[Deck] Next Level Painter

[holkenborg]

I just won a 14 man local tournament with this deck:

4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 tundra
2 tropical island
2 underground sea
2 island
1 academy ruins
1 seat of the synod

4 tarmogoyf
4 painter's servant
3 dark confidant
3 trinket mage

4 brainstorm
2 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
3 counterbalance
3 sensei's divining top
4 swords to plowshares
3 engineered explosives
2 grindstone

----

3 blue elemental blast
1 engineered explosives
2 misdirection
1 divert
1 counterbalance
1 relic of progenitus
2 tormod's crypt
1 pithing needle
1 krosan grip
2 path to exile


Round 1 - Pikula: 2-1
Round 2 - Zoo: 2-1
Round 3 - Aluren: 2-0
Round 4 - Aggro Loam: 2-0
Round 5 - Canadian Thresh: 2-1
Round 6 - Merfolk: 1-2

I no longer doubt the fragile manabase, because each color is only needed for 1 card: green for Goyf, white for StP and black for Confidant.

Also, Path to Exile was very good. Sided it in many times and he was very useful.

[Brushwagg]

I never understand why people include Seat of Synod. It should just be an Island or a Dual, because your not running TFK and need to pitch a usless artifact. If you need Trinket Mage to find it then your probably not winning that game anyway.

As far as the rest of list looks pretty good. I'm not sure about the mana base, but if your meta doesn't have alot of Wastelands in it then you can get away with it.

[holkenborg]

The Seat of the Synod is questionable indeed. But in the past I sometimes just needed that extra land to go off. And so far I have seldom lost because it is an artifact land rather than another.

And it is true that the manabase is fragile, but I still won from Pikula (Sinkholes, Wastelands, Vindicates), Aggro Loam (Wastelands, Devastating Dreams), but did lose against Merfolk. That was because of Jitte, not the mana base.

*Edit: My reasons for playing 4 colours anyway and taking the risk of getting manascrewed is that IMO this deck isn't good enough otherwise. IMO StP is needed to survive, Confidant is a master card draw engine and Tarmogoyf gives the beatdown gameplan (used a lot).

[Brushwagg]

The Seat of the Synod is questionable indeed. But in the past I sometimes just needed that extra land to go off. And so far I have seldom lost because it is an artifact land rather than another.

Not totally following here. Are you saying search it out wuth Trinket Mage? Why? That sets you back a turn where you could just play the combo out then win the next turn.

And it is true that the manabase is fragile, but I still won from Pikula (Sinkholes, Wastelands, Vindicates), Aggro Loam (Wastelands, Devastating Dreams), but did lose against Merfolk. That was because of Jitte, not the mana base.

I'm going to say you got lucky there. But if your going 4 color thats the risk you take. Stp is good but I'm finding Smother and Shackels, and E.E. to be more then enough to hold off my opponents till I win.

My reasons for playing 4 colours anyway and taking the risk of getting manascrewed is that IMO this deck isn't good enough otherwise

Not sure why you feel that way. Have you tested 3 colors? I mean this deck can win turn 3 or just win later in the game.

[holkenborg]

Not totally following here. Are you saying search it out wuth Trinket Mage? Why? That sets you back a turn where you could just play the combo out then win the next turn.

Yes, that is what I am saying. In the past I sometimes wished that I could search for a land rather than an artifact when playing Trinket Mage. So I agree that on paper it may look bad, but due to previous experiences I have added it. I can totally agree replacing it with another basic / fetch/ dual.

I'm going to say you got lucky there. But if your going 4 color thats the risk you take. Stp is good but I'm finding Smother and Shackels, and E.E. to be more then enough to hold off my opponents till I win.

Not sure why you feel that way. Have you tested 3 colors? I mean this deck can win turn 3 or just win later in the game.

I have tested the manabase and its not as fragile as it looks. Each splashed color is meant for 1 card only. At the time your opponent destroys your dual, you propably have played that specific card already. I haven't played this deck for a while. In fact, the last time was at Dutch nationals Nov 2008 (156 people) and I made it to top8. That was with a Ubg build. My (mental) notes were to add StP for Smother wasn't good enough.

If I would play this deck with less colors, I would play the Epic variant with Lim-Dul's Vault and go completely for the combo. Now, with 4 colors you can either go combo, control and aggressive. As long as you know your role in the match, there are enough cantrips to play that role.

So concluding: I am not saying that 4c is the best way to build this deck, but I do think the manabase is less fragile then it looks on paper. I have had no problems with getting the right colored mana, only with getting the right number of lands. And as along as that is the case, I prefer StP+Pte > Smother + Shackles.

[GoldenCid]

Here is a list i used last weekend to get a 5th place in a 23 players tournament:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins*
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
7 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Plains (2)
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
2 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [VI] Impulse*

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [WL] Gaea's Blessing
SB: 2 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 1 [U] Meekstone

(*) A copy of this card replace a BEB (which i used in the mentioned tournament)

Comments??

[holkenborg]

A few questions:

1. Did you not miss spot removal mainbord?
2. How did Propaganda work as a 2-off?
3. Did you ever get to cast Llawan, Cephalid Empress? Did it give you the game?

[GoldenCid]

A few questions:

1. Did you not miss spot removal mainbord?

Really in this tournament i run the blast and didn't get it. Indeed i didn't miss'em.

2. How did Propaganda work as a 2-off?

Great. It's simply enought.

3. Did you ever get to cast Llawan, Cephalid Empress? Did it give you the game?

Yes. But i admit that o was hard to do. It's not equal to win the game but it turns the game in your favour clearly.

[Brushwagg]

I've been doing some thinking. I'm going to start testing some Red mixed in the SB. With Zoo and Merfolk running rampant here's what I'm looking at.

// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
3 Island
1 Academy Ruins
2 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Painter's Servant
3 Dark Confidant

// Spells
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Smother
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Brainstorm
3 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Firespout
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

I don't like taking the hit on the mana base, but I did the best at keeping up the Island count.

I'm giving Firespout a try over Plague since it helps out in multiple matches, not just Tribal.

Pyroblast: Takes the place of Spellsnare.

[GoldenCid]

In the last post i saw some "rainbow" mana bases. I think that the best is a xU splash to bring stability or just mono U.

@Brushwagg: did you like firespout?? I find it...useless?

[Brushwagg]

The last Eli's I went got cut short for me. The day was terrible for me though.

Round 1: Won game 1 beacause my opponent was flooded. G2: I drew 11 plus lands. G3: Lost to Jitte on topped deck Krosan Grip to kill my Needle on Jitte.

Round 2: Lost to Ichorid: Drew terrible that round also.

[GoldenCid]

Coming back to the discussion i bring my Ug version:

/ Lands
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
6 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [A] Tropical Island
3 [DIS] Breeding Pool

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
2 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [CS] Counterbalance

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [WL] Gaea's Blessing
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip

Tarmopainter with C-top...less vulnerability to artifact hate and more control. I knok, breeding pool should be tropical (specially with tombs!!) but that's waht i have.
Llawan is an innovation, i thought in jitte but i 'm not sure.
What do you think??

[ryO!]

Coming back to the discussion i bring my Uw version:

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
5 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Plains (2)
2 [R] Tundra
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [FUT] Tolaria West

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
2 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [SC] Stifle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [WL] Gaea's Blessing
SB: 1 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 1 [U] Meekstone
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

I think side has the biggest problem.
Is there place for StP here??

you don't need Enlightened Tutor at all imo it s redundant with sensei/trinket which both do the job better. + even brainstorm.
here you go 3 place for stp.

[GoldenCid]

you don't need Enlightened Tutor at all imo it s redundant with sensei/trinket which both do the job better. + even brainstorm.
here you go 3 place for stp.

Do you reALLY that this deck needs other removal than EE??

[whitenihilist]

here is a B/U version I am working on, since I cannot afford goyfs and real Duals, here is what I have:

4 Island
4 Swamp
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Watery Grave
1 Academy Ruins

3 Diabolic Edict
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Spell Snare OR Smother
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
3 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Painter's Servant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tombstalker

2 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explsosive


sb:

4 Duress
4 Shackles
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitis

Any advice?

[Tangle.Wire]

Hi guys, beside Dreadstill and Canadian i just packed a Painter list last days, as a "friend" of me just picked up the idea to play Reap as a sort of Yaw. Will in this deck. Since i am not able to splash white for swords at the moment i came up with this list to play on further tournaments:

3 Painter
4 Tarmogoyf

1 Grindstone
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Senseis divining top

1 Life from the Loam
3 Counterbalance
3 Reap
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Intuition

1 Academy Ruins
3 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island
1 Forest
3 Island
6 Fetchland

For the Sideboard i am not sure what to pack right now, but i still miss something on the Mainboard, i think of cutting the pierces for daze as it saves me by dropping early painter/goyf/counterbalance but also the land drawback is pretty bad to go off as soon as possible.

[GoldenCid]

Compost > Reap??

[Tangle.Wire]

Not really, compost is good in drawing cards but reap let us recover multiple cards and is an instand, i already thought of compost in the sideboard but had no space for it.

[mort-]

Hi,

long time reader, first time poster here :) We got a legacy tournament coming up and I wanted to play something other then ANT. So - long story short - I looked up some painter decks and build my own version (mostly because I don't have Goyfs, so I had to think of something else).

For now, I'm testing the following list.

3x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island
1x Island
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Academy Ruins

4x Painter's Servant
4x Trinket Mage
4x Dark Confidant

3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Meekstone
2x Grindstone
1x Engineered Explosives

4x Counterbalance

4x Brainstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
3x Repeal
4x Force of Will

2x Jace, the Mindsculptor


Sideboard:

1x Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Threads of Disloyalty
3x Krosan Grip
2x Ravenous Trap
3x Perish
2x Firespout


I was testing against Urb Thresh and ANT (without Doomsday). While the Manabase seems pretty strong, it did happen that I didn't draw a second land within a Brainstorm (while keeping a otherwise solid hand). Most of the time thought, I could stabilize against the Thresh list an combo him out fast enough.
ANT is (with every CounterTop deck) imho a pretty easy matchup, it got a bit harder after he boarded in Confidants, but the Threads took care of them pretty good.
So, I am able to test against Ichorid (and will do within the next days), but we don't have the pool for a Zoo or other CounterTop decks (Bant, Thopter, etc.).
So it would be great if someone could share their experiences with these matchups and also point out some keycards (without Goyfs ofc) that I'm missing.

Thank you.

[jazzykat]

I'm glad to see that there is still interest.

1. There is another deck called Epic Painter which also has a separate thread. You may find more inspiration there.
2. There are 2 big problems for this deck: A. There are a lot of Progenitus and Emrakul in decks right now, so you need to also crypt them or something, with triggers on the stack and B. There is tons of spot removal right now.