If they do not overextend into deed than the liliana/decay/path/swords/pulse spot removal becomes even better. Not only is it a 1 for 1 but it buys additional draw steps. If they choose to hold creatures doesnt that end up making our discard stay relevant longer than it normally would?
This deck puts 6+ land into play routinely. I am more than happy to pay extra on my removal spells for the "chance" at a 2 for 1. The fact that it cleans up dnt's vials/equips, pyro and the tokens, mentor and the tokens, CB and angels, tnn and the sac fodder, goose and all for an extra 2-3 mana is totally fine. Without running tons of CA spells this deck cannot 1 for 1 decks for the win. We will draw too many land, too many weak creatures, and too much discard that drawing off the top will win the game.
1 for 1's are much more efficient you are right. That matters more when you have a clock in play.
My comment is guided by the inclusion of Sylvan Library and Painful truths which synergize better with the build I have proposed than deed.Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I have also learnt that putting all your eggs in the same basket is dangerous. I have lost games against D&T where a protected (by MoR) revoker goes a very long way against your deed. The same can be told about miracle and their fucking soft lock.
Not to mention the many games I have lost to poison or elves because deed is not fast enough.
The list can go on. Sure deed is powerful but I am willing to trade it for faster answers and raw replenish options.
Trading blow for blow in a more proactive way until one of our few bombs break through and leave your opponent cold dead to it.
I do not clame this is THE route to take with Nic Fit but, right now this is the one I am willing to take, at least with a Junk style Fit where you have just access to both best spot removals ever and one of the best creature in its shell, all-star when equipped.
Truths will be gold, here. And in gold, I trust (pun intended without offense)
This is the list i want to bring this saturday at the big event in Italy:
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Forest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thragtusk
1 Yasova Dragonclaw
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Minister of Pain
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Grave Titan
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Birthing Pod
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 Primal Order
SB: 1 Zur's Weirding
I still have many doubts after the banlist:
-Manabase, first of all. I see many of yours are playing less than 7 dorks while i was thinking about adding 4° drs
-Some 1x: Grave titan (it's the best closer?), Sower, Minister (sideboard?), new Liliana (seems very nice in a pod build).
-Sideboard: Zur's is one of my favorite cards and a gg against miracle and combo 99/100 times. Still don't know if the third Deed could be replaced by Engineered Plague, Dread of Night, Night of Souls' Betrayal or Minister itself.
Primal Order is a nuke against lands mu while it's still very good against control and rogue deck like Mud and so on. Kill pw and impose a clock. The alternative is Back to Basics (loam/lands Mu scares me very much)
Every suggestion is welcomed ^^
The Meadery wasn't broadcasting last night. How did you do?
Didnt end up doing it. Mead hall has been occasionally not firing. They used to get 30 on the regular for legacy and then they changed payouts and barely got 10. They have since went back to cash payout of up to $80 for a 4-0 night so I imagine people will start to filter back in. Lately it has been around 12-16ish.
I played a pretty janky Bug pile to last weeks and it was nice to actually have a deck with all good cards in it again. The more you play nic fit the more you talk yourself into cards you really shouldnt just because you can cast them.
@memories- I played Liliana in 1 match so far. I had her in the board for a couple weeks and never ended up bringing her in often but I did play her in a burn match and she was fantastic. I imagine you can get more value from her than I could. the zombie starts the pod chain and bringing strix and witness back seems like you can extract decent value from her.
I am not sure in pod builds the exact ratios you need but the minister and yasova both seem pretty low power. I dont think I would run them, at least not main but if they are needed for the chains i would imagine they are passable.
I like grave titan in the abstract because of how fast it closes games. I have gone back and forth with that card but sometimes the easiest path to victory was turbo titan. granted this was easier when we had 3X DTT to find the one of titan. If you have trouble with lands the best way to win fast is through titan. Consecrated could be the other option but without things like fow to draw to in the main it has less appeal. One note on that is if you pair it with weirding be a powerful way to get ahead.
Back to basics is not good for us. I ran a few in the side before but its scorched earth at its finest. pod might operate off basics better than the Bug control version I was on but I was actually pretty worried because I was forced to fetch duals early pretty often with the color requirements. I wouldnt run B2B or Primal order honestly. The primal order will not win you the match against lands (they will destroy it or race the damage) so its not worth running in that slot.
Dont run a 3rd deed in the board. Ralf was right about match ups like dnt that can go mom -> revoker deed. I run 2 main and have 1 deluge in the board. Deluge is 3rd sweeper (like deed) but you will "almost" always be boarding the additional deed in against small creature decks anyway so the deluge being only a creature sweeper is fine and it gives you an out to deed being shut off.
The Fow count also looks extremely low. I am not sure if we can add anything in the main/SB to add to that. The worst feeling will be for you to board force in and get it in your hand and not have a card to pitch in the first few turns.
I wonder what's up with the cutting of Veteran Explorers. I thought it was a big "nono" considering too that nic fit is basically explorer + cabal. That said I would like to try a 3 Veteran Explorer + 3 Deathrite Shaman Version with 4 GSZ just for the possibility of playing without any veteran explorer (at least early) against decks like miracles and dnt.
Anybody got any experience with cutting down explorers?
Also: why reanimator fit? i don't really see the point
my current list, if anybody wants to give input (I'm crazy happy with it)
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/funky-rhino/
I have cut down to 1 explorer for well over a year now. I dropped them down around the same time I ditched Deed for Stoneforge. Additionally, Deathrite is leagues ahead of Vet with regards to, well, everything really. Nic Fit decks that rely on a Vet trigger to function properly are doomed to consistently lose to frequent inconsistencies. Since you don't want to draw Vet without Therapy, don't need the trigger to function, can't really abuse multiple instances, have 4 GSZ for availability, and should care for better cards, you don't need multiple Vets...
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I have been running 4 vets in Bug and even with 4 Bs, 2-3 Jaces, and snap casters and Lilianas to trade Vets for other cards I have run into the same issue as Qweerios. I am considering running 3 Vets. The downside to that for most bug lists is that they do not play GSZ.
The long running pressure that Veteran explorer decks run into is the idea we function better with more land/we can function at all with vet triggers. If we build a deck to maximize that it will end up being inconsistent when we do not have vet. If you lower your curve to hedge your bets on it then the deck ceases to really be much better than a standard rock deck with DRS instead. GSZ does allow a lot of the flexibility in this as adding a few large bombs in green gives you the powerful late game.
Personally, the reason for me being down on the deck archetype as a whole right now is its hard for me to think what the deck does is worth cost. I can play a birthing pod and 3 turns down the line end up with a redcap? sure there is some value there but so is casting Jace, or any number of better cards. This deck was a beating in a meta where deed maindeck was powerful. Now people are cutting deed. If we are going to play bad cards (like veteran explorer) we need to really justify the power that it lends itself to. I do like that most junk lists are now cutting vets and suntitans and running better cards so I am excited to see where that leads even though I doubt I will ever attempt to cast a siege rhino.
Proxy a list and try one.
Don't be ashamed of casting a Rhino.
First, I thought it was the beast which could push back Junk into light. I was disappointed. Goyfs were subsequently larger.
I put him aside for a while, until I started using equipments.
I wouldn't scorn Rock. We have a lot to learn from their abzan's perspective.
Also I wouldn't compare Abzan Fit with Sultai Fit.
The two can play deed but I truly think Sultai is better "fitted" to use it. Hence, I've started to think "different" while playing Junk Fit.
Even if, lately, a lot of our discussions have turned around Junk Fit, I'm still devoted to Nic Fit in general. The last tournament I played with BUG Fit (featuring some reanimation spells) but BUG nonetheless.
I'm still searching how to adapt my BUG Fit control since DTT's departure as I am also trying to improve the creature's pack we have access in the BUG Rea Fit. Time / ideas will tell.
Take a deep breath and take a step outside your comfort zone: try playing Junk for a week or two.
I would be more than happy to trade some new ideas.
Nic Fit has "lost" a strong contender namely "Omni" and I am almost happy to play again Sneak in a very future; just to tell you how badly I was sick of this deck...
Cheer up !
I tried out Junk Fit with siege rhino and equipments and din't really like it very much. It's gives you nice board control and utility but in the end i was feeling like it didn't really belong in the deck. Removing the sfm package and adding recurring nightmare and restoration to the deck felt much more natural. Siege Rhino is a crazy threat with the 4/5 body and trample (!) and makes it at least comparable to goyfs if not better under certain circumstance. It's decay- and deedproof (mostly at least). The triggered ability alone can win games with angels, recurring nightmares and (maybe) eternal witnesses. The sfm package is nice and all but in the end you could also just play maverick or d&t.
I feel like people lately want to make nic fit sth what it just isn't.
I feel like junk fit with rhinos, nightmares and deeds takes into considering most aspects of nic fit and encourages you to play it like the ramp deck it is. Against decks like d&t or miracles you can always play around explorers and play the deck more control focused until you board.
I still want to try out bug pod fit because i really love the idea of playing pod in legacy (which most veterans seem to frown on) and the broad spectrum of plays possible and just straight gb fit.
I'm still relatively new to magic and nic fit maybe my opinion will be completely different in half a year or sth.
@Dadadot, unfortunately one mana 5/5 is the new two mana 4/5, and deeding for 7 isn't so practical.
With dig gone gurmag might disappear, but I really doubt it.
I first started testing with SFM when Khans was first released, the idea behind it was that SFM is like a GSun in its cost flexibility and Swiss Army knife effect. It can give you removal, life gain, a threat, make your creatures the biggest kids on the block or give your late game small creatures a purpose.
It's a powerful threat at 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7 mana! It gives the deck a threat at 2 mana, it soaks up their removal spells, gives you card advantage and gives you another creature you don't mind saccing to therapy.
In my eyes it was ideal. The only issue being it takes up between 5-7 slots depending on how far you want to go, and made deed less viable. Deed was less viable because of gurmag anyway, and getting rid of it allowed you to add sylvan library instead of top.
I haven't looked back since ;)
Hello everybody
Yesterday i've partecipated at OvinoX, 335p i think, nine rounds, with this list:
With the following list
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Eternal Witness
4 Brainstorm
3 Birthing Pod
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Thragtusk
1 Yasova Dragonclaw
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sylvan Library
1 Titania
1 Sower of temptation
1 Redcap
3 Ponder
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zur's Weirding
2 Primal Order that i haven't find in the place, so i've chosen 1 Memoricide and 1 Engineered Plague
Close with 5-2-2 and a lot of regrets.
Mud 2-0
Canadian 2-0
Burn 1-2 (Sadly, g1 he has won with exact damages and mana with Barbarian ring...)
Shardless 1-1 (last additional turn, lot of things in game and i've to think a lot with Yasova and 2 drs -he had 2 drs too-, i tried a trick to win (mislead his drs acting as i don't remember he had a decay on hand) and i succeeded: then i've said, enter in combact and i'm gonna think about Yasova target. Judge told me "you can't think, if you'have entered in the combact phase you have to have yet decided the target. So i had to rush and i failed to win.
Aggro Loam 2-0
Miracle 2-0
BUG delver 1-2 Very unlucky, also because there aren't other ways to lose this MU. Very very sad, he reached nine for rating.
Miracle 2-0
Miracle 1-1 (Last turn, slow play, slow minds, our fault to not concede).
I'm very happy about 3 ponder and the list in general. Sower is huge in this meta, while i haven't liked Maw to much: evoke is the only thing that prevent me to remove him.
I wanna try Clever Impersonator or something against PW. I also wanna 3 Primal Order in the sideboard, i've really missed them.
I find it funny that noone in this thread thinks of the "We've got so much mana, yet we do so little with it" problem as a fine reason to run some more mana intensive stuff.
Like, dare I say, the GSZ/Fierce Empath + assorted good stuff/Diabolic Intent setup. Does great things for consistency, allows you to run and tutor non-green bombs and works wonderfully with silver bullets from the SB.
This is what I'm currently running:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Diabolic Intent
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
4 Summoner’s Egg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard
1 Blazing Archon
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Rest in Peace
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Duress
The most important part here are the Diabolic Intents and GSZ's. They allow for so much consistency (for instance, I usually cast between 3 and 4 Path to Exile per game on average). With this build you usually either grind your opponent out until you can go for a "combo turn" where you resolve and sacrifice an Egg to cheat in a fattie, or go so long that you can actually hardcast a fattie (most often Elesh Norn, but I've pretty much hardcast everything except for Emrakul by now). Basically, the game typically boils down to "kill stuff, resolve Tasigur, kill more stuff (in the meantime, your "combo" assembles naturally or via tutors), resolve an Egg or a fattie, turn the game around and win". You do have to treat everything like it's made of glass, though. Keep thinking "does my opponent have an answer for this? What do I have to overcome to safely resolve this?". Since you'll be so balls deep into everything you cast, one mistake can be your last (certainly has been for me. Going for Emrakul over Elesh Norn only to die on the backswing, forgetting my opponent has a StP in hand, that kind of stuff). Karador is a card you want to hold onto for as long as you can, resolving that bastard in the late game lets you overcome your opponent in just a couple of turns. When combined with Eternal Witness, it's just the nuts.
That being said, every now and again you'll have the godhand and the right MU to play it against, allowing you to drop Emrakul/whatever on turn 2, protected by a Cabal Therapy. I've only done it a couple of times, but it's just so incredibly funny when it happens.
There are reasons my lists tend to be more bomb-heavy than most peoples' in here.
It's been a while since i've been here and played a proper tournament, however i decided to get my deck up to date again. I've been playing BUG mostly (no pod), but i'm not sure what to make of it atm. Are the Pod lists performing best right now? Seem to see quite some of those flying around the thread.
I don't think many play the Pod variant. I had gotten off of the idea due to Dig Through Time but with that banned I'm probably going back to Pod, the only issue is that it often feels so slow to win games as it sits there and tries to grind out value.
I put together punishing jund fit on mtgo and I have been pretty happy.
I don't understand why everyone is staying away from it but I find it to be exceptionally strong.
I played against a shard less player and ran him over like a squirrel in the street.
It is my belief that junk players want their rhino and sfm but big players want their blue. This isn't a blue deck.
This deck is vet, green sun, therapy and the pilot against the world.
#jundtillidie
Because BGR doesn't have hatebears or counter, and you can't win against combo only with discards and Slaughter Games mostly
Alright, good luck Ricardio
Well... This deck is mostly a platform to build upon, so it's more like "This platform + whatever tickles your fancy and the pilot against the world.". Heck, I've even had a number of decent finishes in the DTT era with that Eggs list. That's what I like about this deck.
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