As this seems to go towards my boarding in R5 and/or T8, I had the "luxury" to keep 3 Terminus in due to the fact that I didn't have enough cards to board in.Originally Posted by Dissection
Luxury is a nice way of putting it. Post board it's common for Reanimator to go for Grave Titan so having a few Terminus lying around is nice. I'd certainly keep a few in in your shoes, but the build I'm trying at the moment has plenty of cards to bring in. There are so many builds of Miracles now there is no objectively right or wrong way of doing it outside the obvious.
I've edited my previous comment from 'mistake' to 'something' as clearly it's not a mistake given your SB arrangements.
Entreat is old bae showing you why she will always be best bae.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
i can't really see the full deck image.Soooo I got Top8 of the Legacy Challenge yesterday with a kind of strange list, went 7 - 0 (well, 6 - 0 and my last opponent just checked what I played, then conceded. Pretty smart, as I noticed that you do not get the right to play after being first seed) and then proceeded to missplay heavily twice (listening to people on Skype, going against my intuition) which cost me my first match in the Top8.
Round breakdown:
R1: ANT - 2:0
R2: Elves - 2:0
R3: Burn - 2:0
R4: Junk - 2:1
R5: Reanimator - 2:1
R6: Miracles - 2:0
R7: ??? - 2:0
T8: Reanimator - 1:2
Recorded all of the matches, so I'll just have to see that I'll mute the sound (being in Skype.. also getting intoxicated which might not have helped) and cut a bit on the beginning / end to create a yt playlist. Will probably happen today? I'll see. | Playlist added below |
For starters, here's the list that performed strangely well (as you will see, I ripped stuff from the top pretty much whenever I needed it):
The basic idea is to get around the Chalice decks by cutting down ponder and simultaenously attack their mana with the maindeck already. I'd really like to get some more Predicts in there as a way to give more CA, but don't see the slots atm.
Edit:
Here's the playlist. Without commentary, I wanted to record the games, but didn't want to actually do a commentary because we were goofing around in Skype. Soooo.. take that with a grain of salt.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...IMGhPem1vCK87e
Spoiler:
Just from the top of my head:
Screwed up 1 Entreat when another card was on top.
Screwed up Entreat twice against the Junk guy and lucked out in the end
Not windmill slamming Rest in Peace, but going for Vendilion Clique < bad advice
MISSING the draw step, crucial to the Vendilion Clique plan < my mistake
Playing Rest in Peace before Redblast, as to eliminate Snapcaster as my out < bad advice again
But main board blood moon? how is that working out for you? aside from the legacy challenge games?
link to MTGO deck lists,
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...3-13#decklists
Dsck's list is a bit interesting. It's very typical on the first look, then I noticed it has 2 Volcs And a mountain, slightly favoring red source over Karakas. Then I saw 2 RiP And Priest. I am guessing this is MTGO meta thing.
Best card for miracles until now! Reason: anticipates that there will be new angel tokens =D =D
I don't think it'll see play though, too expensive cost and at 6 cmc you could get 4 angels with entreat
Best card for miracles until now! Reason: anticipates that there will be new angel tokens =D =D
I think he just means it's the most relevant card spoiled because it means there will be new 4/4 angel tokens. Six mana is of course way too much.
In seriousness the most relevant card in the set so far for us is probably Invasive Surgery. I expect it to be in Delver SBs, potentially even MD, catching Terminus.
Oops sorry misread the comment. Well taking that into account, I'm pretty excited about the angel tokens too and here's hoping there will be great art depicting the fallen angels
I actually think that manabase (5 Duals with a basic mountain over 6 duals) has become more the norm than the other way around. This makes the manabase much more robust against decks playing wasteland, where you actually want access to REB/Pyroblast.
Some people prefer RiP over Priest, due to crosshate against stuff like RUG/BUG Delver (wrt. BUG, I'd imagine they board in their Blood Moons as well, which means their decays is super taxed), where Priest is useless.
*The new envelope: That card will never be maindeckable. Imagine playing against any of the non-blue decks with it (Including Eldrazi) That card is utterly useless at these times. Of course it'll be played in (mostly BUG) delver lists.
Agreed with you completely. I mentioned earlier in this thread about why I prefer basic mountain in scenarios, but you summed it up pretty nicely. I'm extremely underwhelmed with Rest in Peace and don't really anticipate myself playing it anytime soon unless there's a room full of dredge or something.
New envelop is extremely scary, but not maindeckable. Envelop has seen some play here and there, but never enough to really be worrisome, but this is envelop that takes our terminuses. However, it is still rather difficult to turn on. 4/5 is easy for goyf in legacy, not so easy for this since it is the caster's gy only.
One thing to note:
Usually, 3 Volcanic, 0 Basics mean a higher amount of lands (22 or 21 respectively) compared to the (mostly on here, and now a days) predict based lists who tries to come closer to the Xerox Principle, with maximum amount of cantrips.
If you don't see, or draw, as many cards, you obviously need more lands. By default, having more lands make you stronger against wasteland, so there's that..
If you are totally convinced about the Blood Moon SB plan, does that mean you prefer 3 Volc + 0 Mountain? Or does that mean you prefer to have one Mountain? I guess it's possible for Eldrazi to aggressively waste your Volc in fear of Blood Moon. Say you're totally sold on the Blood Moon Plan, it does make Cavern and Karakas awkward. After the release of Eldrazi, outside of Lossett, only Jeremy Fehon from Philly has one Karakas. Feels like most Miracles players assume they would fall over to Eldrazi, pack Moon, and get rid of Cavern/Karakas.
The ideal scenario has been to play mountain if you're on the blood moon plan so that you have a non-disruptable way of making sure you hit your blood moon when you need it. I wouldn't play blood moon in conjunction with cavern/karakas, since it is a bit of nonbo. I've been a bit disillusioned with blood moon, since everyone hedges against it now, not just eldrazi. Lejay, the master himself, is packing a version with basic Wastes in it as well, and blood moon on its own was never really a win condition. I think the plan of attempting to turbo entreat might just be better and less clunky than trying to go blood moon into win con. Blood moon also makes fetching early awkward in most scenarios since you want UU to cast your cbs and cliques, WW to cast CJ or ETA, and R to cast moon and it's impossible to get all that within turn 3, and blood moon is better the earlier you have access to it.
I'm not sure what answers we could have that are less flimsy than blood moon since the only real matchup I want it in, especially with lands now having decay as well as kgrip and blood moon actively being a stone blank in the face of molten vortex. I don't think blood moon is a thing I want to be doing going forward.
Are there non-permanent (or at least, non-enchantment) based answers to chalice decks? I can't think of many outside of Council's Judgment off the top of my head
Wastes in Eldrazi is whatever; the benefit is not only shutting down their Sol lands, but also keeping Cavern from making things uncounterable, which turns on all our countermagic, so who gives a damn if they can cast spells off of a basic Wastes.
If you're on the Moon plan, you should be looking for Jace as your main win-con. Of course, this doesn't mean you side out your ETAs. Just fetch based on what mana your hand tells you that you need. If you seem to have a hand full of white spells, fetch 1 Island, 1 Plains, and the Volc to land the Moon. If your hand is mostly blue spells, then fetch Island Island Volc. Moon slows down Eldrazi enough that we can then find a way to our Plains, whether through Brainstorm/Ponder/Snapcaster those two or Jace.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
Good job！I agree with you
Best card for miracles until now! Reason: anticipates that there will be new angel tokens =D =D
What countermagic? Miracles against this doesn't maintain it's counterspell roll. You shouldn't keep in any counterspells except FoW, and Snare. CB is utter trash. Blood moon is utilized because it negates cards that require <C> mana, like TKS and Smasher, etc, since it's uncastable under a blood moon. Basic wastes lets them do all of these under a blood moon, and that's not something to be ignored
I think you vastly overestimate how good Jace is, it soaks up some damage etc.If you're on the Moon plan, you should be looking for Jace as your main win-con. Of course, this doesn't mean you side out your ETAs. Just fetch based on what mana your hand tells you that you need. If you seem to have a hand full of white spells, fetch 1 Island, 1 Plains, and the Volc to land the Moon. If your hand is mostly blue spells, then fetch Island Island Volc. Moon slows down Eldrazi enough that we can then find a way to our Plains, whether through Brainstorm/Ponder/Snapcaster those two or Jace.
I've cut Blood moon because it simply doesn't do enough, as I've said multiple times, it literally only hoses one deck, and it doesn't literally end the game, you will need blood moon + x. Go read the eldrazi primer in the DTB section, it's extremely informative. Your plan in all cases should be to stay alive enough to cast terminus, not get it countered by warping wail, and then win with ETA being the safest way to do so. I've played against the deck literally hundreds of times and that's what the matchup really boils down to.
Agree here on pretty much all points, Jace gets...smashed, very easily. That's the reality of it.
I ran almost the same list as last week back at my LGS last night and went 4-0 again, it's feeling great. Only changes from last week is -2 Daze +2 Spell Snare and in the SB -1 Containment Priest +1 Izzet Staticaster.
R1 vs Wu Stax. This was horrible. Horrible horrible horrible. I got trounced G1 by Armageddon, Crucible and Smokestack. G2 and 3 were incredibly tight, but Blood Moon slowed his fast mana down and a Clique pecked away.
R2 vs 4c Deathblade. Terminus is good.
R3 vs Esper deathblade. Came down to a crazy G3 where we had about 10 cards each in our libraries, but I found a Ponder > SDT > the second Mentor when we were hellbent.
R4 vs Infect. G1 blind flip a Terminus to counter a Become Immense and take over from there, G2 he has triple Daze after T1 elf for everything and I can't find a StP. G3 was a crazy grindfest where he had Library for 5 or 6 turns, but Snapcasters kept everything off the board and finally whittled him down. He had to Berserk two of them which was pretty funny.
Going forward I think the deck wants a maindeck Wear//Tear as mort- has done. It relies on countermagic to answer everything that isn't a creature, it's very cold to CotV G1 if you don't have the force. The cut I think is a Predict, but it's been so powerful! Other option is a Spell Snare (but that's cutting an 'answer' to CotV too). An extra gain from this would be a spare SB slot which I would move the Cavern from the main to and add a third Tundra. I'd like some thoughts on this though as I'm not really sure.
I'm still playing two Blood Moons in the SB because I just haven't gotten around to changing anything. They've been fine, but not amazing. I think I will test out Minniehajjs reasoning and go without them next week.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Predict
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
SB:
2 Blood Moon
2 Wear//Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Izzet Staticaster
I don't think the enchantments are necessary in the matchup.
It often comes down to
1) Answering Chalice, x=1
2) Resolving two Terminus
3) Winning the game (I've won plenty times with Snapcaster Beats).
With a sideboard of:
3x Flusterstorm
2x Clique
2x Wear//Tear
1x Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Monestary Mentor
2x Containment Priest
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
I board in the following:
2x WEar//Tear
1x Explosives
2x Clique
1x Mentor
for:
4x Counterbalance
1x Ponder
1x Counterpell
I want the Explosives for the either the 2 drops (Mimic, Thorn, Sphere) or the x drops (Chalice, Endless ones).
I want the clique for some additional pressure, as well as the ability to make terminus resolve; Clique removing Warping Weil.
Wear is pretty obvious, I want some additional removal for their Chalice.
Mentor is just another good beater versus them.
I play a pretty stock Entreat/Predict/20 land list.
We have 4 FoW and 2 Counterspells, plus 3 Snaps to flash those back if we have the mana, especially the latter counter. Of course we side out CB. That wasn't what I meant when I said Moon stops Cavern.
You overestimate their ability to have Wastes when they need it. It's not like they're playing Evolving Wilds to tutor them up at will; they're at the mercy of their top decks. Since we can library-manipulation, we can set up our mana so that we're not as punished by an early Blood Moon.
Blood Moon hoses 1 deck, and is very good against other greedy decks: 4c Loam and 4c Delver and Lands, and to a lesser extent BUG decks (better against Delver than Shardless). Yes, they're starting to bring in Grips (Lands) and more Decays (Delver), but then that's less removal for Counterbalance (in the Delver and Loam and Lands MUs).
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
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