[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[GradStudent]

New to MUD thread here: I recently started building MUD through pucatrade and was wondering if you all can recommend a particular updated build to continue to trade towards (especially with OGW now out). I do have some ugins and wastelands in my collection so I'm hoping to use those.
I'll keep lurking to learn more about matchups/sideboarding strategy.

[Stuart]

New to MUD thread here: I recently started building MUD through pucatrade and was wondering if you all can recommend a particular updated build to continue to trade towards (especially with OGW now out). I do have some ugins and wastelands in my collection so I'm hoping to use those.
I'll keep lurking to learn more about matchups/sideboarding strategy.

Welcome to the deck. The most common MUD lists look sort of like this:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10643&d=260920&f=LE

The big creatures and number of Caverns, Wastelands, and Vesuvas tend to vary, but you get the idea.

[GradStudent]

Welcome to the deck. The most common MUD lists look sort of like this:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10643&d=260920&f=LE

The big creatures and number of Caverns, Wastelands, and Vesuvas tend to vary, but you get the idea.

thanks
whats the deal with the version with ulamogs and coercive portals http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10804&d=261801&f=LE
is it any good? anyone playtest it?

[Gnagno]

Nice list! I was surprised to only see 3 Chalice, as it's one of our strongest cards. I don't mind drawing multiples: you can obviously use them to shut off other CMC cards, and multiples makes it harder for your opponent to Abrupt Decay his way out of them.

How have the 4x Cavern of Souls worked for you? I used to play 3, and hated drawing multiples, so I cut to 2.

I like the idea of 4x Wurmcoil, especially if your meta is Delver-heavy.

Do you ever play Ugin? It's an amazing card.

Thanks! Yes chalice is very strong but this choice is more personal than other, even if I play a deck like MUD I can't stand the idea of drawing a chalice in late game

About the cavern I feel very comfortable with that, because you shut down all delver's counters and they let you play robots without fearing daze or fow. Being you're best win conditions wurmcoil and sundering titan in Blue-based MU (delver deck and miracle essentially) you have to let them resolve. I can't count the times I simply made 8 mana into sundering titan incounterable and destroyed half of my opponent's board. A friend of mine which I tested was so mad he started playing back to basic in miracle just to beat me XD

This is also why I don't run Ugin. I played it and it's a rocket, the card which wins the games when resolved. But in which MU can you resolve it?

Delver deck? They have wasteland (from one to three in their opening hand when they play against me), daze, pierce, fow and if I can cast Ugin it means my opponent hasn't done it's job well.

D&t? Even worse, in addiction to wasteland there's rishadan port, thalia and revoker.

Against combo it sucks like almost all planeswalkers.

The only MU when it really shines is control, but I rather an incounterable threat like sundering.
So I just cut it. It can be easily switched with all is dust of course, maybe tomorrow I will give Ugin a second chance.

[Shinwei]

I just played 5 rounds on MTGO with the list found http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10804&d=261801&f=LE (Ugins and Coercive Portals). I did one 2-man and 1 4-round daily event.

In the 2-man, I played vs Dredge and I had zero graveyard hate anywhere to be found so I lost.

Legacy Daily Round 1 vs Miracles
This matchup was quite easy. Most of their spells don't affect me at all. The scariest threat Miracles has is Vendilion Clique. He was able to steal game 2 from me with a timely Vendilion Clique that took the Ugin out of my otherwise weak hand.
I boarded out most my Wurmcoil Engines because they will keep Swords to Plowshares. Boarded in the last Ulamog and I forget what else. Not sure if correct, this matchup is already pretty good.

Legacy Daily Round 2 vs Burn
Chalice on 1, Trinisphere, Karn exiling mountains, and Glimmerposts won me game 1.
Game 2 he was able to fire off a quick win using price of progress.
Game 3 I had Chalice on both 1 and 2, and eventually landed a Wurmcoil.
I boarded in Trinisphere #4, Wurmcoil #4, and 4x Lodestone Golem. Boarded out Karns, Ulamogs, some number of Ugin. Again, not sure if correct.

Legacy Daily Round 3 vs Reanimator
He won the die roll and went off real quickly game 1.
Game 2 I was able to land Chalice and Trinisphere into Ulamog, gg.
Game 3 I mulliganed to 4 to try and find a turn 1 Chalice, or at least turn 2 Trinisphere. No dice.
Again, there's no graveyard hate in this list so it's tough.

Legacy Daily Round 4 vs. Goblin Rabblemaster, Blood Moon, Chalice, Thunderbreak Regent, Koth deck.
Game 1 I eventually got Ugin using mana artifacts because they were not affected by Blood Moon.
Game 2 he had a turn 1 Goblin Rabblemaster off of 2x Simian Spirit guide and I could not get enough mana in time to cast All is Dust.
Game 3 I punted when he had a turn 2 Goblin Rabblemaster - There was a situation where I had the following board:
Glimmerpost, Karakas, City of Traitors, Grim Monolith (Tapped), Voltaic Key, Coercive Portal
My hand was: Karn, Wurmcoil, Ugin, All is Dust, Karakas
I could have not played the Karakas and just played Wurmcoil, but I chose to All is Dust instead. Turn after that he casts Shattering spree to kill coercive portal and voltaic key. I never draw enough mana to cast anything else.
I took out Trinispheres and Chalices game 2, but put Chalice back in game 3 because I saw shattering spree. In retrospect, this doesn't even work that well, so maybe Chalices just belong out for the whole matchup.

Going forward I definitely want some Tormod's Crypts or something in the sideboard. So I took out:
-3 Ratchet Bomb (already have Ugin and All is Dust...)
-2 Spine of Ish Sah (already have Karn and Ulamog...)
-1 Trading Post (honestly I don't know what matchup to bring this in for)
+4 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Orbs of Warding

I think Orbs of Warding is worth a try because Monolith + Voltaic Key gives you the magic 5 mana. Playing this deck I've often found myself able to generate 5 when I only needed 4 for a Coercive Portal or Thran Dynamo.

Will try again tomorrow.

[Bobmans]

In the 2-man, I played vs Dredge and I had zero graveyard hate anywhere to be found so I lost.

The key to win from Dredge play on manadenial (trinisphere) and a quick Platinum Emperion/Steel Hellkite. I found the match-up to be fairly easy this way.

[Gnagno]

I took out Trinispheres and Chalices game 2, but put Chalice back in game 3 because I saw shattering spree. In retrospect, this doesn't even work that well, so maybe Chalices just belong out for the whole matchup.

Going forward I definitely want some Tormod's Crypts or something in the sideboard. So I took out:
-3 Ratchet Bomb (already have Ugin and All is Dust...)
-2 Spine of Ish Sah (already have Karn and Ulamog...)
-1 Trading Post (honestly I don't know what matchup to bring this in for)
+4 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Orbs of Warding

Note the copies of shattering spree evade chalice at one because they aren't cast.

About trading post I met the one who played it on that tournament and told me it's useful for recycling tapped monoliths, making chumpblockers or gaining life while necessary. You take it in against long MUs, like miracle or shardless BUG.
The best trick you can do with trading post is sac spine of ish sah to draw, so spine will come back to your hand and you will be able to destroy another permanent.
Despite all I tried it and I wasn't fully satisfied. You invest a card in your hand and four mana to just do 1x1 with your resources.

Against graveyard i suggest you faerie macabre: it not collides with chalice and trinisphere (sometimes it comes up you play trinisphere or chalice at 0 and then you draw graveyard hate), it's not a spell (only pithing needle or stifle can manage it), evades removal and last but not the least, in an unknown meta is very unpredictable.

[Shinwei]

Just played another 11 2-man queues on MTGO with the Legendary MUD list. Just some notes:

- Won vs Miracles. This matchup is still really easy. Just have to watch out for Vendilion Clique and Jace.
- Won vs Stoneblade. All is Dust and Ugin are key here for killing True Name Nemesis.
- Lost vs Shardless BUG. I can't seem to beat this matchup. They have just enough disruption to stop the Master MUD plan.
- Won vs Eureka. Turns out putting Ugin and Karn onto the battlefield when they cast Eureka is pretty good :)
- Lost vs Junk. Knight of the Reliquary spamming wastelands is really tough. I was able to steal game 1 with a surprise Karakas on his Marit Lage token, though :)
- Lost vs Elves. I think the only way to win this matchup is to get an early Chalice or Trinisphere out. Game 3 he won through Trinisphere by putting out 2x Dryad Arbor and producing enough mana to hardcast Craterhoof Behemoth with 2x Gaea's Cradle.
- Lost vs Dredge. The graveyard hate I added was awesome, but I punted in game 3 by trying to sandbag a Tormod's Crypt instead of playing it on the critical turn where he played land #2, careful study, AND breakthrough.
- Won vs Normal MUD. Karn and Ulamog + Karakas seem to gives us an edge in the mirror. I exiled two Kuldotha Forgemasters and the opponent's cloudposts. Opponent didn't even want to play game 2 and just left after losing game 1.
- Won vs Merfolk. I think I got lucky in game 3 since opponent seemed to be flooded and the only merfolk he ever drew were 3x Silvergill Adept. Lodestone Golem is good in this matchup.
- Lost vs Grixis Pyromancer. I think this matchup is pretty hard. They have wastelands and counterspells and Deathrite Shaman. T1 Deathrite, T2 wasteland on my cloudpost is just about the scariest opening there is.
- Won vs Burn. Trinisphere and Wurmcoil Engine are amazing :)

[keys]

Looks a lot like Modern Tron but with better lands and disruption.

[(nameless one)]

Looking to update the primer.

What exactly is the legendary lists?

[Bobmans]

Looking to update the primer.

What exactly is the legendary lists?

Gonna give it a spin soon. But still got other decks waiting before i do.
Not sure if i want to play MUD without Forgemaster shenanigans tho.

This is the mtgtop8 link. Unwinding Clock might be sweet here.

Edit correct list.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Karakas
3 Vesuva

2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Coercive Portal
4 Grim Monolith
2 Hedron Archive
3 Karn Liberated
1 Staff of Nin
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Voltaic Key

SIDEBOARD
2 All Is Dust
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Trading Post
1 Trinisphere
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Wurmcoil Engine

[Shinwei]

Looking to update the primer.

What exactly is the legendary lists?

It's this http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10804&d=261801&f=LE

I modified the sideboard a little bit for my testing. Bobmans posted incorrect information :)

[Bobmans]

It's this http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10804&d=261801&f=LE

I modified the sideboard a little bit for my testing. Bobmans posted incorrect information :)

Lol, i copied the wrong list now i see. Weird, but i meant to copy yours idd.

Edit: fixed

[MGB]

Here's the list I've been playing:



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Karakas
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin

3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
1 Hedron Archive
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Coercive Portal

sb:
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Duplicant



I find that you just want to land the bombs against every deck. Wurmcoil is nice against some decks but a liability against others (like Miracles) or can be raced by decks it's supposed to be good against. I've found that the combination of Ugin, Karn, and the Legendary Eldrazi is good against nearly everything, and prevents your opponent from having any targets for creature removal in G1.

The idea is to completely crush the fair decks in G1 with all the powerful end-game stuff, and then transition into more traditional Revoker/Golem MUD against unfair decks in G2 and G3.

[Shinwei]

Unfortunately I can't test out Kozilek on MTGO yet since it's not released :(

[MGB]

Unfortunately I can't test out Kozilek on MTGO yet since it's not released :(

Since I test non-paper Magic on XMage, I've had access to OGW for weeks now.

I've found Kozilek to be surprisingly good, especially against control and midrange. He just completely refuels your hand and erects an impenetrable counterwall most times he's cast.

[Gnagno]

Are you able to cast cards with a CMC so high even against deck with wasteland? I never tried it because I don't posses karakas and eldrazis but I'm curious about this version.

[MGB]

Are you able to cast cards with a CMC so high even against deck with wasteland? I never tried it because I don't posses karakas and eldrazis but I'm curious about this version.

The idea behind the manabase is redundancy and resilience.

The combination of 4 Tomb, 4 City, 12 Post, AND added to that, 4 Basalt Monolith, 4 Grim Monolith, 4 Thran Dynamo and 1-2 Hedron Archive means that you will get to 10+ mana very frequently and consistently. 1-2 Wasteland is usually not a problem enough to disrupt you. The only real problem posed by Wasteland is if it's backed up with Rishadan Port and a fast clock, or if it's recursive Wasteland (through the use of Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds).

One of the upsides to playing this version over the traditional MUD list is that Basalt Monolith and Thran Dynamo are more resilient than Metalworker and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Basalt Monolith will never die to a Lightning Bolt, a Punishing Fire, a Swords to Plowshares, or a Terminus. Thran Dynamo will never die to creature removal either, and additionally evades Abrupt Decay. This way, you can more confidently ensure getting to higher levels of mana when you play Basalt Monoliths and Thran Dynamos over the traditional MUD creatures.

I've won games where my lands were destroyed but I still cast Ugin purely off the Monoliths and Dynamos. I've won games where I was hit 2-3 times by Wasteland and still managed to recur Ulamog with Karakas.

[Bobmans]

How would you compare Formaster/Metalworker vs Legends build in terms of consistancy?

[MGB]

How would you compare Formaster/Metalworker vs Legends build in terms of consistancy?

Forgemaster and Metalworker can lead to more explosive starts (i.e. they don't get rid of Metalworker and you untap with him into Blightsteel+Greaves combo next turn, for example). Forgemaster can also randomly tutor for game-savers on losing board states that just Ulamog or Ugin *might* not be able to completely handle (i.e. tutoring for Platinum Angel if you're dead to a combo next turn).

But Legends MUD is more consistent in executing its gameplan of ramping into bombs. I feel, in testing, that there is a higher percentage of games Legends MUD wins that Forgemaster MUD might not, because of Legends MUD's near-immunity to creature removal. You might lose that game against Miracles if they have StP + Snap and you're banking on keeping your Forgemaster or Lodestone in play before he lands Jace. Legends MUD is 98%+ to win that match barring flukey draws because your mana rocks are immune to anything Miracles can do, and Legends MUD is going to eventually land Karn or Ulamog on his board.