Esper Thopter Foundry

[hotlikedimes]

Going to attend a legacy FNM tonight with this deck list:

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
2x Usea
1x Academy Ruins
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Swamp
2x Island
2x Plains

Creatures:
3x Baleful Strix
2x Snapcaster Mage

Instant/Sorcery:
4x Force of Will
2x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Thought Scour
2x Mental Note
3x Thoughtseize
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Dig Through Time
2x Misdirection **(Flex Spot)**

Artifacts:
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Narset Transcendent

Sideboard:
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Dread of Night
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Tsabo's Web
2x Wasteland
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Pithing Needle
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Detention Sphere
1x Flusterstorm

So 2 things. First off, I have a very slight idea what the meta game is going to look like. I know 2 decks, Junk and DnT. I've got some hate in there for DnT, but I'm not really sure about sideboarding legacy yet so we'll see how it goes.

Secondly, I've got 2 flex spots that at the moment are misdirections. I was running a full 4 DTT, but I think that's overkill, and I found that in grindy games I had multiples stuck in my hand and at a late point in the game I'm able to filter through the deck pretty easily, so the card selection of DTT is fine, but not incredible, so I'm going to cut back on them and see what else I can do. Right now it's going to be misdirections as it handles Abrupt Decay from bug/jund/junk, and AV from shardless bug, pump spells from infect, and can be FoW 5 and 6. My other thought was to play 2 monastery mentor. The deck does so much durtling that I'm thinking it might be good to have a mid-game source of pressure. I think there are some good synergies going on with artifacts, being able to draw off top end of turn and replay it for the token + prowess trigger seems pretty good. We'll see, and if anybody cares I'll do a tournament report from tonight if I feel up to it :)

[LDX]

I may not be your target audience, but I would sure welcome a report on that list.

[hotlikedimes]

I may not be your target audience, but I would sure welcome a report on that list.

Games went fairly poorly. Some due to my fault some due to sketchy keep decisions and land screw. I'll do a rough overview on my sad 0-4 night.

Round 1: Jeskai Stoneblade

Game 1 went ok, had the answers to his SFM's, and was about to stabilize at 2 life but missed that he attacked with a young pyromancer to kill me. My mistake, move to G2. Sideboarding, I bring in seal of cleansing and pithing needle for the artifacts. He showed me Sword of fire and ice G1 which I basically scoop to, so need the pithing needle to combat that. Game 2 I keep a 1 land hand and get rekt by a t3 TNN that I don't have an answer to.

TIL: I need to run council's judgement as a 1 of no doubt! Also spell snare is growing on me as a card I should include. Keeping up 2 for counterspell is a bit hard and keeping 1 blue open for spellsnare to deal with jitte, sfm, counterspell, and a handful of other spells is really handy.

Round 2: Shardless BUG

Game 1 the value was insane. He started off with a shardless agent into AV which I had no answer to, and he was able to cruise to victory on the back of a big goyf and drs activations. Game 2 I kept another sketchy land hand (2 of 'em) and got wasteland -> surgical extraction #nofun. I had the stifle open, but my nerves froze on the wasteland activation and I was infinitely far behind and never recovered

Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade

Game 1 I wasn't able to get much going on, never found a sword or thopter foundry. Always playing from behind removing SFM's and countering batterskull / sword of fire and ice / jitte. I lost to beats off snapcaster / sfm. But luckily I didn't show him any of my 'tech' aside from thought scour and top which my opponent was a bit confused about, and wasn't sure if it was some crazy miracles tech in the mirror to blow out counterbalance triggers. Game 2 I boarded in the same cards as round 1, and we proceeded to set a new tony hawk pro skater grind record. He was stuck on 2 lands for a while after I got him with a surgical on his flooded strand. I did my thing, basically goldfishing until I assembled the combo, and finally got there after about 30 minutes. Game 3 was the same as G2 of Round 1. Quick SFM (that got removed) was followed up by a TNN that I didn't have an answer to. I had a single out in thopter foundry where I probably could have raced a bit, but a desperation DTT left me with nothing going on.

Round 4: Death and Taxes

This is what I think is my worst matchup. Aether Vial and cavern of souls are super hard to deal with G1, and this game was no exception. Game 1 he had mirran crusader followed up with sword of fire and ice. I dug furiously for the swords to get me out, but no dice, and onto game 2 in a matter of minutes! Game 2 I bring in all my hate, and he starts with wasteland -> vial. I leave up the stifle for the wasteland on his t2, and of course he plays a second wasteland and wastes both of my lands, and woo I get to keep one. I don't really do much, try and dig to find stuff. He plays another wasteland and hits my last land. I make my land drop t4 and pass back. He draws his 4th wasteland and wastes my land. He draws gas the rest of the game, and I draw spells.


I was always playing reactively, which is fine for a control deck, but I need to dig to the combo pieces, or dig to answers, and brainstorm + sdt and thought scour / mental note is great to dig to items, but it takes a lot of mana to dig to the exact answer you need. There's no doubt that counterbalance + top are an infinitely more efficient answer book. I found that to find a swords that I don't have in hand, it was on average of 2 or 3 mana to find the answer you're looking for, and then you have to cast it. This manner has it's upside, as it fuels dig quite efficiently but it can be a very inefficient way to answer your opponents threats.

I think playing something that offers a bit of a midgame threat would be useful, just so your opponent has to fight what I'm doing rather than do their own thing and protect. I'm fully aware that the deck isn't t1 or t1.5, but I think either an early threat or maybe just enlightened tutors in the main would be great.

[LDX]

It seems you struggle with artifacts a lot.

This might sound crazy, but what about Enlightened Tutor in main (as I think I would play anyway) and... Gate to Phyrexia in sideboard? Even without the full combo, as soon as you have a few Thopters (or a Strix), you can get rid of the Swords and Jittes.

[hotlikedimes]

It seems you struggle with artifacts a lot.

This might sound crazy, but what about Enlightened Tutor in main (as I think I would play anyway) and... Gate to Phyrexia in sideboard? Even without the full combo, as soon as you have a few Thopters (or a Strix), you can get rid of the Swords and Jittes.

The deck can deal with the creatures, through StP and Supreme Verdict. But once SoFaI comes into play it's pretty tough to deal with and those are the only 2 answers. Spell snare helps stop SFM from getting any of them, and hopefully by the time the opponent feels like they can hard cast the sword / jitte / batterskull, I'll have answers or it'll be a naked sword. I don't think the way to deal with it is to dilute the mainboard and add meta calls to the 60, but I like the idea of the e-tutor in the main and that way I can speed up the combo a bit, either by putting SotM on top and then binning it, or thopter foundry and drawing it.

My major issue is that this deck is very fair 1 for 1's until thopter sword comes online, and it's a way more resource intensive combo than something like value.dec in stoneblade / shardless, so anything to speed up the process so I can put some pressure on the opponent is super necessary.

[TheArchitect]

Just chiming in because this is a cool archtype:

I think disenchant is way better than seal for you. Tutoring for a seal is a very lose-less type of play since they things your aiming it at often already got their advantage (top, library, bskull, vial, etc) AND now your going to 2 for 1 yourself. Gross! being able to snapcaster disenchant if very nice in a lot of matchups.

Another option, and something I did for a long time in miracles and esper stoneblade, is run 2-3 spell pierce in the 75. For a while when D&T, library, null rod, miracles and stoneblade decks were all very popular spell pierce being able to hit tops, rods, chalices, hardcast equips, sylvan libraries, liliana/jace, counterbalance, etc was very nice and I just ran pierce in the flusterstorm slot with little downside for the combo matchup.

I like your MD quiet a bit. I would not play misdirection and would probably play discard and another snap or DTT in their place. Also, I cringed when I saw narcet. Just place a 2nd Jace, hes pretty much always better.

[hotlikedimes]

Just chiming in because this is a cool archtype:

I think disenchant is way better than seal for you. Tutoring for a seal is a very lose-less type of play since they things your aiming it at often already got their advantage (top, library, bskull, vial, etc) AND now your going to 2 for 1 yourself. Gross! being able to snapcaster disenchant if very nice in a lot of matchups.

Another option, and something I did for a long time in miracles and esper stoneblade, is run 2-3 spell pierce in the 75. For a while when D&T, library, null rod, miracles and stoneblade decks were all very popular spell pierce being able to hit tops, rods, chalices, hardcast equips, sylvan libraries, liliana/jace, counterbalance, etc was very nice and I just ran pierce in the flusterstorm slot with little downside for the combo matchup.

I like your MD quiet a bit. I would not play misdirection and would probably play discard and another snap or DTT in their place. Also, I cringed when I saw narcet. Just place a 2nd Jace, hes pretty much always better.

I'm not quite sure why seal of cleansing was the pick (I copied most of the sideboard off the original christoffer andersen list from SCG Richmond) and I kinda like it, as I don't have to crack it immediately, and play around counterspells a bit easier, but I'm not sure what advantage it has aside from that. I think disenchant is definitely the card to play. Snapcaster disenchant is too good to not play. Spell pierce is an interesting option as well, I like it, and it is a fine catchall, especially when decks are cheating on lands quite a bit.

I'm actually really into narset as a spicy one of. Jace is fine, but is really easy to dispatch, it's usually out for a single brainstorm and eats damage, but with all the library manipulation Narset almost always is draw 1 and has 7 loyalty, which is generally enough to divert all my opponents damage for a turn, or it'll take them 2 turns to deal with her. Also being able to rebound StP on a clogged board, Thoughtseize, Thoughtscour / mental note, brainstorm, or dtt are all fine. Also helps close out the game if thopter foundry is online by ultimating. Everytime I've played her (which has been in 3 or 4 games) she's made an immediate impact, and while her power level isn't on par with jace, she certainly makes an impact to the board that makes people change their game play.

And the misdirection was an option, I ended up playing stifles which were unimpressive, and not really what I want to be doing. I'm going to spend some time thinking a bit about my configuration. I'm thinking about going in for either spell snare, or spell pierce, and up to 3 dtt.

[TheArchitect]

I glossed over the DTT numbers earlier and assumed you ran 3-4. If you are running 6 mental note effects, you can easily run 4 digs. Dig is also super good in your deck since you are almost always looking for specific cards. Dig is a way better card in this deck than it is in grixis control or any delver shell where its just for value basically.

[hotlikedimes]

I glossed over the DTT numbers earlier and assumed you ran 3-4. If you are running 6 mental note effects, you can easily run 4 digs. Dig is also super good in your deck since you are almost always looking for specific cards. Dig is a way better card in this deck than it is in grixis control or any delver shell where its just for value basically.

I was finding that I had some dtt's stuck in my hand, or I was binning them because I had one in hand to note effects. I definitely want 3, I think 4 might be too much. Also might go down to 4 or 5 mental note effects, but we'll see. I'll do some small changes and tweaks rather than making a lot of changes at once haha.

Also as an edit, Narset was a 1 of in the second place PW Control deck at the vintage event over eternal weekend, so I feel pretty good about the one of :)

[hotlikedimes]

With DTT being banned I'm struggling a bit to figure out where I want to take the deck. I could easily sub 4 ponders in for the 4 DTT and call it a day. Alternatively I've been thinking more and more about going for the git probe + cabal therapy route. It changes how I want to play the deck, it forces it to be a bit more aggressive with finding the thopter sword combo to get things going and keep cabal therapy's firing off. But between Thoughtsieze and therapy's I think there's a lot of good disruption going on. If I wanted to go for the probe / therapy combo I'm not sure what I'd cut, probably a thoughtscour effect? Thoughts?

[hotlikedimes]

Latest version of the deck:

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
1x Academy Ruins
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Swamp
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Karakas

Creatures:
4x Baleful Strix
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendillion Clique

Instant/Sorcery:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Thoughtseize
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Ponder
2x Spell Snare

Artifacts:
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Engineered Explosives

Planeswalkers:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
1x Notion Thief
1x Misdirection
1x Divert
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Disenchant
1x Seal of Cleansing
2x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Dread of Night
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Gurmag Angler
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Pithing Needle
1x Flusterstorm

[Ephemeron]

How's that list treating you? Have you ever wanted another win condition other than Thopter/Sword since Abrupt Decay is everywhere? I've brainstormed lists that are as simple as including Stoneforge Mystic or as crazy as Monastery Mentor + Mental Note/Thought Scour + Unearth for value with Snapcaster and Academy Ruins, but haven't gotten around to playing any actual games.

[hotlikedimes]

How's that list treating you? Have you ever wanted another win condition other than Thopter/Sword since Abrupt Decay is everywhere? I've brainstormed lists that are as simple as including Stoneforge Mystic or as crazy as Monastery Mentor + Mental Note/Thought Scour + Unearth for value with Snapcaster and Academy Ruins, but haven't gotten around to playing any actual games.

I like the list a lot. I played a 20 man event tonight that I'll do a brief write up for in a bit but want to touch on your comment first!

Abrupt decay at the right time is certainly a blow out, but in my meta there aren't a lot of abrupt decays being played in the main. Most come out of the board, and I have divert and misdirection for that exact reason.

For those times that decay is living in the main baleful strix can pick up a sword when it hits the battlefield, which is a pretty under utilized interaction, and snapcaster with a sword is often enough to win the game on the spot. The way I play the deck, I'm not looking to turbo out the combo, it's more control and have light pressure and then slam the combo with counterspells and other removal for whatever they can do while my shields are down. Jace is also super real and usually I have enough board presence to protect him.

For the decks like shardless, nic fit, jund, elves etc.. I just bring in gurmag angler, and rumbling with a 5/5 makes their removal pretty sad. Also edict effects are somewhat useless because there are so many cheap dudes that clog up the board.

I ran the thought scour / mental note package with dtt, and it was great then, but I think now thirst for knowledge is the place to be. It's really solid, usually being a draw 3 discard 1, so you net 1 card which is pretty solid and you often get to bin sword of the meek which is super relevant, and I think having the selection is worth the mana cost.

[hotlikedimes]

Event: Tuesday night legacy at GamingETC in Acton Mass. 18 players (Woo!!!)

Game 1: Storm.

Match 1: Went off with past in flames. Didn’t know what opponent was on until too late and then the game was over.
Match 2: xantid swarm kept me off counter magic while he went off. I boarded out my swords forgetting that was a card to come in. Had e-tutor for nihil spell bomb, but he went for the ad nauseum route and tendrils’d me without touching his gy

0-1 (0-2)

Game 2: bant hate blade:
Match 1: opponent was screwed off green mana. Got a jitte and batter skull into play but I assembled the combo and was able to overvalue him. Went from opponent at 30 and me at 5.
Match 2: lots of back and forth, sfm and some hate bears from him (pridemage), and countermagic + artifact removal on my end. Was able to fight through a batter skull and equipped a snap caster with a sotm for the win.

1-1 (2-2)

Game 3: infect
Match 1: t1 thought seize saved my bacon. Took a pump spell and had swords for blink moths. Won on the back of the combo while disrupting and countering my opponents pump spells
Match 2: swords, thoughtsieze and unlucky draws by my opponent won me this game. I was able to land a jace on t5 and rode the card advantage train to the end, finishing on a thought seize + surgical extraction for the last cards in their hand, ultimate jace, and passed the turn.

2-1 (4-2)

Game 4: Storm
Match 1: pretty much same story as my game 1 match 1. Tried to find some answers to his spells, instead of finding counter magic, found swords. Swords doesn’t stop storm.
Match 2: my limited sideboard hate really bit me in the ass. If I had an ethersworn canonist I think i would have been fine. had the e-tutor but could only fetch for a nihil spell bomb and hope to dig for a fluster storm or fow before my opponent tried to go off. Opponent rudely ignored my spell bomb and went of with ad nauseum and tendrils’d me for a trillion.

Final Result: 2-2 (4-4)
I dropped the last round, finished 9th.


Positives:
I'm really happy with a lot of my matchups, stoneforge decks / decks with batterskull as a wincon are great, I can out value them even if they stick a t3 batterskull. Creature based decks are really good matchups, I have lots of answers in the main and in the board, and against infect I never felt like I was going to die.

Negatives:
Spell based combo decks are a bit harder to deal with, as seen by my play. My sideboard has nihil spellbomb for dredge and past in flames storm, surgical (which is tough cause I think you need to hit the tutor when it hits the yard, and hope they grabbed past in flames or if they got ad nauseum that they brick on a tutor) and flusterstorm. I definitely think that I want more hate, ethersworn cannonist is #1 as it's tutorable so that'll be going in. Not sure if I want more pieces or not, so ideas would be great!

[hotlikedimes]

1/26 Tuesday Night Legacy Report

Updates to decklist:
Sideboard:
+1 Mindbreak Trap
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
out
-1 Notion Thief
-1 Dread of Night

added a mindbreak trap and ethersworn canonist to up my storm matchup as that was my weak spot last round, and expecting the same people, or same amount of storm i came prepared!

Round 1: Grixis Tezzerator

Game 1:
Rough hand to start, keep a swords and some counter magic and a snap caster mage. Not a whole lot of action, as my opponent and i were feeling each other out. Opponent plays a dack fadein and i’m real bummed i took out my notion thief, but that’s ok. He eventually assembles the thopter + sword combo before me and takes the game easily. I was able to conceal most of what i was playing from him outside of colors.

Game 2:
I have a much better start, i have some good counter magic in my hand and play a t4 gurmag angler with enough counter magic backup to get me there. I thougthsieze away his hand. He’s playing ancient tomb and had taken a decent amount of damage from it, so gurmey was a pretty quick kill.

No sb changes g2/g3.
Game 3:
Mulligan my first hand to one with more countermagic. Opponent gets some early sol lands and tries to get a tezzeret to stick, but i have counter spell. I land a gurmag angler with spell snare and blue elemental blast (opponent was playing *make artifact* card) for the deck fayden and other artifact hate in the board. Stick angler and ride him out to victory with my counter magic.

1-0 (2-1)

Round 2: Shardless BUG

Game 1:
Mull to 4. Opponent goes DRS, i have karakas + swords, opponents t2, hymn, i discard fow and ponder, leaving me with an uncastable brainstorm. Cry for the next 4 turns until a massive goyf puts me out of my misery.

Game 2: Mulligan to an acceptable 6, still not really sure what my game plan is but get some decent value cards. Opponent is off to a fast start with t1 drs. follows up with a t2 liliana that I counter, but it’s all down hill from there. big goyf comes down and i can answer it with thopter tokens for a little while and eventually I just die to the value.

1-1 (2-3)

Round 3: Storm!

Game 1: Woo against storm! Hoping that my sideboard improvements can get me there as e-tutor for nihil spell bomb is not going to win me the match. G1 is a disaster, opponent goes off t2 or t3 and i’m not able to get much going. Onto game 2!

Sideboard
In: Mindbreak trap, cannonist, flusterstorm, nihil spellbomb, etutor, disenchant
Out: StP, Top, and something else that's slow and dumb.

Game 2:
See an etutor and thoughtsieze in my opening hand with mana to cast them, snap keep. Start with the thoughtsieze, take a duress (feels weird, but best option), t1 opponent g-probes and ponders, t2 i play land and pass leaving up counter spell or etutor. End of opponents turn i cast tutor, grab canonist, and play it with some backup. I didn’t see a bayou so I didn’t bring in misdirection / divert for any potential abrupt decay shenanigans, but opponent scoops.

Game 3:
Canonist is in my 7, so we are snap keeping! Opponent goes land pass, i play a land and though seize, opponent brainstorms to hide some cards. I take a duress, and pass. Opponent g-probes and then ponders trying to get action. I play canonist and pass with fow backup. opponent cantrips and passes. I top deck a vclique, pass turn. clique after opponents draw and he doesn’t really have much, no hate for canonist so things look good. I top a karakas and am able to pull some karakas vclique shenanigans for a while until i land a jace and fate seal for good measure and then swing for the win!

2-1 (4-4)

Round 4: Shardless … again…
Game 1:
Rough beats, opponent has 3 abrupt decays in his opener and it’s a slow clock to dead town. I’m not able to get anything going and die to the value train.

Game 2: Much like my previous match up against shard less, the value train proves to be too much. I get a sick (hardcasted) misdirection off blowing away his goyf to protect my thopter foundry but a krosan grip, another goyf, and a drs is too much for me to beat.

2-2 (4-6)

Storm matchup is super good, midrange creature matchup is hard. I've found also in my playing that Punishing jund is a really hard matchup. Lands is surprisingly ok, I can deal with the grind and make more thopters than they have punishing fires. But jund, and shardless are real rough beats.

I'm also not very sold on ponder in the main. It's an ok card, but i don't want to spend my turn cantripping to find answers to things I don't know are coming. It's best on t1, but I'd rather play thoughtseize, hold up StP, or wait for an end of turn or in response brainstorm. Ideas on what else to play in that slot would be welcome!

[Diogo37]

no one has been testing anything?