[Deck] Dragon Stompy

lÔl
first it's nice to see the deck on the "DTB" forum:smile:


i seen so many thing i'd like to answer


-you play a stax deck,stax is the main build/clock of the deck,
the difference between dragon stompy and white stax, is you play 20 kills!
the difference between DS and FS is you play 16 fast stax cards!
because of the actual metagame trini/magus/moon turn 1 it's GG, I don't think the deck will stay when the metagame will turn into monocolor/bicolor aggro deck

all the metagame I know are full of thresh/landstill/combo and some white stax
you got very good MU against those deck, so why playing on MD some useless cards like equipement?

against all aggro monocolored deck you got problems, gobs,weenie white/death and taxes,pox/smallpox/MBA
against those deck you need jitte or sword of xxxx, but if those deck are on the meta,the are in a minority so it's the reason why I run the equip only on SB

-to all people who said the deck is missing of stability:

I answer run a aggro/control 3+ colors!
and if you play equip on MD, you'll have less stability

the deck try to rape the opponent with 2 ways:
-strong metagamed stax tools
-big creatures

add equipment to the main deck is not good because you will loose stability because you NEED a creature to equip it (so when you topdeck an equipment with a poor 2/2 creature on table, it would be certainly raped by goyf',terravore,) so i'd prefer to topdeck a dangerous kill, then you won't be attacked

maybe i'll run a equipement if one day, we can have one, like a sword of XXX with giving a protec green

running 5 equip on MD really makes me laugh,play FS with trinisphere would be the same,and stronger (with counter and draw spell)

-then ,obviously you run mono red, so you got no choice during the game, the only choice you can make is to mull or not, you do it often at 6,maybe 5 against some MU



-crucible of worlds

no!no!no!no!, you don't play wasteland,you don't need this card, really bad idea,you need slot for creatures

-country side crusher

yeah,could be a good card but i think on X2,X3 is really the highest number you can run

I really don't want it on first hand,and on second/third draw too
but coulb be really good on late game (turn 4/5), cause it's won't makes you draw useless-land-cards, could give you the creatures you'll need

-arc-slogger

not running them I think is such a mistake
I won a lot of game by activated him when the next turn of my opponent should be the last of the game. hum?
then if you don't run him you'll really be a bye for goblins.

acually i'm still running 3 keg (against ETW,bridge from B,activated man land,moongooze,tarmo,vial etc....) on MD, and if I had to cut them, I'll certainly include
1) 3 other creatures
2) 3 pillage (yes on MD) vial/vedalken schakles/THE fecthed basic land/ nevy's disk/ jitte/crucible/....
3) then maybe equipment (jitte certainly)



but obviously jitte is such a good SB cards againt all aggro deck, and can steal the game to ichorid and Loam

is anybody ever tryed any splash ?

i mean on G1 your dual land will be all montains

but at G2 is anybody tries to side in some no-red cards and siding out the moon?(krosan grip,against deed and Cop red?)

Please use your shift key for appropriate capitalization. Doing so will make your posts easier to read.

-PR

Regardless of what you think about Countryside Crusher, Crucible of Worlds does not go in this deck, period. This is seriously the absolute worst choice for slots in this deck I have ever seen suggested. On its own, it does absolutely nothing except recur sacrificed City of Traitors. It doesn't pitch to Mox. It's completely useless in multiples. It doesn't kill your opponent, disrupt your opponent, or do anything remotely useful whatsoever.

As for Crusher, I will say this. If you're going to run him, running him with Eight Moons maindeck is absolutely the only way to go, as he's easier to cast with a Moon in play than without one.

However, I think he's weak. He only pumps when you flip lands or sacrifice COT's. Your odds of the top card in your library being a land are perpetually around 1 in 3 (Slightly worse as long as you're drawing average land.) You only run 4 Cities, and if you get a Moon out, you won't be sacrificing them. Therefore despite that he only needs to grow slightly to be badass, I don't think he will grow by 2 as often as he won't.

As for the comment about splashes, this is a bad idea. Our chief method of disruption is centered around Blood Moon. 8 Moons in Dragon Stompy in a random metagame almost ensures you'll go close to .500 in a tournament, which is highly needed given that the deck's inconsistency almost ensures you'll struggle to go better than X-1.

Someone mentioned coal stoker a while back. As much jank as people have suggested and/or actually considered/tested/argued I'm very surprised that this one flew right by. He advances the fundamental DS gameplan without sacrificing card advantage. The gameplan being to dump your hand quickly and effectively. He is very nearly a 3/3 for 1 mana but better in some ways. Not quite a 3/3 for 1 because he doesn't often come out on turn one. Better because he lets you cast him+something+convert 3 mana into RRR. Imagine some of the brutal plays he allows. Besides that, he just fundamentally fits in that he helps get hellbent and he's an "undercosted" beater with only a single R in the CC.

He is competing with some pretty awesome guys, given, I'm just shocked that 0 people responded to the guy that mentioned him.

He's the red priest of gix, only problem is that red doesn't have a dark ritual. Playing a 3/3 turn 2+ seems okay since you get to play a jitte/sofi/moon/morph. Might not be bad on paper doubt it's good in testing though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Androstanolone

Someone mentioned coal stoker a while back. As much jank as people have suggested and/or actually considered/tested/argued I'm very surprised that this one flew right by. He advances the fundamental DS gameplan without sacrificing card advantage. The gameplan being to dump your hand quickly and effectively. He is very nearly a 3/3 for 1 mana but better in some ways. Not quite a 3/3 for 1 because he doesn't often come out on turn one. Better because he lets you cast him+something+convert 3 mana into RRR. Imagine some of the brutal plays he allows. Besides that, he just fundamentally fits in that he helps get hellbent and he's an "undercosted" beater with only a single R in the CC.

He is competing with some pretty awesome guys, given, I'm just shocked that 0 people responded to the guy that mentioned him.

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It's a fairly easy no. If he cost :2::r:, that would be another thing, but we really don't need more 4 drops, and I'll drop Pit Dragon for this guy over my dead body.

Sadly, since he costs 4, but produces 3, he really doesn't allow for any broken plays. I mean, if I had a Trini in my hand, I probably played it last turn. Same goes for Sword or even Gathan Raiders. Basically the only time this guy is acceling you is if your hand is stuffed. Still, I can see him being better than RPD maybe 1/20 times and that's the only spot he can compete for since I'm not upping the curve of the deck any more.

Coal Stoker was only really considered in Empty the Slogger, where he could supplement the first/second turn EtW plan, and even then he was pretty situational.

Coal (No relation to Bram) Stoker should have flavor text on it that contains the web address of the "Danger of Cool Things" article.

Seriously, though? It just doesn't cut it. We're trying to lower the curve, not raise it, and there really isn't room for any threats that don't cost exactly :2::r: or :3: unless they're Rakdos Pit Dragon or Arc-Slogger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by la loutre

lÔl
is anybody ever tryed any splash ?

i mean on G1 your dual land will be all montains

but at G2 is anybody tries to side in some no-red cards and siding out the moon?(krosan grip,against deed and Cop red?)

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deed and cop:red are usually played by 3-4 color landstill, so sb-ing moons out
is a big mistake, well allmost all the time deeds are played in a deck filled with non-basic lands, but surely u can try to splash :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by savemysoul

deed and cop:red are usually played by 3-4 color landstill, so sb-ing moons out
is a big mistake, well allmost all the time deeds are played in a deck filled with non-basic lands, but surely u can try to splash :tongue:

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As an aside, both of the listed cards are handled by Pithing Needle. This is why Pithing Needle's highly necessary for the sideboard.

hmm

playing against landstill....

so for needle save you you have to :

first play it on deed
then play it on cop red

without any CotV at 1 (so you allow him to play STP,edict)

against cop red i'd really prefer anarchy

against deed,you need to pray for playing your moon before he fecthed for the basic-colored-mana on board to cast the deed

i'm really not a fan of needle,you already beat belcher,and have anarchy against Cop Red

Where is this entire misconception coming from that 4C Landstill even runs Circle of Protection: Red? I've seen maybe two builds out of twenty running it, and it's heavily a metagame call. Plus, other Landstill builds running COP: Red don't run Deed. So you won't come across this scenario often.

In any case, even if they do, you don't have to Needle both Deed and COP: Red very often. Here's why.

1. If your opponent has Circle of Protection: Red in play, but not a Deed, you can shut them off of Pernicious Deed with Blood Moon or if you're lucky, Magus of the Moon. Then all you have to do is calmly wait to draw into the Needle.

2. If your opponent has the Deed in play but not the COP: Red, Needling the Deed (Which is always the correct choice blind) will buy you enough time to smash face while they hunt the COP: Red.

3. If you shut off 4C Landstill's removal (Swords w/ Chalice 1, Edict by having other creatures out, Needle on Deed) Gathan Raiders can kill through Circle of Protection: Red.

Oh, and also? A lot of Survival builds can smash this deck. Pithing Needle's a great help there too.

My Hadley report 10th out of 36 with Dragon Stompy.

So I scrubbed out at the monthly Legacy tourney in "Speyer" (they changed the location to Hassloch) going 3-3 in the end. Lots of close matches, lots of luck and lots of bad luck.
Round 1 I lost against a UBw control deck with Vedalken Shackles, Shadowmage Infiltrator, Tombstalker and Back to Basics in the sideboard. Of course Back to Basics is close to useless against me but it also means that my opponent plays lots of basics which basically make my Moons useless.
Round 2 I lost against Goblins because I kept a really slow hand game 3 that I should've mulliganed.
Round 3 I won against Goblins because my opponent boarded out Goblin Pyromancer for game 3 which allowed me to kill him one turn before he could kill me.
Round 4 I won against Affinity with Jittes. Turns out 2 Sloggers are better than active Jitte when the opponent is locked under 3Sphere.
Round 5 I played against yet another Goblindeck but this had an interesting twist with Survival of the Fittest tossed in. I won the match thanks to a Dragon flying in for 16 damage.
Round 6 I lost against Survival with Doran because I had to take a mulligan down to 4 game 1 and a mulligan down to 6 in games 2 and 3. I almost pulled off game 1 with a Dragon + Jitte but my opponent found a Shriekmaw the turn before I could kill him and then destroyed me with Shriekmaw recursion. Game 2 wasn't even close as I resolved turn 1 Moon and he was stuck on 2 Bayou for the rest of the game. Game 3 he had a starting hand with Windswept Heath, Swamp, Forest and Doran. Heath fetched basic Plains and down came a turn 3 Doran followed by multiple "3/3" Harbingers that quickly beat me.

The list I played was standard maindeck with 2 Sulfur Elementals, 2 Blood Moons and 2 Trinispheres and the sideboard had 4 Needles, 4 Powder Kegs, 2 Blood Moon, 2 Trinisphere, 2 Tormod's Crypt and 1 Pyroclasm.
I probably should've played a 3/2 split on Pyroclasms and Kegs because Clasms are infinitely better against Goblins but aside from that the deck was ok.

I wanna ask if you aggro mulli, if u know you will beat a deck with a first turn magus ?
I played against The Rock and won 4 games but lost 2, where resolving a first or second turn magus was good game. The problem is that i mullid to 5 from solid hands just for the magus lock, and i got a non-land/mana source hand. So I went to four same thing. I ended up with 3 cards : tomb, ssg and pit dragon,
loosing the 3rd game. But if i had kept a hand without moon effect i would have probably scooped to StP & deed (doran, shriekmaw and other goodies). O and I didn`t have needle in hand (I sb 4)

As a loose rule I usually only do it for really bad matchups, which Rock can fall under. Luckily with 8 moon effects, we don't usually have to go down to 5.

If you aggro mulligan, you're occasionally going to just mulligan yourself into oblivion. This is something you just have to accept, and weigh how often you would have actually won the game if you hadn't done it and had kept a mediocre seven card hand without your auto-win card.

I'm all for aggro-mulliganing if you know what you're playing against and are sure that if you get the card, it will win you the game. This means not doing so against decks that could likely have Force of Will for it, or against decks that pack Thoughtseize and are going first.

Just wanted to add that Taureen Mauler lives up to the hipe we were giving it for Dragon Stompy. My friend picked me up three at the Morning Tide release they have been amazing!

So I just wanted to post a reply here about the Hadley tournament that was held Saturday. I was the dragon stompy player who won but I don't keep notes so I don't have enough to write a full fledged tournament report so I'll post a quick one here along with my thoughts on the deck. This is a little late but I had to leave for school Monday so I was busy with that and I had to actually register with the source as I have just recently gotten into Legacy.

To start here is the list I played:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sulfur Elemental
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Blood Moon
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Powder Keg


Quick Recap of my matches

Round 1: R/g Burn
Game 1: I keep a hand with multiple early moon effects but not much else. I get a chalice at 1 down a few turns later but he has 2 Incinerate and Fireblast to finish me off.
Game 2: Not sure but i think it was just multiple early lock pieces followed up with guys, pretty standard win.
Game 3: I get down Chalice at 1 and 2 with Trinisphere but can't find any pressure and he eventually finds grips and tin-streets to break out of the lock. I almost stabilize at 1 after he forgets to sacrifice fanatic in response to a keg but he found another burn spell.

1-2, 0-1

Round 2: Mono White Kithkin/Death and Taxes

I take this one down pretty quickly with early trinispheres backed up with guys. Game 2 I ripped pit-dragon in a stalemate but he rips mangara. I pyrokinesis it the next turn banking on him forgetting about Karakas and he does. He seemed a bit flustered by trinisphere both games as he had just played against stax so he made similar simple mistakes.

2-0, 1-1

Round 3: Cephalid Breakfast (Teammate)

Kind of disappointing, he wanted to ID but I felt it was too early and that 1-2 X-2s would make it in anyway so we played it out.
Game 1: I paris to 5 and keep Tomb, Chalicex2, Jitte, Sword. He goes to 6. My turn 1 chalice for 1 gets there as his six are land, 5 one CC spells. Sometimes we get lucky.
Game 2: Early moon effect and sub-par draws from him lead to an easy win.

2-0, 2-1

Kind of disappointing to have to play a teammate, he ended 9th on breakers after 2 X-2s did make it in. Not his day apparently.

Round 4: Survival (Teammate)

We decide to ID as winning 2 rounds in a row is fine situation and I felt good about my deck.

0-0-1, 2-1-1

Round 5: Alluren (Teammate)

Wow, another teammate, kind of ridiculous. He had an unintentional draw earlier so we had to play it out.

Game 1: I have early moon and trinisphere but almost lose this one when he starts chaining imperial recruiters and I can't find a 3rd land. I find it in time and take it down from there.
Game 2: I have 2x trinisphere, 3x moon effects, and needle and am slowly winning as he tries to see if he can combo. He has enough basics so that he can drop alluren. He then finds stern procter and goes for the kill immediadely holding harpy but he didn't have enough mana. I of course rip chalice for 2 next turn and he can't do much. He had a turn earlier he could've comboed had he therapied correctly for pyrokinesis, disappointing for him but the matchup is pretty rough.

2-0, 3-1-1

Round 6: RGW Loam Control

Game 1: I get down turn 2 Arc Slogger and beat face while he draws green and white land while holding a fistful of red spells.
Game 2: Don't really remember but I get down stuff and win pretty quickly.

2-0, 4-1-1

So I'm in top 8 along with one other teammate, as I knocked the other 3 out in one way or another.

Top 8: UGrw Threshold (Teammate)

Of course, so now I'm batting for the cycle with the four teammates I came with.

Game 1: I have an early moon and he can't do much.
Game 2: He comes out with guys and I stabilize at 6 from ancient tombs with an arc-slogger against his 3/4 goyf. I get down a moon effect next turn but he had double bolt and I hand him the red mana. I'm not sure if I was entirely incorrect as I know he has 4 plows post-board, I wish I remembred more about the situation.
Game 3: I drop stuff and he's not in it for long.

Top4: UGW Threshold

This match is covered well in his tournament report (TrialbyFire) so I'll just direct you to that. The only revision I would make is that in game 2 he got one goyf down but I had a keg on the table at 1 so that one died and we played draw-go for a while after that before he found another goyf and I found still zero gas.

Finals: BGW Doran Aggro

Game 1: I have early disruption with trinisphere and chalice at 1 but he drops a bob and we kind of stalemate for a while before deed wipes the board while I am hellbent and he has like 5 cards. I think I'm done but I rip Arc-Slogger off the top and he is at 7. I have 2 mountains and 2 tombs on the table. He has 4 lands, Windswept Heath, Scrubland, Treetop Village, Forest. He plays eternal witness returning a vindicate. I untap into nothing relevant, slog his witness and beat him to 3. He untaps and sees that he can't fetch because slog kills him and doesn't have the mana to play vindicate and scoops.
Game 2: I think I paris a hand that needed red off the top and got a decent hand that. I drew a seething song off the top so that turn 2 I dropped my hand of morphed gathan raiders, magus of the moon, and chalice i think. He vindicates my raiders and has enough basics so moon does nothing and wins easily from there.
Game 3: I have turn 1 chalice for 1 and he apparently was holding double thoughtseize and a bird and drew like 2 more discard spells, seems good.

So the deck played well the entire day, and I was really happy with the list. All the sideboard cards came in at some point although pyrokinesis didn't do much, not sure if it's better than pyroclasm or not. I particularly like the low curve as you really can't reliably cast arc-sloggers with a moon and drawing multiples is usually dead. I might cut a seething song from the main as I also don't like seeing those in multiples as it forces you to be too aggressive. I feel the deck is powerful enough that you shouldn't need to drop your hand turn 2 to win and that often leads you into situations where the opponent just has an answer or two and you're left playing off the top with no draw. My most common turn 1 play was mountain go and I would start on turn 2 with the disruption.

On the correct number of moons: I definitely think that eight need to be somewhere in your 75 until the metagame shifts to fight it, if it does at all. But running too many main is just asking to get crushed by burn and other budget decks, which many have professed on this forum to be your worst matchup. Seeing two blood moons pre-board is not something I ever want to do so 2 main I think is correct.

On the equipment issue: Running 5-6 equipment led me to the problems of drawing 2-3 in a game and not having that many guys after their disruption. You really only need to see 1 max in a game most of the time so I liked having 4. Jitte is clearly superior to SoFI so I did a 3-1 split so as to avoid drawing too many dead jittes. SoFI is without a doubt better than SoLS or Warhammer. Drawing cards might mess with your hellbent but that doesn't matter when you have 2-3 extra threats, in fact it protects you from that dragon getting removed. The shock ability is also really good against the random aggro decks. The only advantage of SoLS is that pro-white protects froms swords but they can respond to the equip if they have it immediately and you have chalice for 1 so it's not that big of an advantage.

Overall I really like this deck since it is incredibly good against top tier decks, powerful enough to blow decks out, and surprisingly consistent for a chalice aggro deck. Going to six with the deck is not a problem since you have double lands and such. I mulliganed anything that just seemed underwhelming but any hand that has turn 1-3 disruption followed up with 1-3 threats is fine, no matter what they are. Mulliganing for moons seems pointless when your other disruption (chalice, trinisphere, needle in the board) is so flexible.

As for Morningtide, I don't like Crusher at all (in this deck) since you only run like 18 lands. He needs a loam shell to be nuts. Taurean Mauler looks very interesting, and testing 3 of them in place of my maindeck sulfur elementals will be happening soon.

Well, that's a long post, hope you guys enjoy the mini-report and I look forward to working on this deck in the coming months.

// Lands
10 [IA] Snow-Covered Mountain
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Gathan Raiders
3 [MR] Arc-Slogger
3 [ON] Tephraderm
4 [DIS] Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
3 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
4 [9E] Seething Song
4 [8E] Blood Moon
2 [DS] Trinisphere
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [DIS] Demonfire
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [UD] Powder Keg

That is the version of the Dragon Stompy I want to build... any thoughts and opinions on how I might make it better... or anything like that, would be appreciated. I had a hard match against a Threshold deck tonight... lost that match... is it normal to have such hard matches against Threshold?

What would you remove to put 3 Pyrokinesis maindeck?

I think Pyrokinesis is very solid because it helps Hellbent and clears the board,
maybe it deserves a test....