could be Liliana with Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge in the main deck. Do notice that adding sweepers alongside Liliana is not only synergetic but also hedges with the sweepers being extra strong in the matchups where Liliana is extra weak.

So, the deck list (again) with 60 + 15 cards:

Nic Fit core:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

Removal:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Liliana of the Veil

Equipment package:
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Lingering Souls

GSZ-package:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Card selection/drawing:
3 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (22):
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Humility

A few SB-comments:
Humility is sweet in this deck, with the equipment, souls and persecutions.
Surgical is good vs the fast graveyard decks and for great synergy with Cabal Therapy, in response to Brainstorm.
I may try Aura Shards, since I lack Deed and play Arbor + Souls. And since I want mass-artifact removal not being Deed.

Transformational sideboard?
I have an idea to put a copy of KotR in the main and 2-3 Wastelands in the side, allowing me to switch veterans to wastelands and transform into the Rock [a more Rock-like strategy] when appropriate. With the low mana curve it looks doable, may need to lower it slightly. That will surprise anyone trying to fetch duals to keep basics in their library for veteran triggers. And playing on land light hands. Such a transformational sideboard (of 2-3 slots) could be taken one step further by the inclusion of 2 Trinispheres, playing along the lines of Sylvan Plug, without the Sol lands but with 4 GSZ for t1 Arbor and 3 Deathries giving 7 cards enabling a t2 Trinisphere.

...

TOURNAMENT REPORT from the local game store Dragon's Lair, Stockholm, Sweden on December 10th:

Here is a tournament report from a local tournament, not too relevant for most of you so just skip. But since I really enjoy reading all of your reports I figured I will offer this back to the Source. And I appologize for not having taken proper notes and giving a blurry representation of the games.

I went 3-1 winning against Goblin Stax, Death & Taxes and Miracles and losing against BUG Delver.

Match 1, Goblin Stax: 2-0
Short version: I slowly kill of chalices in both games and kill him with Siege Rhino and whatever G2.
G1:
He was landing plenty of chalices and trinispheres in both games. First game I think he goes first, I landed a deathrite on turn two and he plays a chalice on 1 turn 2. I follow up with a Liliana, ticking it up. He goes Rabblemaster I think and starts picking on Liliana. I think I may have followed up with a Siege Rhino (from my 3 fetched basics + deathrite) because he kept his Rabblemaster at home, hitting with 2 tokens next turn and playing probably a trinisphere. Next turn I may have decayed the chalice and therapied a Moggcatcher. He's low on life from Siege Rhino and several Ancient Tomb-activations so I beat him down over a few turns.
SB: +1 Qasali, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Abrupt Decay, +2(?) Deluge; -1 Gaddock Teeg, 1(?) Cabal Therapy
G2:
Second game he plays t1 chalice @1 and t2 chalice @2, making my hand of Veteran, Therapy and (1 more 1-drop, SDT?) slightly inefficient. I also had a Decay but the targets were lining up fast, I think t3 Trinisphere and shortly after Ensnaring Bridge. I chose to Decay Chalice@1 during my turn 3 and then waited a turn before I could GSZ for Qasali with mana available for destroying something with it. I played Deathrite for 3 during that turn of waiting, figuring it will both accellerate and be a way to close the game through the Bridge he had played. I get another Deathrite into play start picking at him for 2 points of damage each turn. Once I get the Qasali mana I think he had just gotten Jitte into play so I destroy it, instead of his Bridge, and he just gets below 3 cards before I can get the Qasali back to my hand from the graveyard with the Sword. Finally I manage to hit his bridge and beat down with something. It's a bit blurred out, but artifact removal was obviously crucial; Deed would have been great but I pulled it off without so obviously not necessary. I have done a little playtesting vs Sylvan Plug on Cockatrice and the matchup is pretty good, so I think I'm packing a reasonable amount of artifact hate even without Deed.

Match 2, BUG Delver: 0-2
Short version: I don't get my lifegain online in the first game and in the second I lose to drawing few lands and a bad keep. Goyf and Delver may have something to do with it too.
G1:
I think he opens with a fetch, I play Deathrite happily and it's eot Disfigured. He follows with Delver, it doesn't flip in about 2 turns but is joined by a Goyf. I play Veteran, he flips Delver and I think attacks allowing me to fetch for lands. He plays another Delver, I play Sylvan and Jitte and something which is all Decayed and Spell Pierced. He cruises, yuck. I have a Vault of the Archangel out but not enough mana to use it and no blocker to kill the goyf. While I'm playing Sylvan and Jitte he's attacking for 3, 3 and 3+5 or so, I think I tapped out for a GSZ for Siege Tank which was countered during that last attack. I had a fetch available but forgot to get Arbor which would have bought me a turn. Next turn I get the Siege Tank into play, but I'm already at 3-4 life points. One more turn would have allowed me to start gaining life with Siege Rhino + Vault but it would still have been tough.
SB: +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Abrupt Decay, +2 Toxic Deluge, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -2 Zealous Persecution, -1(?) Veteran Explorer, -1(?) Cabal Therapy
G2:
I have loads of relevant cmc 1-2 cards in hand but only a plains and a Vault. I feel like gambling since all I need is a single fetch, and he needs to answer my Stoneforge for Jitte. So of course he kills the stoneforge and wastes my vault and I draw no lands over the next 5-6 turns.

Match 3, Death & Taxes: 2-1
Short version: Zealous Persecution in main was good, go to G3 for juicy opening.
G1:
In the first game the crucial plays I remember are that I kill his threatening Aven Mindcensor and some other creature with a Zealous Persecution.
SB: +2 Toxic Deluge, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1(?) Pithing Needle; -1 Gaddock Teeg, -2 Liliana, and possibly one more card.
G2:
He wins, forgot all about this. He may have Flickerwisped a Batterskull token at some point, probably beaten down with 3/x fliers.
G3: Pretty nice start, showing the power of Cabal Therapy. I start with a Cabal Therapy, naming Aether Vial (it enables such dirty tricks, rushing, mana denial etc). Turn 2 I topdeck a second Therapy and get his Aven Mindcensor, play Veteran and buyback Cabal to take his Stoneforge. The two lands allow me to GSZ for Veteran no 2 and buyback the second Cabal Therapy to take his last nonland card in hand, a Flickerwisp. So T2 I have 6 lands in play and the opponent has 3-4 lands [as only cards] in hand. Proceed to win the game.

Match 4, Miracles: 1-0
Short story: a long grind vs miracles with an unbelievable finish (spoiler: it's not a miracle).
G1:
When we sit down opposite to each other we both realize we're probably not going to be able to finish this game, both of us usually playing control decks. The store is closing forcing us to finish in 40 minutes or so. This game is quite blurry since we played for 30+ turns with constant action and topdecking skills on his side (I had Sylvan, drawing plenty).
He gets a slow start with no tops or brainstorms. He counterspells my two-drop, probably Mystic. Third turn I therapy for Jace and miss, seeing an entreat and double FoW's. I get some creature into play and flashback Cabal to take the FoW's. The next turns are blurry but involve decay decay on his hard cast entreat for 1, another decay in response to top activation - which gave him Terminus to sweep my creature. Liliana kills something and does some discarding. Sylvan draws me plenty of cards and Liliana has him low on cards but he keeps topdecking counterspells, FoW and snapcaster for three consecutive turns countering my Siege Tank and other repeated threats. I probably get a Mystic into play and Sword of L&S for STP-protection but he terminuses. I really want to connect only once to start pulling Siege Tanks back from the graveyard but he follows up the counterspell-turns with swords, snap, terminus, terminus for my Dryad Arbor which I'm fetching back, and Clique. Also he has mad Venser action blocking and bouncing my 1-2 creatures (veteran + dryad) that are equiped but can't get through. However it keeps him tapped out. He keeps bouncing and I keep attacking, shuffling and drawing extra with library but I can only get more lands and Sylvans on the top of my library. Finally I get a Sigarda on the top 3 of the library but notice that I have only drawn 1 white mana in the 30 turns or so. And the lands on the top of my library are not fetches, by now. So after 3-4 turns waiting for a threat or a second white land time is called. It's looking grim. I finally get the land to play a Sigarda during the first turn of time. He's at about 17 life and I'm at about 3 life from Sylvan. Hit him during the third round of time for 5 getting two jitte counters, he's now down to 12. I use one counter to kill his Clique(?). For some reason I couldn't afford equipping the sword too. During the fifth and last turn of time I equip the sword too and use the Jitte counter to deal 9 sweet deamage in the air, sword triggering to allow me to pick up Siege Tank which is just enough to deal the last 3 points of damage. Sweetest win in a long time, but we made a couple of mistakes throughout the games both of us.

Any comments appreciated, especially on deck building choices. Or you can PM me to tell me what I should or shouldn't write in a report or this thread...

[bryanzoll]

How's this look for a Wolf-Run Nic Fit?


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon

2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Towers
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Malestrom Pulse
3 Slaughter Games

I wanted to try using Vraska and Sarkhan. Lili seems good here, as a way of ditching cards I don't need.

I'd say cut persecutor for obstinate baloth and run 1 sarkhan and 3 lili over 2 sarkhan and 2 vraska

[The Crow's Eye]

I'd say cut persecutor for obstinate baloth and run 1 sarkhan and 3 lili over 2 sarkhan and 2 vraska

Thanks, I'll look into three Lili. I notice that the Scapeshift variant on the first page opts for Stormbreath in its creature mix...what's the reasoning for this over something like Primeval Titan or more Thragtusks? Also, there was a rentsy Rock Nic Fit here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75666

Could a 2-2-2 of Lili, Vraska, Sarkhan work if I followed this deck's model, or is it too much of a gamble? My mainboard changes would see Thrun, Huntmaster in place of the Obliterators, and Scooze over Bloodghast.

[Bobmans]

Stormbreath Dragon is pretty efficient. A 4/4 flyer with haste and protection from white (plow proof) makes this a strong creature vs say Miracles. The only problem offcourse would be it not be searchable with GSZ. In that regard i am always avoiding non green creatures in PFire lists (or any non pod lists for that matter)

As for Sarkhan dragonspeaker i am not sure. He might be solid on the offense but defensive he seems a bit week and him costing double RR might be an issue (sometimes). Also the 2/2/2 split seems akward. I would prefer a 3/1/1 split at the most. With 3x liliana. Yesterday i did some testing with Vraska, the Unseen and it was pretty good. Having a walker with Deathtouch is OK, at least it's a trade. Her - ability was most relevant most of the time. Also having her ultimate as a wincon is nice to. With some amount of board control it is pretty hard for the opponent to get rid of the three tokens. She gets the MD spot over Garruk Relentless which is now on the board and thinking to switch him for Sarkhan the Mad as was suggested earlier.

Also i have been thinking about Primeval Titan. I really think for a 6 drop the Titan doesn't have to much impact on the board. Does anyone has been having the same thoughts and wants it replaced with something else? And what could/would that be?

[bryanzoll]

Thanks, I'll look into three Lili. I notice that the Scapeshift variant on the first page opts for Stormbreath in its creature mix...what's the reasoning for this over something like Primeval Titan or more Thragtusks? Also, there was a rentsy Rock Nic Fit here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75666

Could a 2-2-2 of Lili, Vraska, Sarkhan work if I followed this deck's model, or is it too much of a gamble? My mainboard changes would see Thrun, Huntmaster in place of the Obliterators, and Scooze over Bloodghast.

My thoughts on Stormbreath dragon has always been the same...if you cant tutor for it, it doesn't belong in a GSZ deck. I tried dragon, I tried other non-green creatures (with scapewish) and everytime I had a GSZ with 7+ mana in play and needed the ability of that creature I just cried. It sucks not being able to tutor up a 1 or 2-of in the deck. One of the reasons we run all green colored creatures is because we can run them as those 1 or 2-ofs but still effectively have 4-5 copies of them in the deck due to GSZ. My suggestion would be to stick with creatures where you will have more consistency from and those will be in the color green.

As far as a 2-2-2 split, my first impression is that 6 planeswalkers in any nic fit deck just seems like its too many. I would suggest 4 at the most, 3 being lili, 1 being sarkhan or vraska. From there, see how sarkhan or vraska improve matchups where you feel you are weak. That is one of the reasons why Liliana is so strong in the deck, is because she significantly helps out game again decks where they would otherwise always have the upper hand (i.e. storm).

[PhyrexianLibrarian]

Surgical is good vs the fast graveyard decks and for great synergy with Cabal Therapy, in response to Brainstorm.

I just want to clarify how this interaction works.

- You cast Cabal Therapy and pass priority.
- Opponent casts Brainstorm, you let it resolve.
- After Brainstorm resolves, you get priority again, and can Surgically Extract the Brainstorm before your opponent gets a chance to counter the original Therapy. Chances are they can't counter both.
- Profit?

[Madmankevinx]

Does anyone have a good up to date G/B/W list right now? I'm looking at adopting this deck as one of my go to decks since I sold all my blue duals and staples to pay bills... Anyone ever try Sun Titan out? Recurring things like Deed seems kinda fun with a 6/6 vigilance. Just wondering.

[uncletiggy]

My list is on the previous page its a non pod gbw version pretty straight forward there isn't really a standardized agreed upon list most people are either on stoneforge or pod both is doable but I think my list is a good place to start.

[HoneyT]

Does anyone have a good up to date G/B/W list right now? I'm looking at adopting this deck as one of my go to decks since I sold all my blue duals and staples to pay bills... Anyone ever try Sun Titan out? Recurring things like Deed seems kinda fun with a 6/6 vigilance. Just wondering.

This is the Abzan list I would recommend:

2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgment
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Sensei's Divining Top

SB
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Memoricide
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge


Also, for those dabbling in the Punishing Fire version, Liliana is the tits and Sarkhan and Vraska are hot garbage. If you want another planeswalker, Garruk, Primal Hunter is your man.

[jbone2016]

My Current Junk Mystic Fit List (feels nice to go 4-0...twice now)
Land (22)
3 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

Creatures (16)
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Spells and stuff (23)
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sword to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal (Damn tokens)

SB (kinda of messy)
1 Golgari Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Humility
1 Extripate
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 AShen Rider
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

[Bobmans]

Also, for those dabbling in the Punishing Fire version, Liliana is the tits and Sarkhan and Vraska are hot garbage. If you want another planeswalker, Garruk, Primal Hunter is your man.

Liliana should be there as a 3-off. Agreed on that. Tried 2, but hated it. Never drew it when i needed her. For the rest i disagree.
Vraska was awesome every time it hit the board. Either it turned the gamestate aroud (destroying Tombstalker or a Batterskull) or it upped trading for multiple creatures or it just upped and ultimate FTW while using removal to keep the path clean. I like it. I haven't tried dicking around with Sarkhan yet. Also going to try out Garruk, Apex Predator. 7 mana is a lot, but it has pretty much everything it needs.

Garruk, PH is awesome and it sucks at the same time. While sometimes it just steals games overloading on 3/3's, but most of the time he does not have to much effect on the board state. In the end i am not sure If Sarkhan (the Mad) would be better then Garruk PH, but at least i am just gonna try it and find out.

[pfiremc13]

Woohoo, here we go!
OR
Sorry for the Kevinishly long post! :)

I finally got to playtest my/our ideas in a local tournament yesterday. This is the deck I discussed with PfireMC a few weeks ago. I should also mention that I've played Sdematt's the Rock list a few times this autumn so I'm very influenced by that list and it's quite interesting to see he's/you're turning the Rock in the Nic Fit direction while we're (with this build) approaching a Rock Fit (especially with the transformational sideboard plan mentioned below). If it works is another question.

Initial list from Pfiremc:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850860

With some added ideas from this post tested in the deck list below:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850946

And with these updates since the post above:
-1 Lingering Souls, +1 Liliana
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Zealous Persecution
- 2 Gaea's Cradle, + 1 Bayou (waiting for cradles, not sure they are worth it though)

Above changes are motivated by a) more anti combo in the main with an extra Liliana b) need to combine Liliana with a sweeper c) no Cradles right now so can skip 1 souls.
I'm of the opinion that it's worth weighing every card in the deck list twice to consider an alternative that fits in the deck, the meta and is relevant vs combo decks. Giving up on the combo matchup completely in g1 just seems like a bad deck building strategy. For this reason, and due to running Punishing Fire vs the small creature decks, the Punishing Nic Fit seems like the best version. And the junk answer to these concepts could be Liliana with Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge in the main deck. Do notice that adding sweepers alongside Liliana is not only synergetic but also hedges with the sweepers being extra strong in the matchups where Liliana is extra weak.

So, the deck list (again) with 60 + 15 cards:

Nic Fit core:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

Removal:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Liliana of the Veil

Equipment package:
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Lingering Souls

GSZ-package:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Card selection/drawing:
3 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (22):
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Humility

[tournament report]

Hey, thanks for working on this deck a little more.

I don't like ZP's in the main since not a lot of decks have a lot of X/1's. I really like it in the board though.

The singleton top doesn't seem necessary to me, what's your opinion on it?

I agree that liliana's could be good mainboard, I just can't find the room for them.

I think that with some decks, the g1 combo matchup is hopeless. But since this deck can have siege-rhino-fueled 5-6 turn kills I think this deck has a chance. So I moved the sideboard teeg to the main, cutting sun titan and adding a baneslayer to the side for the matchups where you need a little more lategame.

What do you think is the best utility land? I like gavony township but vault of the archangel is sweet too.

Do you stand by your list after the tournament or would you change anything?

[pettdan]

@Pfiremc:
I'll try to answer, but more playing is needed. I'd like to read about your testing too if you're doing some. :)

The top is because it hurts very badly not getting some draw mechanism into play in the late game. And top can be shuffled back in easily when excessive as opposite to sylvan no 4. And is harder for opp to remove. Consider it a card selection insurance. It seems important in helping us compete with blue decks in terms of finding the right answer/threat at the right time. Actually thinking of it this may be the relevant swap for testing Courser I was looking for. He rids us of bad topdecks too, keeping lands off the top (and as a bonus puts them into play). With added lifegain.

Sword of light and shadow has been really nice. Protection from swords and skull, offering life gain and tutorable recurring nightmare ... And boosting spirit tokens are all very relevant things. It won me a game against miracles in the fifth round of time due to siege rhino replayed and was close to doing heavy work in the stax matchup via qasali chain killing bridges and chalices. Will keep jitte but could see myself trying a second sword of light and shadow too. Of course i have the ZP's covering the dirty jitte work on x/1's, without them the choice swings slightly in favor of jitte. When it comes to ZP I was thinking it may depend on the amount of goyfs we expect to see in the meta and the amount of lingering souls we play (as an alternative answer to delvers, which are abundant globally i'd expect and less dependent on local meta).

I dont know about lands. I'll keep trying vault for a while. Lifegain is so good with Sylvan. And deathtouch is good with souls. Gavony T seems strong but to benefit from it you need to survive a few extra turns. Vault helps you make it through those turns, that's another reason I prefer trying it.

I did have problems getting veteran killed, so a phyrexian tower may be worth it when not playing cradle. Good with souls too.

I'm thinking of playing 3(+1) lingering souls and 2(-1) veteran explorer once my cradles arrive.

I did play against ANT today and lost 1-2. I tried the transformational sideboard and missing t1 interaction due to drawing a wasteland over the third sb thoughtseize may have cost me a game. So perhaps leave the 3 TS and swap something else next time.. Or skip it.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I needed a scrubland several times, changing a savannah.

[pfiremc13]

@Pfiremc:
I'll try to answer, but more playing is needed. I'd like to read about your testing too if you're doing some. :)

I have not gotten a chance to test yet, though I plan to.

The top is because it hurts very badly not getting some draw mechanism into play in the late game. And top can be shuffled back in easily when excessive as opposite to sylvan no 4. And is harder for opp to remove. Consider it a card selection insurance. It seems important in helping us compete with blue decks in terms of finding the right answer/threat at the right time. Actually thinking of it this may be the relevant swap for testing Courser I was looking for. He rids us of bad topdecks too, keeping lands off the top (and as a bonus puts them into play). With added lifegain.

Fair enough, though this is something that needs testing.

Sword of light and shadow has been really nice. Protection from swords and skull, offering life gain and tutorable recurring nightmare ... And boosting spirit tokens are all very relevant things.

Yeah, it seems really good.

Of course i have the ZP's covering the dirty jitte work on x/1's, without them the choice swings slightly in favor of jitte. When it comes to ZP I was thinking it may depend on the amount of goyfs we expect to see in the meta and the amount of lingering souls we play (as an alternative answer to delvers, which are abundant globally i'd expect and less dependent on local meta).

Makes sense.

I dont know about lands. I'll keep trying vault for a while. Lifegain is so good with Sylvan. And deathtouch is good with souls. Gavony T seems strong but to benefit from it you need to survive a few extra turns. Vault helps you make it through those turns, that's another reason I prefer trying it.

Fair enough, though I still like the sheer power of township. If you get 3+ creatures (which is not hard in this deck) and a township active it's difficult to lose, though it is win-more in some respects.

I did have problems getting veteran killed, so a phyrexian tower may be worth it when not playing cradle. Good with souls too.

I'm not sure about this with the reduced number of explorers and a utility land.

I did play against ANT today and lost 1-2. I tried the transformational sideboard and missing t1 interaction due to drawing a wasteland over the third sb thoughtseize may have cost me a game. So perhaps leave the 3 TS and swap something else next time.. Or skip it.

It is true that a transformational sideboard might hurt the amount of combo hate you can fit in your sideboard, but it might still be possible. This requires more testing.

For the record, I think the deck has a good combo matchup overall, despite the fact that it isn't great game 1. In games 2 and 3 the deck can bring in disruption and combined with the fast clock for nic fit that is probably enough. This also requires testing though.

[tomatojim]

Hey Sourcers!

After lurking TheSource for about a year, I've decided to join the party. I've been playing legacy for a year now and fell in love with Nic Fit over the last couple of months. On Saturday I played my first real tournament with it (6 rounds in Nuremberg). After long thoughts about wether I want to play a punishing list, or a GB list with only a small R-splash for SB cards I ended up with the following:

23 lands:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Treetop Village

24 spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

13 creatures:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Reclamation Sage


SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction


the list felt pretty OK throughout the event, I'm still not sure if I want Phyrexian Tower for the Prime Time toolbox as well, though it's another colorless source (in a way). Sage didn't do a lot, not sure about her either. Top is the nuts, I might go up to 4 copies. But now a short summary:

R1: (Ponder)Miracles 0-1-1

g1 he handles Thrun twice, Jace and Entreat evetually win the game, since I can't get JTMS off the board (Counterbalance).

g2 we durdle around again, Grip takes care of his Top, during the extraturns I go for the kill with Garruk's ulti (7 worms), but he has Terminus. Maybe I should've gone for that instead of Entreat with an earlier Slaughter Games.


R2: BUG Delver 2-1

g1 both decks work pretty well, which lets me come out on top

g2 I don't find my fourth land (despite having Top) and die.

g3 I win on my last extraturn with Thrun, after Pfiring his DRS. That was close.


R3: Red MUD 0-2

g1 I screw up hard, but I guess it didn't matter in the end. For those of you who didn't know, overlooking an active Welder can be pretty backbreaking

g2 I can't handle his Forgemaster into Sundering Titan into Blightsteel. Feels like a rough matchup, what are your thoughts about MUD?


R4: Die bUrg (4-color Delver) 1-1-1

g1 I get beaten down by a single (!) Delver, because I can't find a removal spell (Deed gets countered).

g2 I still don't find removals, DRS and Explorers are working on each others life totals until I can resolve a Pyroclasm through a Spell Snare. Liliana and Garruk win afterwards, but it takes too long to start g3.


R5: Junk (without SFM) 2-0

g1 I win with Prime Time including Kessig Wolf Run after lots and lots of trades.

g2 I eventually win with Fattie into Fattie into Fattie against his mass of Goyfs, after he extracted my Deeds.


R6: LED-Dredge 2-0

I win both games pretty much by naming LED with Therapy and Pfiring my Explorers to ramp and get rid of his bridges. The secound game was close though, Titan + Wolf Run trample over Elesh Norn for the win.


so I end up in 12th place (36 players) with a record of 3-2-1, which I guess is OK for the first time playing that deck, even if the matchups were not that bad overall. I still feel pretty uncomfortable with sideboarding (especially siding out) and need to play a bit faster.

A specific SB question: Does a Miracles pilot side out the Counterbalances against us, since we have a strange curve and decays? And hence should I side out some (or all) of my decays (at least against the 4-Ponder-list)? My opponent from R1 said he did not side them out.

Greetings!

[bryanzoll]

A specific SB question: Does a Miracles pilot side out the Counterbalances against us, since we have a strange curve and decays? And hence should I side out some (or all) of my decays (at least against the 4-Ponder-list)? My opponent from R1 said he did not side them out.

Greetings!

No they do not. Nic Fit decks while having higher CMC cards still have a high % of the deck that are CMC 1 and CMC 2. So they kept CB in, you keep AD in.

[tomatojim]

No they do not. Nic Fit decks while having higher CMC cards still have a high % of the deck that are CMC 1 and CMC 2. So they kept CB in, you keep AD in.

thanks for the fast response!

I guess that makes sense, especially considering that Pfire is actually good against them (and Decay gets rid of RiP as well).

[Arianrhod]

It's very pilot-dependent. Some will, some won't. There isn't really any way to know for sure. Decay is worth leaving in regardless because of random bullshit like Energy Field / Back to Basics (I know, I know, but I've had it boarded in vs me at times). It's also our primary way of solving Sensei's Top. Decaying Top in response to a fetch is very powerful. I wouldn't board any Decays out vs Miracles regardless of the Counterbalance situation, and in fact would board extra copies in if not maindecking them already.