[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Plm]

@ uncletiggy

Love your good stuff list (because mine is similar ).

Just a few questions : why no meren ? (she really is nuts) and no love for courser ? (this one is debatable but meren is sooo good)

I like top + truth, both serves different needs.

Good luck Saturday and tell us how it went

[Echelon]

@uncletiggy: I'd take out 2 (redundant) duals for 2 more fetchlands. That'd bring the initial mana count for each colour up to the magical 14. Colour screw sucks.

Otherwise, nice list. Good luck!

[Tom4ik]

The new tutor is not good. At 2 mana it may have been playable in a 4 color walker list but 3 mana is unplayable considering walkers are already overcosted for the first effect or 2. None of the white walkers are good in the deck because they are neither board control nor really CA walkers but combat walkers which work better with a deck that puts creatures into play. Fow is very important to that deck as well as it allows you to tap out for a walker and still protect it.

[Bobmans]

Hmmmmm, what do we think about this:

[pettdan]

Wow, very interesting. Here are my unstructured thoughts..

It seems to have great digging potential (in a creature based control deck), but may be hard to motivate over a top. But even with top it's good for clearing the top cards when stuck. If top was banned I guess this may become a part of the group of cards replacing it. With top around maybe 1 or 2 in a list with a few planeswalkers.

Either way, it lets you dig for land (early game relevance), creatures (offensive capabilities, and defensive in the shape of hatebears from the sb) and most notably it does not allow you to dig for removal which you are often looking for in nic fit, encouraging playing planeswalkers for removal (liiana, vraska, ob nixilis and jace) or creatures with cip removal effects (Shriekmaw and Reclamation Sage).

[Edit: on a more basic level, this card shines in the opening hand when you are land light, allowing you to mulligan less. So with that settled, the question is how to make it a good late game card.]

Maybe this or similar could be a good package: 3 tops, 2 Oath of Nissa, 2 Shriekmaw, 1 Meren, 1 Liliana, 1 Vraska/Ob Nixilis.

I'm not sure how to take advantage of an enchantment in play. Reprisal is not good enough. [edit: Once in the graveyard it does offer a good digging option with Eternal witness, one that can't be exiled by Deathrite in response.]

The mana related effect seems rather periferal. I can se myself brewing with 2-3 Glittering Wish and 2-4 Oath of Nissa, also playing 2-4 Deathrites and using a sideboard of a few silver bullet planeswalkers. There hardly are any though so that'll be hard. I like Dack Fayden vs equipment and MUD. [edit: as mentioned in the rock thread, it does make Liliana more easily castable.]

Pardon all the edits, no matter how many times I revise a text I'll still be finding new angles..

[Echelon]

It'd probably compete with the Painful Truths slots. So it's either G: Scry 3 (let's go with the worst case scenario) or 2B: Lose 3 life and draw 3.

When drawing only 1 useful card with Truths, that new card is better. When drawing more gas, Truths has the bigger impact and would therefor be better. I don't like that it doesn't let you keep instants or sorceries. Sometimes one needs a GSZ/spot removal/Deed more than that DRS/Rhino/land you run into. It'd suck incredibly hard if that new card forces you to put away that PtE you needed and had on the top of your library and forces you to take that basic Plains that was just under it.

I'm not sure. I'll have to ponder on that one.

On a sidenote: it does make Garruk, Primal Hunter reliably castable.

[maharis]

GPH was the first card I thought of too.

I think if you load your deck up with spell effects on creatures like shriekmaw or QPM and cut cards that whiff you could be ok. The problem is whiffing on therapy/decay/deed/GSZ which are core cards so you have to replace those. Of course it does a reasonable GSZ impression, esp. if you're already not playing dryad arbor since you never accelerate t1 with GSZ anyway.

You can pack extra sac effects like rusalka or viscera seer or nezumi bone reader that you can grab off it to make up for therapy whiffs.

Interesting card but not sure our deck is creature dense enough to make it work.

[Arianrhod]

I don't think that OoN is worth considering too heavily at this point in time. If Top gets banned at any point, it's immediately worth considering -- unfortunately, I expect the card to be a standard all-star, so acquiring a set of foils to sit on is probably going to be more irritating than it's worth. If the card is undervalued at any point, though, it's probably worth it for a "just in case" scenario.

I will note that OoN plays awfully nicely with Sun Titan.

[Brael]

Hmmmmm, what do we think about this:

Doesn't seem that great unless you're constantly replaying it.

Here's the number of hits you need for various success rates:
95% - 38 hits
90% - 32 hits
85% - 28 hits
80% - 25 hits
75% - 22 hits
70% - 20 hits
65% - 18 hits
60% - 16 hits
55% - 14 hits
50% - 12 hits

This is assuming a 60 card deck though, realistically you're going to have a 53 card deck with atleast -1 land in it, but this should be a good enough guide. With 22 lands and 16+ creatures I think we're looking at a 95%+ hit rate. That said, it still doesn't seem worth it, I think in most cases I would rather Top than cast this... maybe if there were some difficult to cast planeswalkers. In theory you could do something like play JTMS alongside Siege Rhino with Oath being the only way to cast Jace.

[uncletiggy]

Boo 4-2 for 10th place out of 47.

Bug turbo depths 0-2
Bw painter 2-0
Elves 1-2
Maverick 2-0
No show 2-0t
Lands 2-0

Vs Turbo depths got nutted game one punted and game two by boarding out witness. I Could have brought back a path to keep playing but died on a zenith for 3 and a fail to find :'(

Elves was the worst game one keep all day, didnt cast a spell went straight to game two showing mardu colors... ouch. Game two e. Plague into s games for hoof was gg. Hardcasted hoof in game three off the top for exactsies was sad.


Turths was the truth.

I Didnt need the nightmare, I was able to navigate chasm with ease without it.

I Never once encountered a situation where i wanted meren over tusk. The tusk did work surviving marit lage swings and I ate a couple today.

The Deck felt the great, the board felt fine, i didn't see the matches I expected to but it was flexible enough to give some play.


Take aways on the weekend. If you expect more sneak/reanimator/lands -1 decay +1 path if you expect more miracles/shardless 4 decays. Take it or leave it everyones meta is different. Confirmend on the day 3 painter 3 miracles 3 shardless 3 burn 3 elves 2 lands 2 storm, 2 esper, goblins, maverick, dnt, sneak/show, rug, grixis, infect.

Props to echelon I cut one each extraneous dual to go 4/4 on the fetches. I mulled one game to having both towers and only both towers For mana reasons all weekend. I kept six or better all day except vs elves in game two and it went extremely well.

Tldr: 4 times today I wanted a pro black flying green creature to zenith for where x <5. Just don't even say it...fml

[Echelon]

Props to echelon I cut one each extraneous dual to go 4/4 on the fetches. I mulled one game to having both towers and only both towers For mana reasons all weekend. I kept six or better all day except vs elves in game two and it went extremely well.

I'm glad to have been of help. I still have to get a hold of a second Phyrexian Tower to complete my ubermanabase.

With that second Tower I'd be on this puppy (22 total, though only 21 really count as lands):
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

14 initial sources for each colour, dual Phyrexian Tower and a Dryad Arbor as multitool (seriously, from GSZ for X=0 for some extra speed to fetch -> chump/dodge a Lilliana -2 to Diabolic Intent-fodder to fog-a-Goyf with Meren/Karador, this little bugger does so much work). For now I'm on +1 Forest, -1 Phyrexian Tower, which also runs like a dream.

On a somewhat related note, running so many shuffling effects (10 fetch, 4 Vet Ex, 4 GSZ, 2 Diabolic Intent, 1 Fierce Empath) in my build has been a real boon for Courser of Kruphix, which I love to GSZ for.

Edit: I'm thinking about another experiment. Rather than running 3 DRS, I'd want to run 3 Exploration. It's a card I've always loved, enables some explosive starts and turns Courser into a real CA engine.

The list would look as follows:
Main (60):
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Fierce Empath
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Exploration

4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Painful Truths

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

SB (15):
3 Duress
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace


Might be too cute though. DRS can seriously fuck with an opponents' game, which is always fun.

[sdematt]

Boo 4-2 for 10th place out of 47.

Bug turbo depths 0-2
Bw painter 2-0
Elves 1-2
Maverick 2-0
No show 2-0t
Lands 2-0

Vs Turbo depths got nutted game one punted and game two by boarding out witness. I Could have brought back a path to keep playing but died on a zenith for 3 and a fail to find :'(

Elves was the worst game one keep all day, didnt cast a spell went straight to game two showing mardu colors... ouch. Game two e. Plague into s games for hoof was gg. Hardcasted hoof in game three off the top for exactsies was sad.


Turths was the truth.

I Didnt need the nightmare, I was able to navigate chasm with ease without it.

I Never once encountered a situation where i wanted meren over tusk. The tusk did work surviving marit lage swings and I ate a couple today.

The Deck felt the great, the board felt fine, i didn't see the matches I expected to but it was flexible enough to give some play.


Take aways on the weekend. If you expect more sneak/reanimator/lands -1 decay +1 path if you expect more miracles/shardless 4 decays. Take it or leave it everyones meta is different. Confirmend on the day 3 painter 3 miracles 3 shardless 3 burn 3 elves 2 lands 2 storm, 2 esper, goblins, maverick, dnt, sneak/show, rug, grixis, infect.

Props to echelon I cut one each extraneous dual to go 4/4 on the fetches. I mulled one game to having both towers and only both towers For mana reasons all weekend. I kept six or better all day except vs elves in game two and it went extremely well.

Tldr: 4 times today I wanted a pro black flying green creature to zenith for where x <5. Just don't even say it...fml

Mystic Enforcer. I want to play that guy so badly.

So Baneslayer is the nut, but not being able to tutor her is kind of shitty. More testing to follow. Put Nightmare back in and with no Intent, was also kind of clunky. Still working out the kinks again.

[Ganfar]

This is the deck I came 2rd place with:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19143&iddeck=145524

I was lucky to get to top8, only one of the four 3-2 could be in the top 8.

The Strom player I met first in top8 lose to himself and I won agnaist burn.

The meta was half fair decks what was not go to combo and then rest was combo.

I have realied that I can't deal with big guys like Griselbrand and Emmakrull. Also no good grind card to combo.

So I want two Liliana int he deck:

+2 Liliana of the Veil
-1 E. Witness
-1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

Ob was nice but was just a better but costly then Liliana. He play the same role was Liliana so he is out.

I have two Witness so skip one is no big deal.

I also take out Broodmate Dragon for a Strombreat Dragon to lower the curve and test him out. Now that I lower the overall cost the deck so discarding lands for Lialan don't feel so bad.

I report what I think about the changes efter wensday.

[Gazoline]

what do you guys think about this one? i kinda like it! :D something with dryad arbor with a equipment?



Embodiment of Insight
Creature - Elemental (U)
Vigilance
Land creatures you control have Vigilance.
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have target land you control become a 3/3 Elemental creature with haste until end of turn. It's still a land.
4/4

[Bobmans]

This is the deck I came 2rd place with:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19143&iddeck=145524

I was lucky to get to top8, only one of the four 3-2 could be in the top 8.

The Strom player I met first in top8 lose to himself and I won agnaist burn.

The meta was half fair decks what was not go to combo and then rest was combo.

I have realied that I can't deal with big guys like Griselbrand and Emmakrull. Also no good grind card to combo.

So I want two Liliana int he deck:

+2 Liliana of the Veil
-1 E. Witness
-1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

Ob was nice but was just a better but costly then Liliana. He play the same role was Liliana so he is out.

I have two Witness so skip one is no big deal.

I also take out Broodmate Dragon for a Strombreat Dragon to lower the curve and test him out. Now that I lower the overall cost the deck so discarding lands for Lialan don't feel so bad.

I report what I think about the changes efter wensday.

Gratz on the result. Very nice to see the deck pop up. Noticed it the other day and figured it was yours with the Ob.

Good luck with the change. I think it is a good call. Liliana is a must since you have many creatures out of reach with PFire and Deed/Decay alone.
Like said before, if you feel you want more Liliana, going to 61 by adding 3rd Liliy works perfectly fine with the deck.

And how was the singleton Trinisphere?

On another note, Matt. Marit Lage vs NicFit. The creature sucks balls. I hate it every time i see it. Baneslayer probably the best option unless you want Birds of Paradise with a Mask of Law and Grace (prevents dying from PFire to). Or BoP with an active Meren. Although Baneslayer is still awesome to have.

[Warden]

...
Embodiment of Insight
Creature - Elemental (U)
Vigilance
Land creatures you control have Vigilance.
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have target land you control become a 3/3 Elemental creature with haste until end of turn. It's still a land.
4/4

That's not really what I'm looking for in Nic Fit. Maybe others disagree? Thragtusk and Sigarda are textbook 5 drops to run. Baneslayer arguable in that mix (usually a SB choice).

Gratz on the result. Very nice to see the deck pop up. Noticed it the other day and figured it was yours with the Ob.

Good luck with the change. I think it is a good call. Liliana is a must since you have many creatures out of reach with PFire and Deed/Decay alone.
Like said before, if you feel you want more Liliana, going to 61 by adding 3rd Liliy works perfectly fine with the deck.

And how was the singleton Trinisphere?

On another note, Matt. Marit Lage vs NicFit. The creature sucks balls. I hate it every time i see it. Baneslayer probably the best option unless you want Birds of Paradise with a Mask of Law and Grace (prevents dying from PFire to). Or BoP with an active Meren. Although Baneslayer is still awesome to have.

@Ganfar:
Throw another congrats into the ring. That's a really cool list. I am also curious about Trinisphere. Is it doing enough against Combo (does it win/can you survive to play it)?

@Marit Lage: S.Games, STP, Path, Vindicate (the land), Wasteland (the land), P.Needle, and Revoker.

[uncletiggy]

@ matt - you said it. two more times and he'll appear and take us back into a world before goyf. When I cut the intent the nightmare and karkas also just became loose ends that folded into more deeds amd decays.

@ warden- the quick marit lage is tough to deal with Im thinking ensnaring bridge would actually be good in a lot of tough matches like mud, lands varients, sneak and show, reanimator, and turbo eldrazi.

[Arianrhod]

Karakas is the best answer to Merit Lage (with Needle being your best sideboard option), or, the REAL best answer: dodge Lands. The matchup is rough regardless of Merit Lage, and the fast 20/20 hands are basically unbeatable by us. Accept that you can't beat anything if you try to beat anything, and move on with your life. See also: my philosophy regarding reanimator.

Arbitrary 4g elemental maker dude isn't playable. We've started cutting Thragtusk in some color combinations / lists, and that guy is no Thragtusk.

I experimented with Mystic Enforcer a couple years ago, and it was decent but generally unexciting. I think that flip-Nissa fills the same type of role (the Green Sunnable lategame monster that's decent early) now, but better.

Still tuning and tinkering with "ultimate" fit, planning on jamming it at Mythic this weekend. I'll try to post an updated list before I pack up Friday night. The idea may still end up being flawed, but I want to at least try it and see what happens on the off chance that it's amazing.

[Echelon]

The elemental is too cute. It does too little when compared to the things it has to compete with (Siege Rhino, Sigarda, Thragtusk).

Concerning Merit Lage: Yeah, well, 4 PtE. That's all I'm going to say. Lol.

@Warden: Since when does Nic Fit run Wasteland..?

[Bobmans]

Karakas is the best answer to Merit Lage (with Needle being your best sideboard option)

Karakas is shit vs RG lands MU. They will get rid of it before it is relevant, even if you have a way if finding it asap.
I overlooked the obvious, but Echelon is right. 4x PtE is at its best here. And it doesnt even polute the regular gameplan.