Congrats on your success. It's always good to see different approaches to the deck have success. I think the deck is really well positioned as well. Here are my 2 cents.
I think 4 petal is only really right if you're running multiple white planeswalkers maindeck and don't want to run a plains or an extra plateau. SSG is great because he can serve a tutorable mana source if your hand is full of higher cmc cards and you don't know if you are going to be drawing the land to play them. It's not ideal but i've recruitered in advantage for an SSG so I can clear the board with a fiery confluence or have enough mana to play and activate a grindstone. I think if you are playing more than 1 chandra main you have to be running 20 lands, I tried to be greedy with 19 and found myself punished a good amount of time.Originally Posted by mcbain
Jaya is insane but in recent months i've found that she's really lost some of the shine she had. She's extremely slow and it feels like almost every deck has someway to get rid of her. Chandra can atleast take out a creature the minute she hits the battlefield.
I've been thinking about this too, I was thinking about either going down to 3 grindstones or 3 recruiters. I feel like the 3 grindstones is better since at the worse recruiter can still get you some of the silver bullets that you are running. I'm not sure if that is correct though, need more testing. At the end of the day we are a nonblue combo deck and we want as many ways as possible to find our combo pieces.
I don't know how I feel about sphere of law and other antiburn cards. The matchup is so awful unless you draw your hate pieces early. I don't think that they are needed but I can't fault anyone for having a couple of them in their sideboard. As for the basic plains in my experience if you were running multiple Rw walkers anywhere in your 75, a basic plains was necessary.
I've gone back and forth on Sphere of Law but after playing it for almost a year in paper it's actually quite effective. Your plan against burn becomes mulligan for e-tutor every time post board, but this surprisingly actually works pretty often. It's been equally good online, I'm sitting around 50/50 for the matchup.
I actually got trash talked pretty hard for beating burn the other day on mtgo, didn't even use sphere, it was combo with REB backup both wins. Told me it was "no skill only luck" that I won. The final game actually involved a tense wait because I resolved painter-stone with 3 mana up but I sensed he might have bolt + fireblast, so I waited until he went for the kill to activate with blast backup. My instinct was right and my patience won the game. He had beaten me earlier that day so I'm not sure why he was so tilted.
Last edited by pinkfrosting; 03-23-2017 at 08:23 PM.
"No skill, only luck." 😂😂😂😂. Coming from a person playing burn is hysterical. I think painter is a deck that takes a little more skill to pilot than burn.
I think both decks take the same amount of skill. Like with Painter you need to know whether to rush combo or rush a Moon or whatever and with Burn you need to know whether to point burn at face or at creatures or whether to use your mana this turn to burn the opponent as opposed to holding back and just trying to overload burn spells all in one turn.
At the Card Kingdom event last weekend that I went to the finals in (after beating Burn 2-1 in both round 1 and round 4) I had a similar situation come up - albeit the opponents were both very nice.
I set up a goblin welder, grindstone, painter situation where he had to bolt the painter, welder in response, he bolts again, then I pitch two SSG and tap my one mountain to kill him. Still only winning because his burn spells in his hand were sorceries or else I would have died on his upkeep.
@pinkfrosting, yes your right.
Essentially get sphere online asap then use these rules:
1. don't play a second non basic land (shutting off price)
2. don't play a creature if you can help it (shutting off searing effects)
3. don't play an artifact until you have stabilized
next part of plan as follows:
1. EOT cast kozeliks return
2. slam planeswalker and uptick
3. ???
4. profit
5. alternatively I will natural grindstone them out of the game.
As I said to my burn player, I'm going to bake a strawberry shortcake. It will not be pretty but it will work.
Burn players on mtgo are gr8. One guy got super salty when he misplayed and bolted my painter eot with me having 2 activations on the board. I also had a burn player fireblast my painter in response and then just not draw lands for the rest of the game... I can't blame him though, I let my opponents know how happy I am that they spend their food stamp money on burn each time I play against it.
I always seem to run into 1 in a league so it might be time to start playing sphere of law in the board again.
I played new Chandra for the first time last weekend in a 60 player tournament and absolutely loved it. Finally something relevant to do outside getting the combo or Blood Moon. I played two copies in maindeck and wouldn't mind the third copy at all. It was relevant every single time I drew it and needed to ultimate once to win. The card is quite versatile.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
Having multiple copies of a main deck reliable alternate wincon that also can just be played in tandem with our normal plan has been huge for me. I beat Sneak and Show last night on mtgo with her. Fortunately he wasn't running the omni build so after resolving bridge I had all the time in the world to find her and enough blasts to guarantee she resolved, but having that out in the main is great game 1 against decks that are immune to the combo, along with plenty of other matchups. I'm still playing with the mana base, I was on 20 lands for a bit -1 fast mana to facilitate 3 copies of her in the main, but blood moon is actually very good with BUG decks making a huge comeback at least in the online meta and I went back to 5 mana accelerants and 2 chandra. But yeah either way it's a great card, gonna keep tweaking and try to find the ideal number/manabase.
What is your manabase looking like now? Is it still 20 lands with 5 accelerants?
I am currently playing with 4 Chandras. The mana base that has been working for me is 13 Red Lands, 7 Sol Lands, 5 Red Acceleration.
Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
8x Mountain
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (6)
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Creature (16)
2x Goblin Welder
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Painter's Servant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Spellskite
Artifact (10)
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Grindstone
1x Lotus Petal
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (4)
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sideboard
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Manic Vandal
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Sudden Shock
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Tormod's Crypt
I don't know if four is the correct number but Chandra is house basically against any fair deck, and I am never unhappy to see her. She also makes the Miracles MU a lot more trivial. With 5 PW in the 75, it's usually my Plan A now vs. Miracles.
Last edited by L10; 03-30-2017 at 09:16 AM.
I'm 7-3 in my last 10 matches against burn with my list (page or two back).
Every happy with what I would touted as our worst matchup. I cannot stress how strong and important sphere of law, spellskite and ajani are.
My next focus is trying to improve our miracles matchup while at the same time as improve RB reanimator and other GY based strategies. Right now 1 surgical I feel provides cover on both but I am open to other suggestions.
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7-3 is really good vs. Burn. I struggle with that MU a lot. I may give the white splash a shot again. My only real attempt was to play Filigree Familiar, which is more cute than good (albeit very cute). But I really like the superb manabase of playing mono-red. I also like playing 4 copies of SSG because sometimes I just need Gray Ogres.
I don't think the Miracles MU is all that bad. Probably 50/50. Miracles has a hard time interacting with Chandra and Koth. Post board, I want 7-8 Blasts to deal with CB, 4-5 PW as win cons, only 2-3 Grindstones, and surgicals to deal with CB and STP. I use to play Rabblemaster before Chandra was printed, but he is still a good tutor target since he kills really fast. I also keep all 4 Blood Moons in my deck vs. Miracles to specifically turn off fetch lands and make access to white mana a little bit harder. Sinkhole a Plain or two is usually enough to keep them off W. The only time I feel Miracles is a real issue is when they have an early Mentor or an active CB+Top combo. My post board config vs. Miracles looks like this:
Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
8x Mountain
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (8)
4x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Surgical Extraction
Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
Creature (16)
1x Goblin Welder or Magus of the Moon
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Painter's Servant
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Spellskite
Artifact (7)
3x Grindstone
1x Ratchet Bomb
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (5)
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
I feel RB Reanimator is really just the roll of the dice. Surgicals are not even that great sometimes due to discard. I find Grafdigger's Cage and Ensnaring Bridge to be the best hate cards, with Goblin Welder as MVP. Graddigger's Cage 1CMC is relevant because all it takes is one Ancient Tomb or SSG to play around Chancellor of the Annex. Even if my opponent discards Cage or it gets destroyed, I can weld it back to play.
Recently have switched back to Rw version on Mtgo. I've found COP: Red to be a better answer to burn than sphere of law. It has hit the board much quicker than sphere of law in my testing. Sphere of law can hit the board when you are too low on life. COP: Red guarantees you are not taking damage rather than a little each turn where you have probably taken close to if not over ten before sphere of law hits the table. I had a burn player quit on me on Mtgo. He had me down to three life but I stabilized with trinisphere cop: red and thorn. Just kept playing lands until I could safely play Chandra.
Cop red may seem good but in practice it doesn't cut it.
In your example what really won you the game was trinisphere and proves nothing for the merits (to which there are almost none) of COP over sphere.
Yes, sphere can come down later (turn 3) but nothing will give you a better chance to win the burn matchup then it.
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L10, firstly I think writing out your post board deck list is amazing and people need to do it more.
From a post board perspective our approaches are essentially the same it's just I have 2 ajani to help shut off white mana in addition to killing a mentor which yours already do.
I would recommend exploring the RW build. If not for the burn matchup then for the flexibility it provides elsewhere.
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Idk if I would say the miracles matchup is 50/50, I think that the predict versions that are popular now are slightly more favorable than the mentor versions before. I think the biggest thing comes down to player skill/what their mainboard answers to your things are. Against any incompetent miracles opponent I 100% feel favored but even with that their deck is so adaptable and now they are running a wide range of answers for things preboard that random entreats, ees and judgements may just get you regardless of how well either player played the game.
It seems weird to keep a large number of blood moons in postboard, same with fast mana. If they get anything more than a turn you basically just have 4 dead cards in hand not to mention that any fused wear/tear comes a 2 for 1. Only way I can see keeping in more normally is if I don't have much stuff to bring in but the chances of that happening are slim to none. Against legends miracles i'll usually keep in 2-3 moons since their manabase is substantially greedier. I usually board like this.
How do you guys feel about the DnT MU? Part of the reason why I quit playing the RW version a while ago is because there is a countable amount of times when I lost because a Plateau gets destroyed by Wasteland. When playing Mono-Red, I feel I have better game against DnT's mana denial strategy, and against Wasteland in general.
@CptHaddock, I don't mind Blood Moon even in the mid-game. Shutting off fetch lands really hampers Miracles's ability to use Top and BS effectively, which reduces their card selection, where the bulk of Miracle's power comes from. Even keeping them off of WW prevents them from casting Council's Judgement and Entreat the Angels. As for fast mana, I don't like Lotus Petal, but I think SSG is great. SSG helps make the working man's FoW, helps cast Blood Moon, Chandra, Koth, etc, a turn earlier, or can just attack, all of which are relevant. I do agree that the more streamlined Mentor list is hard to deal with though. Against those lists, I'd be more inclined to side in my Sudden Shocks.
I have been the one and only advocate of 1 plains I the sideboard for a while. I don't plan on getting off my high horse any time soon.
For the exact reasons you would rage quit with Dnt I lolz. Delver, Dnt, and many other aggro matchups are weakened by our 2 plateau. The 1 plains both allows us to play our white in aggro and tempo matchups as well as play more lands in control matchups when lotus petal is weak.
Again, I would stress on trying my board. I feel it is vastly superior in so many ways to how decks choose to counter us is sideboarded games.
Matchups like show and tell, Dnt, or miracles are all stronger with blood moon but we don't want to weaken our mana base.
Sb:
1 plains.
Do it.
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I've been playing a list with +1 mountain lately, I think I may take your advise and finally swap it for a plains. A very good reason is ANT and other storm variants, or ubx reanimator, where blood moon is strong-ish but we desperately need white to e-tutor for hate, which is also white (canonist, RiP). Too often I find myself unable to drop moon because I need the white to cast e-tutor, and moon is far more effective turns 1 or 2 against them.
Also, you asked me about my miracles sideboard the other day on MTGO chat, was about to respond then I looked at the clock and realized I had to jump in the shower and get to work. Anyway, I'll type up my general miracles plan with my current deck list tonight.
Ummmm.... I was playing 1 x Plaines MAIN for over a year now and have always been a fan. Having said that, I've been on Rb painter for the last month and have been trying to make it work. Still working on a final list. Rw is still probably the place to be but there are pros and cons to each.
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