This is my first post ever, so bear with me.
First, the list:
Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Hierarch
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
Non-creature spells:
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands:
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Treetop Village
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Duress
3 Infest
4 Extirpate
2 Choke
3 Gaddock Teeg
EDIT: Added card links for your convenience.
Now, explanations of the card choices:
Tarmogoyf: Duh.
Kitchen Finks: Possibly MVP of the deck. Is awesome against Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, basically against any aggro deck. Most often a 2-for-1 with 4 life attached. Is also very good against Landstill; unless they have the Counterspell or the Swords to Plowshares, it takes two Vindicates or two Wrath of Gods to wipe out just one Kitchen Finks.
Knight of the Reliquary: He's just huge for most of the game, thanks to nine fetches and four Wastelands. A 6/6 for three mana, with the bonuses of being able to mana fix, accelerate, and create a mini-Wastelock? I'll take 4.
Loxodon Hierarch: Most people don't think that this guy deserves a spot in my list. After extensive testing, I could not disagree more. Four life is huge against decks like Zoo and Canadian Thresh, and 4/4 trumps most creatures nowadays except Tarmogoyf. Just topdecking one of these can easily swing games that you were losing. In rare cases, his regeneration ability can save some of your guys from a Deed for 3+.
Doran, the Siege Tower: Yeah, he's pretty awesome. A 5/5 for three mana is pretty efficient, especially when it ends Tarmogoyf stalls, nullifies Goblin Piledriver, and makes various X/1s (Dark Confidant, Silvergill Adept, etc.) a lot less menacing. The reason that he's a 3-of is due to his color-hungriness and his legendary status.
Pernicious Deed: This card is so multifunctional its amazing. It's almost always a one-sided Akroma's Vengeance if activated for two (unless you have a Goyf out).
Engineered Explosives: I'm not so sure about this card. It kills Vials and Lackeys on the play, and is pretty awesome against Zoo and Dredge, but otherwise it tends to be an overcosted, Stifle-able Vindicate. Looking for potential replacements, suggestions?
Vindicate: Although most of the time it's an overcosted one-for-one with a Goyf or some other creature, its versatility makes it worth it. It's awesome against matchups like Landstill, Stax, and Enchantress. Also, I've won many games off the back of turn two Goyf, turn three Doran, turn four Vindicate + Wasteland their manabase.
Swords to Plowshares: Auto-include.
Sensei's Divining Top: Digs for answers in a deck that has no other form of card-drawing. Digs for lands in a deck that needs to hit its land drops. Also digs for boarded-in cards in games two and three. Has been awesome for me so far, going to three copies might be worth it.
Bayou, Savannah, Scrubland: Duh.
Forest, Swamp, Plains: Sometimes you want to search for basics (Moon effects, Back to Basics, Wasteland).
9 Fetches: I've found nine is a good number to keep Knight of the Reliquary happy and to maximize the usefulness of Sensei's Divining Top.
Horizon Canopy: Is a one-of to fetch with Knight of the Reliquary, either when you are in topdeck mode or in emergencies. It's not bad if you draw it either.
Treetop Village: This land is awesome, despite its CIPT clause. This deck only has two one-drops anyway, it doesn't really matter that Treetop Village comes into play tapped. It effectively raises your threat count, and attacking for 6 the turn after Deeding away the board is awesome, and happens relatively often. It can also be fetched with Knight of the Reliquary for additional blockers/attackers the turn after.
Wasteland: Although this deck is not often the aggro deck, the sheer size of the creatures you play sometimes allows you to win with one creature on the board while Wasting/Vindicating their mana base.
Duress: Usually boarded in against blue decks, combo decks, and any other deck where you don't need so much permanent disruption.
Infest: Boarded in against Goblins, Merfolk, and Dredge, which are some of your tougher matchups. I've tested Engineered Plague in this slot, and I've found that it doesn't do enough against the X/2s in Goblins, and the Lords in Merfolk effectively nullify it. You need two Engineered Plagues to be useful. You only need one Infest to wreck their side of the board.
Extirpate: I've chosen Extirpate over Tormod's Crypt because it's more versatile. Tormod's Crypt doesn't hurt 43 Land or other Loam-based decks that much, since it only takes one Loam to get going again; Extirpate takes out all Loams in their deck. It's also harder for Dredge to play around Extirpate than Tormod's Crypt.
Choke: I've a little iffy on this slot. It wrecks Landstill and Countertop strategies, but even against Canadian Thresh and Merfolk, which play basically all Islands, it's too slow. Looking for potential replacements.
Gaddock Teeg: This guy can be boarded in against so many matchups. He is particularly effective against Dredge (no Dread Return), Landstill (no hardcast Decree, no Humility, no Wrath, no Elspeth, no Moat), Stax (no Armageddon, Smokestack, or Chalice), and Tendrils Combo (they have to get rid of it before casting Ad Nauseam, Tendrils, or Ill-Gotten Gains).
Notice that, in the title of the thread, I put "Rock" in quotation marks. This is because, although the deck plays green, black, and white, and although it also plays Pernicious Deed, I don't think it truly fits the requirements of a Rock deck. It plays absolutely no hand disruption whatsoever (except Duresses in the board), and it lacks the late-game recursion seen in rock decks (Volrath's Stronghold, Eternal Witness, Genesis). It's more of a early-midgame deck.
Also, I don't own most of these cards, so I haven't won any tournaments with this deck or anything, and most of my testing has been online. With that said, take this next section with a grain of salt:
The Matchups:
Canadian Threshold: Slightly Favorable. Sometimes Canadian Thresh just does what it does and wrecks your manabase. Sometimes the excessive removal played in this deck is enough to keep Tarmogoyfs and Mongeese in check, allowing your creatures to easily take the game. By the way, Doran owns Vendilion Clique. Beware of Stifle, though, because its a huge tempo boost for them if it hits a fetchland, EE, or Deed.
Merfolk: Even to Slightly Favorable. Again, Stifle hurts. The games you lose are the ones where they go turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Standstill, turn 3 counter everything you play while they build an insurmountable board position. The games you win are the ones where you resolve a big threat and keep them on one or two creatures with your removal. If you're lucky, they'll resolve a Standstill with only a Mutavault on the board, when you're holding a Wasteland and a Treetop Village in hand.
Goblins: Even to Slightly Unfavorable. You need to be the aggressive player in this matchup, or else the card advantage from Ringleader, Siege-Gang Commander, and Matron is too much for you to handle. As long as they're only playing one creature a turn, it should be easy for you to win. EE and Deed are suboptimal here, due to the large number of 3+ CC creatures they run.
Stax: Very favorable. Chalice and Trinisphere do next to nothing against you. Pernicious Deed wipes out their board, including Mox Diamonds. Their land destruction strategy feeds Knight of the Reliquary (which can easily attack through a Magus of the Tabernacle), and having nine fetches allows you to easily fetch basics through a Wastelock. The only cards you should be scared of are Armageddon and Oblivion Ring.
Zoo: Favorable. Kitchen Finks and Loxodon Hierarch 2- or 3-for-1 them, as do EE and Pernicious Deed. All your creatures are bigger than theirs anyway. As long as you play around Price of Progress you should be fine.
Landstill: Favorable. EE and Deed are awesome against Decree/Elspeth tokens. The Vindicate/Waste strategy is most applicable here, to keep them off of four mana. Kitchen Finks is awesome, sometimes 2-for-1ing them. All your threats are huge, so it only takes 4 or 5 swings to kill them.
Dredge: Unfavorable. Pre-board, you have a better shot than most decks due to EE and Deed. Post-board, you get Extirpate, Infest, and Gaddock Teeg, but the resiliency of Dredge decks against hate is ridiculous these days.
ANT: Very unfavorable. You basically can't win pre-board. Post-board, you get Gaddock Teeg, Duress, and Extirpate, but it still isn't enough. You might win one game out of three much of the time, but winning two out of three is pretty difficult.
Countertop: I'm probably not justified in grouping these all together. I also haven't tested very much against this particular matchup. However, most of your threats are at 3 cc, so the softlock isn't very effective, albeit still annoying. I'd say slightly favorable for most Countertop decks.
Well, that's it. Any constructive criticism is greatly appreciated, as I will probably build this deck some time in the future. Thanks.
Last edited by brianw712; 12-22-2009 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Minor spelling/grammar mistakes
You can url them to magiccards.info for instance. Just like you can also redirect people to other threads: The Rock. If I were you, I'd post this list in there, so we can actually discuss it without the thread getting locked.
Oh, and IBL![]()
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
With the amount of lifegain your deck can potentially gain, I can't help but think Sylvan Library might perhaps be superior to the top.
Also, is your matchup vs zoo really that favorable? Without any kind of mana excell it looks like your looking at turn 3 or 4 until you can drop Finks or loxodon by then aren't you within bolt striking range?
im not a huge rock player but i had a friend that ran a deck very similar to this and he ran glittering wish witch was amazing for him hits maelstrom pulse, Deed, wheel of sun and moon, vexing shusher, firespout, hull breech, loxodon hierarch, gerrald's verdict, teeg, the list goes on and on.. just something to think about.
maze of ith and murmuring bosk are both amazing with knight
Oran-Rief the Vastwood has good synergy with Kitchen Finks.
Cabal Therapy is a good way to abuse the Persis to finks as well for disruption.
@mmmetaphor: I like Top better than Library because Library gets blown up by Deed and Explosives. Also, there's a lot of things I can do in the Zoo matchup to keep damage off me the first few turns: Swords to Plowshares, Goyf into Path to Exile = four land by turn three, EE for 1 on turn one to be set off turn two. In total, there are 11 Goyfs, Swords, and EEs in the deck, meaning there's a high probability of having one in the opening hand. Also, turn one Top could potentially set you up for a Swords turn two.
@Shai tan teh reaper: I admit I haven't tried Glittering Wish, or any Wish, in this build yet, but I just don't like Wishes in general since they are slow and, most importantly, they take up sideboard space. I'll try it out though. Maze of Ith and Murmuring Bosk are fantastic suggestions, I'll definitely try those out.
@rukcus: Oran-Rief the Vastwood seems interesting, but it would have to replace Treetop Village, and it seems that Treetop is just better. Since all my threats are all already pretty big (Knight, Doran, Goyf), it seems like threat quantity (Treetop) is more important than threat size (Oran-Rief) at this point. As for Therapy, I just don't think that the strategy of discard in general is very effective in today's environment, particularly against zoo. I've found that a removal-heavy list improves every matchup except for combo, and adding discard would mean removing removal.
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