http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post944846Originally Posted by the_goat
That is barook's sideboard list. A small part is outdated like karakas from sideboard. Anyway, how do you guys fight maverick or loam decks game 1? It feels like the general theory for these value based mid range graveyard decks is to overrun them, so in games 2 and 3 the sideboard we should be keeping our low mana threats like mimics in while bringing leyline of the void in general.
I completely agree but there's very little I can do about him cliquing my hand, even with a Jitte (though I agree with your point that getting a 2 for 1 on a Jitte is much better than 1 for 1 with the Warping Wail
Anyways was just my thoughts on it from my limited experiences :)
In regards to equipping factories, you're ok losing a land in that case? Hmmm... now you have me re-thinking my strategies and perhaps I've been doing it wrong. I don't usually make that trade, so my Jitte sits on the board with less than optimal counters on it. Maybe I'll try your advice and play them more aggressively (thank you!)hehehe yes ofcourse you rather have a smasher. i whould play 10 smashers if it was possible. but i am equiping my factories all day with jitte. it is a good trade against blockers most of the time. i also like jitte after a boardcleaner. yes in the miracle match wail is hands down the better card. against sneaky show i am mostly building up my boardstate, i have no time to keep up the mana for wail most of the time. but i still keep them in in the match, just in case ^^
How have you been using your factories? The whole point of them being there is to apply constant pressure along with building a board. Personally Factory and Endless One are Prime targets for Jitte.
Depends on the deck. If they can get the Wastelock going on early, you're toast. Other than that, hopefully overrunning them before they lock you out. KotR can be handled with Displacer to a certain degree, but it's no guarantee to win (see: my lost quarterfinals in the latest Legacy Challenge)
Btw, the WR Eldrazi list that I recently lost to also placed 5-0:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/418572#online
I'd like to point out that if you replace the Battlefield Forges with Corrupted Crossroads, you could also run World Breaker in the SB with no problem.
I actually really like that idea and will be trying the same list but World Breakers replacing the Oblivion Sowers in the board. (And I guess, +1 Corrupted Crossroads, -1 Plateau. I will also miss factories)
Oh I use my Factories aggressively but equipping a Jitte on them every turn is 3 mana every turn. Thats what i meant, in that i dont use them agressively with jitte. Usually I'm trying to keep board presence by adding additional threats. Most of the time I simply don't have an extra 3 mana available to equip it OR I have to decide if equipping a Jitte and attacking with a worker is a better play than adding an endless one to the board (for example).
Barook - have you tried the red splash with obliterator yet from the list you posted? Was curious how they worked, as on paper, obliterator feels like a strong play. Fully agree on your crossroads change as well (I'd rather 4x crossroads over 2 plateau as well personally).
sweet list with the red splash. but i really dislike petals in eldrazi decks (i know its a must in 2 collors). i guess i will be a collorless dude forever :(. perhaps im trying mono red in the future, to keep my apes ^^
these new lists make me want to try out new builds. but as riehu stated before, you will most of the time come back to collorless, due to its consistency
Last edited by Noloam_; 05-20-2016 at 02:28 AM.
Not really - when should I have done that?
With some modifications, I do like the idea behind the deck. Obligator makes it a even more aggressive breed than my list. I can see Obligator being better than Matter Reshaper, although I don't know if it's worth losing the resilience, especially the Factories. Haste makes it another Planeswalker killer out of nowhere (filling a similiar spot to Factory, except for the lack of sweeper resilience) and it should be pointed out that it enables even more broken starts with Eye, since you have 8 colored creatures that can be played with Lotus Petal (which are 4 copies in the deck). E.g. Eye + 2x Petal + 2x Obligator is 6 hasty power on T1. Being playable under Blood Moon is just an added bonus.
3 power haste + the ability to steal a blocker/fatty can really screw with combat math and 8 hasty, high power creatures is nothing to sneeze at. It's a shame Temple's double mana can't be used for the "kicker" cost.
While I can't test in the next few days due to being away from my apartment (= shitty internet), I'd probably run this list as a starting point. If somebody wants to test it, let us know the results. I'm very interested:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Sideboard:
2 Karakas
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember (flex slot, could be something else, see below)
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
Maybe Dismember isn't needed anymore with Obligator as additional "removal" and could be Jitte/Spatial Contortion/something else.
My dislike for Endbringer should be well-known by now, so I moved the 4th Displacer to the main. Casting it should be no issue with that white count.
Not sure if the 3rd City is really necessary. Maybe there's a way to squeeze in some Factories, but I don't think the amount of colored mana should be messed with, given the importance of the colored drops. But that's all just theorycraft.
I should have some time this weekend and I have almost every card in that list (I think I only have 3 Obliterator but Im sure I can grab one from the local shop tomorrow), so I'll sleeve it up and playtest it over the next couple of days.Not really - when should I have done that?
With some modifications, I do like the idea behind the deck. Obligator makes it a even more aggressive breed than my list. I can see Obligator being better than Matter Reshaper, although I don't know if it's worth losing the resilience, especially the Factories. Haste makes it another Planeswalker killer out of nowhere (filling a similiar spot to Factory, except for the lack of sweeper resilience) and it should be pointed out that it enables even more broken starts with Eye, since you have 8 colored creatures that can be played with Lotus Petal (which are 4 copies in the deck). E.g. Eye + 2x Petal + 2x Obligator is 6 hasty power on T1. Being playable under Blood Moon is just an added bonus.
3 power haste + the ability to steal a blocker/fatty can really screw with combat math and 8 hasty, high power creatures is nothing to sneeze at. It's a shame Temple's double mana can't be used for the "kicker" cost.
While I can't test in the next few days due to being away from my apartment (= shitty internet), I'd probably run this list as a starting point. If somebody wants to test it, let us know the results. I'm very interested:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Sideboard:
2 Karakas
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember (flex slot, could be something else, see below)
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
Maybe Dismember isn't needed anymore with Obligator as additional "removal" and could be Jitte/Spatial Contortion/something else.
My dislike for Endbringer should be well-known by now, so I moved the 4th Displacer to the main. Casting it should be no issue with that white count.
Not sure if the 3rd City is really necessary. Maybe there's a way to squeeze in some Factories, but I don't think the amount of colored mana should be messed with, given the importance of the colored drops. But that's all just theorycraft.
It looks pretty interesting, I really like your inclusion of the 2x World Breaker in the side over the Sowers. With the crossroads, should be no problem at all to cast them.
4 petals is gonna be awful awkward with any tax effects in play though. <3 SSG!
Been thinking. . . I don't see why you have to play petals in that list. You only need green for WB in the SB. With 4 Cross Roads and 4 Cavern of Souls, thats 8 sources of Green. By the time you reach WB mana - that's around turn 3-4. You should have hit a green source by then. You're running the petals due to worry about Wasteland. But if they're playing wasteland, they would waste a 2 mana source if they see you reaching WB mana. So if they're running wasteland - to cast WB while fighting through that you'll be casting it around turn 5-6 - so . . . I don't know you'll need at around 10 green sources. . .
What i'm getting at is 2 Lotus Petals and 2 SSG should still be fine in that list.
Ideally, you want to have 13 white sources if you were to play the displacer on turn 2. Perhaps you don't want it that early though, I'm not sure. The obliterator (with SSG) would give you a total of 13 red sources, which is perfectly fine for T2 according to ChannelFireballs chart located here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...t-your-spells/
Using only 2 petals and 9 white source land, you only have 11 but again, maybe that's ok. It's certainly enough for World Breakers, so you're absolutely right on that. I wonder if you couldn't squeeze a Karakas or two into the main to get an extra white source (not to mention, very solid utility).
Tax effects are normally run only in the board, or if the opponent has Thalia. It's only a minor issue.
You're forgetting about Displacer mana. Of course SSG is superior as a mana source, but it can't provide dual/tripple colors for fixing.
As I said before, the third City could be an utility land slot. That's personal preference, but I'm not a fan of drawing multiple cities, especially as only mana sources early game. Two copies are good number imho. If you move a Karakas to the MD, you free up an additional SB slot. Even with 4x Obligator and 4x Displacer, I would have at least two copies of Karakas in the 75, just to be sure.
i am currently 3-0 with a similair list. the deck seems o-k.
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 mishras factory
1 karakas
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust
2 World Breaker
2 spatial contortion
@ Noloam_: How's the mana so far, considering that you cut two colored sources?
I'm not a fan completely cutting Karakas from the 75. Or an All is Dust number below 3.
What were your matches so far? And how did the list feel?
@ Noloam_: How's the mana so far, considering that you cut two colored sources?
I'm not a fan completely cutting Karakas from the 75. Or an All is Dust number below 3.
What were your matches so far? And how did the list feel?
oops i made a typo. i am playing 1 karakas main. i have never had problems with casting stuff so far.
i really dislike tapping the Crossroads and a ancient tomb to play a displacer (3 damage ;/)
hehehe yes the 2 or 3 all is dust is a personal preference i guess ^^
i playd against grixis delver, ant and some sort of UW fish deck.
this build seems very week against miracles game one. no thorns and de red dude, is not the spot you want te be in to
Based on what? I can see the loss of Factories hurting a bit, but my Wg build still crushes Miracles pre-board - even without Thorn.
yes i got to admit that the worldbreaker seems good. but when i walk into a turn 3 back to basics or bloodmoon, i will cry for my rachet bombs.
well the 3/1 haste dude just has no good targets. and thorn is just insane vs miracles pre- and postboard.
ended 4-1 now, won 2-0 from miracles. he did not appreciate the thorns postboard
lost 0-2 to storm. playing this deck against storm really felt silly. im back to my collorless build for sure ^^
Question for those of you that have played this deck against different archetypes;
When you lose (if you even lose) what decks and to what specific cards are you having issues?
The primary ways I see Eldrazi lose are:
- Big dudes. Stuff like Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Gurmag Angler, et cetera. match up rather well against the ground assault and once a deck heavy on such creatures gets past the initial manahump, they can generally produce enough value to take it home. Dismember helps a lot against such stuff of course.
- Nonbasic hate/mana disruption. Be it Price of Progress, Blood Moon, Back to Basics or more commonly just Wasteland backed up by threats + Daze, Vial or Loam, the manabase is certainly an achilles' heel that can occasionally be exploited.
- Removal. Chalice makes it easier by turning off StP but some decks pack sizable amounts of removal not subject to Chalice, and Chalice isn't always in play anyways. Decks like Shardless can grind on this front rather well, and when Miracles wins it's often on the back of Terminuses.
Occasionally, a combo-deck will outrace you too and there's rather little you can do about it; you already have TKS, Chalice and potentially Thorn/other Stax-pieces so you're close to as good in those match-ups as it gets and you should win the majority of the time. Sometimes they have the nuts though. Elves is notable in that they fold really hard to Chalice, but they have the means to gum up the board and if they can get rid of it, they can be really hard to contain unless you have something like a Jitte.
So the requirements are?
13 White
13 Red
10 Green
So:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Battlefield Forge
2 Karakas
2 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide
Doesn't that work?
(obviously lack of factories sucks - if you want to run 2 factories, I guess you can still run 1 SSG. [-1 COT, -1 SSG, +1 Lotus Petal, -1 Battlefield Forge, +2 Factories]).
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