[Help]ing out the kids.

[dahcmai]

You know I was reading the thread on Undeveloped Metagame and got to thinking that would make for a good idea.

We actually could use a thread devoted to making decks on the cheap so people could hand out the lists to the locals and they wouldn't have a hard time building the decks. Not everyone owns a set of Duals and just about as few own Goyfs or even Ravagers for that matter.

Why not have a list of decent decks that don't cost an arm and a leg to make? I'd definitely hand the lists out to the kids. It seems all they can make is half-asses goblins or bad Burn if you don't help them. I don't see them come up with much else that can even win a game. It's be nice to give them an edge.

I'm a Mr. Suitcase type so I really haven't ever tried to make cheap decks. So list what decks you know that can be made cheaply and still hold up (or at least not die horridly) under a fully healthy Legacy meta. I for one will print them out and hand them out to the kids in my area to lend a hand. We have an extreme amount of good players and I think it would help immensely.

Can anyone fill this stuff in?

A decent list for Affinity without Ravagers
Goblins on the cheap
Can Death and Taxes be done cheaply?
Thresh without the duals and goyf?
Sui black even viable?

[Illissius]

Here's what I can think of which is relatively inexpensive:

Affinity (expensive: Ravager)
Ichorid (expensive: LED)
Dragon Stompy (expensive: Chrome Mox, Jitte, City of Traitors)
Burn (expensive: Chain Lightning)
Goblins (expensive: Piledriver, Lackey, Wasteland)
Belcher (expensive: LED, Chrome Mox, Burning Wish, 1 Taiga or Stomping Grounds)

(I used "above $4" as the threshold for "expensive", and looked at prices with Datatog.)

Of course, if the criteria is not using any expensive cards, things change, because some of them are critical to making the respective decks functional.

Here's an Ichorid list without LED:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
2 Deep Analysis
1 Tireless Tribe

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

SB: 4 Darkblast
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Ray of Revelation
SB: 2 Wax // Wane

[sunshine]

wow I always thought LED was only like five bucks, crazy how much it's gone up in price.

I think the best intro deck for someone who has no legacy staples is a budget Ug thresh build, something like this:

// Lands
7 Forest
11 Island

// Creatures
4 Werebear
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Trygon Predator

// Spells
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
3 Portent
4 Daze
3 Predict
2 Snapback
1 Rushing River

Of course the first priority is to fill in the FoW and fetches. While this is certainly watered down, you still get broken stuff like the counter/top engine. Actually I think the tops and counterbalances are the most expensive things in the list, I would be surprised if it cost more than $50 altogether.

Also if a new player is going to invest in a deck I think it's best to go for one for that includes lots of format staples like Brainstorm/Daze/Top/Counterbalance etc.

[sunshine]

Also if you wanted to make it a little more interesting you could add red to make a budget moon-thresh, you would get lightning bold as well as magus/blood moon both of which are under five dollars a piece.

[GreenOne]

Here's what i'd play if i was REALLY poor:
// Lands
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [MR] Ancient Den
4 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AQ] Atog
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Myr Enforcer
4 [AQ] Ornithopter

// Spells
4 [10E] Chromatic Star
2 [MR] Welding Jar/Tormod's
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating

The entire deck is 21.30$.
Then obviously when you have money you can buy ravagers, needles and the other shit. The deck is totally inexpensive in its core however.

I like a lot the list Illisius posted for a LED-less Ichorid. The deck can really be good anyway without it.

Those two are probably the best legacy decks in power/cost ratio, and can be improved for just a little money.

[FoolofaTook]

If a person wants any chance to be competitive in a typical Legacy tournament with a very cheap deck mono-black is still probably the best option. There are a bunch of different ways to go in building it but the basic structure of the deck is probably going to be 20 land, 20 creatures, 20 disruption.

This would win some games against the typical metagame:

4x Duress $6
4x Hymn to Tourach $4
3x Diabolic Edict $5
3x Smallpox $3
2x Pox $4
2x Oath of Ghouls $1
2x Nevinyrral's Disk $10

4x Carnophage $1
4x Yixlid Jailor $1
3x Gutless Ghoul $1
3x Lord of the Undead $10
3x Graveborn Muse $3
3x Korlash, Heir to Blackblade $20

19x Swamp $1
1x Volrath's Stronghold $5

Sideboard

4x Dry Spell $1
4x Stromgald Crusader $6
1x Diabolic Edict $2
2x Nevinyrral's Disk $10
4x Engineered Plague $6

$100 even and it would be competitive against many decks. It would destroy Goblins after tuning, which may be the best reason to hand it to a newbie just learning the game, since getting blown out by Goblins in the first round is a pretty predictable thing.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Cheap Enchantress:

4x Argothian Enchantress ($24)
4x Enchantress's Presence ($8)
3x Sterling Grove (6)
1x Sylvan Library (2)
4x Ground Seal (6)

4x Utopia Sprawl (.2)
1x Wild Growth (.05)
4x Gaea's Touch (2)
3x Lotus Petal (10)

4x Elephant Grass (2)
2x Solitary Confinement (4)
1x Seal of Primordium (.05)
3x Replenish (15)
1x Sacred Mesa (2)
1x Choke (.5)
1x Runed Halo (4)

2x Serra's Sanctum (10)

95.8 for deck specific cards. You could run Temple Gardens, and it probably wouldn't make that big a difference; you'd still beat most aggro decks, and it wouldn't lose you an enormous number of games to your bad match-ups.

[Illissius]

Further options which don't usually see play in Legacy but are cheap and aren't entirely terrible:

Sligh (8 Jackal Pups!)
Suicide Black
Elves (see Dave Feinstein's list, cut Jitte, Garruk, Cradle, and Wasteland)
Merfolk (none of the important Merfolk are expensive, nor is Back to Basics; but you miss out on Force of Will and Brainstorm/Fetchland)

[xsockmonkeyx]

If a person wants any chance to be competitive in a typical Legacy tournament with a very cheap deck mono-black is still probably the best option. There are a bunch of different ways to go in building it but the basic structure of the deck is probably going to be 20 land, 20 creatures, 20 disruption.

Tombstalker Sui is better, and probably cheaper.

4x Dark Ritual
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach

4x Smallpox
4x Snuff out
3x Diabolic Edict

4x Hypnotic Specter$
4x Tombstalker$$
4x Nantuko Shade$$
4x Stromgald Crusader

4x Wasteland $$$
17x Snow Covered Swamp

4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Withering Wisps
4x Engineered Plague
4x Dystopia

Thats gotta be less than $100

[cloudstrife7]

Wow, this thread is almost exactly what I had been looking to start up for some help. I'm looking to start playing legacy on a budget, and I have a couple questions.

I've seen people talk about Merfolk, but I haven't seen a deck list. I have what I think is the core of a beginning merfolk deck, but I have no frame of reference other than kitchen table play (I would have to make cuts of course):
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Riptide Pilferer
4 Tidal warrior
4 Cursecatcher
4 Stonybrook Bannaret
4 Coral Trickster (hasn't been good enough for t2, so I doubt its an inclusion)

4 Daze
4 Echoing Truth
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Pulse of the Grid (so hot on turn 4 with a bannaret and a reejerey in play, also great if I'm losing to control, crappy when I'm winning)
(I've tested permutations of this against t2 elves, ext. Teps, that Dralnu deck that used to rock standard, and my friends use the deck as the early testing ground for wacko combo decks, so no real legacy stuff.)

I wouldn't be opposed to dropping $20 on aether vials and more pulses. I have all relevant 1 mana blue cantrips except ponder, which is cheap. Do I need rootwater thief, grimoire thief, or sygg? I don't have the dual lands necessary to run sygg smoothly.

Here are some other cards I have that could conceivably have a budget shell added to them.
4 Shriekmaw
2 Ghost council of Orzhova
4 Serra Avenger
1 Sword of light/shadow
1 Sword of fire/ice
4 Castigate
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Duress

Would a budget white/black aggro-control deck be possible with these cards? Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Aven Mindecensor, Yixlid Jailer, Spectral Lynx, Burrenton Forge-Tender, Ronom Unicorn, Glowrider, the 2cc pro-color knights, there are about a million budget disruptive weenies in these colors.

Which direction would be more effective with $20-$30 added to it? Would I be better off with the $20 affinity build that GreenOne listed?

[Sims]

Questions about merfolk, etc.

The original merfolk thread can be found here

There are a few different directions that you can go with the deck. It can follow a Merfolk/Wizard shell, go straight Merfolk Aggro, play tempo control, etc.... Just depends on what cards you have or have access to. The deck does hurt from the lack of Force of Will in the budget versions but that, sadly, cannot be helped.

[Illissius]

Well the Merfolk list I was thinking of starts out:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Back to Basics
4 Daze

...and then you really want to add Force of Will but can't. I suppose the list could continue:

4 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell

Which is 36 cards, and you could cut Counterspells if you want more room. You can fill it out with more Merfolk, Threads, Shackles, Jittes, Vials, (some of which cast moneys), or some way to draw cards would also be nice but the best I can think of are Curiosity and Mask of Memory. You could also go with Counterbalance/Top, but those aren't as great without fetchlands and Brainstorm. And then 18-22 basic Islands depending on whether you have Vial (less) and/or Shackles (more). Sideboard is blue Blasts, Crypts, Threads, Submerges, and whatever else you can think of.

EDIT: Seasinger plus all the stuff that makes your opponent's lands into Islands is also worth a look.

[Valtrix]

Oh, fun. A basic RB combo deck seems to be decent, I played something similar to this at my store for a few weeks, and it actually won a bit more than it lost (surprising, I know). It's not great, but pretty decent for it's cost. I actually prefer niv-mizzet curiosity, but that's a bit slower. It's really fun because so much draws =3 Only things that sucks here is the mana-base, three red is a bit hard, however manamorphose should make it more consistent.

4x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ($15)
4x Pestermite

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Manamorphose
3x Flash of Insight

4x Daze
4x Counterspell
4x Rune Snag

3x Electrolyze
2x Fire / Ice ($6)

10x Island
6x Mountain
4x Izzet Boilerworks

[xsockmonkeyx]

$115 Goblins

4 Aether Vial $10
4 Lackey $36
2 Ancient Tomb $4

4 Matron - $1
4 Ringleader - $8
4 Warchief - $6

2 Piledriver $24
3 SGC $9

4 Fanatic $3
4 Incinerator $1
3 Tinkerer $.30
1 King $.50
2 Goblin Burrows $.20

19 Mountain

3 Blood Moon $6
1 King $.50
4 Pyroblast $.40
3 Pyrokinesis $.30
4 Crypt $4


$90 without the Piledrivers.

[MasterC]

WR Rifter:

10 Plains
7 Mountain
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Forgotten Cave

4 Eternal Dragon $10
3 Humility $10
4 Lightning Rift
2 Pulse of the Fields
4 Swords to Plowshares $6
4 Decree of Justice $10
4 Abeyance $10
3 Radiant's Judgment
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Story Circle
1 Engineered Explosives $3
3 Wrath of God $20

-> $80 for the money cards

[GreenOne]

$115 Goblins

4 Aether Vial $10
4 Lackey $36
2 Ancient Tomb $4

4 Matron - $1
4 Ringleader - $8
4 Warchief - $6

2 Piledriver $24
3 SGC $9

4 Fanatic $3
4 Incinerator $1
3 Tinkerer $.30
1 King $.50

21 Mountain

3 Blood Moon $6
1 King $.50
4 Pyroblast $.40
3 Pyrokinesis $.30
4 Crypt $4


$90 without the Piledrivers.

21 Red Sources is a LOT. I'd play -2 mountains +2 Goblin Burrows. This is gonna help the landstill matchup (humility), and maybe the thresh match too (trading Goose can help) for virtually no cost, both in manabase stability and $.

[xsockmonkeyx]

21 Red Sources is a LOT. I'd play -2 mountains +2 Goblin Burrows. This is gonna help the landstill matchup (humility), and maybe the thresh match too (trading Goose can help) for virtually no cost, both in manabase stability and $.

Yes, thanks. I put Burrows in the list for the other thread but forgot it here >_<

[Ozymandias]

Budget Pox

4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Innocent Blood

1 Nether Spirit
4 Scalding Tongs
4 The Rack

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Anything

23 Swamp

[dahcmai]

Almost forgot about these.


Green Stompy

5 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Quirion Ranger

3 Vine Dryad
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skaggan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Street Wraith

4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Giant Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa

Don't even need the fetchland really, but it's not bad compared to what you're paying for the rest anyway.



Rabid Wombat (it's an old list, but still cheap.)

9x Snow-Covered Plains
10x Plains
3x Secluded Steppe

4x Eternal Dragon
4x Decree of Justice

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Humility
3x Wrath of God
4x Wing Shards

4x Abeyance
4x Renewed Faith
4x Bandage
2x Akroma's Vengeance
2x Rune of Protection: Red


Death and Taxes (might be a lil outdated but still good.)

3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial

2 True Believer
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger
4 Silver Knight

4 Glowrider
3 Stonecloaker
2 Mangara of Corondor

2 Hokori, Dust Drinker

4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
6 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Cataclysm


Salvagers (considering there's only 3 duals, it's not too horridly expensive overall)

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Living Wish
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Tainted Pact
4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
2 Nights Whisper
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Krosan Reclamation
2 Auriok Salvagers
3 Gamekeeper

1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plains
2 Snow Covered Forest
2 Forest
3 Snow Covered Swamp
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath



Oh and thanks a lot for the lists and help. I'll be handing these out at the local store. Maybe we'll gain a few more people when the newer players aren't getting smashed every week.

[Illissius]

I made a script to fetch price data from MOTL and calculate the price of a given decklist, according to it, that Salvagers list costs around $230, and the Ichorid list I posted is around $75. For reference, a random GBWr Survival list I had was over $600.

I do wonder if you couldn't put together something salvageable out of Land Grant, Tithe, Eternal Dragon, old-style fetchlands, Safewright Quest, and/or Terramorphic Expanse, along with singletons of the relevant shocklands. Of course, you can always just use multicolored lands which are strictly inferior to duals but much cheaper, like painlands.