Just a story here. Today i had the most incredible play EVER with NicFit, against Reanimator.
Game1, T1 i play a savannah into Explorer. He drops a Iona in White on his turn while i hold a Path. I untap and draw a Phyrexian Tower. I sac the Explorer and GSZ into Courser of Kruphix cus i wanted to filter the top hoping to find Karakas (KotR might have been good here, but cornercase). I see a Decay on top. He then drops an Inkwell Leviathan and me 2nd Explorer from his Exhume. I untap, sac the Explorer for shuffle before draw and find Pernicous Deeds. Im at 15 and count the impact from his turn and my mana. When i sac the Courser for Tower next turn im at 9 mana. So i play the Deed, no counter. Sweet. He attacks for 14 and i untap, drop a land putting me on 2, attack with Courser and blow deed for 9!! destroying Iona and Inkwell, WTF. He gets nothing on his turn and i draw a P.Truths. I draw 1 card by paying 1 generic and 2 black. I draw a GSZ! for Scooze with 2 green open. He does not find Exhume on his turn with 3 creatures in the grave while he dies next turn from my Scooze.
Omg never stopped to think once that Pernicious Deed was an out, but i just kept playing.
Morale of the story; Never give up.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Originally Posted by Chatto
I'm probably cutting Primetime from Punishing Rhinos for something else.....Meren.....Baloth....3rd rhino....
Sigarda seems too hard to cast. Grave Titan seems reasonable.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Had similar play but with my Post Nic Fit vs S&T. G1 I dropped Deed my turn 3. He S&T in Emrakul, I put Titan (didn't had Karakas yet MD) found 2 posts, then my turn untap, play explorer tower it and blow Deed for 15 destroying Emrakul :-)
Took down a small IQ today with punishing rhinos
Main 61:
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Siege Rhino
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
Board
1 Dread of Night
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroblast
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 From the Ashes
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Beat Miracles in 2.
Beat Shardless Bug in 2.
Beat Elves in 3. (Stupid turn 2 Ruric Thar)
Beat RUG Delver in 2.
Beat D + T in 3 close games. (got to painful truths for 4, thanks thalia!)
Beat R/W Painter in 3.
Split with Mud.
Last edited by jbone2016; 01-25-2016 at 02:18 AM.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Gratz on your result. Awesome meta for Punishing Fire and lucky with the MUD split. How was the Baloth? Edit: And i am specifically interested in the Shardless MU, how did that go?
Last edited by Bobmans; 01-25-2016 at 06:14 AM.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I'm going to a local tournament this Saturday, going to be taking Scapewish. I almost have Abzan built but I'm not quite there yet - I think I prefer having the combo kill in my back pocket anyway, to be honest.
Anyway, I'm currently looking at this list. There are a few things I'm not certain about, though.
10 Creatures:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk
28 Noncreature Spells:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
3 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Painful Truths
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Slaughter Games
23 Lands:
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
15 Sideboard:
1 Scapeshift
1 Pyroclasm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
- I'd like to run Recurring Nightmare since it's so good with Meren, but I'm not sure I have enough creatures to support it.
- A six-drop could be nice, but I've always found they sit in my hand for a lot of the time, and if I get to the point where I can cast it, I can often just Scapeshift for lethal anyway. If I was going to run one, it'd probably end up being Broodmate Dragon for Recurring Nightmare shenanigans or Primeval Titan (adding a Wolf Run somewhere).
- A second two-drop could be good, probably Scavenging Ooze. I've never been too impressed by the Ooze, though. I don't see the point in putting it in the SB when I could just play Surgical in the slot, so it'd be a maindeck drop. I don't feel like it gets going quickly enough, and whenever I put it in it underperforms for a tournament then gets cut again.
- I can probably afford to cut one copy of Scapeshift and potentially one copy of either Decay or Deed, since I'm playing a copy of Diabolic Intent.
- If I'm playing Diabolic Intent and Meren, and potentially Recurring Nightmare, Dryad Arbor starts to look a lot more appealing. It's pretty awkward with my wishboard / sweepers though. Also I get significantly more vulnerable to graveyard hate.
You shouldn't care about a Dryad Arbor dying to a sweeper, it's not that important. Also, don't care about GY hate. It's not your most important angle of attack and you can still win without it. With that being said, between GSZ, Meren and Diabolic Intent (and whatever else I'm skipping over for now) Arbor does a lot of work at a very low cost.
The point of Meren is that she's good without another creature on the field where Recurring Nightmare is mostly a risk in that aspect. Don't bother with Nightmare. Meren lets you pull ahead, starting from an empty board if need be. Nightmare doesn't really generate CA but just cycles creatures (whilst consuming a lot of mana).
Scavenging Ooze is a house. It has singlehandedly won me several otherwise unwinnable games. The upside of Ooze vs. Surgical is that you can GSZ for it, making it much easier to find. It shines most vs. other slow decks that like to use their graveyard and MUs with opposing Deathrites. At the cost of keeping G open every turn you can fuck with their plans so badly, it's hilarious.
No wood elf mb?
I think you are right, nightmare needs more creatures and as incredible as it looks on paper, it feels out of place in the current meta.
Prime time adds to your game plan. seems like the auto include.
Scooze is definitely good but can be swept up in deeds.
I can see dropping a single shift but you need some number of decays. Personally, im a huge fan of 4 because I want everything dead and none of it countered. I am also not sure how much delver you plan on seeing.
By going into this intent, meren, nightmare route: you are veering pretty far away from what your deck is supposed to do. Stick to the plan: infiltrate the dealers, find the supplier.
I prefer both Nissa and Witness to Wood Elves, and I don't really want to run any more ramp-only creatures than I have to. It's probably next on the list if I want to add more only-mana creatures after the Dryad Arbor.No wood elf mb?
I am always uncomfortable running large numbers of Decays because they do very little to some decks. I also got beaten to death by a Dryad Arbor after extracting all of a Loam player's Punishing Fires once, which may be colouring my opinion here.I can see dropping a single shift but you need some number of decays. Personally, im a huge fan of 4 because I want everything dead and none of it countered. I am also not sure how much delver you plan on seeing.
I think it's going to be +1 Dryad Arbor but leaving the Recurring Nightmare out for now, then.You shouldn't care about a Dryad Arbor dying to a sweeper, it's not that important. Also, don't care about GY hate. It's not your most important angle of attack and you can still win without it. With that being said, between GSZ, Meren and Diabolic Intent (and whatever else I'm skipping over for now) Arbor does a lot of work at a very low cost.
The point of Meren is that she's good without another creature on the field where Recurring Nightmare is mostly a risk in that aspect. Don't bother with Nightmare. Meren lets you pull ahead, starting from an empty board if need be. Nightmare doesn't really generate CA but just cycles creatures (whilst consuming a lot of mana).
I think the issue I've had with Scavenging Ooze is that I try to use it against decks that are too fast for it (i.e. Reanimator) - I don't know if it's so relevant in Scapeshift simply because slow graveyard decks and Deathrite decks are already matchups I'm relatively happy to see, since I can happily grind away for a few turns, clean them of counterspells and then throw a volcano at them.Scavenging Ooze is a house. It has singlehandedly won me several otherwise unwinnable games. The upside of Ooze vs. Surgical is that you can GSZ for it, making it much easier to find. It shines most vs. other slow decks that like to use their graveyard and MUs with opposing Deathrites. At the cost of keeping G open every turn you can fuck with their plans so badly, it's hilarious.
For what it's worth, the decks I'm expecting to see most of are:
- Miracles
- Storm
- Reanimator
- Loam/Lands
- Blade variants
- Death and Taxes (though I always seem to dodge this for some reason)
- Shardless
- Maybe some Delver
- Miscellanous combo decks (Show and Tell, Painter, TinFins)
@ Navsi:
You should have a look here or at Arian's primer.
Here are a few comments (no offense intended here):
1) You run too few ramp creatures and you should be playing 24 lands / or you run too many Scape:
You have elected to play a heavy "Scape" oriented build (3 scape MD) and yet you are running far too few ramp creatures.
Arian's initial list with 3 Scapes featured:
- 4 Veteran
- 2 Sakura
- 2 Wood Elves
With your list you won't be able to fire consistently a Scape by T4/T5.
2) Decay / Scape / Meren:
As much as I get the appeal for Decay, Meren and Scape in the same deck; I truly think you are losing focus here.
Decay & Meren are to play grindy games.
Scape is to play a combo deck.
IMHO, you are diluting your goal.
3) Conclusion:
Choose your side !
Either you play a Scape deck with a midrange backup or you play a midrange deck with a combo backup. But you cannot play both of these worlds.
You'll end up too many times with Scape in hand without 7 lands to close the game or you'll end up playing a midrange game without the proper tools to close your deal.
My two cents.
Last edited by Ralf; 01-25-2016 at 11:42 AM.
I'm not particularly trying to play a grindy game. I think you're probably right that Scape wants to be a 2/1 main/side split, but I'm not so sure about the Decay and Meren idea.
- I'm going to want at least one Zenith target at 1-5 mana
- For a 4-mana target, Huntmaster is great for aggro decks, but I want something that doesn't die to Bolt, Pyroclasm, Hydroblast and Decay, as well as my own Deeds.
- Obstinate Baloth overlaps with Huntmaster and Thragtusk, and Thrun doesn't have enough board presence
- I'm basically on Meren because she's just a good value body that's difficult to remove.
Decay, along with the rest of the non-ramp stuff, is a concession to the fact that the deck is not a 'fast combo' deck in the same way that Storm or whatever is. I can't just race to combo (without a god hand) and threats like Metalworker, Counterbalance, Delver and Goblin Guide aren't something that the deck can just ignore and combo through.
For the combo to go off on turn 5, I need one explorer or Zenith. For turn 4, I'd need one additional explorer/Zenith/STE (or Meren / Witness to buy back Explorer).
If I was going to play a straight up combo deck with no midrange or control elements, I wouldn't be here, I'd be playing ANT or something.
Couldn't those stomping grounds be Cinder Glades? With the likely hood being really high you will have 2 basics in play Cinder Glade becomes taiga number 5 and 6.
Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk
Last edited by vereno; 01-25-2016 at 11:32 AM. Reason: I can't math
I have (and I presume so did other Scape's players) cobbled with Cinder Glade.
My conclusion is:
- I have died because Stomping Grounds hit me for 2 against Tempo decks (shit happens)
- But I have died "more" because Cinder Glades came into play tapped a non 0 amount of times.
Having the option to lose 2 will always be > no option, at all.
Eventually, Cinder Glades will screw more opening hands than Stomping Ground ever will.
Cheers,
Ralf
look at it like this: pay 2 life or lose a turn. Stomp the yard everytime.
Some quick notes for you:
If that's your metagame, you want maindeck Slaughter Games over maindeck Decays.
The ramp creatures are intended to color fix because the manabase is too needy to be able to run many fetchlands. The fact that they ramp is secondary in importance to the fact that they allow you to be able to cast all of your spells. I would seriously examine your colored sources before cutting the Wood Elves -- don't forget that Zenith adds adds via Wood Elves as well. Nissa is strong in the deck, but only getting a basic Forest is playing dangerously. 1 Nissa 1 Wood Elves is fine...0 is risky though.
I personally hate Dryad Arbor, ymmv.
Agree w/your thoughts on Ooze.
Primeval Titan, for me, is the reverse Ooze. It always looks awful on paper, and you want to cut it -- but then it carries you and overperforms. I know Ralf doesn't really like Primetime much in Scape, but I personally swear by him. The only real trick with Primeval in Scape is that you -need- to know all the layering tricks with him and Valakut. If you can't do broken things with Valakut with him, don't bother running the card.
Are you referring to getting your fifth and sixth mountains at the same time for two triggers / getting Valakut and mountain #6? Not sure if I'm missing something here.
Yup. You'd be surprised at the number of people who -don't- know that, even among people I've seen playing Scapewish at larger legacy events.
I really like Primetime, Arian.
I have killed a bunch of opponents with him.
But from experience, the only games Primetime had saved my arses where against D&T and that unmanageable f. BSK.
Every other corner cases were... corner cases, you know.
Agree with the only trick about Primetime !
My list is 60 cards, right now and one can play whatever 61th green creature that suits him best.
And if I were to make a choice I think Thragtusk n°3 might be the real deal at the moment.
I also have cut a SLG for a "fiery confluence". Damn, this card is real.
Gush, Truth is really some raw power in Jund Fit...
If putting multiple mountains and Valakut into play didn't give you multiple triggers, Scapeshift would be a pretty bad card.
With Primeval Titan in Scapeshift, I've found that the common thing which happens is that I get Primeval and do some damage, but he gets removed before I can actually kill my opponent, and then I've searched up enough mountains into play that I don't have lethal from Scapeshift any more (esp. since it gives my opponent a chance to Wasteland / remove my Valakuts).
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the last time we were talking about him.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
