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Cute, but doesn't really make any sense. What advantage would this list have over regular STORM? Maybe a little more resilient to discard as you can drop the pieces as you draw them. Besides that it just seems more fragile and turns on your opponent's creature removal. Maybe bringing in the painter combo from the SB against certain MUs like D&T?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysdai
I brewed up a painter storm list also lol, I also just think it can be transformational in any deck, you wouldn't expect it out of the miracles SB
Never recruited for it, but I like it b.c it flies under chancellor when on the draw. Losing to turn one reveal chancellor reanimate sire is not fun. My graveyard hate is a surgical, a faerie,a crypt, and a relic. But I also have 3 RB at my weekly events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
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I've also been working on a miracles version of painter haha (with a partially transformational side board into mentor)Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosjace
I've chalked this up into the "to narrow" category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo687
Sure you made a point about a specific case but I would imagine RIP surgical or crypt are all stronger choices in a 8 round tournament.
Yes the RB matchup can be challenging. But the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.
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Kind of a shot in the dark, but someone posted a picture of a scarecrow in one of their tournament reports a while ago. I think it was during the time period that people were discussing using wasteland in this deck. Anyone have that picture or can redirect me there without me having to thumb through all the previous posts? I might want to use it in a tattoo.
So I have decided to also do some brewing with this deck and am going to try out a red/black version for a while (chocolate cake?). I don't want to post the list until I have tried it out some more (although so far I am 3-0 on MTGO). My question is this, I have some amount of creature removal in the main (4 cards, spot removal) plus blasts. I have 3 open slots for creature removal in the sideboard. Probably looking for some form of mass removal and kinda wanting it to be one-sided. what would people play in these slots? It can be black or red. I DO NOT need the artifact removal of fiery confluence so I think those are out.
Here are some options:
Massacre (free)
sudden shock (uncounterable)
fatal push (cheap and hits most legacy creatures, goyf killer)
Toxic Deluge (not hurt by pro-black or mother)
Sudden Demise (one sided, usually)
Pyrokinesis ("free" and instant/surprise factor)
Pyroclasm (cheap)
bonfire (one sided and potentially instant speed)
lightning bolt (cheap, instant, goes to the face/jace)
Looking for some input as I am actually struggling with what best serves the current meta. Also, just to be clear, this is still in general a traditional painter list with the combo, blood moons, recruiters, blasts, and welders.
Nice, very interested in this list. I always liked the idea of splashing black just so that you have access to slaughter games. Good luck with it and looking forward to updates on this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Lost in finals of regional event today.
5-1 in semis punting to bug delver. Beating BURN twice, bant, Ant, tezz.
Beat bug and deathblade in t8. Lost of aggro loam in finals on awful draws.
Running it back tomorrow.....
60 was standard.
Sideboard was
2 ajani
2 kozilek return
1 sphere of law
1 enlightened tutor
1 trinisphere
1 canonist
1 spellskite
1 crypt
1 rip
1 plains
1 surgical
1 ensnaring bridge
1 hedgemage
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We will meet again.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
https://media.giphy.com/media/9D6OO5q09NMKk/giphy.gif
I would have gotten miracles another tournament win if it wasn't for you meddling kids and your janky Rw cards!Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Being sick this week I should have laid in bed resting all day but I have no self-control so I went to do battle at EE6 instead. A disappointing 178 people showed up. Seriously, if you live in the Northeast or Midatlantic and own Legacy you should attend these events. So I played the same list as my last event with zero changes.
Rd 1 - Damon “Parcher” Whitby on Dredge
G1 I love the validation of people knowing me as the Painter player. I also hate it. Turn one he blind therapies my grindstone after doing some dredge-y stuff. I top deck another because that’s how life works and play it. He does more dredge things. I resolve an Ensnaring Bridge with only one card in hand so his zombies can’t attack. Since he only has five cards in his deck and I have a grindstone that’s enough.
G2 I got dredged up
G3 He had a slow start and I’m able to quickly set up the combo with double blast backup.
SB: -5 moon. +1 Rest in Peace, 1 Tormod’s Crypt, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 1 Ratchet Bomb, 1 Trinisphere
(1-0)
Rd 2 – Dredge again
G1 – He did some dredgy things and I conceded to a T1 Cabal Therapy.
G2 – Did I mention how good Ensnaring Bridge is?
G3 – Opponent kept a hand missing an enabler. I get T1 Therapied and he misses. On his T2 he misses on narcomebas and can’t flash back therapy, I untap and play Rest In Peace against my hellbent opponent and the game is done.
SB: same as round 1.
(2-0)
Rd 3 – Nicholas DiJohn on Miracles.
Nick and I are friends, we’ve played this matchup before. I was “half” joking we were going to get featured. I was half right. We were the off-camera feature. I got demolished this round but wish I could go back and watch. These games were intricate so I won’t explain too much. There were a lot of decisions to be made in game one and I think if I had sequenced a little differently I could have won and stalled out game two but I’m not convinced I made the wrong choices with the information I had. I lost to a Back to Basics G1 and played very aggressive in G2 due to time constraints. I also realized at some point during that game I misboarded. Oh well, they were still good interesting games.)
(2-1)
Rd 4 – UR Delver (swiftspears, stormchaser mages, young pryos, heavy burn)
I get run over in 2 blisteringly fast games. I got dealt 14 in one turn. Hate this matchup.
SB: -5 Moon, 2 Enlightened Tutor. +3 Firebolt, Pyrokinesis, Ratchet Bomb, Trinisphere, Hedge Mage (for Vortex/Null Rod)
(2-2)
Rd 5 – Food Chain.
G1, Opponent kills me on turn 4, through me having blood moon out leaving him with mountains, a deathrite (no targets) an island, and a food chain. I pyroblasted the griffin thinking he wouldn’t be able to cast anything else for likely the whole game. He has Force backup with Emrakul in hand.
Game 2 I keep a one land hand with Top and die to Null Rod.
SB: - I don’t remember, +Bridge, Hedge Mage, Revoker
(2-3)
Rd 6 - Bug Delver (the first matchup I’m happy to see)
Another case of my opponent knowing what I’m on in advance.
G1 I resolved a moon early on and then a bridge and it was over.
G2 I mulliganed to 5. I mulliganed a lot throughout the day. I drew very well on this 5 though. Opponent represented Abrupt Decay the whole time so I baited with the combo, then resolved a Blood Moon. Then I could do whatever I saw fit for a while until I was able to win.
SB: -2 Enlighened Tutor, -1 Reb, -1 Recruiter, -1 Grindstone. +3 Firebolt, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 1 Ratchet Bomb.
(3-3)
Rd 7 – UG 12 Post
G1 was abysmal. I didn’t draw anything. He made a Primeval Titan, that cards scary.
G2 I keep a risky hand with a Painter’s Servant and a bunch of Pyroblasts. I blew up his Forest. I resolved a Moon. Then he went for a Chalice on one. I blew up his Island in response. He floated the blue and cast Show and Tell, which I was kind of waiting for. He put in Ulamog and I put in Ensnaring Bridge. A few turns later I drew Chandra and she won the game in quick fashion.
G3 I played 3 or 4 Blood Moons this game and Ultimated a Koth of the Hammer. I love me some planeswalkers. I hope he’s on Amonkhet for some reason.
SB: - 4 Grindstone +2 Koth, +1 Hedge Mage +1 Ensnaring Bridge
(4-3)
Rd 8 - Death and Taxes (Yes!! My favorite)
G1 I drew 10 lands and 5 spells…one of them was lotus petal.
G2 I resolved a Chandra and she pulled me very far ahead. I got to flashback a Firebolt this game and it was very relevant. I was able to ultimate Chandra but also activate the combo that turn.
G3 I thought I was going to lost to Thalia for a minute. He had a lot of Wastelands and Ports. Thankfully Top is really good. I cast Pyrokineses targeting a Mother of Runes, Recruiter of the Guard, and that Thalia knowing he’d be able to save one with Mom and another with a Vialed in Flickerwisp. He chose to let the Recruiter die which I think was a mistake. I was eventually able to resolve an Ensnaring Bridge. I followed that up by resolving a Chandra into a Revoker naming Vial. This was after he had cast multiple Swords on Painter’s and he didn’t have double white so I thought I would be safe this way. I was right. Eventually I ultimate Chandra and was able to dome him for 15 to finish the day 5-3 and win my entry fee back.
SB: -1 Magus, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Welder, 3 REB, 1 Pyroblast, 2 Tutor. +3 Firebolt, Bridge, Ratchet Bomb, Pyrokinesis, 2 Koth, Revoker, Hedge-Mage
(5-3)
All in all, reasonable day. Not thrilled about how I did, but not too upset. And had a lot of fun both playing Magic and seeing friends.
Congrats man! I haven't made any of the CK tourneys in months because of work, partially why I bought into mtgo recently, but I requested the April event off so I can actually get some paper practice in before vegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
What matchups do you bring in spellskite? It's a card I really like playing but in a deck like ours every single deck/sideboard slot counts and I always end up cutting it for something else. Obviously great against bolt decks, do you also bring it in to overload decay against bug/loam etc...?
It would have been quite the feat considering I wasn't playing Miracles!Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Dunno how deep into black you're going, but theres Marsh Casualties which is pretty good against all the BUG Control lists running 4x Noble and 4x TNN. Also kills Mom ded. And if you actually kick it (only 5 mana) it'll kill flipped Delver and DeathritesQuote:
Originally Posted by drude1
This not an obv kolhagans command inclusion?
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Wake up. Shower. Drive. I groggily stepped into Comic Cellar for Memphis Plays Legacy 1k. I never know quite what to expect when I walk into one of these, but regardless I'm going to paint some stuff blue like I always do.
The list I ran:
Land (19)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
4x Mountain
2x Plateau
2x Wooded Foothills
Instant (9)
3x Enlightened Tutor
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
Artifact (13)
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Grindstone
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Lotus Petal
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Creature (13)
3x Goblin Welder
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Painter's Servant
2x Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sideboard
1x Duergar Hedge-Mage
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Faerie Macabre
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Manic Vandal
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sphere of Law
2x Sulfur Elemental
1x Trinisphere
After filling out my decklist, I turn to my buddy and state, "I'm going to get paired vs. Burn round one, I'll lose super hard, like always and then I'll go home like the scrub I am."
Pairings go up, find my table and start shuffling.
R1: Burn - I guess I deserve this...
G1: He has me at 5 and I have the combo on board. Tap my Ancient Tomb + Mountain, going down to 3 activate Grindstone. He responds with Price of Progress, which is met with Pyroblast, which in turn is met with a confused look until I explained that everything is blue.
G2: I'm under the gun of two Goblin Guides and he passes back to me with 1 untapped Mountain. I cast LED, then Grindstone, then Painter's Servant and pass it back to him. On endstep he goes to bolt Painter and I crack LED in response to grind him out.
1-0-0
R2: R/G Lands - Time to get smacked with at 20/20
G1: I drop a quick Grindstone and tutor for Painter. He drops a Molten Vortex with 2 red up. Great. Untap, upkeep, draw. Lion's Eye Diamond. Sweet baby Jesus. I cast LED, then Painter and Pyroblast the Molten Vortex to force him into using it. He sees the same line as me and we move to G2.
G2: I drop a turn 1 Moon and it works against me as he drops a turn 2 Molten Vortex and promptly melts my face with it.
G3: Turn one Moon into turn 2 Painter + Pyroblast on his basic forest seal this one up.
2-0-0
R3: Burn - I need to work on my karma
G1: I get a quick combo and grind him out while I'm at 3 life and he's tapped out.
G2: He burns me out while I flounder looking for answers.
G3: With Lava Spikes and whatnot hitting me in the face, it's looking bleak. At the end of his turn 2 I Enlightened Tutor for Sphere of Law, the great, holy equalizer in the matchup. I draw it for turn, drop an Ancient Tomb and cast it, going to 8. "Response," he says. Oh, crap. He Fireblasts me down to 4. Not where I wanted to be. It resolves and I pass. He Lava Spikes me down to 3. Poop. I drop a Painter and pass with a fetchland and Ancient Tomb up. He casts Flame Rift and I fetch up a Mountain to Pyroblast it, dropping myself to 2. I draw LED, hold it in hand next to a Red Elemental Blast and contemplate how screwed I am with my Burn opponent sitting pretty at 20. He bolts me, down to 1 I go. I draw for turn. Grindstone. I cast LED and drop the stone which prompts another bolt to my face, which I redblast. Crack LED, drop hand, tap stone, flip deck.
3-0-0
4 of us being 3-0-0 means we get to double draw into top 8.
R4: ID
R5: ID
Quarterfinals:
We all decided to split the prize pool among the top 8 and well all get $125 cash monies. I'm sitting accross from my opponent, who, you guessed it, is on Burn. Fortunately for me, he had to make a drive back to his university and take care of some other errands. He shakes my hand, tells me good luck and tells the head judge that he concedes.
Semifinals:
Sitting accross from a good friend of mine who is on Shardless. We've played this matchup a thousand times. We each know what our gameplans are and what we need to do. I'm able to overwhelm him with the combo, moon effects and Pyroblasting his basics to get there in game 1. Game two becomes a grind fest and eventually ends with me ulting Chandra, Torch of Defiance to burn him out.
Finals: How I even made it to the top 8, let alone the finals still perplexes me. He's on R/G Combo lands, which can be a real coinflip of a match.
G1: I combo on turn 3 before he has any good way to interact with me.
G2: He has an explosive start and makes a 20/20 on the endstep of my turn 2. Fffffuuuuuuuuuuuu
G3: He has another explosive start and drops an early Tireless Tracker and starts investigating clues all over the place, doing his best Sherlock Holmes impression. I follow it up with an Ensnaring Bridge. He makes more clues and draws more cards. I follow up with a moon, but it only slows him down slightly with his Mox Diamonds. Another Bridge. Divining Top. Grindstone. Another moon. Finally, a Painter. He responds by K-Gripping my Grindstone. It's ok. Everything is ok. He drops a Chalice on 1, I pyroblast it. He says, "Ok," and proceeds to drop another Chalice on 1. It resolves. Fudge. I drop a third bridge and pass, feeling defeated. Then we both do nothing but dig. I, with top, and him with clues. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Spin top, land, pass. Over and over. I know what I need find. Spin top. There it is. I untap, draw and drop Chandra on the battlefield. I tick her up until she's at 7 and then promptly throw her in the trashcan for a shiny emblem, burning him out for the win.
My opponent held out his hand, grinned and congratulated me. We were both just happy to make it as far as we had, even after the hour-long slugfest that was G3 of the finals.
Don't doubt the LED. :wink:
I once was lost, but now am found.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I'll never question the LED again. It over-performed during the whole tournament.
Here is the list I ran this weekend in the regional back to back legacy events. Both events were roughly 60 players.
Combine across the two days I went 12-4.
Saturday I went to the finals. 5-1 in swiss, with two of those wins against burn. 7-2 overall losing to land flood in the finals more than anything.
Sunday I came up short against strong ANT and UB reanimator draws to finish 12th at 5-2.
1 Great Furnace
2 Plateau
1 Wooded Foothills
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Welder
3 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Sphere of Law
SB: 1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Kozilek's Return
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Plains
SB: 2 Ajani Vengent
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Spellskite
All in all I was very happy with the list. This list feels very strong and give you a great matchup coverage for whatever you will face.
Pinkfrosting:
I went to great lengths at detailing my boarding plans vs each matchup I expected to face with a emphasis on removing dead cards out of my deck. The only card in the sideboard which is for one specific matchup is burn (sphere of law), which I feel is warranted given its our more common worst matchup. I took your recommendation on Kozilek's return and looked into it. Once I mapped it out it became obvious to me it is our best overall sweeper and it allowed us to play a different game plan against a variety of decks. I was very happy with the two I played all weekend killing many mana dorks, DRS, delvers, bobs, and all DNT stuff.
Other conclusions:
After being on 4 petal 1 ssg for 6-10 months I can now say that the 3 petal and 2 ssg is correct. Numerous games were won on the back of surprise SSG which in my mind is much stronger than the additional synergy provided by 4 petals and welder or white source requirements.
I remain content with Jaya Ballard. Recently I was testing alternatives but am currently sticking with her. The flexibility is unparalleled.
3 imperial recruiters is correct. I am not saying this because it only means I need one more English p3k recruiter. With the removal of magus of the moon (aka "float a black or white mana") from the deck I simply cannot justify playing 4 of this card. To me 4 recruiter means I want it in my opening hand every game, and to me that is not a truthful statement. If anything I would play 4 welders or tops before a fourth recruiter.
Engineered explosives in the main and spellskite in the side. EE provides the flexibility we need in both preboard and sideboard games. Spellskite is the card we need in a lot of sideboard games once our opponent is loaded up on answers and we need to play a more controlling game plan.
1 RIP, 1 crypt, 1 surgical provides the best overall coverage for the expected metagame. Previously I ran crypt or faerie over the surgical but I realized that some other non GY specific matchups had 1 dead card left in my deck. Surgical both filled that purpose as well as provides the GY hate we need regardless of synergy with the rest of the deck.
Sphere of law is a requirement if you expect to win a tournament. There is simply to much burn around and our matchup is atrocious. Having 3 tutors and a plains is critical to playing this card correctly. If at all possible never play two non-basics against burn, thereby shutting off their price's under a sphere. Once sphere is down DO NOT deploy creatures as it will turn on their searing effects. The game is won by planeswalkers which are essentially unkillable under a sphere. Natural grindstone is also an option. Spellskite and goblin welder is critical to keeping our window open for a quick combo win as well.
Plains in sideboard is a requirement. Similar to miracles playing a mountain we need to play a plains. I cannot express how critical this card is to my sideboard games against so many decks. Many games are won by either having a more lands, more basic lands, or reliable access to white mana with a blood moon in play. I dropped $25 on a nice euro plains (windmill art) to put my money where my mouth is.
The following statement is only true if you meet the plains requirement:
Ajani is amazing. Having the ability to either trade out Chandra or to go up to 4 planeswalkers is invaluable. 2 Ajani is boarded into my deck in almost every matchup to face. No other walker offers a better plan for us post board. For example, Ajani will act as an ensnaring bridge against a lot of decks (e.g., reanimator) with the added advantage of ending the game when you blow up all their lands and play a real bridge. He will tap down opposing white mana sources in miracles cutting off access to plow, entreat, and wear - crushing when combine with the blood moons we get to keep in the deck with our plains. Against burn and delver decks he essentially reads: +9 life for 4 mana (kill your creature, gain 3, gain 3 from the bolt or attack to kill him).
I trust this will help continue the conversation on refining the deck. I was on camera a couple times and will link any good examples to the chat.
Congrats on your success. It's always good to see different approaches to the deck have success. I think the deck is really well positioned as well. Here are my 2 cents.
I think 4 petal is only really right if you're running multiple white planeswalkers maindeck and don't want to run a plains or an extra plateau. SSG is great because he can serve a tutorable mana source if your hand is full of higher cmc cards and you don't know if you are going to be drawing the land to play them. It's not ideal but i've recruitered in advantage for an SSG so I can clear the board with a fiery confluence or have enough mana to play and activate a grindstone. I think if you are playing more than 1 chandra main you have to be running 20 lands, I tried to be greedy with 19 and found myself punished a good amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Jaya is insane but in recent months i've found that she's really lost some of the shine she had. She's extremely slow and it feels like almost every deck has someway to get rid of her. Chandra can atleast take out a creature the minute she hits the battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
I've been thinking about this too, I was thinking about either going down to 3 grindstones or 3 recruiters. I feel like the 3 grindstones is better since at the worse recruiter can still get you some of the silver bullets that you are running. I'm not sure if that is correct though, need more testing. At the end of the day we are a nonblue combo deck and we want as many ways as possible to find our combo pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
I don't know how I feel about sphere of law and other antiburn cards. The matchup is so awful unless you draw your hate pieces early. I don't think that they are needed but I can't fault anyone for having a couple of them in their sideboard. As for the basic plains in my experience if you were running multiple Rw walkers anywhere in your 75, a basic plains was necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
I've gone back and forth on Sphere of Law but after playing it for almost a year in paper it's actually quite effective. Your plan against burn becomes mulligan for e-tutor every time post board, but this surprisingly actually works pretty often. It's been equally good online, I'm sitting around 50/50 for the matchup.
I actually got trash talked pretty hard for beating burn the other day on mtgo, didn't even use sphere, it was combo with REB backup both wins. Told me it was "no skill only luck" that I won. The final game actually involved a tense wait because I resolved painter-stone with 3 mana up but I sensed he might have bolt + fireblast, so I waited until he went for the kill to activate with blast backup. My instinct was right and my patience won the game. He had beaten me earlier that day so I'm not sure why he was so tilted.
"No skill, only luck." 😂😂😂😂. Coming from a person playing burn is hysterical. I think painter is a deck that takes a little more skill to pilot than burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
I think both decks take the same amount of skill. Like with Painter you need to know whether to rush combo or rush a Moon or whatever and with Burn you need to know whether to point burn at face or at creatures or whether to use your mana this turn to burn the opponent as opposed to holding back and just trying to overload burn spells all in one turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
At the Card Kingdom event last weekend that I went to the finals in (after beating Burn 2-1 in both round 1 and round 4) I had a similar situation come up - albeit the opponents were both very nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
I set up a goblin welder, grindstone, painter situation where he had to bolt the painter, welder in response, he bolts again, then I pitch two SSG and tap my one mountain to kill him. Still only winning because his burn spells in his hand were sorceries or else I would have died on his upkeep.
@pinkfrosting, yes your right.
Essentially get sphere online asap then use these rules:
1. don't play a second non basic land (shutting off price)
2. don't play a creature if you can help it (shutting off searing effects)
3. don't play an artifact until you have stabilized
next part of plan as follows:
1. EOT cast kozeliks return
2. slam planeswalker and uptick
3. ???
4. profit
5. alternatively I will natural grindstone them out of the game.
As I said to my burn player, I'm going to bake a strawberry shortcake. It will not be pretty but it will work.
Burn players on mtgo are gr8. One guy got super salty when he misplayed and bolted my painter eot with me having 2 activations on the board. I also had a burn player fireblast my painter in response and then just not draw lands for the rest of the game... I can't blame him though, I let my opponents know how happy I am that they spend their food stamp money on burn each time I play against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
I always seem to run into 1 in a league so it might be time to start playing sphere of law in the board again.
I played new Chandra for the first time last weekend in a 60 player tournament and absolutely loved it. Finally something relevant to do outside getting the combo or Blood Moon. I played two copies in maindeck and wouldn't mind the third copy at all. It was relevant every single time I drew it and needed to ultimate once to win. The card is quite versatile.
Having multiple copies of a main deck reliable alternate wincon that also can just be played in tandem with our normal plan has been huge for me. I beat Sneak and Show last night on mtgo with her. Fortunately he wasn't running the omni build so after resolving bridge I had all the time in the world to find her and enough blasts to guarantee she resolved, but having that out in the main is great game 1 against decks that are immune to the combo, along with plenty of other matchups. I'm still playing with the mana base, I was on 20 lands for a bit -1 fast mana to facilitate 3 copies of her in the main, but blood moon is actually very good with BUG decks making a huge comeback at least in the online meta and I went back to 5 mana accelerants and 2 chandra. But yeah either way it's a great card, gonna keep tweaking and try to find the ideal number/manabase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
What is your manabase looking like now? Is it still 20 lands with 5 accelerants?Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
I am currently playing with 4 Chandras. The mana base that has been working for me is 13 Red Lands, 7 Sol Lands, 5 Red Acceleration.
Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
8x Mountain
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (6)
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Creature (16)
2x Goblin Welder
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Painter's Servant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Spellskite
Artifact (10)
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Grindstone
1x Lotus Petal
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (4)
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sideboard
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Manic Vandal
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Sudden Shock
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Tormod's Crypt
I don't know if four is the correct number but Chandra is house basically against any fair deck, and I am never unhappy to see her. She also makes the Miracles MU a lot more trivial. With 5 PW in the 75, it's usually my Plan A now vs. Miracles.
I'm 7-3 in my last 10 matches against burn with my list (page or two back).
Every happy with what I would touted as our worst matchup. I cannot stress how strong and important sphere of law, spellskite and ajani are.
My next focus is trying to improve our miracles matchup while at the same time as improve RB reanimator and other GY based strategies. Right now 1 surgical I feel provides cover on both but I am open to other suggestions.
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7-3 is really good vs. Burn. I struggle with that MU a lot. I may give the white splash a shot again. My only real attempt was to play Filigree Familiar, which is more cute than good (albeit very cute). But I really like the superb manabase of playing mono-red. I also like playing 4 copies of SSG because sometimes I just need Gray Ogres.
I don't think the Miracles MU is all that bad. Probably 50/50. Miracles has a hard time interacting with Chandra and Koth. Post board, I want 7-8 Blasts to deal with CB, 4-5 PW as win cons, only 2-3 Grindstones, and surgicals to deal with CB and STP. I use to play Rabblemaster before Chandra was printed, but he is still a good tutor target since he kills really fast. I also keep all 4 Blood Moons in my deck vs. Miracles to specifically turn off fetch lands and make access to white mana a little bit harder. Sinkhole a Plain or two is usually enough to keep them off W. The only time I feel Miracles is a real issue is when they have an early Mentor or an active CB+Top combo. My post board config vs. Miracles looks like this:
Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
8x Mountain
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (8)
4x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Surgical Extraction
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Creature (16)
1x Goblin Welder or Magus of the Moon
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Painter's Servant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Spellskite
Artifact (7)
3x Grindstone
1x Ratchet Bomb
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (5)
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
I feel RB Reanimator is really just the roll of the dice. Surgicals are not even that great sometimes due to discard. I find Grafdigger's Cage and Ensnaring Bridge to be the best hate cards, with Goblin Welder as MVP. Graddigger's Cage 1CMC is relevant because all it takes is one Ancient Tomb or SSG to play around Chancellor of the Annex. Even if my opponent discards Cage or it gets destroyed, I can weld it back to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Recently have switched back to Rw version on Mtgo. I've found COP: Red to be a better answer to burn than sphere of law. It has hit the board much quicker than sphere of law in my testing. Sphere of law can hit the board when you are too low on life. COP: Red guarantees you are not taking damage rather than a little each turn where you have probably taken close to if not over ten before sphere of law hits the table. I had a burn player quit on me on Mtgo. He had me down to three life but I stabilized with trinisphere cop: red and thorn. Just kept playing lands until I could safely play Chandra.
Cop red may seem good but in practice it doesn't cut it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBobPlissken
In your example what really won you the game was trinisphere and proves nothing for the merits (to which there are almost none) of COP over sphere.
Yes, sphere can come down later (turn 3) but nothing will give you a better chance to win the burn matchup then it.
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L10, firstly I think writing out your post board deck list is amazing and people need to do it more.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
From a post board perspective our approaches are essentially the same it's just I have 2 ajani to help shut off white mana in addition to killing a mentor which yours already do.
I would recommend exploring the RW build. If not for the burn matchup then for the flexibility it provides elsewhere.
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Idk if I would say the miracles matchup is 50/50, I think that the predict versions that are popular now are slightly more favorable than the mentor versions before. I think the biggest thing comes down to player skill/what their mainboard answers to your things are. Against any incompetent miracles opponent I 100% feel favored but even with that their deck is so adaptable and now they are running a wide range of answers for things preboard that random entreats, ees and judgements may just get you regardless of how well either player played the game.
It seems weird to keep a large number of blood moons in postboard, same with fast mana. If they get anything more than a turn you basically just have 4 dead cards in hand not to mention that any fused wear/tear comes a 2 for 1. Only way I can see keeping in more normally is if I don't have much stuff to bring in but the chances of that happening are slim to none. Against legends miracles i'll usually keep in 2-3 moons since their manabase is substantially greedier. I usually board like this.
How do you guys feel about the DnT MU? Part of the reason why I quit playing the RW version a while ago is because there is a countable amount of times when I lost because a Plateau gets destroyed by Wasteland. When playing Mono-Red, I feel I have better game against DnT's mana denial strategy, and against Wasteland in general.
@CptHaddock, I don't mind Blood Moon even in the mid-game. Shutting off fetch lands really hampers Miracles's ability to use Top and BS effectively, which reduces their card selection, where the bulk of Miracle's power comes from. Even keeping them off of WW prevents them from casting Council's Judgement and Entreat the Angels. As for fast mana, I don't like Lotus Petal, but I think SSG is great. SSG helps make the working man's FoW, helps cast Blood Moon, Chandra, Koth, etc, a turn earlier, or can just attack, all of which are relevant. I do agree that the more streamlined Mentor list is hard to deal with though. Against those lists, I'd be more inclined to side in my Sudden Shocks.
I have been the one and only advocate of 1 plains I the sideboard for a while. I don't plan on getting off my high horse any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
For the exact reasons you would rage quit with Dnt I lolz. Delver, Dnt, and many other aggro matchups are weakened by our 2 plateau. The 1 plains both allows us to play our white in aggro and tempo matchups as well as play more lands in control matchups when lotus petal is weak.
Again, I would stress on trying my board. I feel it is vastly superior in so many ways to how decks choose to counter us is sideboarded games.
Matchups like show and tell, Dnt, or miracles are all stronger with blood moon but we don't want to weaken our mana base.
Sb:
1 plains.
Do it.
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I've been playing a list with +1 mountain lately, I think I may take your advise and finally swap it for a plains. A very good reason is ANT and other storm variants, or ubx reanimator, where blood moon is strong-ish but we desperately need white to e-tutor for hate, which is also white (canonist, RiP). Too often I find myself unable to drop moon because I need the white to cast e-tutor, and moon is far more effective turns 1 or 2 against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Also, you asked me about my miracles sideboard the other day on MTGO chat, was about to respond then I looked at the clock and realized I had to jump in the shower and get to work. Anyway, I'll type up my general miracles plan with my current deck list tonight.
Ummmm.... I was playing 1 x Plaines MAIN for over a year now and have always been a fan. Having said that, I've been on Rb painter for the last month and have been trying to make it work. Still working on a final list. Rw is still probably the place to be but there are pros and cons to each.
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