Specific to cheated fatties, Marit Lage, Infect, and True-Name Nemesis. I'd also bring it in versus any non-Grixis Delver as another way to kill a quick Delver, and as a way to gain life vs UR Delver/Burn. I agree as generic removal spell it's terrible. It's a tool for a specific purpose, but having outs to almost any situation is just my playstyle.Originally Posted by iostream
Sideboard plan was as follows:
Rest in Peace in vs Shardless, RUG Delver, Lands, any GY deck
Winter Orb in vs Miracles, 12 Post
Containment Priest in vs any midrange deck with creatures, S&T decks, GY decks, Elves
Disenchant in vs Shardless, S&T Decks, Blood Moon Decks, Miracles, Infect
Blessed Alliance in vs Reanimator, Burn, non-Grixis Delver, Merfolk, any TNN deck, Lands, Infect
Spatial Contortion in vs Delver, D&T, Elves, Infect
Elspeth in vs midrange decks, Miracles, Eldrazi
Declaration in Stone in vs midrange creature decks, Storm, Eldrazi, Reanimator, Dredge, Grixis Delver
With 4 Caverns and 4 Mox Diamonds, it's really not hard to cast Pontiff. It's not just for D&T though. I mainly had it to get rid of True-Names but I'll board it in against token generating decks or even against storm to hedge against Empty the Warrens. Also displacing Pontiff is pretty much the nuts against those decks that love going wide.
Speaking about Orzhov Pontiff and Blessed Alliance let me think about the new commander card (for soldiers):
Selfless Squire - seems like a nice sideboard catch, it can be a nice blowout if you answer with a lethal counterattack.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Squire seems a bit mana-heavy for the effect? Maybe I'm wrong.
EunB, pocari79: How were your experiences with Sanctum Prelate? I've been pretty skeptical myself based on testing it in small local venues, but I'd like to hear how it performed in an actual high-level tournament.
I agree. It's an interesting lock with Displacer, but seems win-more as Displacer can outright win games on its own.
I love it. It single-handedly won me multiple games against Grixis Delver. It's also okay vs D&T or Miracles, and it's the #1 card I want to see vs Omni-Sneak. It's much easier to get out early on 2 vs Lands to shut them off of Loam/Pfire and postboard they can't KGrip it.EunB, pocari79: How were your experiences with Sanctum Prelate? I've been pretty skeptical myself based on testing it in small local venues, but I'd like to hear how it performed in an actual high-level tournament.
In my opinion it is a non-negotiable maindeck card. 2-of feels right.
I like it a lot. It makes your combo matchups a lot better and gives you an extra edge against control matchups. Just make sure to not attack with it so it doesn't get blocked by a flash Snapcaster Mage. Also if you get Displacer with Sanctum, you can start blanking different CC on demand which is pretty nice.
Interesting! I suppose I should give the card a second chance. Thank you both for your quick replies.
Toward pocari79's earlier gripe about Warping Wail, I was arguing that it was kind of a necessary evil, but now I wonder if you can play without any maindeck removal and just play mana, disruptive creatures, and Chalices. Theoretically, in my list, Prelate would do a lot of the work that Warping Wail's counterspell mode does, and you already have an extra way to interact with creatures relative to others' lists with the Priest+Displacer combo.
I also want to comment about Containment Priest, which I've argued is a good maindeck card, but really hasn't stimulated much discussion here. To reiterate:
1) It synergizes well in a number of ways (Priest + Displacer obviously, Priest + Jailer means they don't get their creature back even if they hit you, you're always happy to crew Copter with Priest).
2) It's acceptable in game 1 versus a lot of decks just as a flash bear; starting some sideboard cards over it in game 1, especially cards that can't pressure your opponent directly, can cause you to run out of gas.
3) It's good versus two of the most popular combo decks (Sneak/Show, Reanimator), and a solid tool against D+T's flicker/Vial shenanigans. BR Reanimator and D+T are likely to become a little more popular following their strong showings at the Eternal Weekends, so I think Priest is well positioned in general.
It's been good for me, and I encourage you all to at least test the card in the maindeck.
I'll test this in the coming weeks to see how much Wail was really needed. It's possible this is a bad idea:
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Palace Jailer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Reality Smasher
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Karakas
6 Plains
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
2 Armageddon
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Key to the City
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Regarding Warping Wail -- I think it's a perfect catchall and am high on it. I consider even going up to 3 in the main. There are many relevant sorceries to counter, but the main reason I like it is early maindeck removal. Young Pyromancer, Unflipped Delver, Deathrite, and most importantly, Stoneforge. Early Batterskull is such a pain to deal with.
As for Containment Priest in the main, I don't dislike it since I side it in in a lot of matchups, but I'd say it's meta dependent. Versus some pretty big players like Miracles it's just a do-nothing card so that's what's stopping me. Also be careful against just running it out vs D&T since they can use their Flickerwisps to exile your creatures.
I also enjoy Wail's versatility, but I'm not sure it's the strongest option. Basically, there are two ways in which I feel Warping Wail falls short.
First, the removal mode is useful, but narrow. I frequently find myself in situations where I'm stuck with a Wail in hand versus Serra Avenger or True-Name or whatever, and even though Wail has some other target, the thing which is killing me isn't one of them.
Second, it just doesn't feel like it meshes with the overall game plan for the first few turns. What the deck is good at is getting out ahead of the opponent; you want to slam disruptive creatures as fast as you can. Conversely, the deck kind of sucks when you're playing from behind. When your opponent already has developed their board or mana, both Thalias look much weaker. Thought-Knot Seer is at its best on turn 2. And so on. Taking an early turn off for a removal spell or holding up countermagic just feels like you're giving up some initiative, and I don't know if it's too much of a sacrifice. For instance, it usually feels "wrong" to me to spend my first or second turn tapping out to remove a Deathrite Shaman, and if the Wail ends up getting countered, I feel really behind. What I'm wondering is if it's better to try and fight their threat by presenting more of your own threats. i.e. try to overpower them instead of reacting.
Replacing Wail with Prelate in my list covers the "counter target sorcery" mode in a way that progresses your board, but I admit that not having access to a bona-fide removal spell might be too dangerous. I just want to see firsthand how much work Wail is really doing.
Don't have anything to add really to the discussion of Priest; it's certainly better in some metas than others. I agree that not shooting yourself in the foot is a real concern. You have to show some care against decks where it can be used against you.
Ok everyone, this has been sitting on my HD for sometime but wanted to refine it with recent additions etc. and clean it up for the primer. Now that my exams are done, here it is. Feedback, feedback, feedback would be appreciated and I'll modify the primer with any additions for card choices, anythings I should cut or any sample decklists people want to contribute. Matchup analysis would also be nice, though I'll get on to that in due time. Also, should have a banner at some stage too. But for now, let's make this as refined as possible. Feel free to PM me about it.
Here it is!
History
“Tale as old as time
True as it can be…”
Combining white cards with a Sol Land mana base has been a long tradition of Legacy, with decks such as white Stax and Angel Stompy existing at the beginning of the format to cripple opponents with prison cards like Chalice of the Void and then finishing them off with Exalted Angel. Furthermore, Death & Taxes has been a mainstay of the Legacy format with its disruptive suite of small creatures that beat down the opponent, and has influenced white prison decks since its inception. This deck, whatever one wants to call it, is a successor to these shells in the modern Legacy format.
Two particular sets provided this shell with its tools to become a metagame contender.
Oath of the Gatewatch rocketed into the format with the core of the Eldrazi deck making incredible waves across Modern (leading to Eye of Ugin’s banning there) and, after Pro Tour Oath of Gatewatch’s dust settled, in Legacy, with Eldrazi Stompy debuting in the limelight of the SCG Open in Philadelphia on February 27, 2015. The deck immediately became a mainstay of the Legacy format, surprising for a Stompy deck, and although powerful, suffered from a few problems afterwards – susceptibility to mana denial due to its fragile mana base, middling filler cards such as Matter Reshaper and Endless One, and difficulties at breaking through certain board stalls. The later addition of Eldrazi Displacer certainly aided in remedying some of these problems, but created unfortunate sacrifices in the mana base and some inconsistency. Overall, the Eldrazi Stompy archetype coalesced into most popularly pure colourless versions with a relatively stagnant threat suite, leaning hard on the quality of Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher, along with the lock of Chalice of the Void, to win. It nonetheless remained a Tier 1 contender.
In Vintage, however, was innovation in the archetype found. The Power Nine Challenge of MtGO on May 28th, 2015 found itself accommodating three “White Eldrazi” lists in its Top 8. These lists eschewed the expected partnership of Workshops and Eldrazi and instead looked towards… Basic Plains?!
Creatures: (25)
3 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Reality Smasher
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Vryn Wingmare
Non-Creature Spells: (12)
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands: (23)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Karakas
5 Plains
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
Sideboard: (15)
1 Containment Priest
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 City of Traitors
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Trinisphere
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is the most important addition to this list, and certainly “Thalia plus Eldrazi” is the inspiration for the subsequent Legacy shell. The hallmark creature of many of Legacy’s white, creature-based decks such as Death & Taxes and Maverick, Eldrazi can also borrow as an excellent early play to cripple cantripping opponents or combo decks alike while continuing to cast its powerful beatsticks unhindered, as long as the mana base is tweaked to accommodate her. She is an excellent standalone threat many times better than Matter Reshaper and Mimic who, despite being synergistic, are often just creatures with power and toughness and little disruptive potential, which is incredibly important in the Legacy format. Other Death & Taxes favourites Phyrexian Revoker and Containment Priest also were to become staples within the Legacy edition of White Eldrazi, their interactions with Eldrazi Displacer of particular note.
The mana base is also important to consider – a pile of basic Plains, some Karakas, Ancient Tombs, Eldrazi Temple, Wastelands and no Eye of Ugin. Eye, previously seen as the most crucial land in Eldrazi, limits the deck building options available, as playing non-Eldrazi has a significant cost, as Eye adds essentially no mana for them. Once gone the deck is free to alter its threat suite to be more robust, as well as incorporate mana which is less prone to disruption from Wasteland or Blood Moon in the form of basic lands. The mana base underpins the deck’s philosophy: be less prone to mana disruption than typical Eldrazi, and be able to cast higher quality threats.
Eldritch Moon brought the deck its next biggest boon: Thalia, Heretic Cathar. Although somewhat fair when cast on the third turn (as it is done in typical Death & Taxes shells), if accelerated out early via Sol Lands or mana acceleration, Thalia, Heretic Cathar can force opponents to be unable to interact for at least a few turns and stress their mana further in addition to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Furthermore, her forcing of creatures to come into play tapped perfectly complements the game plan of aggressively finishing the opponent off with large creatures, that can now attack unhindered thanks to her.
Subsequent 5-0s on Magic Online after Eldritch Moon’s release thanks to players such as Disgruntled_Elk and romariovidal then occurred, touting the list below:
Lands: (26)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Caves of Koilos
3 City of Traitors
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
1 Crystal Vein
3 Plains
4 Wasteland
Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures: (22)
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Warping Wail
Numbers were refined and other cards investigated, and we come now to a core of cards that make up this deck.
But what do we call it?
Although I particularly like names such as “White Stompy” or “White Eldrazi” since these are quite plainly descriptive, “Thalia Stompy”, “Thalia Tribal” and “Death & Staxes” have been thrown around. Of these flavourful names though, the most descriptive and fitting one I feel is:
“Tale as old as time
Song as old as rhyme…”
Beauty and the Beast.
Thalia and Eldrazi.
Whatever you want to call this deck, this combination of lock pieces (in both creature and non-creature form), explosive mana and effective attackers certainly is, and will be, a powerful force to be reckoned with in the modern Legacy metagame.
Main Deck
Creatures
Disruptive Creatures
These creatures, although most are very serviceable in combat, are primarily within the deck to disrupt the opponent, by either taxing their mana or being precision tools to prevent the opponent from casting or utilising certain spells.
“Look there she goes a girl who's strange but special
A most peculiar mademoiselle”
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
There is little to be said about Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and how powerful she is within the Legacy format. She is typically lights out for many combo decks, particularly Storm, when she lands on the second turn, her tax being a difficult mountain for their spell chains to overcome. However, the texture of the Legacy format emphasises the strength of cantrips such as Brainstorm and Ponder as efficient and powerful card selection – but Thalia makes these effective no longer. Combining her with other mana denial elements she can actually lock certain opponents out from casting any spells at all, leaving them helpless as your first striker and others take them from twenty to zero. However, she can be quite a liability against other decks that are creature-dense, and her status as a Legendary creature sometimes causes awkward hands. Also note that the few non-creature spells we play are taxed too, which can occasionally cause issues.
Play 3-4.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar
The other, newer, Thalia, had difficulties initially finding a place within the Legacy format, but here does she truly shine. In a format dominated by fetchlands (that often fetch non-basic lands), Thalia, Heretic Cathar, if she hits the battlefield early enough, which this deck is well equipped to do, can cause the opponent to be set back at least a whole turn, and potentially two. She combines well with our other mana denials elements too, to set the opponent even further back. Furthermore, she is excellent within combat, thanks to her second line of text allowing her to cut through potential blockers which come into play tapped; though just being a 3/2 first striker is also very reasonable. Her second ability also can cause headaches for decks such as Elves, Reanimator and Sneak & Show. Again, her Legendary status can be frustrating, but having her in openers to accelerate out on turn one or two is important to utilise her full potential.
Play 3-4.
“So, you've come to stare at the beast, have you?”
Thought-Knot Seer
Thought-Knot Seer is by far the most powerful Eldrazi printed within Oath of the Gatewatch, and is one of the major payoffs for including Sol Lands and Eldrazi Temple within the mana base, allowing Seer to be deployed as early as turn two. Shredding away a card from the opponent’s hand is incredibly powerful at disrupting both fair and unfair opponents alike, and can often rip away the card that would save the opponent from the prison being imposed upon them. He is also incredibly difficult to kill, being resistant to both Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, some of the most commonly played removal spells of the format. His four power makes him excellent in combat too, attacking through most board states. There is little downside to this guy.
Play 4.
Phyrexian Revoker
A common addition in high numbers due to his ability to disable many of the powerful abilities within the format, such as Sensei’s Divining Top, Deathrite Shaman, Aether Vial and equipment, all of which can prove problematic for the deck. He also ensures that the deck has a smooth, lean curve, filling out the two drop slot nicely and castable off a single Sol Land (especially potent on the draw). However, in certain metagames his effect can be negligible, and numbers can be reduced.
Play 2-4.
Lodestone Golem
Lodestone adds essentially another Sphere effect, in addition to Thalia, to put the final nail in the coffin and ensure the opponent cannot function in combination with our mana denial. He also attacks very effectively, his five power representing a four turn clock alone. However, Lodestone’s susceptibility to Lightning Bolt can represent a big tempo loss, and his tax can be detrimental to the deployment of some of our own threats. Although a solid choice, additional Sol Lands are often required to support him, and certain higher cost threats must be excluded lest Golem make them even more difficult to cast.
Play 0-4, keeping in mind that certain concessions must be made to both the mana base and threats if included.
Other Options:
These are options to include for additional disruption elements if desired. Generally played as 2-ofs at maximum.
- Sanctum Prelate is an incredibly powerful option, as not only a redundant Chalice of the Void effect (which is often uncounterable thanks to Cavern of Souls) but also as a card to lock out whatever answer the opponent has ready to crawl out of the prison. However, she certainly requires boosted white sources for her 1WW mana cost – typically cutting into Sol Lands and reducing the deck’s explosiveness.
- Containment Priest hoses reanimation strategies, Sneak & Show, Aether Vial and Green Sun’s Zenith, but she does so much more. In combination with Eldrazi Displacer, Containment Priest gives the deck an incredible ability to push through problematic board stalls by creating a machine-gun for 2C. She is also serviceable as just a simple ambush viper at times. Can sometimes see play as a two-of main, but should certainly be part of the seventy-five somewhere.
- Vryn Wingmare fulfils a similar role to Lodestone as additional Sphere effects, and also has flying, which this deck significantly lacks. In a deck with fewer white sources than expected, however, Wingmare can be difficult to cast, with the mana base leaning hard on Cavern of Souls, which is generally set on Human or Eldrazi. Also, additional Sphere effects can be detrimental to casting the few non-creature spells in the deck, such as a timely piece of removal or equipment.
- Aven Mindcensor works similarly: a flying threat, poor synergy with Cavern of Souls and some amount of mana base disruption, though it can certainly easily be played around. Good against decks that require frequent searching though, such as Stoneblade decks, Storm, 12Post and Nic Fit.
- Spirit of the Labyrinth attacks cantripping decks effectively. A reasonably potent card that can be deployed on turn one with a piece of acceleration, but its lack of synergy with our Caverns and its fragile body makes it less serviceable as a choice.
- Leonin Arbiter fulfils a similar role to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Thalia, Heretic Cathar, being a powerful play possible on turn one that can really cripple the mana of an opponent. Unlike these though, Arbiter is an atrocious topdeck that has a weak body in combat and a negligible effect. Again, Cavern dissynergy is an issue too.
- Glowrider is like Wingmare except easily castable off Cavern… But his body is atrocious in combat and is similarly poor as a topdeck like Arbiter.
Utility Creatures and Beaters
These can be thought of as “fair” creatures (and, I know, some of these certainly can at times feel unfair), and by that I mean creatures that are primarily concerned with creature combat, whether it be due to their above-average power and toughness, or their significant abilities.
Eldrazi Displacer
Castable off Eldrazi Temple or a Sol Land plus a single white mana, Eldrazi Displacer looks very average initially, having a middling body as a 3/3 and an ability which seems like a cute bit of utility. However, Eldrazi Displacer is by far the deck’s saving grace in fair matchups, breaking up stalled board states by tapping down blockers, blinking other creatures in the deck away from removal or defending against a horde of attackers if flooding out (don’t forget, Eldrazi Temple pays for 2 of the mana required for his activation). He also has utility against certain combo decks, such as Sneak & Show or Reanimator, who rely on getting a huge threat into play.
He offers a lot of different tricks with our other creatures too:
- Blinking Thought-Knot Seer allows for control of the opponents hand, letting them draw from Seers trigger first and then snatching away whatever looks good.
- Blinking Phyrexian Revoker or Sanctum Prelate can shut down the opponent from casting spells or activating abilities at instant speed by changing what they’re set to.
- Any creature with an enters-the-battlefield effect becomes substantially more potent, retriggering with Displacer.
- Containment Priest in play makes Displacer become a machine-gun that permanently exiles opposing creatures – just remember not to target your own!
However, Displacer can be mediocre against combo unconcerned with getting creatures into play, and loses a lot of utility when drawn in multiples (additional copies are essentially just 3/3 vanillas).
Play 3-4.
Reality Smasher
Typically the top end of the deck’s curve, Reality Smasher, the hallmark four-of in Eldrazi Stompy, also makes a nice fit here, breaking through blockers, trampling in for the last points of damage and being an excellent topdeck to swing a race. However, unlike Eldrazi, the mana base has a bit more difficulty reaching that golden five mana for Smasher, and hence multiples can easily get stranded in opening hands, particularly if the deck is hit by some Wastelands. If playing Lodestone Golem, Reality Smasher becomes no longer an option, as a six mana Smasher is very difficult to get into play.
Play 0-3, potentially 4 if running at least ten Sol Lands (including Temple).
Stoneforge Mystic
Although not a Human, Stoneforge has proven herself to be an excellent Legacy card for any deck utilising white mana, and equipment synergises incredibly well with the many robust bodies in the deck to pick it up. Stoneforge does gravitate lists to be more controlling, however, instead of curving out and killing the opponent quickly, which certainly can be a liability in combo matchups (but a boon against fair matchups). As aforementioned the deck leans heavily on Cavern of Souls too, often leaving the deck struggling to activate Stoneforge’s ability with white mana. As such, having a heavier amount of Plains is important in lists using her.
Play 2-4, with 1 Batterskull and 1 Umezawa’s Jitte. She is also an excellent sideboard option.
Other Options:
Again, 1 or 2-ofs are standard issue for these inclusions.
- Palace Jailer is an excellent creature in midrange-control matchups, where boards can get clogged and Jailer can exile that Tarmogoyf gumming up the ground and ensure your Eldrazi keep attacking. He also synergises incredibly with Displacer and is great against fatty decks. Becoming the monarch is also a strong grind effect on a board where you are ahead or at parity (or against creature-light decks such as Miracles), though can be risky if playing against aggressive decks such as Delver variants. He also pushes into the higher region of the curve, requires double white and isn’t accelerated off Eldrazi Temple. Potential main deck or sideboard inclusion.
- Blade Splicer is another creature nicely synergistic with Eldrazi Displacer (creating a bunch of Golems) but is more significant in versions utilising Lodestone Golem. Golem’s body, which trades with a lot of Legacy threats, becomes much more threatening as a 5/3 first striker, slaying Tarmgoyfs and opposing Eldrazi attacking or defending. However, Splicer can be somewhat low impact on her own.
- Recruiter of the Guard is an option if one wants to take the deck in a more grindy, toolbox direction, generally replacing the fast beatdown endgame of Smasher. Our Sol Lands make it more castable than in other shells, and it synergises nicely with Displacer, getting a number of situational bullets, while also just being a tutor for our core of Thalias. It’s quite slow though, so I’d shy away from it.
- Vehicles such as Smuggler’s Copter, Fleetwheel Cruiser and Skysovereign, Consul Flagship have been up for consideration. The higher-end Vehicles tend to be taxed by Thalias, and are not recommended, though Copter comes down early and filters the draws of the deck very nicely, pitching useless Legends or Diamonds. However, Copter is quite a poor late-game topdeck despite its early game strength. Certainly as a one- or two-of it can be a consideration.
Non-Creature Spells
Lock Pieces
Chalice of the Void
Chalice of the Void is one of the deck’s most powerful turn one plays (alongside turn one Thalia), and is hallmark of any Ancient Tomb deck in Legacy. Cutting off all one mana spells, while not hindering us in the slightest, cripples so many of the cantrip-dense decks in the Legacy format. Also note that Chalice can be set on other modes too. Chalice on zero can do work against the trinkets of Storm, and Chalice on two can be very helpful in certain matchups while our two drops can still be cast through Cavern of Souls. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben also taxes Chalice, so remember a Chalice with X = 1 will cost three mana. Something to note. Chalice is the most potent card in so many Legacy matchups, but will often be an easy sideboard out in others, where a Chalice on 1 only hits a few cards.
Play 4.
Other Options:
There is little need for additional lock pieces in the deck as, other than Chalice, the rest of the locks are fulfilled via our creatures, such as the Thalias – that have the benefit of attacking the opponent to death, too. Nonetheless, there is potential other pieces that can be utilised if desired.
- Trinisphere can be accelerated out on turn one with a Sol Land and piece of accelration, and like in other Stompy decks past it can ruin many opponents from playing Magic at all. However, Trinisphere interacts poorly with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (essentially neutering her), who does a good enough job of taxing the opponent’s spells anyway.
- Crucible of Worlds is an exciting old-school favourite, that can allow the Wasteland-locking of your opponent. It also synergises very nicely with Mox Diamond, to give that card essentially no downside. However, in certain situations it can be a bit low-impact, especially since most lists will not be using man-lands.
- Suppression Field is similar to Leonin Arbiter in some ways, neutering fetchlands, but also can screw over other activated abilities. It doesn’t attack and is an incredibly poor topdeck, though.
- Tangle Wire, the Vintage powerhouse, is pretty exciting in this list as once you are ahead on board a Wire can completely lock out the opponent – especially with Thalia, Heretic Cathar. If you’re behind though, Wire can look very mediocre, especially if your other lock pieces have been broken apart. A speculative choice.
Removal
Dismember
Dismember is the easiest removal to slot in the deck. Costing one mana and four life to kill almost anything in the format, while actually having a converted mana cost of three to get around Chalice makes it an easy shoe-in. However, the life loss can add up (especially with Ancient Tomb) so use sparingly. A black mana for it can be cast off Mox Diamond or Lotus Petal, if needed.
Play 0-2.
Warping Wail
Although primarily used for its removal mode against small creatures such as Deathrite Shaman and Stoneforge Mystic, Warping Wail offers further utility to the deck. Countering sorceries can range from countering a simple Ponder to countering a combo spell such as Show and Tell or Reanimate, and the Scion created can offer bodies to sacrifice to Liliana of the Veil, the ability to ramp into larger threats like Reality Smasher. It also provides colourless mana when under a Blood Moon, which is very useful to make your Seers castable again. A very flexible spell.
Play 1-2.
Umezawa’s Jitte
Although I mentioned Jitte with Stoneforge Mystic, as a standalone card Jitte is very serviceable as a flexible piece of equipment for killing small creatures, making our bevy of bodies incredibly threatening and gaining life if needed. Note Jitte’s synergy with first strikers – they will deal first strike damage and get counters before opposing creatures deal damage to them – allowing Jitte to pump up our creature or shrink opposing ones to win combat. Jitte of course gets worse in multiples as a Legendary piece of equipment, and also can be a pretty miserable topdeck when behind and have no creatures to equip to.
Play 0-2.
Other Options:
I will outline here potential broad, main deck removal spells; note that these, and more narrow removal spells, are also options for the Sideboard.
- Declaration in Stone is a relative newcomer, as a removal spell that gets around Chalice and unconditionally removes any creature desired – and is especially great against tokens. However, the Clue leftover means the opponent won’t be behind on cards, but this can be remedied by our incredibly aggressive deck giving them no time to crack it. Somewhat maindeckable, but certainly a sideboard consideration.
- Oblivion Ring is the old standard, and, although fine, suffers now against Abrupt Decay which can blow you out. It’s also a little mana intensive. Still flexible enough to warrant some main deck slots if desired, as it can unconditionally deal with creatures and any other weird permanent that may pop up.
- Council's Judgment is the new Oblivion Ring, and is another great option for the main deck or sideboard. Not only does it remove problematic non-land permanents, but it also gets around protection effects (read: True-Name Nemesis). Unfortunately, the mana cost can be quite severe, since a 1WW spell that is non-Human can be tough to accomplish on time.
Acceleration
Acceleration ensures that we can bring our devastating plays as early as possible. There are two primary options – choose one or the either. If you use both, expect your deck to be incredibly high-variance.
Mox Diamond
Diamond is great in our deck that generally has a high land count, allowing for some explosive starts with up to three mana on turn one. More importantly though, it is a stable white source in our deck that can often have coloured mana troubles. Diamond is a very poor topdeck in the lategame though, being essentially a brick. Also note it is exposed to cards like Phyrexian Revoker and Abrupt Decay, so be aware that you can get suddenly Stone Rained.
Play 3-4.
Lotus Petal
Lotus Petal is another viable option. Although not allowing for a consistent white source over the course of many turns, it does not require the discarding of a land for it to function, and it also functions as a piece of mana if topdecked. Its one-time burst of mana can lead to some blowouts if what you cast off it is countered though, and it also generally means that cards with double-white in their mana cost are harder to cast (as generally Petal will be blown early as a coloured mana source).
Play 3-4.
Lands
The deck is only possible via its mana base, which combines the older Sol Lands from Tempest block with more modern additions such as Eldrazi Temple to accelerate out threats faster than expected. It is also relatively robust, utilising basic lands, and can also disrupt opposing mana.
Ancient Tomb
Probably the most pivotal land in the deck, Ancient Tomb has been fuelling some powerful prison strategies in Legacy since its inception, and this is no different. Powering out turn one Chalice or turn one Thalia, Heretic Cathar is excellent. The life loss can add up though, so try to tap it as little as possible.
Play 4.
Eldrazi Temple
The other pseudo-Sol Land in the deck, this accelerates out Displacer and Seer very quickly with essentially no downside – otherwise it’s just a land that taps for colourless mana and still casts our other spells. Note that this can of course fuel Displacer’s ability too. The more Eldrazi you play (and generally, you’ll be playing a bunch) the more you’ll want this land, though if you’re going more white-intensive this is a trimmable land.
Play 3-4.
Cavern of Souls
Cavern of Souls is one of the other lynchpin lands of the deck, making our high-curve threats not cause us to get tempoed out, as we can make them uncounterable. It is generally set to either Human or Eldrazi, and hence including non-Human or Eldrazi creatures can put a strain on these and make the mana a bit difficult, especially if Cavern is being used as a coloured source. Also note that it can, of course, tap for colourless mana for Seer and Smasher, but if this is the only colourless source for your Eldrazi it will not make them uncounterable (as you’re not using Cavern’s first mana ability).
Play 4.
Wasteland
With the Thalias Wasteland becomes incredibly powerful at preventing the opposition from doing anything, as their mana becomes incredibly strained. Also great for killing utility lands. Unlike regular Eldrazi, which is often a pretty poor Wasteland deck (due to it often tapping for mana due to the deck’s higher curve), our leaner curve and more disruptive creatures makes it a great choice in our list. Again, if you need more white sources though this is a place to trim too, though it’s not recommended.
Play 3-4.
City of Traitors
A typical lynchpin of Stompy shells, City of Traitors is also excellent in these lists. However, since it can be somewhat unstable at times, compared to Tombs or Temples, running a full set is generally not recommended unless you want to go very all-in. If in need of additional white sources Cities can also be entirely cut, reducing explosiveness but increasing the consistency one can cast their spells.
Play 0-2.
Karakas
One of the best mono-white utility lands ever printed, we have two of our primary threats protectable at very little cost. Also note that the first striking Thalias can deal first strike damage and then be bounced back to essentially Fog attacks or do some other combat tricks. Karakas is also one of our best lands against decks such as Reanimator or Sneak & Show, where this timely land can bounce one of their monsters and undo all their hard work. Having pure white sources that are Wastelandable is a cost though, and being Legendary means you don’t want too many.
Run 2-3.
Plains
Basic Plains is one of the most powerful lands in Legacy, as Death & Taxes has continued to prove to us. Having stable mana sources that can’t be Wastelanded is excellent in a deck that can be as mana-hungry as this one. It also makes the deck much more impervious to Blood Moon, as only Seer and Smasher are locked out from being cast, as long as a basic Plains is in play. The number played will largely depend on how white-intensive your threat suite is – the more creatures with double-white in their mana cost, the more Plains you’ll want and the more you’ll want to cut away colourless lands.
Other Options:
Often one-ofs or two-ofs that can fill out utility slots in the mana base or replace certain core lands depending on the deckbuilding requirements.
- Horizon Canopy can be painful, along with Tombs, but in the late game Canopy is an excellent card to mitigate flooding.
- Caves of Koilos can act as additional white sources, but can also cast or activate our Eldrazi. It is Wastelandable and is a white source that gets cut off by Blood Moon though, so be careful. Generally we have enough colourless sources to cast our Eldrazi anyway.
- Crystal Vein is another Sol Land options. An excellent budget option over City of Traitors that will actually be better in certain situations, since it can be reused as a generic colourless source. However, City is generally better in this slot.
- Mishra’s Factory is the best man land ever printed, and can help pressure opposing control decks and wear equipment lying around nicely. It also is another colourless source for our Eldrazi. The slots are pretty tight in terms of colourless lands already though, and finding room for some of these is a little bit of a luxury.
- Ghost Quarter is another colourless utility land. If you want a fifth Wasteland, it’s a great choice, as many Legacy decks don’t have any basic lands anyway. Also great if running Crucible. But again, slots are tight.
- Sea Gate Wreckage is a nice card for long matchups, like Miracles, where we can often end up empty handed with a lot of mana. This let's us rebuild, but again, takes up precious coloured mana source slots.
Sideboard
Creature Removal
- Swords to Plowshares is the best white removal spell, period. However, it conflicts with our game plan of Chalice of the Void. However, in certain matchups, such as against BGx or Death & Taxes, Chalice is very mediocre and cuttable, and having strong removal like Plow to bring in is well-appreciated. Against Delver decks though, where more removal is desired but Chalice is also strong, sideboard Plows does create dissynergy in the seventy-five.
- Spatial Contortion is a great option against Delver decks, particularly Grixis, as well as against any other small creature decks. We can keep in our Chalices while still being able to easily kill a Delver poking us to death.
- Blessed Alliance’s sacrifice effect is very valuable, eliminating problematic creatures like True-Name Nemesis or Progenitus that are usually untargetable. It can also be easily escalated thanks to our abundance of mana, acting as a combat trick and a lifegain spell too.
- Valorous Stance is strong against Tarmgoyfs but more particularly Eldrazi, where Stance kills the majority of threats you care about there. It can also be a combat trick. Like Blessed Alliance its flexibility is appreciated, though Stance is a bit narrow.
- Holy Light is the white -1/-1 effect. Although very costly (especially with a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in play), it can deal with True-Names and the Elves of the world if needed. Our Sol Land mana base makes it a bit more easily castable too.
- Ratchet Bomb is another great, flexible card that can sweep away not only creatures (particularly tokens) but also other annoying permanents. Beware of blowing your own Chalice, Diamonds or creatures though, when blowing up tokens.
Artifact/Enchantment Destruction
- Disenchant is the classic, and is great at blowing up threatening equipment mid-combat or snagging the weird enchantment or artifacts people will throw at you (like Moat or Ensnaring Bridge). I’d always run at least one in the seventy-five.
- War Priest of Thune only deals with enchantments, but is uncounterable off Cavern of Souls set to Human.
- Devout Witness does not kill artifacts or enchantments immediately, but can machine-gun down annoying permanents while you pitch lands or other low-impact cards once you untap with it. Again, it’s uncounterable off Cavern too.
- Leonin Relic-Warder has a strict mana cost due to it being non-human, but can do some good work if you want a Disenchant effect on a creature. Particularly useful if tutorable.
Graveyard Hate
- Rest in Peace is perhaps the best graveyard hate ever printed. Hosing both fair matchups relying on Tarmgoyfs and Deathrites, while also hosing the Dredge and Reanimators of the world. Run at least two in your seventy-five.
- Faerie Macabre is a one-shot exile effect (getting around Chalice and being uncounterable) that can be decent to supplement our strong gravehate choices.
- Tormod’s Crypt is generally mediocre compared to our other options, but it can certainly get out earlier than things such as RiP and Priest, which may be too slow in certain metagames.
Combo Hate
Most of the lock pieces mentioned in the main deck section can be utilised as sideboard combo hate slots. However, more dedicated pieces, particularly against Storm, can be found in the sideboard.
- Mindbreak Trap functions as effective disruption against Storm-based combo. Many combo decks have an abundance of ways to beat our permanent-based disruption post-board, so having additional “counterspell”-based disruption diversifies our effects. Also ensures we aren’t soft to decks like Belcher or Oops, All Spells.
- Thorn of Amethyst can be brought down on turn one off a Sol Land and similarly cripple like Chalice. This is important to get under discard on the play. However, it is just another piece of permanent-based hate that can be Decayed, bounced etc. It’s still a reasonable option.
- Ethersworn Canonist, after Thalia, is the premier anti-Storm hatebear. Unlike Thorn or Trap though it will typically come down on turn two, but it does attack in and have synergy with Cavern. Not a bad choice.
Fair Trumps
These cards are key as haymakers in the late game that generate some form of card advantage or are threats that are incredibly difficult to kill. They are typically only strong against fair opponents and too slow against combo.
- Mangara of Corondor, the Death & Taxes poster child, has some nice utility in this deck. Although once again double white can be an issue, Mangara + Displacer/Karakas can take over boardstates or just be a recurring Stone Rain.
- Angels, ala those featured in Angel Stompy, can be utilised as top-end threats to fly over stalled boards. Although miserable against combo decks, they help crush fair matchups, particularly against BGx variants. Gisela, the Broken Blade and Baneslayer Angel (among others) are potential inclusions. Restoration Angel is easy on the mana, synergises nicely with ETB effects, saves our creatures from removal and is a great 3/4 flier to block and kill Delvers.
- Powerful mana denial haymakers like Winter Orb or even Armageddon/Cataclysm can be used to break open matchups against control decks like Miracles. All we need to do is get ahead on board and then bust those lands. Orb in particular synergises very nicely with our Sol Lands and Mox Diamond.
- Planeswalker bombs like Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar can break open control matchups too. Knight-Errant is great at letting our beaters fly over stalled boards or generate tokens when behind, while Gideon can anthem our team to win combat or just get in there himself.
- Endbringer, like in Eldrazi, is a powerful late-game bomb, acting essentially like an Eldrazi planeswalker. We cannot accelerate him out as fast as Eldrazi can, but he is very castable and is certainly an option. Coercive Portal can be used a late-game draw engine instead if you don’t want it to be prone to removal.
- Parallax Wave can be absurdly powerful in a few situations. It can demolish a stalled board to swing for the final points of damage, it can permanently exile creatures with Containment Priest, or, if all the Fading counters are removed, certain ETB effects of our creatures can also be re-triggered.
- Austere Command although ambitious in mana cost (especially with Thalia) can do a lot of powerful things, particularly against a deck like Miracles. Destroy Counterbalance, wrath your Mentor army and leave me with a Thought-Knot? Sounds great! Quite ambitious though, run as a one-of at most in your sideboard.
Other
- Worship can create some cringes for many of your opponents. Most of our creatures are difficult to remove, and hence Worship can lead to us being unable to lose in many matchups. We can mill out our opponent slowly with Displacer + Seer or hopefully somehow break through the board stall.
Splashes
Coming Soon
Sample Decklists
ChemicalBurns156's List
Creatures: (24)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Palace Jailer
2 Reality Smasher
Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
6 Plains
Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Containment Priest
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Palace Jailer
1 Batterskull
MD.Ghost's List
Creatures: (24)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
2 Palace Jailer
2 Reality Smasher
Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
6 Plains
1 City of Traitors
Sideboard: (15)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
Matthew Harper 09/11/16
Lands: (25)
2 Karakas
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
Creatures: (24)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Containment Priest
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Vryn Wingmare
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dismember
Sideboard: (15)
1 Armageddon
2 Disenchant
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Path to Exile
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Rest in Peace
1 Dismember
Michael Scheffenacker 09/11/16
Mikebrav 18/11/16
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/513212
Water_Wizard 17/11/16
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/512898
Matchups
Coming Soon
Coverage
White Stompy vs. Affinity
@2:02
https://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/v/90324134
WR Stompy on Kent Ketter's Hot Takes
https://www.cardhoarder.com/content/...-hateful-8-191
WR Stompy (Bobby Birmingham) vs. Shardless BUG (Jonathan Orr)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNEAlvPr5SY
Last edited by ChemicalBurns; 11-19-2016 at 06:43 AM.
Bobby Birmingham currently on scg feature match 10-2 with FTK version
Good news for us, any more news how he's going now?
@ChemicalBurns great job !
1) Fair Creatures -> would rather name them utility and beater creatures or utility since non of them are "fair" we use best available cards, not fair :-)
2) To sb options didnt included -> Council's Judgement and ... still in testing but can be our "Cataclysm" in many matchups as 1 or 2 of Austere Command - costly but works very nice. killing all opponent creatures and vial, or Mentor and Tokens with B2B/Moon/CB, but still keeping Smasher/Golem/TKS is mostly a game.
After 10-2 he loses to:
Birmingham, Bobby [US] vs.Lost 0-2 Kassis, Eli,
Birmingham, Bobby [US] vs. Lost 0-2 Stagno, Christopher,
Birmingham, Bobby [US] Lost 0-2 Yu, Jarvis
@Update Bobby Birmingham after 15 round has 30 points.. so 10-5-0.
I think the feature match showcased why Jailer is typically much better than FTK. The 5/6 goyf that won the game would've been handled easily by Jailer, but instead he was stuck with FTK rotting in hand. Also, the inability to cast FTK onto an empty board makes it lose a lot of stock IMO. Monarch drawing him out of his mana-flood in g3 would've also been useful. To a lesser extent, Smuggler's Copter would have also mitigated the g3 flood. To be fair, though, the Hymn sniping his two best cards was also a factor. Tough beats and tougher that he didn't win another match after the great 10-2 start. Hopefully he knows about this thread and will share his experience.
edit: unrelated, but has anyone tested out Sea-Gate Wreckage at all? I had it as a 1-of for a while in testing but never actually drew it and cut it for a City when I upped my curve.
Right! 10:2 might sound nice, but the Kavu plan is terrible... no need to implement that tech in current decklist since Palace Jailer is much stronger in most cases, doesnt need a splash, easier to protect with cavern and the biggest upside: solves the issue with big creatures like gofy, angler, smasher etc. Kavu has no advantage vs Shardless and we play Eldrazi & Taxes because we wan't a better Shardless Matchup than colorless Eldrazi etc.
I watched the stream and it showed clearly why Kavu is bad - on another Side his Sideboard was also really bad. Entering a big tournament without a way to fight Moat (see Miracle Top8) or stuff like Ensnaring Bridge sounds not right. Bobbys Sideboard was overloaded with answers vs creatures (and in this case it was not build solid since Kavu can't shot down Gofy etc.) at my opinion he constructed the side really bad and after so many rounds you will also see some hard matchups and unlucky situations.
As i mentioned a lot, if you really want to play WR than it should be 1-2 Nahiri at your 75 pile of cards. Overall staying mono white is the more solid option and also leads to various builds.
@ChemicalBurns: Great Primer! Thanks
EDIT: My current list:
Creatures: (24)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
2 Palace Jailer
2 Reality Smasher
Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
6 Plains
1 City of Traitors
Sideboard: (15)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
currently testing Containment Priest Main and Stoneforge Side
EDIT 2nd:
List performed solid enough so far. Against Miracle i switched -2 C.Priest, -1 City, -1 Mox for +2 Disenchant, +1 Elspeth, +1 Batterskull This way you have some more powerfull mid-lategame cards, answers for Moat and still maindeck answers like Jitte and Jailer for any Mentor-Stuff. I prefer Elspeth over Gideon because you get a) instant push if you have a creature on the field b) the ability to fly over Moat or Mentor Army // Gideon have better tokens, but the turn he enters the field he does nothing besides that (it is not common to use his -ability in most cases) and still can't fight Moat which is one of Miracles superior Answers vs Eldrazi and creature based decks like this. Batterskull was ok, besides Wear//Tear it is hard to remove and able to comeback on its own or push smaller stuff like Thalia, Revoker on the field. Batterskull performed also very well vs Colorless Eldrazi because it is big enough and able to equip one of your creatures to a gigantic vigilance attacker/blocker. One testgame i got one 8/8 TKS and paired with lifelink and vigilance it was a nightmare for my opponent.
Last edited by MD.Ghost; 11-10-2016 at 03:01 AM.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Good evening everyone!
The primer put together looks great! While I have been away for months due to work and such (got a bit burned out), I am coming back to the game and running leagues on MODO to test for the upcoming GP. I will be testing fairly extensively the old faithful version I have with 4 THC, 3 TGoT, and 4 Lodestone with 4 City of Traitors/3 Eldrazi Temple split. I'll definitely keep everyone up to date, but I am just excited to be playing again!
Went 4-2 yesterday at a local tournament was kind of disappointing. Played the same cards in the maindeck as I posted before in my previous posts, changed the sideboard to this:
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 SERENITY
2 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Trinisphere
I decided to try out the Serenity as it feels like there is a big uptick on hate cards like Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison, Humility, etc and if the opponent ever gets multiple copies in play, Disenchant isn't going to save you. I was thinking about Devout Witness as well but that requires it to live until your next turn and then you can only blow up one thing a turn so it might not be enough to save you.
Won against D&T, 4c Loam, Mentor Miracles, ANT and lost against Belcher, Entreat Miracles.
Things I took away from this tournament:
- I was able to kill 16 goblin tokens with a Pontiff. Hooray!
- Revoker can name Elvish and Simian Spirit Guides. I don't think it's something that most people think about but it saved me game 2 against belcher.
- I did board in both Disenchants and Serenities against Entreat Miracles thinking he had Moat as his sideboard card and was correct to do so, but then realized that having my anti-hate cards both at 2cc against a deck playing Counterbalance and Top is fairly bad. Maybe the Disenchants need to become something like Dismantling Blows? (yeah i know it sounds real awful. Why does K Grip have to be in green!?!?)
- I am considering Elspeth, Knight-Errant is another card to be a proactive card to fight against Moat. It's not 2cc and the ability to make your guys fly means you can still play your creatures into a Moat and when the Elspeth resolves, you'll have high powered attackers ready to go.
- I'm also considering Endbringers in the sideboard as well. The pinging is relevant against mentors and the ability to prevent creatures to attack or block is relevant against other decks as well. Only drawback is that 6cc might be too high.
It could be that I am over-reacting a bit on this and we don't need to change our sideboard that much, but I think it's something worth thinking about as Miracles felt like it was a really good matchup just a few weeks ago and now it's like a 50/50 matchup....
Hi,
I'm a D&T player, also trying to build this version of the deck as well to try out in my meta because it looks just so sweet. I was thinking of something along these lines:
Sweet stuff:
4x Lotus Petal
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Vryn Wingmare
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sanctum Prelate
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Flametongue Kavu
2x Reality Smasher
1x Batterskull
Lands:
2x Karakas
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Eldrazi Temple
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Wasteland
5x Plains
4x Battlefield Forge
Sideboard:
2x Pithing Needle
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Dismember
1x Flametongue Kavu
In my meta I expect 1-3 Reanimator (Classic/TinFins), 1-3 Miracles, 1-3 Eldrazi, 2-3 BUG (shardless / delver), 2-4 Storm (ANT/TES), 2-3 D&T, 1-4 S&T (Omnitell/Sneak&Show), 1-2 Elves, 1-3 Lands, 1-2 Maverick, 1-2 Merfolk, 1-2 Deathblade, 1-3 Grixis Delver, 1-2 All in Red (Sneak Attack), 1-2 Aluren, 1-2, Dredge (LED/Manaless), and some other random stuff.
Is this build adequate? Any thoughts or advice to share with a Thalia Stompy (or Eldrazi&Taxes) newbie?
1. Cut the red splash and play Palace Jailer instead of Flametongue Kavu. Jailer does everything Kavu does but better and instead of being dead against stuff like Miracles is acutally really really good there as it provides a form of card advantage they can rarely (if ever) interact with, all while smoothing out your mana base.
2. Do not play Batterskull without Stoneforge. Yes the deck does play some mana acceleration, but it does not play as much mana acceleration as the decks that can realistically play Batterskull without Stoneforge (Mono-Red Sneak or MUD come to mind). Without Stoneforge Batterskull in this shell will be very very slow, especially if you consider that you will have a Thalia in play to make it even more expensive. This problem is made even larger in your list as you have included Wingmare as well. Batterskull is exceptionally subpar if you have to pay 6 or 7 mana for it. Without a way to tutor for it, it is also simply too random to have a significant impact on your game plan.
3. Four Revoker is probably too many. You can free up 1-2 slots here.
4. I would strongly urge you to try out Eldrazi Displacer. It dominates any matchup against "fair decks" like Maverick, Loam, DnT. It is also a relevant piece of interaction against decks that try to cheat fatties into play like Reanimator or Sneak&Show in addition to providing the opportunity to abuse the comes into play effects of your creatures or simply countering a removal spell. DnT does not play it as it is another three drop and very mana intensive which does not mash well with the Rishadan Port plan of the deck. This deck does not have other mana sinks for the late game and with Eldrazi Temple (which you should play 4of btw) it can be easily used multiple times each turn.
5. Recent testing has made me very partial to running a split between Diamonds and Petals instead of one over the other. Drawing multiple Diamonds can be rough, but drawing too many Petals isn't good either, as the deck does not want only one-shot-acceleration but the ability to drop a threat turn after turn.
6. Try to include an answer to stuff like Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, Blood Moon and Back to Basics in your sideboard. Disenchant does look bad on paper, but only until you play against one of these cards and realize that you are basically just dead on board, especially against Bridge or Moat. DnT does play incidental answers like Flickerwhisp that this deck does not have, so you need to look elsewhere.
@pocari79
Serenity - why? Killing your own Chalice, Mox and/or Jitte sounds really bad - especially because all 3 of them are solid vs Miracle (you mentioned Blood Moon, Moat, Back to Basics).
Disenchant is really good, i would play 2 copies every time but if you wan't more stuff like this you can also think about:
Seal of Cleansing (better vs Omnitell, can be better if you play Thalia/Thorn after it or your W-Mana is gone, weak vs Wear//Tear or EE)
Aura of Silence (1WW not so easy but can slow down Artifact and enchantment from your opponent, especially with Thalia(s)&Waste etc.)
Mangara of Corondor (needs one turn, but better than Witness because: Combo with Displacer+Karakas and works well against all permanents and can be uncounterable with Cavern)
War Priest of Thune (sadly will not work vs Bridge but should be solid vs Miracle since it can be a combo with Displacer and is counterproof with Cavern)
Austere Command (really expensive but can clear the field pretty well against more than one nasty permanent and maybe some of your cards survive to beat the opponent to death)
EDIT: Council's Judgment like Aura of Silence and Planeswalker harder to cast with WW-Mana but can hit anything including nasty stuff like Planeswalker, big creatures or hard to remove cards like TNN. Catch all card.
Or you can look for planeswalker cards if you need more flexible answers. Elspeth, Knight-Errant works well against Moat and i run her in my current build.
I would at least recommend 3 cards vs Moat&Co (for me 2 Disenchant, 1 Elspeth), together with TKS (and you can flicker with Displacer to manage sorcery-speed draws like Moat) and Manadenial from Thalia(s) Waste you should be able to win against that stuff in most cases. It gets even better if you include some flying creatures like Vryn Wingmare, Smuggler’s Copter, Skysovereign, Consul Flagship or Aven Mindcensor.
R-Splash offers Nahiri and Pia and Kiran Nalaar // B-Splash offers Kaya, Ghost Assassin // G-Splash has Reclamation Sage = all will work against prison elements from your opponents, but as i listed above Mono White has more than enough tools to deal with that situations too.
------------
@tarmogoat
I agree with everthing Sisyphos posted - read the primer and follow up our discussion over all the cards and include Eldrazi Displacer (all 4!), some Palace Jailer (can we stop the bad Kavu idea, please) and build a sideboard with an answer to Moat/Moon/Bridge etc (which means, be prepared for stupid hate cards and punish opponents who wasted sideboard slots with that stuff)
Last edited by MD.Ghost; 11-15-2016 at 07:03 AM.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Against Miracles, I am already cutting at least 1-2 Mox Diamond after sideboard depending on what their build is and I would cut the Jitte as well if they are not playing Mentors. Sure it sucks to kill your own Chalice but I've found that my Chalices don't stick very often anymore against Miracles as the ones I play against all play multiple Engineered Explosives (some in the maindeck even) and Wear//Tears. So the chances of blowing up my own Chalice with Serenity is fairly low with how often Chalice gets blown up these days.
Also, Serenity is able to blow up all the hate cards your opponent have played and also delays them from playing another hate card while Serenity is in play. I like having Disenchant, but it does very little when you are facing down an Ensnaring Bridge/Moat and a Blood Moon at the same time.
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