[Deck] Aggro Threshold

[Captain Hammer]

Here's an idea that I had and just wanted to put out there. Many aggro control mirror matches comes down to whichever player can find and resolve one of their threat and actually keep it in play long enough to win. So to get an advantage, why not just play more threats? This in turn also improves your aggro matchup, and even gives you a faster clock against combo.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mystic Enforcer

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Predict

4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining top

4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains

It's basically threshold, but with more threats, so that it's not vulnerable to pinpoint removal like StP and Snuff Out and Edicts which are on the rise. It plays like a mix of Threshold and Zoo.

Another major strength of this deck is the land destruction. With 4 Stifle, 4 Wasteland, and 4 Knights to grab the other Wastelands, your opponent will be scrambling to keep even just one land in play.

Other cards worth playing...

Daze - Needs no explanation. Goes well with the current strategy of playing Stifle + Wasteland. I really want to find a way to make room for this card.

Oblivion Ring/Engineered Explosives - No explanation needed. These are versatile, all be it slow and mana intensive removal spells. I personally was never a big fan of their high casting cost.

Worship - Mostly just an interesting tech to try in the sideboard. Gives Burn and Aggro a hard time. With the higher threat count, combined with the Mongoose, the card is better than it had ever been in Threshold.

Gadook Teeg - Another must play in the sideboard. One option is to cut Force of Will altogether (blasphemous I know) to make room for the Dazes and also support 3-4 Gadook Teeg against opposing Forces, Wraths, Ad-Nauseum, Tendrils, Belchers and Warrens.

Werebear - Basically Tarmogoyf 5-8. Also doubles as a mana producer early on. The only reason I opted not to play it is because it makes the deck too dependent on achieving Threshold.

Trygon Predator - It's relegated to the sideboard. But it's strong enough that it could easily hop back into the maindeck someday soon.

Rafiq of the Many - I had it in my initial build and it was actually very powerful, but no one seems to be a fan of this guy. So I guess 2 Mystic Enforcer is enough 4cc threats.

[Aggro_zombies]

Rafiq is bad in an aggro deck. A 3/3 for four with an ability that requires an aggressive deck to attack with a single creature each combat is bad.

Also, why all the random 2-ofs? Make up your mind on what you want to run already.

[bowvamp]

I like the idea of that new knight from conflux in this deck. In general, I see it being played in threshold the most out of any deck it has a possibility to be played in. Maybe:

-2 Rafiq
+2 Knight of the Reliquary

[b4r0n]

Most aggro-control mirrors come down to who can assemble Countertop the fastest. So, if you truly want to win the aggro-control mirror, you should be running 4 Counterbalance, 3 Sensei's Divining Top, and 2-3 Trygon Predators. Hell, if you're dead set on winning the mirror, run maindeck Krosan Grips.

Oh, and Rafiq is terrible.

[Captain Hammer]

I originally played just 2 Knights because it seems only strong in the mid-late game, when you have an excess of lands and a fuller graveyard. But it is a strong effect so...

I took in all of your recommenations and updated the build.

Basically, I cut 2 Trygon Predators (something had to be cut) and 2 Rafiq of the Many to make room for the last 2 Knight of the Requilary as well as another Counterbalance and a Predict.

The Rafiq was actually very good though. I think you guys are underestimating him.

[Captain Hammer]

I'm surprised that no one has anything to say about this list.

I would think a shell of what is typically considered the best all around deck in legacy, but playing 4 Stifle + 4 Wasteland + 4 Knights to tutor for all 4 Wasteland would get a lot of attention given the new draw that people have towards land destruction.

[Aggro_zombies]

I would think a shell of what is typically considered the best all around deck in legacy, but playing 4 Stifle + 4 Wasteland + 4 Knights to tutor for all 4 Wasteland would get a lot of attention given the new draw that people have towards land destruction.

Blowing up the already scant colored sources in this deck in order to Waste an opponent seems poor. I would much rather have Loam and Wasteland because at least then the land destruction isn't symmetrical.

[raharu]

Blowing up the already scant colored sources in this deck in order to Waste an opponent seems poor. I would much rather have Loam and Wasteland because at least then the land destruction isn't symmetrical.

Some sort of land recursion seems mandatory, at any rate. Also, the lack of Daze, the high CMC of the threats (as compared to Threshold) compounded with only 14 color-producing lands, which feed Knight anyway, the list just looks... weird.

[Jaynel]

A 3 casting cost creature that taps for a mediocre effect instead of going into the red zone doesn't exactly scream "aggro" to me.

[Captain Hammer]

So basically, you're saying I should up the land count and rename the deck.

Okay, that's no problem, I had been meaning to do that anyways...

-1 Predict
-1 Counterbalance

+1 Tropical Island/Savannah (fetchable with both Flooded Strand and Windswept Heath)
+1 Tundra/Windswept Heath/Island (if retaining Counterbalance)

And henceforth, this deck will be called... LD Thresh.

Happy?

P.S: The list already runs both Swords and Counterbalance, it always has. Not sure where you got the impression that it doesn't.

P.P.S: I really do want to make room for both Daze and LftL/Crucible but I don't know what to cut to make this happen.

Perhaps the Counterbalance + Sensei's engine should go...

-3 Counterbalance
-3 Sensei's Divining Top

+4 Daze
+2 Crucible of Worlds

So the final list would look like this...

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mystic Enforcer

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 LftL/Crucible of Worlds

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island

[Skeggi]

And henceforth, this deck will be called... LD Thresh.

Boo! Call it 'Smelly Cat'!

[Captain Hammer]

That would be a cool name, if the deck ran any cats that is.

Unfortunately, it turns out that the Knight is actually NOT a cat, even though I think it was spoiled as one originally.

[MSC]

Hmm the loss of CounterTop is too much i think.
Now you have "Aggro-Deck" with a total of 14 Creatures and no Burn. On Top of that you have no Raw-Carddraw at all. I realy don't know how this Deck can be better than the other Thresh-Lists.

But maybe I'm wrong. Do you have some Test-Results with this Deck?

[raharu]

Back to Basics thresh seems like a better gameplan than this :3 Just being honest.

EDIT: Aggro Threshold

Creatures: 13
Nimble Mongoose x4
Tarmogoyf x4
Quirion Dryad x4
Fledgling Dragon x1

Burn: 8
Lightning Bolt x4
Magma Jet x4

Cantrips: 11
Brainstorm x4
Ponder x4
Predict x3

Permission: 10
Spell Snare x3
Daze x3
Force of Will x4

Lands: 18
Flooded Strand x4
Wooded Foothills x4
Volcanic Island x3
Tropical Island x3
Mountain x1
Forest x1
Island x2

Sideboard: 15
Blood Moon x4
Krosan Grip x3
Pithing Needle/ Pyroclasm/ Firespout x3
BEB x1
Hydroblast x1
REB x1
Pyroblast x1

Now watch me YOUUUUUUUU!!!

That's aggro threshold. Very nice. 21 Blue cards for FoW, Blood Moons in the side for control, Fledgling Dragon, the most unconditionally aggressive creature ever to be featured in any Threshold list, ever, tons of burn, and the creature with the most aggressive potential in the game, Quirion Dryad. Go Go Aggro.

[Captain Hammer]

Why is burn so popular with you guys?

It's not enough to deal with any of the main creatures in the format, and it's not enough to act as finishers either, you will need to do 2 for 1 trades for that.

I would much rather devote those slots to cards like Daze and FoW and Divert and counterbalance that can actually stop those Dreadnoughts and Tombstalkers and Goyfs and Enforcers from resolving in the first place.

Disruption ala, Stifle and Wasteland seems to be a much more productive use of deck space than burn spells that aren't good enough to serve as removal, or as finishers.

[Waikiki]

UGr thresh has been performing just fine lately so I guess the burn reach should be working.

[raharu]

Why is burn so popular with you guys?

It's not enough to deal with any of the main creatures in the format, and it's not enough to act as finishers either, you will need to do 2 for 1 trades for that.

Reach. It's that simple. That, and it's never dead. It also grows Dryad too :3

I would much rather devote those slots to cards like Daze and FoW and Divert and counterbalance that can actually stop those Dreadnoughts and Tombstalkers and Goyfs and Enforcers from resolving in the first place.

Bur I already have FoW and Daze, and Counterbalance is too slow. Divert, on the other hand... is a thought :}

Disruption ala, Stifle and Wasteland seems to be a much more productive use of deck space than burn spells that aren't good enough to serve as removal, or as finishers.

Magma Jet sets up Predict, grows Dryad, filters the deck (Scry is THE SHIT. Srsly), works well with Brainstorm, is an aggressive spell, and when coupled with a Lightning Bolt takes 1/4 of the opponent's starting life total, most likely increasing your clock by a turn. Stifle does none of this, and you can't play a lot of creatures with Wasteland in the deck, especially if you only have 18 lands, Wasteland-inclusive. Threshold with Wasteland is Thrash, and Thrash isn't really aggro. Thrash plays the control role as well as Balance'd Thresh because instead of indulging in a tempo sink (Counterbalance and SDT) that stops spells, they control the tempo with land disruption, removal, and early game counters until they get one of their 8 threats. Adding threats to Stifle-Waste thresh doesn't make it more aggro (especially when they're 3 amd 4 mana), and adding Counterbalance to Stifle-Waste thresh doesn't make it more aggro, or faster, or really that much stronger, especially if you do it at the expense of Daze.

[Captain Hammer]

But maybe I'm wrong. Do you have some Test-Results with this Deck?

I don't have physical copies of the Knights yet. I'll be able to play against a much broader range of players and decks once I do.

But actually, the Knight in these games has been VERY VERY good. It hops onto the board as a 4/4 or 5/5 usually. And can easily pump itself up as large as it needs to get.

I mean you can give it +2/+2 every turn just by saccing a land to grab a fetchland every turn and then using the fetchland. It can do this after you declare it as a blocker too. And it even combos well with brainstorm, and top and counterbalance. I think you guys fail to realize that this is all pretty absurdly powerful.

It also turns all additional lands you have into Wasteland to disrupt your opponent's colorbase. I think it's going to be a very strong and very popular threat in the future. Basically like Goyfs 5-8.

In additiont to the Knights, the Rafiq were also very aggressive and that's why the deck earned the name Aggro Thresh. Because it had a lot of big scary threats.

But even without Rafiq, if the Knight does prove to be the next Goyf, then I supposed the title Aggro Threshold would make more sense to more people.

I really can't imagine ever cutting it or StP for a 2cc two damage burn spell like Magma Jet. It's just no where near as powerful. I dont care how good Scry is. It doesn't justify trading a broken effect like StP or a massive threat like Knight for a 2 mana 2 damage burn spell.

[Aj-capra]

I'm looking for testing this deck w/o cb/sdt.

Capt.Hammer you're testing crucible or lftl now?

I think crucible is better because lftl is easily extirpable and to have 2 mana open, too.

@others comments : lftl is better than crucible because it allows to put on weight Knight of the Reliquary.

But...ltfl is bad versus Knight of the Reliquary ability. Crucible in this direction is >>>>> lftl.

[Captain Hammer]

I agree.

I have been using proxies and Knight of the Reliquary has been AMAZING in the deck. He is usually a 4/4 or 5/5 even without you having to use his pump ability. Once you pump him even once, he becomes a 6/6 or a 7/7, big enough to beat everything in the format short of Dreadnought.

I'm surprised it's not getting more attention.

Fetching a wasteland with it to shuffle away some cards, Wasting their land, and pumping the knight +2/+2 in the process is a huge tempo boost.

I'm going to build around the guy more now.

I'm thinking...

4 Wasteland
3 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Horizon Canopy
+1 Maze of Ith/Treetop Village/Mishra's Factory

Would all work together really well in the deck.