Anyone have a straight esper list that is current?
Going to build stone blade as my secondary deck since I don't want to play miracles and have all the cards.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I have to admit that I don't think Esper blade lists are good at all right now and I'm a bit frustrated with this topic's obsession with them.
You don't want to talk about a blade control deck in the blade control forum?Originally Posted by h2o
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
No, I just want my fellow blade buddies to do well. Also there hasn't been much innovation in UWr lists.
Red vs black is usually a metagame call and right now I think the meta favors red because of some excellent cards in Pyroblast and Blood Moon.
This is what I've been jamming lately:
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
3 Dig Through Time
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Council's Judgment
2 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Containment Priest
I tried Ponder for a bit because the SCG Open T8 had them, but I still don't like them very much. I also tried going down to 2 Dig and didn't care for that either, the card is just too good and too important. I like the main deck Spell Snares and they're very useful right now. My meta has shifted away slightly from fair creature decks so the extra counterspells help.
Nahiri replaces Baneslayer in the sideboard because it is very good against Miracles and better in the mirror (though I have yet to play a mirror match with this deck in a tournament).
Still not sure on whether it's better to run 2 TNN and 2 Clique vs 3 TNN and 1 Clique, but I like running 10 creatures and 22 lands in the non-Ponder lists. Ponder lists tend to shave 2 lands, 1 creature, and 1 spell.
I play Ponder and they help me in mid-late game.
They can fix my manabase in the first turn and this is good.
I play only 2 DTT.
Your choise is good imho, but i have fear for DTT in the first turns are deadly card.
Anyway you have reason, DTT is too important.
Imho Spell Snare are an hard counter and I love it.
Snare are great because we don't control the opponent lands and Pierce in late game are deadly card.
But this is a meta-slot and if your meta are full of combo and/or planeswalker, Pierce is a good choise.
Nahiri is very good versus discard effect too.
Imho this is another meta choise.
Clique is very good vs combo, control and Liliana.
TNN is a tank who can stop the aggro.
PS: you have PM man :)
I plan on attending StarCity's 5k in Columbus this weekend (where I'm from!) and if it matches the 20k in Worcester than I would say that the R or the B splash is ill equipped for the current meta.... If Burn becomes that 4th top tier deck and price of progress is a thing again than the U/W version with more basics would for sure be the way to go!!
Only time will tell and I will give a report from the tournament on what I see there. I know in the local Columbus meta it is combo heavy and those players also have burn/dredge as back up decks.... So we'll see what the cat drags in this weekend!
I've never lost to Burn in Legacy but I also have probably never played against a good pilot with an optimal list. If you're expecting Dredge to be very popular don't play Stoneblade. But I can say that there was very little Dredge or Burn at SCG Cleveland so I wouldn't expect much this weekend.
I don't have much trouble with Dredge with 2 RIP and 2 Containment Priest and a bunch of cantrips to find them. Burn I try to get lifegain from Jitte and Batterskull on line ASAP, though it is a bit harder and will sometimes need to Swords my own dudes to buy a turn.
That is one sweet thing about the Ponder builds, much easier to find haymaker sideboard cards.
Also I can't imagine swordsing my own dudes against Dredge. Save it for the Ichorids!
Not against Dredge, but I've had to Swords them against Burn , just to try and stay above 3 life, till I can equip a Jitte or get a Batterskull down... or sometimes not, but desperate turns for desperate measures.
Burn is not that bad with the 3 color versions. Esper and Jeskai both can do well with it. Jeskai is probably at an advantage here for a few reasons:
- You don't depend on your splash color (red) as much (usually you're just running 2 or so bolts), so you can more easily fetch basics.
- You're not shocking yourself with Thoughtseizes.
- You can (in theory) actually copy Chain Lightning, if you are so inclined.
These are each marginal but, Burn is often one burn spell away from killing you before you can stabilize, so those marginal advantages really add up.
Your basic game plan is to get Batterskull online. This is especially so game 1, when they don't have any way to deal with it. If you can attack with a Batterskull you almost always win, barring an early Vortex, etc. Game 2 you have to be able to deal with Smash to Smithereens, so Batterskull is slower (you usually either want countermagic ready, or 3 mana to be able to bounce it, or you need to be desperate and make them have it [with experience you can usually tell if they have it, especially since Burn players are disproportionately less experienced and often telegraph it]).
Your secondary concern is dealing with Sulfuric Vortex. I always bring in enchantment hate (and leave in Judgment) due to Vortex (don't forget that Eidolon is an enchantment too). There are three ways to deal with it: counter it, remove it, or race it. The third one sounds silly, and it usually is, but it can happen if you get equipment online and start battering them while they whiff for a turn or two.
The problem with going all out on an early Batterskull for lifegain, in my experience, is that Burn almost always has plenty of ways to fry your Stoneforge before you can get Batterskull into play. With only two Spell Pierce to protect her, a card that is only good very early against burn, you have to be very early and lucky. Post board maybe you are right and it is my mistake for siding out Forces against them as I saw it as card disadvantage whereas 2 burn cards almost always equal at least 6 damage to you. I can see your point about an early Stoneforge to Batterskull heavily protected can be very very good. But it is a bit risky to me and I usually just try to get an early Jitte preferably on a TNN they can't target and try to control their board and gain plenty of life with Jitte counters. The problem with this line of play is that it is a couple turns slower sometimes then the get lucky to get an early Batterskull down, and that can be deadly against Burn.
That is a great point about Eidelon being an Enchantment and worth bringing Wear/Tear in for as well as a probable Sulfuric Vortex.
I have tried Nehiri a bit, and the problem is the matches she would be good in, other than Miracles, are matches that I often try to aggressively Blood Moon or Rest in Peace, both of which are problematic with her with double white mana requirements and a key ability that rescues equipment from the graveyard. Maybe she is still good as a backup to them. I have actually found that Keranos, God of Storms does a lot of work when I've had him in (and pitches to Force) , but I can't help but think he is overcosted by a mana, especially as it is very difficult, and win-more to have enough devotion to turn him into a creature. It has happened twice though, something like a Keranos, Jace, TNN , Clique .
I am still a bit unsure of the creature sweeping package. I've been indecisive and just have a Supreme Verdict main and one each of Pyroclasm and Sudden Demise to just roll the matchup dice as each one is stronger in certain matchups.
This is true, but in my experience, it doesn't matter as much as you might think. Game 1, burn is not usually playing as many Searing Blaze effects, so they often have to choose whether to spend a burn spell on your SFM or on you. This puts them on the horns of a dilemma: their best draws can still kill you before Batterskull is able to attack (especially if they can draw into a Vortex), but if they spend a burn spell on the SFM, they reduce their chances of doing this significantly. This gives you a chance to actually hardcast the Batterskull, or draw into a 2nd SFM, which just recreates the same dilemma.
If you have protection in hand for your SFM, then yeah, of course you want wait a turn or two before jamming her so you can keep counter magic up.
Post-board, they'll rarely spend a burn spell on SFM that they could point at you (in practice this is usually true pre-board too). This is because they're bringing in Searing Blaze and Smash to Smithereens, so they either have a virtual 2-for-1 (Blaze) or they think they can deal with your equipment. Thus, I usually try to hold back my equipment until I know I can protect it or bounce it. In my experience, this is more effective than you might think, especially as long as your SFM survives, because if they're holding a Smash they have to leave up 2 mana to deal with your Batterskull in case you vial it in at their EOT. This buys you some time as they can't be as mana efficient as they want, and they're holding an effectively dead card in hand. Once you can protect the skull, your chances of blowing them out (by countering their Smash, for example) go up considerably. Of course, they'll try to unload their burn at the end of your turn, but in a matchup where they're often 1 burn spell away from killing you, that dead card in hand can be a deciding factor; and you can usually tell if that's what they're holding.
Force is not great for exactly the reason you mention, but sometimes you need it just so you can be proactive and tap out while still holding up a Force to stop the big threats (usually that's Price of Progress, Fireblast, Sulfuric Vortex, Smash to Smithereens), etc. You never force a bolt unless it's going to kill you, or it lets you swing for lifegain. Usually you're pitching a card of marginal utility anyway. The card disadvantage aspect isn't quite as bad when you realize that their goal is to kill you with cards left in your hand.Post board maybe you are right and it is my mistake for siding out Forces against them as I saw it as card disadvantage whereas 2 burn cards almost always equal at least 6 damage to you.
If I have a TNN in hand, then yeah I will always fetch Jitte with a SFM as soon as possible, at least for Game 1, when I know they have no Smashes. If you're on curve, you can T2 SFM, fetch Jitte, T3 play TNN, T4 vial/cast Jitte, equip, attack, and that's usually that. That's as fast and usually more effective than Batterskull. If I don't have TNN, I won't do that because they can still kill literally anything else (other than a Germ token) I might like to equip the Jitte to, so I might as well have a Batterskull.I can see your point about an early Stoneforge to Batterskull heavily protected can be very very good. But it is a bit risky to me and I usually just try to get an early Jitte preferably on a TNN they can't target and try to control their board and gain plenty of life with Jitte counters.
Post-board it's a closer call because of Smash. You have to consider if you can protect your equipment or not. If you can't protect it, then you're not likely to want to run it out onto the field. By the time you get a Jitte out and active, it may be equivalent to having fetched a Batterskull. Since Batterskull comes with some built-in protection (meaning I can spend my countermagic on other things, if I'm so inclined), I often prefer that option.
Personally, I haven't had great luck with Blood Moon in the deck, aside from blowing out a Reanimator deck once. It may just be the way I'm playing it. I'm not convinced that the payoff is worth the cost. Only a subset of decks are really weak to Blood Moon, and since I can't jam it T1 or T2 like some other decks can, there is a greater chance they'll just decay it. Lands in particular plays Mox Diamond and Krosan Grip (or other such removal), so they can work around it too. Rest in Peace is probably more effective against Lands anyway, since you can time it so the trigger hurts them even if they can remove the enchantment. Either way it's a bad matchup, I'm not sure Blood Moon improves it a whole lot. It can hose Shardless BUG, sure, but it could also keep you from removing the threats they already have. I also don't currently play Rest in Peace (I generally play 2 Surgicals and 2 Containment Priests), as I just haven't fit it into my SB, but I think it's more reasonable, and I might try one in place of a Priest. I just hate the idea of nerfing my favorite creature (Snapcaster Mage).I have tried Nehiri a bit, and the problem is the matches she would be good in, other than Miracles, are matches that I often try to aggressively Blood Moon or Rest in Peace, both of which are problematic with her with double white mana requirements and a key ability that rescues equipment from the graveyard.
As for Nahiri, I tried her a bit online, not enough to really form a conclusion. As much as I'd love for her to work, my gut still tells me that Elspeth is a better option against just about every deck you would want Nahiri against.
Deathblade list in the top 8 of Columbus Legacy IQ http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=85801
Guess it's still got some game. Never seen the Sylvan Library in the board before but that's cute.
Nahiri > Elspeth if your equipment might end up in the yard somehow (against the mirror, Deathblade, Shardless, sometimes it comes up against Miracles). I've never ulted her but her ult is definitely better than Elspeth's.
I still think Blood Moon is amazing, but I know a lot of players who play Lands, greedy Delver builds, Jund, and MUD. It's an auto-win against BUG Delver/4C Delver/UWR Delver/Jund unless they have a clock on board. Lands can Gamble for K-Grip so you have to put a clock on them at some point. Blood Moon isn't great against MUD and in my 2 Council's Judgment builds I don't even bring it in at all against them, but sometimes it gets there.
Unfortunately MUD is one of the worst matchup.
I don't know why MUD is not in the DTB.
I play vs MUD from one entire year with a very good player of this archetype in my meta and, with Ugin now, is too strong for all the Jeskai decks: miracle, blade and patriot.
With my Blade deck i side in Blood Moon x2, Wear Tear x2 and Engineered Explosives x2, siding out ponders, jitte and one Mystic for decrease the CC1 curve (Chalice).
Blood Moon in this matchup, work at 50% because he have Metalworker and Monolith.
Bring the Plowshares and the Lightning Bolt for this creature who, alone, can put into play Ugin --> every deck lose
Any player want to discuss about the MUD matchup?
I don't think it's that cut and dry. Bringing back a Batterskull is great, don't get me wrong, but Elspeth's 2nd ability is relevant not only in more situations (such as when you don't have an equipment in the yard), but also often in the same situation, especially if you have a creature already on the field who can attack. Elspeth + TNN can close a game out pretty quickly. You can also use Academy Ruins to recycle equipment, albeit not as nicely as Nahiri.
Neither of these planeswalkers generally get to ultimate, so this difference is pretty academic.I've never ulted her but her ult is definitely better than Elspeth's.
MUD is pretty inconsistent from what I've seen, with starts that range from unbeatable to ridiculously bad. They're relatively weak to Wasteland (obv not from this deck, but in the meta at large) and removal. Stop chalice, kill their Metalworker and keep them from filling the board with Lodestone Golem and they generally don't have a lot else going on.
With sideboarding we are more strong imho.
Explosives help us vs Chalice and wear tear are very good with is CC2.
Anyway imho if we resolve a very fast Clique or Nemesis is good stuff.
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