[Deck] Angry Mangara Survival

[Brushwagg]

I've been working on this deck for a little bit. I've been playing with White in my Survival build since Rav block because of Loxodon Heirarch. Now since Timspiral has given us Mangara it really made white and even better option.

What I wanted to here was make a Survival deck that could win against combo, control, and still go aggro.

// Lands
1x Tropical Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Forest
4x Savannah
4x Taiga
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1x Genesis
1x Anger
3x Flametongue Kavu
3x Basking Rootwalla
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
2x Eternal Witness
1x Mystic Enforcer
4x Loxodon Hierarch
1x Keldon Vandals
1x Quirion Ranger
2x Mangara of Corondor
2x Glow Rider

// Spells
4x Survival of the Fittest
4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1x Spore Frog
SB: 1x Pyroclasm
SB: 2x Hail Storm
SB: 3x Meddling Mage
SB: 3x Abeyance
SB: 1x Loaming Shaman
SB: 3x Krosan Grip
SB: 1x Open Slot

Yes 61 cards. I really don't like going over it, but I wanted to get Glow Rider in there.

Card choices:

Lands: Umm need those to win.

Birds: More mana.

Rofellos: Even more mana.

Genesis: Brings back threats.

Anger: Makes everything you play have Haste.

Squee: Staple of Survival.

FTK: 4/2 deals 4 damage to any creature. Pretty much a staple of Survival.

Basking Rootwalla: Awesome with Survival. Put into play and you get another creature.

Eternal Witness: Searchable regrowth. Staple.

Mystic Enforcer: Late game Muscle.

Elephant Pope: Better then Baloth. Reason to Splash White.

Mangara of Corondor: Amazing. Removing threats, lands, etc... from the game is awesome. Combos with Quirion Ranger and Tradewind.

Quirion Ranger: Untaps things. Makes Mangara a bigger house.

Keldon Vandals: Ok Zealot can take a big dump. In here just because of of the 4 power with 3cc. Could be Stamphowler but 5 mana is is really outside the curve of this deck.

Survival:Ummm duh.

Aether Vial: Some people are unhappy with it, but I like it alot. Helps out with the CC of alot of creatures. Also makes them uncounterable.

STP: The best critter contol ever.

S/B:

Mangara: See above.

Frog: Random aggro. With Genesis it's a lock.

Pyroclasm: Random aggro/Goblins.

Hail Storm: See above.

Meddling Mage: Searchable pc to help aganist Combo. But can also help in the control match naming counterspells or other random things. Really only dead in the littlekid.dec match up.

Abyeance: More Combo hate.

Loaming Shaman:For Gro. Survive for a Tormod's Cyrpt.

Krosan Grip:Proved Better then Naturalize. Seemed slow at first, but awesome in the control match. The 1 extra mana for Split second is worth it.

Before anyone says something, yes I know Goblin Sharpshooter isn't there. I've not been impressed with him at all. Plus with all the Gro and Combo as of late he is dead alot of the time. So unless something changes I'll probaly leave him on the bench for a while.

[Cavius The Great]

Do you have any way of recurring Mangara from in and out of play? That would be pretty sick if you discovered a card that could do that.

[Finn]

Tradewind: Here mainly to bounce Mangara. I need to get some some more testing in to see if it's needed or just become the 3rd Mangara in the main.

Yes, he does. But he is apparently unconvinced of its utility. Seeing as how it is the only blue element in the deck, I am rather skeptical myself.

I have some questions. I wanted to make this as well. I even posted a decklist somewhere, but I have been too occupied elsewhere to try to work it out. I'm certain there are other folks toying with this as well. Anyway, I have to ask the obvious first.

Is this better than Welder Survival? My instincts say "no" which is why I have never seriously pursued it. Certainly it has a different focus, being more aggro oriented with Mangara as the cheif form of disruption.

Is it better than GRSA? This is a harder call, since that deck is closer in function and composition. How about GRBSA? Or GRWSA? This is getting confusing.

Did you try out Karakas instead of Tradewind Rider?

Do you find that you want Mangara every game, or just against certain decks?

This is likely to lose to a decent combo deck, I am afraid. Have you tested this seriously yet?

[NoGameShow]

This seems very reminiscent of Macguyver and in that spirit I don't think blue is a needed comodity in this deck I mean Tradewind Rider is nice and it combos in a very good way with Mangara but how often you find this combo hitting the table. To me it looks like quite the long shot. Also I like Scryb Ranger over Quirion Ranger these days it costs one more mana but can played as an instant and can block blue creatures like Sea Drake all day.

[Complete_Jank]

I'm with Finn on this one. This isn't as strong as Welder Survival.

[Cavius The Great]

Yes, he does. But he is apparently unconvinced of its utility. Seeing as how it is the only blue element in the deck, I am rather skeptical myself.

I have some questions. I wanted to make this as well. I even posted a decklist somewhere, but I have been too occupied elsewhere to try to work it out. I'm certain there are other folks toying with this as well. Anyway, I have to ask the obvious first.

Is this better than Welder Survival? My instincts say "no" which is why I have never seriously pursued it. Certainly it has a different focus, being more aggro oriented with Mangara as the cheif form of disruption.

Is it better than GRSA? This is a harder call, since that deck is closer in function and composition. How about GRBSA? Or GRWSA? This is getting confusing.

Did you try out Karakas instead of Tradewind Rider?

Do you find that you want Mangara every game, or just against certain decks?

This is likely to lose to a decent combo deck, I am afraid. Have you tested this seriously yet?

How exactly does that work? Mangara doesn't have a CIP effect, it's removed from the game. How exactly do you bounce something that's removed from the game?

I also think that Living Wish could be pretty nasty with Mangara.

[Jaynel]

It's removed from the game upon resolution, so you can activate it then bounce or whatever in response.

[goldenj]

It seems like a green based Mangara deck would want living wish. Blue, red, double white, heavy green seems hard to support. I think the haste is more important than the bounce for this, don't you? Maybe a white way to sacrifice mangara with the effect on the stack is what's needed, then recur with Genesis.

The mangara disruption is too slow vs. most combo and ultra-aggro, and I don't see the plan for either, here.

[Brushwagg]

Some good points made. I'm not totally sold on Tradewind, as I have stated. It's nice to bounce Mangara, but seems kinda meh. Most testing is needed.

I was main decking Meddling Mage, but moved them to the board since my meta is heavy aggro. If I were going to a bigger tourney then they would move back into the main.

I'm not always looking for Mangara every game since I have answers to most things. However if my opponent is missing land drops I will go for Mangara to hit some lands, then Glow Rider. These 2 together are quite good.

It seems like a green based Mangara deck would want living wish. Blue, red, double white, heavy green seems hard to support. I think the haste is more important than the bounce for this, don't you? Maybe a white way to sacrifice mangara with the effect on the stack is what's needed, then recur with Genesis

I put together a list with Living Wish and Slide, and it turned out terrible.

The mana base is quite solid plus you have Birds and Vials to help out with casting costs. As far a White sacrifice outlet?? Not sure what you had in mind here.

The mangara disruption is too slow vs. most combo and ultra-aggro, and I don't see the plan for either, here.

Despite the name it's not a heavy Mangara deck.

@Combo: SB Meddling Mage, Abyeance, Dosan(might be leaving)
MD Glow Rider, Mangara to hit lands.

@Aggro:Lets see here. MD: FTK, Pope, STP just to name a few.
SB:Hail Storm, Pyroclasm, and Spore Frog.

I hear reading is tech.

[Cavius The Great]

It's removed from the game upon resolution, so you can activate it then bounce or whatever in response.

They should really errata that.

[Eldariel]

They should really errata that.

It's intentional, no hope of that.

[Cavius The Great]

It's intentional, no hope of that.

I really don't think that R&D meant for it to work that way. When people start abusing stuff like that, that's when they errata shit.

[Eldariel]

I really don't think that R&D meant for it to work that way. When people start abusing stuff like that, that's when they errata shit.

I'm very sure they did. It's a very simple wording, one that they've been doing for years and couldn't have possibly missed, especially with development. It's very intentional and I'm sure it has something to do with the Anagram (I honestly can't believe it's an anagram of corndoor...). Besides, they've quit errataing cards years and years ago, save for that one little slip regarding certain Soratami, which turned creatures powerless for good instead of 'until end of turn' like was intended. But that was a print error. This was even featured in the Pro Tour: Kobe coverage, so it's very intentional, even encouraged. What good are funky rules if you never get to utilize them? Magus of the Disk falls to the same category, it destroys itself as a part of resolution, like the original Disk, so you get to return it to hand, or phase it out, or whatever in response.

[goldenj]

@Combo: SB Meddling Mage, Abyeance, Dosan(might be leaving)
MD Glow Rider, Mangara to hit lands.

@Aggro:Lets see here. MD: FTK, Pope, STP just to name a few.
SB:Hail Storm, Pyroclasm, and Spore Frog.

So what's happening maindeck, was my point. They'll be sideboarding pithing needle half the time, when we're talking game 2 and 3, which makes survival and mangara sketchy without answers. The amount of answers SB is another argument in favor of living wish.

Combo: 1 turn 3 or 4 Glowrider is not going to stop IggyPop or Solidarity, in my experience. Even if followed by turn 4 or 5 Mangara. Your recursion is slow, so you need a way to live long enough to get it.

Aggro: there's a better argument for this. Although your best answers are cc=4, there is the mana acc. and STP. Still seems shaky to me.

Mostly I was asking about your testing.

White sacrifice: I was thinking white/land...like Highmarket, Martyr's Cause, Fanatical Devotion, etc. So you can activate Mangara, then sac, for Witness or Genesis recursion. That would also allow you to sac and recur witness and hierarch. The resource denial theme even led me to think about Shivan Harvest (tho' no help vs Solidarity or Goblins=bad).

Blue bounce: have you tried waterfront bouncer? You've got Squee to support if the U is really not a problem.

The deck just feels unfocused and very midrange, and a lot of decks like that get rolled in today's 1.5. The slackest spots are Basking Rootwalla, 2nd and 3rd FTK, Vandals (<Orangutan or Viridian Shaman orZealot), and Aether Vial.

[Blair Phoenix]

Have you considered Harmonic Sliver in place of Keldon Vandals? While not a big part of legacy, The Enchantment destruction could be useful in some cases.

[Brushwagg]

@GoldenJ:Yes I know 1 Glowrider isn't going to stop Solidarity or Iggy by itself. I'm currently looking into adding 1-2 more some where between the main and board. But to answer your concern: Glowrider along with Meddling Mage, can stop combo. Add in Mangara to take out lands, artifacts, etc.. then it really hurts them.

@Sac outlets:None can be found with Survival.

@Aggro:Other then Goblins I can beat any other aggro deck out there without having to go to the board. STP is the best removal in the game. FTK is another slot of removal that happens to swing for 4.

@At the bounce slot:I'm not even totally sure it is needed. But while Waterfront Bouncer is awesome, Tradewind is better in that slot because he can bounce permanent not just creatures.

@Rootwalla:Awesome. PLay him with Madness(0) then go get another creature. Nuff said.

@Vandals:They are the same as Sex Monkey/Shaman. Except they have echo and are 4/1.

I question if you have even tryed this deck or for that matter any Survival deck at all. If you want to play Living Wish go ahead and post it somewhere else please.

@Harmonic Sliver:Not sure. It's a 1/1 and I really like the 4 power of Vandals.

On another note I found that Humility spells big trouble. If I were expecting it every time, I would be siding Naturalize/Disenchant.

[scrumdogg]

Awesome deck idea, if you can survive to get the lock. I like the trend of the deck so far. To those advocating Harmonic Sliver, it is a one shot without other slivers & how many enchantments do you expect to face Game 1? Unless Confinement or Loam/Assault becomes big, you can leave the enchantment hate in the SB, just like Nat has done. Tradewind bounces permanents and gets stupid with Ranger (Quirion or Scryb, I like Scryb btw, since it can be an instant. Admittedly this is more relevant with Rofellos since I now can cast Ranger in response to removal aimed at Rofellos...but flying, pro blue instant seems worth an extra 1). Rootwallas are so good in a SotF deck, their synergy with Survival is very good and they are instants. That can't be stated enough - they are instant speed creatures which replace themselves and pump. Chain of Lizards has won a bunch of games EOT by completely sodomizing my opponents combat math calculations :) They make great insta-blockers as well & can be cast normally Turn 1 to block Lackey, which is important. Vandals are fine, I've used them before as 4 power can be quite relevant & quite frankly who cares if they get blocked? They're going to die anyway - either to echo or as a blocker. Dying is often an advantage with Genesis & Witness, especially if you need multiple uses, it can really suck to have an Uktabi sitting there, inaccessible, when you need to re-use artifact kill.

My questions come from certain choices. Why no Jotun Grunt either main or side? They help against 2 of the top 3 decks & aren't bad against Goblins. They also help against other matchups like Iggy & Reanimator & Friggorid & Salvagers etc. Abeyance is a good card, but in my testing to date Angel's Grace has been very good, especially with Jotun Grunt. 1x Pyroclasm, 2x Hail Storm seems interesting, getting around Meddling Mage & hitting different matchups? Why not 2 & 2? Shoring up Goblins is always good....or maybe 1 & 3 at that point.... Have Dosan & Loaming been helpful? If so, how often & against which decks? Other possible cards for SB consideration that I would be interested to get feedback about include Krosan Grip (Vial, CotV or Needle backed by counters, mirror match, Humility - especially with a Witness in hand..., Assault, Confinement, Moat, Jitte etc etc), more Tin-Street Hooligans as everybody has Needle in SB & it was tailor-made to monkeyfuck SoTF. Tin-Street is an efficient creature on it's own at 2 power for 2 mana but tough to find as a 1 of.

[NoGameShow]

If this deck runs rootwalla I would really like to see it run Primal Forcemage. Chaining rootwallas with forcemage in play and anger in the yard can be a savage and sometimes game winning beating.

[bigbear102]

@Jotun Grunt: My personal testing with Grunt in this deck is showing that he's not the greatest. With Survival in play you want Squee, Anger, and Genesis in the yard, not synergistic w/ Grunt, especially with Enforcer as your beater/finisher. Against Iggy/Gro he is a very powerful card, but other than that he just sits there.

@Combo: Iggy has yet to be extensively tested, but Solidarity actually seems winnable, something very few Survival decks to date have been able to say. My version has Mages MD, and those with Glowrider rape Solidarity. Name Mage on High Tide, then Survival for Rider, then name Mage on Wish, then you have won the game. Turn 2 Mage is very possible, and it's very good when you have a decent clock behind it.


goldenj:
"So what's happening maindeck, was my point. They'll be sideboarding pithing needle half the time, when we're talking game 2 and 3, which makes survival and mangara sketchy without answers. The amount of answers SB is another argument in favor of living wish.

Combo: 1 turn 3 or 4 Glowrider is not going to stop IggyPop or Solidarity, in my experience. Even if followed by turn 4 or 5 Mangara. Your recursion is slow, so you need a way to live long enough to get it.

Aggro: there's a better argument for this. Although your best answers are cc=4, there is the mana acc. and STP. Still seems shaky to me. "

First of all, Glowrider comes out turn 2 w/acceleration, so does MM. You don't drop Survival against Combo when you have combo hate in your hand. You play the hate, then drop survival and get more to stomp them.

I'm pretty sure aggro is a decent matchup, considering we play creatures+selection+swords.

SB would have to include naturalize, or some form of non-creature removal.

[Brushwagg]

@Scrumdogg:I was wondering when you see this. Ok on to some stuff you brought up.

@Grunt:As Bigbear already said after doing more testing he ended up kinda meh. While I like the 4/4 for 2 most times he was more trouble then he was worth. If I had a way to really fill the yard then I would include him.

@Dosan:He probably is going to be leaving the SB. Not sure what to replace him with as of yet.

@Shaman:Comes in the Gro match. Steals Threshold pretty much at instant speed with Vial. He can also come in the Iggy match.

@Hailstorm and Pyroclasm numbers:Yes a 2 and 2 split could happen quite easy. I'm currently trying to reconfigure the SB and tweak the main. Trying to sqeeze as much testing in as my limited time allows.

@Tradewind:On the way out. Have to find a replacement for it. I'm thinking another Mangara or something. Need a little more time to think on the replacement.

I also want to get some non-creature artifact and enchanment hate in the board. Since I've found out the hard way that Humility is bad times for me.