Over the weekend, D+T went top4 in Syracuse and (top4?) in Minnesota. It has been winning or placing consistently in Massachusettes, Florida, and Alabama for a while now.
D+T by PhaerimmArchlord, 7/29/07
4x serra avenger
4x silver knight
4x meddling mage
3x stoneckoaker
3x isamaru
3x mangara
2x jotun grunt
4x jitte
4x STP
3x stifle
2x E.explosives
4x aether vial
4x flooded straind
4x tundra
2x flaggstones
4x karakas
1x island
1x windswept
4x plains
S.B.
3x samuri otPC
3x tivadar
4x disenchant
2x jotun grunt
1x stifle
2x E.explosives
-------------------------------------------
D+T by Finn, 7/27/07
-1cc
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Mana Tithe
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
-2cc
2 True Believer
4 Serra Avenger
3 Silver Knight
3 Umezawa's Jitte
-3cc
3 Stonecloaker
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mangara of Corondor
-4cc
3 Cataclysm
-Land
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Flagstones of Trokair
10 Plains
-sb:
1 Condemn
1 True Believer
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar of Thorn
1 Silver Knight
2 Disenchant
------------------------------------------------------------
We need the Minnesota build. I don't even know who played it.
But this is what we have always maintained:
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Mangara of Corondor
Serra Avenger
Stonecloaker
Jotun Grunt
Karakas
mana denial and taxing effects
The question is still "Which build, if any particular one, is best?" Or will this deck turn into something like Landstill or Survival, with many flavors?
Last edited by CleverPetriDish; 07-30-2007 at 12:45 PM.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in the old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are,
One equal-temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
- Lord Alfred Tennyson
Most creative use of Karakas ever.
First he could NOT play two Karakas, they are legendary!
But...
..wow, this looks really nice!
This deck should have a nice game aganist the top Tier decks, especially after sideboarding.
But what makes this deck good is the enormous amount of sinergies it has:
Karakas can do wonders with Hokori, Isamaru and Mangara.
Vial Can do the same with Serra Avenger, Mangara and a surprise spell-fizzling True Beliver.
It also slows down other decks with Tangle Wire, Hokori and ports.
If I had to chenge something I would try to add Weathered Wayfarer wich is really nice with Karakas and Port. I'd also cut the fourth Karakas.
Right now it's the best legacy WW I've seen, and I think it could really do wonders (even shake the metagame if people starts playing it).
Mmm, ya, it looks about right. It's funny how Silver Knight doesn't even feel like it'd belong since the deck has just plain size to deal with Gobs, making Silver Knight just a poor card in general. Anyhow, definitely puts the new breed of white creatures into good use (Serra Avenger, Jotun Grunt), I wouldn't like playing against that. Definitely uses Vial well too. It might actually not scoop to combo too with True Believer/Vial shenanigans present in the main to steal some games, Jotun Grunt to steal some more, Hokori to bully decks that play setup spells, and finally Mangara to just put it away once he gets to that point. Oh, and Tangle Wire. The only card that looks iffy is Sensei's Divining Top, but I guess the midgame approach of this deck makes it a viable inclusion, and Razor Golem with 8 non-Plains (Exalted Angel?). I wonder if it has any issues with Goblins seeing the lack of any sweeper-effects (Parallax Wave, Umezawa's Jitte) and evasion in the MD though.
Last time I saw maindecked Karakas was when some dude's deck went up constantly against an Aether Snap - Dark Depths deck. Somehow this deck leefs like it would enjoy a red splash for Anger... alot.Originally Posted by Vardaman
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
With 8 non-plains lands in the deck, how good is Razor Golem? Isn't it going to come out turn 4 most of the time? I like the fact that it has Vigilance though. I really like Eldariel's suggestion of Exalted Angel, because there isn't any difference when it comes to Vial, and it's a much more potent threat with a similar ability to Vigilance (offence + defense).
How has Sensei's Divining Top been? I could see it having poor synergy with Hokori, but alright-ish synergy with all of the fetchlands. I don't know if it belongs in a deck that needs its mana to cast creatures and beat down, and only 22 lands.
I love the Karakas utility, and I would consider adding the extra Isamaru to the deck because the first will most likely get killed, and you further improve the chances of hitting the combo, and it makes your curve that much better. I know that I would want at least a few more legendary creatures to abuse what looks to be one of the most potent combos in the deck. Eight-And-A-Half Tails looks like it could be pretty slick as a one or two of.
Has Glowrider been considered? It's boarded in a lot of white-based control deck for its ability to slow combo's clock down, and could very well do the same here. It could supliment True Believer in the anti-control/combo suite. The board seems like a fitting place for what is essentially a hate card.
-4 Razor Golem
-3 Sensei's Divining Top
+4 Exalted Angel
+2 Eight-and-a-Half Tails
+1 Isamaru
I think that could strengthen the deck a good deal. I'd have to play it a little bit to see how SDT works with the deck as a whole, but I think that 8 1/2 Tails could do just as well, if not better.
KIDS WITH GUNS!
Hey folks. It wasn't me who played you, Petri, but this appears to be my deck.
Eldariel, you mentioned Silver Knight. Once I began playing Tivadar of Thorn, the deck became just sick against Gobs. Tivadar comes in and out of play over and over, killing Goblins when he comes in and again when he blocks, only to leave play again after I attack so he can repeat it all. I have not been using the Silver Knight long, but I bet they will turn me into the aggressor against Goblins. And when I can get some Stonecloakers, I intend to try them out.
sb so far:
4 Tivadar of Thorn
1 Jotun Grunt
3 Silver Knight
3 Disenchant
4 Glowrider
This deck still has a rough matchup against combo. Orim's Chant or Abeyance is probably a good bet.
KIDS WITH GUNS!
Death and Taxes would probably have to run each as a 4-of and I'm not sure there's room in the board for that. For those who've played the deck, what's it like against Solidarity and IGGy? If you play True Believer, does it give you enough time to get a soft lock? Remand targeting Tangle Wire seems ridiculous for Solidarity to buy time to win.
Heh. I should have figured it was one of Finn's crazy concoctions. Anyway, I played this deck a bit. It plays very well, but I am not sure about Razor Golem. The Vigilance is really nice, but it didn't seem to be hitting play on turn 3 like it should. Call me nuts, but I am thinking that Serra Angel may be the right choice here.
I haven't had a chance to playtest the deck yet, but I'm inclined to agree that Razor Golem looks bad on paper. The Plains count is super low to be supporting it.
Finn, I know you tested Glowrider in one of your other builds... why did it get cut, and why isn't it in the Razor Golem slot? It just seems to complement the deck's strategy so well it would seem like an auto-include, particularly because it's a total house against Thresh and combo.
@Glowrider, perhaps the sb I have been using will shed some light.Finn, I know you tested Glowrider in one of your other builds... why did it get cut, and why isn't it in the Razor Golem slot? It just seems to complement the deck's strategy so well it would seem like an auto-include, particularly because it's a total house against Thresh and combo.
4 Tivadar of Thorn
3 Disenchant
4 Glowrider
1 Jotun Grunt
3 Silver Knight
Glowrider is the-tits versus a lot of control and combo decks as long as you are disrupting their mana in other ways as well. However, I am done putting it in the main as long as Goblins is around. It is nearly unplayable against that deck the way STP is against Solidarity. Frankly I am not convinced it still belongs even in the sb with all the noncreature spells the deck has now, but since it was part of the original package, and is so good in certain situations anyway, he stays until he proves no good.
*****************************
@Razor Golem, he is filler until I can get my hands on some Stonecloakers.
2W (3), Creature — Gargoyle 3/2
Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant.)
Flying
When Stonecloaker comes into play, return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
When Stonecloaker comes into play, remove target card in a graveyard from the game.
Naturally this guy is untested, but it really seems tohave no downside.
Obviously you'd side them im over StP for the combo (and probably control) matchups, and your first Vial or Top is likely to hit play before Glowrider does, so really all you'd be slowing down is Tangle Wire. Seems fair to me. They fit the deck's strategy so well I'm thinking they probably belong, at least in the SB.
Gargoyle's P/T are backwards for Goblins, but the P/T is the right way around against Threshold if you catch my drift. It does have some sick interaction with Calciderm if that has any place in this deck at all, which it definately could, possibly in the place of Razor Golem.
Calciderm over Razor Golem is a hard choice considering they would cost the same thing. One is good against control and Threshold, the other is slightly worse against Thresh, but far better against Goblins. Calciderm is probably better against randomness and Swords.
KIDS WITH GUNS!
1. You can't run Calciderm over Razor Golem because of its synergy with Gargoyle, because Gargoyle is already replacing Golem.
2. Calciderm doesn't cost the same as Golem; with 3 Plains out, it costs 3, not 4.
Calciderm has decent synergy with Gargoyle, but you'd have to do a heavy reworking of the deck to fit them both, and you'd lose a lot of the other inherent synergies available to you.
About number 2, I'd expect Razor to come out around turn 4 a lot of the time, due to almost half of your manabase being nonbasic.
I also realize that you have to take cards out to put new ones in, but as most suggestions go, you look to make room in the deck by taking out the currently worst card, whatever that may be.
If there was a way to add haste to the deck without f-ing it up too much, then I think Calciderm might be a good choice. [b]Hall of the Bandit Lord[b], though pretty costly life-wise, could help the deck a lot. I'll try it out and tell you what I think.
Imagine hasty Calciderms, Jotun Grunts, Mangaras and whatnot. Could it work?
EDIT: Wait, Hall of the Bandit Lord? What the fuck was I thinking. It sucks.
KIDS WITH GUNS!
Sigh...I'm so disapointed in you guys. Where the heck are the wayfarers?
Respond to fetch-> wayfarer activation, get any land (card advantage)
not to mention a much more stable manabase...
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
I put the sideboard into the first post for you guys. I also read some of the stuff being said in various boards and made some other changes to the deck.
Weathered Wayfarer is a good idea. So is Calciderm.
I played this deck a lot on MWS this week. I learned that it is in need of some draw or something, as its long game is garbage. However, I also learned that it plays excellent aggro-control even without the cool legend elements. Do we really need them?
Wayfarer is better than draw. Its a tutor, and always card advantage. Plus it gives you something else to put into play with Vial at 1.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
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