[Deck] Faeries

[thefreakaccident]

This thread will discuss the FAERIES aggro-control archtype, and all variants therein.

The faerie tribe, while relatively new, has been dominating both block and standard, and is slowly pushing out NLB (and other levels of blue) in extended, which has always been a reasonably strong metgame choice there for a long time.

It has even been seeing a very moderate amount of play in legacy.

Why play them over any other already proven decks in the metagame?

To even begin to address these questions, I will have to give a sample decklist, explanations on chosen cards, and MU analyses.


Here is my current list of Ub faeries:

creatures//14
4 spellstutter sprite
4 scion of oona
2 sower of temptation
3 mistbind clique


spells//24
3 spell snare
4 ancestral vision
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 smother
4 bitterblossom
2 fact or fiction


lands//22
4 mutavault
4 underground sea
2 faerie conclave
4 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
1 swamp
4 island

sideboard//
4 extirpate
4 engineered plague
2 hydroblast
2 blue elemental blast
3 engineered explosives (ub don't have many ways of dealing with artifacts/enchantments)









EDIT:

The most recent list, based off of Nassif's Grand Prix winning deck:

lands//20
3 mutavault
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
4 tundra
4 underground sea
2 island

creatures//12
2 sower of temptation
2 vendilion clique
4 spellstutter sprite
4 dark confidant

spells//28
4 swords to plowshares
2 vedalken shackles
3 bitterblossom

4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 sensei's divining top

3 counterbalance
3 daze
4 force of will


sideboard//
4 scion of oona
4 engineered plague
4 staff of progenitus
3 disenchant




I will start the individual card explanations once I have made my observations clearer to the readers of this primer, so as to further shed light on many of my choices at once.

In my metagame (and many of yours, I feel it is safe to assume), most decks try to win the game of magical cards through turning creature cards sideways until their opponents life reach 0. It also seems that none of these current decks run more than 11 creatures, and usually play between 3 and 7 'spot' removal cards to take care of the opposing creatures. Hell, common decks featuring the word 'aggro', such as aggro loam still fall into this range with a usual count of 11 creatures.

Cards like bitterblossom, and sower of temptation therefore gain strength where they did not have strength previously, while doubling as both threats, and a way to deal with these low counts of creatures (it is surprising how taking control of one tarmogoyf can change a game so much some times).

It has also grown apparent that aside from a few random creatures still floating around in the format currently, most relevant ones are between 1 and 2 mana, ranging from CA enablers, to sources of utility, and most importantly beatsticks.


My card explanations as promised:

spellstutter sprite: most decks nowadays either cap our at 3 or four manacosted spells, this card is usually a hard counter throughout most games, while also being able to absorb 4-5 from a goyf swing later, or turning sideways when in a favorable position to do so, auto 4 of.

scion of oona: The card looks terrible, but with 24 faeries in the deck, randomly being able to give one of them shroud before a removal spell, and being able to perform battle tricks/push that little extra bit of damage through is key to the overall success of the deck, auto 4 of.

sower of temptation: slow, but I believe him to be worth it, as he has won games for this deck that would have otherwise been lost so many times, I cannot even count them. Without this and snare, this deck would have no hope against aggro-loam in game one, being able to deal with their few fatties and counter the Ddreams is key to the MU, 2 of because it is dead in some MUs and is a 4 drop.

mistbind clique: best card in the deck so far, being able to timewalk opponents, and save creatures from lethal combat damage has been very strong in testing/experience. He ends the game in 5 turns without scion, and 4 turns with scion (in which case they would need 2 spot removal spells, and for you not to have countermagic), the card is good, but clunky in the early game, so you only want 3 in the deck (would play more if he was cheaper).


ancestral vision: The deck doesn't have an overwhelming amount of first turn plays, this card lets us retool when we need it, without having to put in a lot of investment into it in the early/midgame, I feel it to be good enough to fill 4 slots.

smother: kills all relevant creatures in the current environment, auto 4 of.

force of will: Derf, 4 of.

bitterblossom: in some MUs it says, pay one life to keep your goyf from killing me right now, in others it says, I will swarm you, and you cannot do anything to me preboard hahahahaha, auto 4 of.

brainstorm: DERF (big derf), auto 4 of.

spell snare: counters most scary cards, and at worst keeps decks from curving out properly, a 3 of, because it is good, but not a 4 of.

fact or fiction: Lets the deck feel retarded, as you essentially have the same amount of draw as landstill, while maintaining an aggressive feel, a 2 of because it rounds out the draw suite of the deck overall.


The sideboard is a generic throw together for the opening post, obviously play what you prefer for whatever you will be playing against in your environment.


My Match up analysis for the varying match ups will primarily be strategy, and sideboard options.


Threshold: (all versions, as they will generally bring in the same cards postboard, and have the same amount of relevant cards, although red has more backbreaking sideboard options)...


The goal here is to set up a late game card advantage plan to help stitch together a control plan, keeping counterbalance off the table helps here, but it is by no means the end of the world if it does resolve, it just takes a lot more patience and well timed aggression to help pull you through.

Postboard I don't usually bring in anything, you could conceivably bring in explosives, but most of your cards are better in this MU than explosives, so I usually do not bother. Red gains both clasm and rebs, which are pretty solid against this deck (well, it hits 10 of our 22 threats).


Cunningstill: This MU is about well timed aggression, you are able to play around wrath and the such with your speedy little guys (by speedy I mean instant speed). Mistbind shines in this MU, as well as your amount of draw, which is their true bane, they cannot stand decks that draw more cards than them, cards like sower and smother come out for some extirpates and possibly some explosives.


Aggro loam: Your goal is to kill/steal their early threat, and counter dreams/assault, if this plan fails, then you are shit out of luck, bitterblossom can chump 8/11 of their crits, but vore tramples, so he needs to stay off their side of the board... postboard Faeries gains some key cards such as extirpate and bebs, which help a lot against them.


Ichorid: just scoop G1, and hope to win through well timed explosives/pates, and early plagues... you can use countermagic to slow them down several turns to help with this goal, but it is by far your worst MU you could ask for.


Goblins: Goblins have a history of giving control decks hard times due to their resilience to hate and quick clock, this is no exception... postboard you have a lot to bring in, and with some very tight play in game one, you can win, it is kind of funny that this is the only MU where drivers' pro blue actually matters, as they can tutor for an unblockable dude.

Your plan is to counter key cards like warcheif and driver, and try to gain board advantage with bitterblossom and scion... it is also worth note that mistbind is huge in this MU, as he can be great in the damage race, and buy you a whole turn (usually).


I have not playtested against TES/FT as of yet with this build, however, I am the only person that ever plays combo decks in my meta, so I do not need worry about those MUs, although I think it would be safe to assume that 11 counters, and SB can be pretty solid against those two decks, the lack of CB does actually hurt here.




Finally, cards that did not make the cut:


Thoguthseize/daze: The deck has a plan to go to the mid game, where both of these cards start to loose their luster, Faeries plays neither manadenial or tarmogoyf, meaning that tempo based disruption spells such as these are not too good for this decks' overall strategy, as you would like to hit a minimum 4 lands by turn 5.

Counterbalance: the CC range is all over the place, with 7 4cc cards, 4 3cc, and 22 lands, this card would actually be terrible in the current build. The card is good, but not in a deck such as this.

Tarmogoyf: a splash is not worth it, he is not in the decks' tribe, and he does not help the current direction this deck would like to take.

Vedalken shackles: This list does not run the necessary amount pf islands, and most decks do not try to swarm any more, so it just gets worse, as it can rarely take a goyf, or other scary creatures.


So, back to those questions that I posted at the beginning of this 'primer' :


What do faeries bring to the table?

These little blue guys allow a dedicated control deck to run a quick and solid clock without loosing any of its' control elements.


Why play them over already proven archtypes?

They have access to tricks that other decks in the format hate to see, they can hold their ground against most decks, as they are versatile and resilient.


The way I see it, they are dominating the two formats that include some of the best players in the world currently, and will soon gain more popularity in extended... I can see no reason why they can't at least be slightly competitive in our format.

I will edit the next post with more formal MU analysis later, when I feel like getting enough time to get full numbers against these decks. I have played quite a few games against them, but not as many as I would like to actually draw numbers from, just general analysis.

[thefreakaccident]

*reserved*

[Clark Kant]

IMO, Sower is the best fairie in the game. I think you should play more than 2.

I don't think this deck has earned the right to be called established yet. The build looks cool though.

[thefreakaccident]

I agree with your sentiments about sower being good, but it is a sorcery-speed 4cc 2/2... I just never wanted more than one in a game, as that is all you really need.


The faeries archtype itself has put up a few accomplishments already, and I think it is competitive enough to possibly further those accomplishments.

I am glad the first post here was a positive one.

EDIT: I would like to keep this thread here, as it has the potential, and I have taken a lot of time testing, and my numbers will be here soon.

[Bahamuth]

I don't really see why you are running Ancestral Visions, apart from it being in the T2 lists. That shouldn't be an argument, especially not in a format where we have better cards to search for. Why aren't you playing 4 Ponder if you don't have that many turn 1 drops? It seems way better. In this deck, it's especially better against combo, but I think it wil also improve your aggro matchup.

I also belive Sower should be at least a 3-off. The card is very strong with Scion and that combination can easily win games against Aggro-Control strategy's.

Why isn't Daze in this deck? Do you play it as an aggro-control deck or as a control deck?

[Rush]

You completely excluded the most commonly used Faerie in the format, and the best tempo creature in the game: Cloud of Faeries. Include it or else!

EDIT: You need more Duress/Thought Seize, if you're running black. I agree with Bahamuth that Ponder should replace Visions. Finally, 6 fetch lands should be enough. If you run more, you'll find that last fetch land will screw you out of random games down the line (not too often, but often enough that 6 is the normal choice). You will find that one game where you need that last mana, you draw that card, and you lose because you've paid too much life for the fetch lands. Have you tried taking out a Smother for another Sower? It may cost more, but gaining control of your opponent's creatures trumps killing them. One last note, Mutavault does benefits from the tribal aspects of the deck, but Factories make better chump blockers for the format, so you may want to give them a try. Other than that, I like the deck.

[YuanTi]

Your Decklist is a long way away from the lists which have actually been performing. The lists which have actually been making Top 8s are in themselves very varied.

Looking on Deckcheck, and these two threads, and cutting all tournaments with under 33 players, we see these 3 lists:

http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=16703
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=14511
http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=18565

The third list doesn\'t really follow a Faerie strategy at all, it\'s looks more like a very strange Threshold build, with Bitterblossom and Spellstutters. The second list is actually tribal based, but is UW, and runs equipment, and faster faeries, and is a long way from what your list tries to do. The first list is closest to your list, but has a large number of differences. Without any consistant results to really back it up, I don\'t think Faeries deserves an Established spot at the moment.

On the list:

Mistbind Clique is bad. If they keep Faeries off the board, he sits in your hand uselessly. If they are holding a removal spell they can turn it into a 2 for 1 trade. And even if they don\'t, its a 4/4 for 4. This has not shown itself to be good enough for the format before, and Clique has nothing going for it.

Ancestral Visions is awful. It\'s slow, and mediocre at best in the early game. In Standard you can afford to wait 3 turns for your cards. In Legacy, many decks will have taken a lot of advantage by this point, and you\'ll be fighting to get into the game. Its also a terrible topdeck when you need something now.

You are worse than Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf does the same thing as the creatures in your deck, and does not rely on Tribal Synergies as he does so. Bitterblossom, which seems to be the card you rely on as a 2cc winner, will often be relegated to the production of chump blockers, Sower of Temptation deals with Tarmogoyf, but every deck you are likely to see will have counters or burn for it. Where your faeries take 6+ Swings in order to win the game, Tarmogoyf will do it in 4, and not pack it to Burn or Pyroclasm. You also say you want to go to the midgame, but were some cards swapped, you could be on Threshold, and would win the game faster.

Lack of Thoughtseize: Whether or not you want to go to the midgame, Thoughtseize grabs threats which are otherwise must counters.

Your Curve is poor: You pretty much said this yourself.

[Peter_Rotten]

This deck(s) seem to be right on the cusp of being an established deck in Legacy; however, the deck lists still vary greatly and its performance has been a little spotty. Let's leave it in N&D for now.

[Clark Kant]

The current list basically looks like a UB block fairies list with Force, Brainstorm and FoF thrown in.

That doesn't cut it in legacy imho.

If you want to compete in legacy, you actually have to play cards that are catered to this format specifically (Chalice of the Void, two mana lands etc).

Why not play "Fairie Stompy" but supplement it's creature base with these guys?

All of the fairies (even Pestermite) have 2 colorless in the casting cost so the deck fits the manabase perfectly.

You end up being a lot faster too.

There really is zero advantage to be had keeping around a standard manabase.

Bitterblossom and Scion of Oona honestly seems to be the weakest cards in the deck, so why not cut them for stuff like Pestermite, Cloud of Fairies and more Sowers (all of which were good enough to make traditional Fairie Stompy lists).

And decreasing the depending on Fairies, you can then freely play Mulldrifter and Trinket Mage, and maybe Sea Drake too, basically make this a more creature heavy version of Fairie Stompy.

Here is a quick and dirty list...

The REAL Fairie Stompy

Artifacts
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword Of Fire And Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures
4 Sea Drake
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Serendib Efreet
3 Cloud Of Faeries
3 Sower of Temptation
2 Mistbind Clique
2 Pestermite
2 Mulldrifter
2 Trinket Mage

Instants
4 Force Of Will

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
8 Island
1 Seat Of The Synod

Sideboard
4 Weatherseed Fairies

[thefreakaccident]

Unfortunately, I did see this coming, and I will have to adress these problems.

Using the deckcheck function does not make you seem awesome, I myself looked and did not find the lists there worth my time, the fact that you posted them means nothing.


The cards individually are weak in this format, much like in countersliver (very rough comparison, don't take it too far), the cards gain strength through eachother, scion ---> every faerie has shroud/pump ----> bitterblossom now a threat -----> mistbind has a nice flow of thins the champion ------> spellstutter counters everything in the format.



Ancestral vision really isn't all that bad here, as the deck needs CA draw spells, not cantrips, which is where those would preside anyways.


I cannot stress this enough, just because thoughtseize has a little faerie on it, does not mean it belongs in the legacy version, If I were to make the deck less controlling, and more agro, then sure, but thoughtseize is not good in a more controlling frame, such as this one.


Hopefully, you guys can get over the list, and actually start some discussion, as you may not like my personal list, but the faerie tribe definitely has potential to compete in the future.


FAERIE stompy, funny, I thought of that too, pestermite is terrible, sower is like the only additional card that is any good in that frame, and it is a turn slower than most of your cards, why steal their creatures when you can race?


On that note, besides despising my opening post, does anyone have anything worth while to post, or just more senseless dribble?


EDIT: @ Yuanti--

Ah yes, Tarmogoyf.... How can I put this simple enough? Oh yeah! This is a tribal deck, and we run 11 countermagic in the MD, as well as 6 removal spells... Racing a tarmgoyf is not all that difficult in the mid-game, and only 2 decks in the format run burn anymore (burn and red threshold, and a lesser extent imperial painter with 4 bolt)... I am not saying that he is not bigger than these creatures, I am just saying that he does not have flying, and we have relevant removal....

Also, every creature currently is worse than tarmogoyf, except for dreadnought who needs a two card investment, and is slightly more vulnerable than the goyf.

[Clark Kant]

FAERIE stompy, funny, I thought of that too, pestermite is terrible, sower is like the only additional card that is any good in that frame, and it is a turn slower than most of your cards, why steal their creatures when you can race?

Simply put. Chalice is the best disruption a deck could ask for in legacy. It singlehandedly cripples thresh, and most legacy decks by itself.

City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb/Chrome Mox are the best acceleration that any legacy deck could ever ask for.

To run neither of them, in a deck that could easily support them strikes me as a very bad idea.

[thefreakaccident]

I wasn't dissing faerie stompy, it is a very good deck.

It is just better the way it is, and the fearies that we would be trying to fit into its' shell would be too weak to do the job the deck requires from its' creatures.

The only true faerie creatures that can be fit into that deck are sower and cloud, pestermite and mistbind wouldn't be able to get the job done (mistbind would need another faerie, and pest will not do much)...

That is what I was saying, didn't mean to come off that way.

[Clark Kant]

My point is, why not change your manabase, and noncreature spell base to give the deck the strengths that Fairie Stompy has. Chalice is bomb. Being able to drop all of your threats on turn one rather than on turn three is awesome. And Equipment is just as strong on these guys as it is on Sea Drakes and Efreets.

If you dislike Pestermite and are adamant that you dont want to play any nonfairies in the deck at all, here the decklist that I recommend for you.

Fairie Stompy 2.0

Artifacts
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Sword Of Fire And Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantments
4 Bitterblossom

Creatures
4 Cloud Of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Scion of Oona
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Sower of Temptation

Instants
4 Force Of Will

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Island

Though I see no reason to leave out bombs like Sea Drake, Serendib Efreet, Trinket Mage and Mulldrifter either.

I also am terribly unimpressed with Bitterblossom. I would prefer to stay monoblue and play Pestermites and Weatherseed Fairies instead.

[YuanTi]

Using the deckcheck function does not make you seem awesome, I myself looked and did not find the lists there worth my time, the fact that you posted them means nothing.

If you\'re going to claim that a deck is performing, then the versions that are performing are very important to look at. Why are we getting bitter?

The cards individually are weak in this format, much like in countersliver (very rough comparison, don\'t take it too far), the cards gain strength through eachother, scion ---> every faerie has shroud/pump ----> bitterblossom now a threat -----> mistbind has a nice flow of thins the champion ------> spellstutter counters everything in the format.

So Scion makes Blossom good, and Blossom makes Mistbind and Spellstutter good. However, your comparison to Countersliver is surprisingly relevant. Countersliver has synergies a lot better than these. 8 +1/+1 effects available (if not always used), as well as the Shroud, as well as any other slivers the deck runs (Hibernation, Plated, Winged). Every creature in the deck improves the others. Faeries doesn\'t come close to this. Is Countersliver good? I\'d personally say so. Does it perform better than Threshold? No. You\'re claiming the reason to run this over Threshold is the large synergies between the creatures, but the Countersliver example seems to refute this as a good plan. And if this was a good reason to run these weaker cards, wouldn\'t it be better just to run Countersliver?

Ancestral vision really isn\'t all that bad here, as the deck needs CA draw spells, not cantrips, which is where those would preside anyways.

Aggro Control decks in a similar shell to this one do not need Ancestral Vision, why do you?

I cannot stress this enough, just because thoughtseize has a little faerie on it, does not mean it belongs in the legacy version, If I were to make the deck less controlling, and more agro, then sure, but thoughtseize is not good in a more controlling frame, such as this one.

Thoughtseize is not an aggro card, it controls your opponents resources. Your frame also seems more aggro orientated, running 15 cards which the only usage for is to turn something sideways.

On that note, besides despising my opening post, does anyone have anything worth while to post, or just more senseless dribble?

Looks like someone needs to calm down a bit.

EDIT: @ Yuanti--

Ah yes, Tarmogoyf.... How can I put this simple enough? Oh yeah! This is a tribal deck, and we run 11 countermagic in the MD, as well as 6 removal spells...

Threshold runs 12 or 8+Balance Counters in the Maindeck, 2 of your removal spells are vulnerable to creature destruction, and the other 4 depend on the opponents threat. Mongoose and Tarmogoyf should have no trouble getting around that, and you\'ll be even worse off facing down Tombstalkers, Gathan Raiders, Factories, or Swarms of Goblins.

Racing a tarmgoyf is not all that difficult in the mid-game,

1 and 2 Power creatures historically have trouble racing 5 power creatures.

and only 2 decks in the format run burn anymore (burn and red threshold, and a lesser extent imperial painter with 4 bolt)

Goblins have Incinerator, Goyf Sligh has Burn, while it may not be optimal, many other decks can be found running Burn too, especially Aggro Loam, and Survival can run creatures which burn.

... I am not saying that he is not bigger than these creatures, I am just saying that he does not have flying, and we have relevant removal....

If your opponents were running 4 Tarmogoyf and 56 Forests, your points would be correct, lets not forget that the opponents are allowed to play though.

Also, every creature currently is worse than tarmogoyf, except for dreadnought who needs a two card investment, and is slightly more vulnerable than the goyf.

So, why should we be considering an Aggro Control deck without Goyf?

[Agro Beats]

The deck is amazingly powerful despite being mostly Type 2. Hell, Thresh AND Goblins were 98% extended legal a few years ago (force, dual lands, and lackey being the only not allowed cards). The advantage that this deck has over ANY aggro control deck is that all the creatures fly, most flash and all have an ability (Spellstutter Sprite, Vendilion Clique, Mistbind Clique, Scion of Oona) while the only sorcery speed critter (Sower) is totally worth the sorcery speed. Many Legacy players dismiss the power of Ancestral Vision but all you need is one to resolve as a 3 for 1 for free on the turn it clicks and it can easily be pitched to force later. I consider it a must in the deck. While so many decks have one hero (tarmogoyf, dreadnought, peasant with a large sword or jitte attached to it...), this one can function like merfolk where you can attack for 1, 1, 1, 7, 9... without the bitterblossom which can kill on its own. I played the deck both when lorwyn was first legal, then when morningtide was first legal:
Lorwyn version variation from thefreakaccident's version: 4x Shriekmaw as the removal, 4x Cloud of Faeries, 4x Sowers main, and 3 Mistbind Clique main
Morningtide Version: Cut Shriekmaw and moved Mistbind Clique to the board for 3x Vendilion Clique and 4x Bitterblossom
Lorwyn version went 4-1 only losing to belcher that went off games 1 and 3 on turn one by Duressing my Force of Will and going off that turn. All other matches I 2-0ed including trinket-goyf, reanimator, BWU Fish, and truffle shuffle with end step Scion, main phase Sower being the nuts in all those matches.
Morningtide version went 4-0-1 with me drawing with my friend in the finals defeating two random aggro-control decks, one counterbalance deck, and a BWG control deck.

[thefreakaccident]

The deck is amazingly powerful despite being mostly Type 2. Hell, Thresh AND Goblins were 98% extended legal a few years ago (force, dual lands, and lackey being the only not allowed cards). The advantage that this deck has over ANY aggro control deck is that all the creatures fly, most flash and all have an ability (Spellstutter Sprite, Vendilion Clique, Mistbind Clique, Scion of Oona) while the only sorcery speed critter (Sower) is totally worth the sorcery speed. Many Legacy players dismiss the power of Ancestral Vision but all you need is one to resolve as a 3 for 1 for free on the turn it clicks and it can easily be pitched to force later. I consider it a must in the deck. While so many decks have one hero (tarmogoyf, dreadnought, peasant with a large sword or jitte attached to it...), this one can function like merfolk where you can attack for 1, 1, 1, 7, 9... without the bitterblossom which can kill on its own. I played the deck both when lorwyn was first legal, then when morningtide was first legal:
Lorwyn version variation from thefreakaccident's version: 4x Shriekmaw as the removal, 4x Cloud of Faeries, 4x Sowers main, and 3 Mistbind Clique main
Morningtide Version: Cut Shriekmaw and moved Mistbind Clique to the board for 3x Vendilion Clique and 4x Bitterblossom
Lorwyn version went 4-1 only losing to belcher that went off games 1 and 3 on turn one by Duressing my Force of Will and going off that turn. All other matches I 2-0ed including trinket-goyf, reanimator, BWU Fish, and truffle shuffle with end step Scion, main phase Sower being the nuts in all those matches.
Morningtide version went 4-0-1 with me drawing with my friend in the finals defeating two random aggro-control decks, one counterbalance deck, and a BWG control deck.

Thank god for you sir...


Also, Yuanti, personal flames are not tolerated on these boards, attack the idea, not the person.


Also, taking my words out of context purposefully is ok in the political realm, but just rude otherwise.


That being said, I guess I will have to defend my honor:

So Scion makes Blossom good, and Blossom makes Mistbind and Spellstutter good. However, your comparison to Countersliver is surprisingly relevant. Countersliver has synergies a lot better than these. 8 +1/+1 effects available (if not always used), as well as the Shroud, as well as any other slivers the deck runs (Hibernation, Plated, Winged). Every creature in the deck improves the others. Faeries doesn\'t come close to this. Is Countersliver good? I\'d personally say so. Does it perform better than Threshold? No. You\'re claiming the reason to run this over Threshold is the large synergies between the creatures, but the Countersliver example seems to refute this as a good plan. And if this was a good reason to run these weaker cards, wouldn\'t it be better just to run Countersliver?

My original point was that the cards help eachother out to CONTROL the gamestate, whereas slivers uses them to amass a huge shrouded army.

I didn't say: "run this over threshold, OMG bestest deck evar!", now did I?

Aggro Control decks in a similar shell to this one do not need Ancestral Vision, why do you?

Show me another agro-control deck with 22 lands and fact or fiction, an I'll give you a cookie.

The only reason we use this is it gives the deck the ability to play like a control deck, while still maintaining a decent amount of threats.

Thoughtseize is not an aggro card, it controls your opponents resources. Your frame also seems more aggro orientated, running 15 cards which the only usage for is to turn something sideways.

Is there any card in the deck that turns sideways without some obvious advantage otherwise?

sprite> counter
scion> shroud + beef
mistbind> timewalk
sower> control magic

I guess you're argument must mean the man lands and bitterblossom, well, they survive sweep effects, and give you men when you need them.

1 and 2 Power creatures historically have trouble racing 5 power creatures.

yeah, 4 2/2s with flying cannot race a 3/4-4/5, I must be insane.

Threshold runs 12 or 8+Balance Counters in the Maindeck, 2 of your removal spells are vulnerable to creature destruction, and the other 4 depend on the opponents threat. Mongoose and Tarmogoyf should have no trouble getting around that, and you\'ll be even worse off facing down Tombstalkers, Gathan Raiders, Factories, or Swarms of Goblins.

Show me a list of threshold with 12 hard counters, and again, I will give you a cookie...

Don't forget that scion makes it difficult to deal with sower, considering I too have countermagic... admittedly, stalkers and raiders are difficult to deal with, but that is really one of the main reasons to run the sower.

Every blue based agro-control deck has a tough time against goblins, this is what sideboards are for.

So, why should we be considering an Aggro Control deck without Goyf?

Is this kevin?

[Cabal-kun]

Also, Yuanti, personal flames are not tolerated on these boards, attack the idea, not the person.

This is most amusing, coming from you, considering that you posted things like

Using the deckcheck function does not make you seem awesome, I myself looked and did not find the lists there worth my time, the fact that you posted them means nothing.

Hopefully, you guys can get over the list, and actually start some discussion...

On that note, besides despising my opening post, does anyone have anything worth while to post, or just more senseless dribble?

Show me another agro-control deck with 22 lands and fact or fiction, an I'll give you a cookie.

And other such inflammatory seeded statements.

I didn't say: "run this over threshold, OMG bestest deck evar!", now did I?

This is a strawman. This is also amusing, considering in the same post you said

Also, taking my words out of context purposefully is ok in the political realm, but just rude otherwise.

[Peter_Rotten]

This does not seem to going down a productive line. Can we all play nicely or shall I lock this?

[dude 666]

I've tested faeries and suggest to anyone who has been talking shit about it to do the same. It has many powerful creatures, which, like thefreakaccident pointed out, have very useful abilities. The most important creature is spellstutter sprite, I feel that without him, faeries would be garbage. He is the counterspell on legs that mystic snake was supposed to be.

Mistbind clique, on the other hand, I can't say that I liked. He is terribly slow, and seems win-more. I tested ancestral visions, but I have very mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it's awesome, but other times it fails miserably. I can't think of a replacement draw engine, but ancestral visions is too unreliable.

I think thoughtseize could push this into the more aggro/control area, have you tested it thefreakaccident?

[thefreakaccident]

I tested it in an earlier incarnation, but as I slowly moved to bigger and bigger spells, and a more controlling build, I eventually decided to cut it for a better late game, because as the game goes on, the top of each players decks, and the additional life just are not worth it in the later turns.

I could post my older lists, but I do not want to clutter this thread with outdated tech....

Basically, it came down to this for me:

Faeries have a very strong late game, they cannot end the game by turn 6 usually, and they want to play the CA game.. Thoughtseize just did not cut it for my list.