Ofcourse, it happens that the shot is on the bottem of your deck but then again. By the time ur comboing u dont HAVE to find ur grapeshot. U will have so many little dudes on the field that u can easyly kill him with ur creatures.Originally Posted by kicks_422
You can Summoner's Pact for Kamahl. You can't for Mirror Entity. It's the same reason you're running Regal Force over Slate of Ancestry.
On that note, how about 1 Vigor? Makes your dudes Clasm-proof.
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Not t2 it doesn't. At least not reliably. It's like protecting yourself from cheap burn with Natural Spring.
T2 Vigor is possible but with that kind of mana, Weird Harvest or Regal Force would give you enough creatures to rebuild in a blitz next turn, and they are more useful if we're not facing sweepers. Or facing non-damage-based sweepers.
Last edited by Noman Peopled; 11-21-2008 at 08:43 AM.
Im using the maindeck u posted a few posts before the one i quoted above. But what did u got for the elves and the seizes??? I'd like to give them a spin :).
~Maarten
seems like a fun and interesting deck. apparently something similar won a pro-tour. pro-tour berlin 2008.
Hey guys! I have been testing this deck for a moment now and this is the list I have settled on so far.
Main Deck
13 Forest
1 Pendlehaven
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Wirewood symbiote
4 Llanwar elves
4 Fyndhorn elves
4 Birchlore ranger
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regal Force
4 Summoners Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Weird Harvest
1 Grapeshot
Now thats the main deck, and the side board would be meta dependant.
What strikes me as wild is that the deck pretty much looks like the ext. Deck with spirit guides, and is kind of balls out with no viridian shamans. But the deck is tuned so well ( I mean the ext version) that its hard to really make any significant changes. I mean I have tried alot of things: The acolyte dude that draws a card and has echo, sylvan messenger, Wood Elves, (which I really like) Quirion ranger, (who I hated so) Scryb Ranger, Devoted Druid, among other things, and its hard to get the deck to work any better. I havent tried cradle yet, but if i can get a few people to approve than I certainly will, and have also thought about bayous for thought seize out of the board (you would also change fyndhorn elves to elves of deep shadow.) It is just so hard to make a change that makes the deck better i guess. WOW.
Just to update this:
Quiron Ranger and Burning wish are absolutely awesome. Wish in particular is a simply inspired addition that serves as glimpses 5-8 and a win condition. Quiron is usually +2 mana, which is well above the curve.
What do you cut? Visionary and a Glimpse?
"Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"
visionaries, a glimpse, grapeshot, weird harvest/chord of calling are all expendable because you have burning wish.
Oh, and go buy a Mobilize for your sb. It's completely insane.
Burning Wish saves a lot of slots but is slow as balls in this deck if youre going for Glimpse. I didnt do enough testing to find anything conclusive but it was closer to a 'meh' than 'ZOMG amazing' than I had hoped, IIRC. Still a solid idea.
Quirion Ranger should be like a 5 of IMO.
info.ninja
What decklist with Burning Wish in it is better than the ones without?
And what does mobilize do for you and against what decks?
Wishing for Mobilize seems like a nice trick to generate a ton of mana. I'm not sold on moving Glimpse to the wishboard, that makes it more unlikely to set up a chain early in the game. But I'll try it, haven't got those Burning wishes for nothing :) The main issue I have with Burning wish is that it doesn't help you against Counterbalance or Devastating dreams.
"Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"
Instead of Burning Wish, it seems like the deck might be better off running blue for Mystical Tutor, and it can leave all four of the glimpses in the deck. The deck also seems relatively well-suited to running Pact of Negation, and then Brain Freeze and Stroke of Genius as win conditions.
I don't know about Pact. If for some reason you fizzle, it's useless, and it basically sucks if you're in beatdown mode, the possibility of which is one of the deck's selling points in Legacy. You could conceivably side them out; for siding in vs control, I'd probably try to strengthen the beatdown plan.
Stroke of Genius is interesting, as it can double as draw; as a win condition, however, it seems sub-par. Maybe a two-of so you can use the first one for draw? Should be tested, but not without some disruption md. Barring the draw aspect, Grapeshot will pretty much always be better. It can kill MM/Canonist, so it's not irrelevant itself.
I wouldn't use Brainfreeze, as you don't want to keep mana open and piggy-backing is the only thing it does significantly better than Grapeshot (unless you see a lot of Worship/Rule of Law, I guess).
If you have room for pact I'd go with maindeck Thoughtseize instead. Mystical tutor isn't so bad, but also slow. Spoils of the vault might do the same trick, but faster. Worldly tutor on the other hand might be worth trying, as it lets you untap Nettle sentinel and gets a creature on top (good for stringing creatures after glimpse). It won't net you a glimpse, but it could grab a Regal force.
As for the sideboard, wouldn't Leyline of lifeforce help against CB?
"Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"
LoL (wow great acronym) is also great vs. Chalice.
Plus, in a deck full of Elves, it isn't hard to cast if you find it later.
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Spoils seems worth pursuing at the very least (note: if that works out, screw WTutor). Using Gilt-leaf Palace instead of fetchies might not be a bad idea then, considering Thoughtseize is so much better than Duress.
I actually suggested Leyline in a thread somewhere (could've been the Souce but don't quote me on that), where it never quite caught on.
Look at it like this: versus control/aggro-control, Leyline doesn't protect the combo, just the beatdown plan (unless you happen to draw Regal Force which might not be a bad sideboard plan). And even that is questionable, as control can plausibly deal with a bunch Elves with devastating results if the Elf player can't refuel. I would certainly prefer discard or Shusher vs counters.
As for Chalice, Shusher arguably works better (protects your Glimpses, for one). Herald is probably worse but has the huge upside of being an Elf. Since even a mini-combo is a very valuable thing to have vs Chalice decks, I'm not sure I'd use it over Shusher, though. (Of course SPact opens some neat possibilities here.)
This is all just theory though; if anyone has some playtesting on this, I'd be happy to know.
Some number of Chrome moxen and/or Lotus Petals might be solid in this deck, has anyone tried testing them?
Yeah, they hurt consistency, especially if you run Thoughtseize.
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