[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

I definitely feel that Slaughter Games is worse than it used to be, but I'm fond of it from my Jund days.

Are you still playing Ethersworn Canonists and Thalia for storm? If I cut slaughter games, I'd just have additional discard, Teeg, and surgicals. That makes me a little nervous. There's something warm and fuzzy feeling about looking through a storm players deck and taking things out.

PS - SoI should be legal on Friday.

I believe the spots will be adjusted to help storm/etc. I just want something less narrow and faster.

PS - Thanks ^_^

Did you run 2 copies of Meren?

On overall your list looks pretty solid.

Not really sure about Abeyance, typically we want something that lasts longer then a turn and we want to tap-out. Effects like this suite more in a deck much faster clock, where we are grindy in most MU's.

Lately PrimeTime + Two Towers are back on my radar, while i am also on consideration to cut Meren. Taking in account Ricardio's thoughts on SGames this enables the Stronghold position back into the manabase.

In agreement with BobBro, abeyance does not seem like where we want to be.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I LOVE PRIME TIME. He is my absolute favorite card in magic. I do not think he is best for junk fit. Stronghold my be best for the taiga spot but I may turn it into a fetch.

We need something for other matchups like miracles and storm to help post board. TKS has been insane in GB 8 post but I don't think its playable in junk. Tidehollow sculler?

[Dzogchen]

I got to play a few games with the new Sorin recently and I had a couple quick thoughts from the few games I saw it:

- I was really excited about the card draw overall, but in a deck like ours with such high CMC cards, it can really dome them when you use top to set it up. Top for the highest CMC, use Sorin, profit. It didn't really hit me how sweet it was until I had Sorin and a top next to each other on the table. Sometimes it also helps you get the card you want off top, without having to flip the top to do it.

- Against an Eldrazi opponent I really liked that he could come down, kill the Reality Smasher that just hit me in the face, make up for the life, and then dig me back in cards. 6 loyalty is a big deal. Even if you just drop him and plus it and go to 7 it can he hard for them to kill.

[Hmmm_Really?]

How do you use Abeyance? Cast it on upkeep when you expect them to go off that turn? Cast it in response to Dark Ritual? I'm interested in this tech, but I'm a little skeptical of reactive answers in a deck like this one.

Cast Abeyance in response to them casting Tendrils? Or in response to them casting Ad Nauseum? Or after it resolves?

Also, Abeyance will stifle the Stage/Depths ability, right?

[Ricardio]

I got to play a few games with the new Sorin recently and I had a couple quick thoughts from the few games I saw it:

- I was really excited about the card draw overall, but in a deck like ours with such high CMC cards, it can really dome them when you use top to set it up. Top for the highest CMC, use Sorin, profit. It didn't really hit me how sweet it was until I had Sorin and a top next to each other on the table. Sometimes it also helps you get the card you want off top, without having to flip the top to do it.

- Against an Eldrazi opponent I really liked that he could come down, kill the Reality Smasher that just hit me in the face, make up for the life, and then dig me back in cards. 6 loyalty is a big deal. Even if you just drop him and plus it and go to 7 it can he hard for them to kill.

Great, hes right where we wanted him. Now, he just has to dodge double abrupt decay because of the 6 cmc

Cast Abeyance in response to them casting Tendrils? Or in response to them casting Ad Nauseum? Or after it resolves?

Also, Abeyance will stifle the Stage/Depths ability, right?

I am curious as to whether you read this card. It does nothing to tendrils on the stack. You would wait for ad nauseam to resolve and then respond to their tutor.

How does this effect stage/depths? I am really confused.

[Deadinthestreet]

I got to play a few games with the new Sorin recently and I had a couple quick thoughts from the few games I saw it:

- I was really excited about the card draw overall, but in a deck like ours with such high CMC cards, it can really dome them when you use top to set it up. Top for the highest CMC, use Sorin, profit. It didn't really hit me how sweet it was until I had Sorin and a top next to each other on the table. Sometimes it also helps you get the card you want off top, without having to flip the top to do it.

- Against an Eldrazi opponent I really liked that he could come down, kill the Reality Smasher that just hit me in the face, make up for the life, and then dig me back in cards. 6 loyalty is a big deal. Even if you just drop him and plus it and go to 7 it can he hard for them to kill.

I'm glad Sorin has been working out for you, I need to pick one up. Can I see the 75 you were rolling with?

[Bobmans]

Great, hes right where we wanted him. Now, he just has to dodge double abrupt decay because of the 6 cmc
I am curious as to whether you read this card. It does nothing to tendrils on the stack. You would wait for ad nauseam to resolve and then respond to their tutor.
How does this effect stage/depths? I am really confused.

Abeyance does not Stifle DD/Stage: 8/1/2008: This can't be used as a counterspell. It will have no effect on spells which were on the stack when it was cast, nor on those cast in response to it. Just confirmed that this also counts for activated abilities already on the stack.
And RG lands will just take the turn and activate it then anyway.

Next to this, floating 2 mana just to, maybe, live 1 turn longer vs fast combo decks doesn't seem to be a solid plan. It is just timewalking yourself since you are not casting anything else anyway. Being proactive and put up pressure is something that works better. T2/3 you want to drop hatebears, GSZ into Teeg/Scooze, playing discard and whatnot. If your not busy doing this you probably have a bad opening hand and are already losing.

Hearing about Sorin is good news. Main or Board, whats your opinion?

[Hmmm_Really?]

I am curious as to whether you read this card.

reading the card and understanding how the frickin card works are two different things in my world... that's why I'm here... to learn from you bunch of wingnuts

[Ricardio]

Abeyance does not Stifle DD/Stage: 8/1/2008: This can't be used as a counterspell. It will have no effect on spells which were on the stack when it was cast, nor on those cast in response to it. Just confirmed that this also counts for activated abilities already on the stack.
And RG lands will just take the turn and activate it then anyway.

Next to this, floating 2 mana just to, maybe, live 1 turn longer vs fast combo decks doesn't seem to be a solid plan. It is just timewalking yourself since you are not casting anything else anyway. Being proactive and put up pressure is something that works better. T2/3 you want to drop hatebears, GSZ into Teeg/Scooze, playing discard and whatnot. If your not busy doing this you probably have a bad opening hand and are already losing.

Hearing about Sorin is good news. Main or Board, whats your opinion?

MAINBOARD of course. I will be jamming atleast 1.

reading the card and understanding how the frickin card works are two different things in my world... that's why I'm here... to learn from you bunch of wingnuts

Ha, well, some amount of ground work is necessary. I wasn't sure if it was an elaborate troll.

[Jaytron]

I have a question from the other side of the table.

Is it best to kill a vet explorer before the Nic Fit player can get value out of it? Or just let it live for as long as you can to stop the ramp?

I feel like spending a bolt or other removal cards is better than letting them double cabal you or ramp super hard with a Phyrexian Tower.


From the Nic Fit side, I feel like it doesn't really matter. But it felt better for me when I was able to choose how the vet died.

[sdematt]

I have a question from the other side of the table.

Is it best to kill a vet explorer before the Nic Fit player can get value out of it? Or just let it live for as long as you can to stop the ramp?

I feel like spending a bolt or other removal cards is better than letting them double cabal you or ramp super hard with a Phyrexian Tower.


From the Nic Fit side, I feel like it doesn't really matter. But it felt better for me when I was able to choose how the vet died.

Plow if possible, or at least try to get the lands on your turn, not the Nic Fit turn. Thats the only way you can try to get value.

[Bobmans]

I have a question from the other side of the table.

Is it best to kill a vet explorer before the Nic Fit player can get value out of it? Or just let it live for as long as you can to stop the ramp?

I feel like spending a bolt or other removal cards is better than letting them double cabal you or ramp super hard with a Phyrexian Tower.


From the Nic Fit side, I feel like it doesn't really matter. But it felt better for me when I was able to choose how the vet died.

I lost because the Vet got FoW'd and the land got Wasted... even without Wasteland (because of Basics) losing a vet trigger gives a Delver player tempo.

[Ricardio]

Resolving vet triggers is first and foremost albeit if they are throwing swords away on them, you can imagine they want the game over immediate so as soon as you stabilize, its all ogre.

I don't think wasting a bolt is where you wanna be. sometimes you have to push through it and hope to make it out alive. if the bolt lets a 4+ power creature through then it makes sense to clock fast but not during the nic fits main phases. sometimes vet is an unblockable 1/1 or a brick wall. First vet trigger catches you up and the second gets you ahead.

[rubblekill]

I have been milling over the idea of cutting S games from junk sideboard and I believe it is the right course of action. Coupled with helping the manabase, I think it frees up 3 important sideboard spots

Have you given up on the miracles match up that badly that you have decided to not even try against them? 3 SG were life saving tools against that cancer of a deck. In a world without that deck I'd gladly live without the hated taiga and those 3 SB cards.

[Ricardio]

Have you given up on the miracles match up that badly that you have decided to not even try against them? 3 SG were life saving tools against that cancer of a deck. In a world without that deck I'd gladly live without the hated taiga and those 3 SB cards.

I think SG has lost some of its power against them. I think we need to approach it from a different angle. I can't give up on the matchup because the stain that is miracles has infected legacy. I beat it with GB 8 post last night and the miracles pilot got salty. helped me sleep that night.

[Jaytron]

Plow if possible, or at least try to get the lands on your turn, not the Nic Fit turn. Thats the only way you can try to get value.

Plow would be the best, but when I play delver, I don't have that, unfortunately.

I lost because the Vet got FoW'd and the land got Wasted... even without Wasteland (because of Basics) losing a vet trigger gives a Delver player tempo.

I've definitely burned a FoW on a T1/T2 Vet.

Resolving vet triggers is first and foremost albeit if they are throwing swords away on them, you can imagine they want the game over immediate so as soon as you stabilize, its all ogre.

I don't think wasting a bolt is where you wanna be. sometimes you have to push through it and hope to make it out alive. if the bolt lets a 4+ power creature through then it makes sense to clock fast but not during the nic fits main phases. sometimes vet is an unblockable 1/1 or a brick wall. First vet trigger catches you up and the second gets you ahead.

Yeah, I guess that's what I've been on the fence about. Bolts and Vets.

On one hand, bolting the vet guarantees I don't get double cabaled unless he has a 2nd vet. But it does guarantee them ramping hard. Just thought I'd hear your guys' thoughts on the matter.

[madlameguy]

I think SG has lost some of its power against them. I think we need to approach it from a different angle.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm not sure what will be better. Perhaps Sorin will get there. Are you planning on running a Diabolic Intent with which to fetch him to hand?

[Ralf]

@ thread:

Here is an explanation for abeyance, as it messes up with:

- Any miracle trigger on the stack
- Snapcaster shenanigans
- Prevents equipments from being "attached" if played during upkeep/end of oppo's draw
- Ancestral vision's last counter trigger
- Shardless & BBE's cascade trigger (works only if a non creature spell is revealed this way)
- Infernal Tutor on the stack
- Buys you a free attack phase against any sorcery combo deck
- Prevents PW from being activated if played during upkeep/end of oppo's draw or when any PW is on the stack
- Can lure your opponent into activating some abilities or play some spells during their turn (DRS, wasteland, anything with an activated ability)
- Replaces itself
- Etc...

I truly think Abeyance has some potential in any non blue shell playing some white.

Obviously, I have considered Orim's chant instead of Abeyance.
I guess both are fine, yet different:
- OC is cheaper than Abeyance and that could be a matter of life or death
- OC prevents creature spells from being cast
- OC can prevent creatures from attacking (for WW)
+ OC does not prevent abilities from being activated
+ OC does not replace itself

I won't blame anyone for playing OC instead of Abeyance as it is a better card against combo deck.
But I think as Abeyance draws you a card, it is better equipped against a wider array of decks (Combo, Control, Midrange).

Anyway, try the one you like and let's share thoughts/experience afterwards.

[Ricardio]

I feel exactly the same way. I'm not sure what will be better. Perhaps Sorin will get there. Are you planning on running a Diabolic Intent with which to fetch him to hand?

Im not a fan of intent because it begs for blow outs. I know we want something that cant be countered or deals with jtms/tokens/terminus.

Deal with their win cons and they are done. usually 2 jtms, 1 entreat, 1-2 mentor. F*ck Miracles, get money.

@Ralf: But what about seedtime? I am still not sold on that card but I know you will test it and I can only hope you prove me wrong.

[Ralf]

@Ralf: But what about seedtime? I am still not sold on that card but I know you will test it and I can only hope you prove me wrong.

I will test/think about seedtime but the condition is really bad.
I have tested abeyance. The card is good and that is why I am suggesting it to you, guys.

[Ricardio]

I will test/think about seedtime but the condition is really bad.
I have tested abeyance. The card is good and that is why I am suggesting it to you, guys.

I look forward to your results. I am apprehensive with trying abeyance because I feel it to be too corner case. I will dabble and express my findings after which.

Also with the gp coming up, who is going to GP Columbus? Also, is anyone going to the modern gp in Charlotte?