I guarantee you that I've been playing Magic for longer than you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
And Grave Titan isn't fit to be used as toilet paper. Come back when you have a relevant point to make.
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I guarantee you that I've been playing Magic for longer than you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
And Grave Titan isn't fit to be used as toilet paper. Come back when you have a relevant point to make.
I think that in the discussion of CA vs CA (draw v tutor) is that in a lot of the decks the cards can be very similar that raw count of things matters more than specifics. With most builds of Nic-Fit the cards can be very disparate (very similar to in vintage with the restricted list that yawgs will, timewalk, tinker) that most of the time raw cards are not as important as finding the removal or the threat. The idea of GSZ, or a tutor of like DT is that the card you are getting has to be good enough that you are willing to pay 1-2 mana more for it. So in the same vein wishes are set up as in scapshift the idea of a 3 mana TS is terrible but in certain situations you are willing to pay that mana for it.
One of the reasons I really like nic fit is that you can really build the deck as almost a vintage-esque deck because certain cards are so powerful in specific situations. On turn 10 I would rather have a DT than a Recall because with DT you go and get the EXACT most powerful card in your deck, with recall you may draw the best card, you may draw more CA or you may brick. Is it likely that the recall will fail to be broken, no, but DT will never fail. The card you go an get may but thats not the result of the tutor not working.
The problem with tutors in Nic-Fit is that we already have a super high curve, and the issue is rarely finding productive use of mana, virtually every build has multiple ways of burning it on productive uses. The problem is getting to that point. Having a hand of multiple high costing things is terrible. Its the main reason I like the fire build because it is the best at playing a traditional control game without NEEDING vet. MD TS, lily, decay all provide quality early turns similar to Jund. So this goes back to what Arianrhod says about the ramp besides vet is largely pretty shitty. I do not want to play suboptimal cards to ramp but without the ramp I add more terrible late game cards.
As to the fatty discussion, its pretty minute. It's not which 5 or 6 drop you play to win (there are plenty of strong options) its the fact that you are able to play a 6 drop that means you are going to win.
^^^ relevant pointQuote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Scuttling is the same card but worse. If you hate titan, OK, I can understand that. I didn't run him either!
Even if there's a cool loop to be had with Doom Engine via nightmare, isn't praying for a pair of non-tutorable 1-ofs to coincide a bit unrealistic? It's a cute combo and nothing else. <-relevant point
Engine dies to precisely 1 card that is actually run in the format; which is Lily. Everything else exiles or tucks it. <-relevant point
If you want an alternate win con, I ran into a developing deck running Ob Nixilis, the Fallen which (with Nightmare) still blasts people for 6 off of explorer or PT recursion. Much better than engine IMO since the cards it combos with are easily found. <-relevant point
@Tom4ik
I don't disagree that Tutors are better than Cantrips; but they're not mutually exclusive. Further, I was pointing out that Top is also a cantrip to help show that even the non blue variants of the deck are spending slots on consistency outside of GSZ/Pod. Indeed, you do not want a deck that looks like:
4 GSZ
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
because GSZ is basically a cantrip itself (taxes you 1, finds what you want, card neutral.)
EDIT: On the engine; isn't a recurring Nightmare loop easier with Titan? Play titan, recurring nightmare x2 nets you a pair of zombies. <- relevant point
EDIT2: @Tom4ik
I agree that the Punishing-Fit builds are better as well. They play Punishing more reliably than other decks (Primetime for Groves), punishing fire is a sac outlet, and they don't have to durdle around. They just kill weenies and dudes until they've hit a bomb. It's a build I'll be testing (probably with a list similar to what was linked a page ago.)
Both pieces are tutor-able in the list that Arianhod posted a few pages back (rector and gsz for fierce empath). It is not that hard to set up and I've had quite a few games end with attacking through creatures that couldn't block it then saccing it multiple times to just kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
It certainly doesn't belong in every deck but in my limited experience with that rector list it's an awesome piece of the puzzle and way better than grave titan in that deck.
Anyone try mixing the early game of nic fit with the late game of 12 post?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Nic-Feat-8PostQuote:
Originally Posted by apple713
The mana looks really rough though and that matchups section seems pretty optimistic.
I have given a small amount of effort a few times. I liked the idea of blue for brainstorm, show and tell and SB. Though the manabase gets eccentric fast. The BG(x?) version is better, but I still don't think you can really 11 or 12 post, probably have to settle for around 8 or 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
The biggest challenge I see when I think of combining Nic Fit with 12 Post is the incompatibility between the Nic Fit mana-base (i.e. mostly one mana per use lands) and Candelabra of Tawnos, which is what slingshots 12 Post into it's end-game Eldrazi bombs and Eye of Ugin tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
MUD or most anything else with Stompy manabase is better in this regard as they run Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors, which by themselves are useful with Candelabra of Tawnos.
If, however, you still want to combine Nic Fit with 12 Post, then I suggest using a different engine-enabler (if that is the correct terminology) other than Candelabra: Nissa, Worldwaker seems like the best candidate for this purpose.
I would like to ask for some tips/tricks in sideboarding against D&T. I hate that deck to play against. A mono-white deck with hardly any card draw or selection, yet it always manages to have the best cards for each situation or have insane top decks. I do not think I have won any of my matches against D&T in my weekly legacy tournaments since this January... Extremely frustrating. I feel like it's a combination between sub-optimal playing/sideboaring, a tough match-up and sheer luck from their side. Typical example is ripping my opponents hand apart with cabal therapies, just to have them top deck a stoneforge mystic, slam batterskull, while I draw some of my pretty dual lands... I always try to keep some cabal behind in case they tutor for their equipments, which has already helped a bit, but I'm still losing most matches 1-2. Thalia is an absolute bitch whom makes sweepers often come too late at too high a cost. Anyway, I would like to hear some opinions on what to board out (in is pretty obvious). My latest version of my BUGpod list:
Mainboard:
3x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Baleful Strix
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x True-Name Nemesis
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sower of Temptation
2x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Thragtusk
1x Kodama of the North Tree
1x Acidic Slime
1x Consecrated Sphinx
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Birthing Pod
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Island
2x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
2x Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard:
4x Force of Will
2x Envelop
2x Swan Song
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Golgari Charm
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Thoughtseize
My current plan is to do the following:
In: +1 Reclamation sage, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Toxic Deluge, +2 Golgari Charm
Out: -2 Ponder, -1 Liliana (often too slow), -1 Eternal Witness (sloooow), -1 ???
So I'm stuck here. I could choose not to board in the thoughtseize, but an extra card to take BS/Jitte after SFM seems valuable. I know there's a few slots in my list that are a bit atypical. The Kodama is still being tested. TNN is a card that I personally love and has served me very well. Every time I play that card it's just awesome. He is also the perfect blocker against batterskull or Jitte holding creatures.
Siding out Ponder can't be right, it ensures you hit your landdrops with your mana hungry deck vs their denial. I'm pretty sure double Glen Elendra Archmage is not needed postboard, and you can probably shave another fatty.
You have a good point about the fatty, I'll probably board out the Kodama as that one is less necessary. The glen's are of course not optimal, but in my meta the D&T decks pack a decent amount of flyers, so that's why I'm not overly fond of cutting them, but one might be right. Ponder is rather bad with Thalia in play and I rather have an answer than having to dig for them. Usually I don't have the time to do fancy stuff and need to spam blockers into sweepers to have a chance at all. On paper the match up looks pretty decent as we have deed and stuff, but in my experience they always have the perfect cards/answers in every situation. Very, very annoying. For now I'll try:
In: +1 Reclamation sage, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Toxic Deluge, +2 Golgari Charm
Out: -1 Ponder, -1 Liliana, -1 Eternal Witness, -1 Kodama, -1 Glen elendra Archmage
Playing this at my LGS tonight. I'm more interested in having fun (playing Ob Nixalis and Pack Rat) than winning, but I went 4 - 0 with a similar decklist recently.
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Pack Rat
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Ob Nixalis, Unshackled
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Ploughshares
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
SB:
1 Ashen Rider
1 Chains of Mefistopholes
4 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Malstrom Pulse
SB is hilariously bad too, but should be fun!
Pridemage could be a Rec Sage, but the body is better. Still undecided on that one.
EDIT: I'd like a Fierce Empath in here to fetch titan and ob, maybe cut the rat. It's not tutorable at all.
Thrun, the last troll
I don't understand the idea to put in every Nic Fit deck this card, because of two things: 1) in the miracles matchup - the opponent has Terminus or Supreme verdict to stop Thrun(
2) in the delver matchup - for my opinion it's a bit slower creature to have pressure on the opponent, and after Pernicious deed, i think, Scavenging ooze has to be more interesting.
Where am i wrong?
P.S. Sorry for my english, it's not my native language)
I have a well established hatred for Thrun. The card is fine in Punishing Fit, bad in every other version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
He can survive Supreme Verdict if you have mana to regenerate him. Terminus is good for a reason, we can't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
Against Delver, I agree post-Deed Scavenging Ooze is better. Pre-Deed Thrun is just awesome, and can only be removed by Liliana of the Veil.
Thrun is a durable threat, reduces the options the opponent has to deal with him. Terminus is fine, they burn a terminus to put Thrun back into my deck which means I still have 5 copies of him available. Against delver, if you can keep the delver off the board then thrun becomes a wall that they cannot remove which can buy a ton of time to get a Lily or a Deed. If you run Kessig then there is no reason not to have access to him, personally I would remove huntmaster or even ooze before I take thrun out of this list.
I believe ive voiced my dislike for Thrun and my reason why before in this thread, but I shall do so once more.
Thrun's greatest weakness isn't his survivability (or supposed lack thereof) while on the battlefield or being cast, but because his uncounterability, lack thereof when used with GSZ and Legendary supertype forces certain deckbuilding restraints within the Nic Fit archetype just to get a beefier Troll Ascetic that can still be countered when tutored for.
Ended up going 3-1 with that deck tonight, with odd outcomes to some matchups.
R1 vs Manaless Dredge.
G1: Managed to T1 Exploder, T2 Therapy naming bridge, hit one, then fetch up lands removing the bridge...turn three Thrun and the I topdecked a GSZ for Scooze which finished it up. The scooze took three very tight turns though as I had three green sources and his GY was stacked, but I got there.
G2: He didn't have great dredges, and I had Exploder + Therapy again to ramp, then GSZ for KotR which got Bojuka Bog.
1 - 0
R2 vs ANT
G1: He opens with Swamp, petal, Ponder on the play and shuffles. I kept a super solid but greedy 1-lander with DRS, Therapy and GSZ. I don't draw a land and Bayou go. He topdecks a Volcanic and plays a Preordain, bottoms both and passes. I don't draw a land but therapy naming BS. I assumed his hand was full of cantrips. It hits a BS and there are two more Preordains. I burn the GSZ to get a Dryad Arbor and take both the Preordains which left him with a Dark Ritual and a Tutor. He draws lands for two turns while I draw two STP. I finally get my second land and play Liliana which finishes off the game.
G2: Kept a slow hand with 3 lands, Witness, GSZ, Chains of Mefistopholes and Deed. Could have definitely been a mull, though. Managed to survive until T2 and played chains. He had to EOT decay it, I then GSZd for Teeg (he then moaned and told me he was about to go off). He couldn't find an answer to teeg that next turn, I drew a therapy, played it hitting a tutor, witnessed it back and took some rituals then stripped the last card which was PiF in his hand. He had four lands in play. I had drawn a GsZ the turn before which fetched an ooze to eat it and that was game.
2 - 0
R3 vs DnT
This is meant to be a good matchup right? Deed is quite good vs them, right? Well, I can't remember the exact details, but I drew very, very little lands in both games. It was very frustrating for a Nic Fit deck to be mana screwed, and this wasn't even down to ports/wastes. I just couldn't draw lands to save my life.
2 - 1
R4 vs Lands
Sorry, but I can't remember most of the details to this match either as I was getting quite tired. Both games went very long, but I ended up winning 2 - 0. Bojuka Bog did a lot of work in both games, and Oozes won it. He never managed to assemble Marit Lage as I had Liliana, StP and Karakas to answer it. I was also able to flood the board too much to be contained with Mazes.
Considering the matchups I was pretty surprised to go 3 - 1, and to lose to DnT!
The way DnT usually beats BUG Pod is by taxing its mana with rishadan ports, wastelands, and thalia and winning before we can fully recover. If you can mitigate that, you'll usually be alright. To that end, I recommend playing 4 Deathrites and 4 Veteran Explorers in the deck. I also play 4 Baleful Strixes, though 3 is probably ok. These help you cycle through your deck and get mana in the early game so that you can play your more powerful cards later (like deed and pod) and stop them from getting too far ahead with equipments.
Like you already figured out, Thalia makes non-creature spells pretty awkward. I only play 4 brainstorms and no ponders in my list, and I usually side out 1-2 brainstorms against DnT, so siding out both ponders seems completely fine to me.
Generally I'd try and reduce the casting costs in the deck as much as possible. Kodama of the North Tree is not needed to beat them, and costs a lot of mana. The second Glen Elendra probably isn't needed either. Though I love acidic slime, I think it is not needed any more at all now that Reclamation Sage exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UseLess
I managed to go 4-1-1 yesterday :). I will write a report later, but the sum up is that I won from Shardless BUG, D&T (FINALLY!!), Mono W soldiers (with chalice and armageddon) and BUG delver. I lost in a single game from Aggro loam (he had his single devastating dreams when I had 7 lands and a consecrated sphinx...) and I had a fair draw against BANT. Overall the deck performed really sweet. Phantasmal Image was great all night and I severely underestimated the card. My best moment with it was to slam a Kodama against BUG in game 2 and while my opponent cringed I said "I'll even make it better!" and copied it with my Image, just to think "maybe this card is legendary?", which it was... We and some people who watched the game had a laugh. It didn't matter much as I was winning anyway, just a lot slower now. Everything in the list just worked for me and also the sideboard was good. While I didn't play against any combo I never felt I wanted more slots dedicated to fair match ups.
About boarding vs D&T, I managed to forget to board out a card that I had writtenhere, which was my eternal witness. I'll try next time to go without ponders. I'm still testing here what's best, but all in all the games went pretty well. Acidic slime was good all evening, blowing up also the occassional land, which I find rather attractive every now and then. I prefer it over the sage mainboard, because I already have three 3-drops that function very well (I still love TNN and it was good every time I had it). More later.
So the match ups in a bit more detail:
Round 1 versus Shardless BUG 2-0
g1: I don't remember much of this game. I think it was pretty grindy seeing the life totals that both went gradually down. If I recall correct a deed managed to clear his board the moment he had some serious stuff out after which I pushed trough his life.
g2: I manage to develop my mana of an early veteran and from there seem to win the game rather easily.
Round 2 versus BANT 1-1
g1: He gets an early TNN and SFM, I saw his hand and next turn can go cast deed, but he top decked a daze in his turn so my deed was countered. After that more TNN's and equipments followed, I died rather quickly.
g2: We exchange dudes, discard, counters and removal for a while. I can't remember how, but I killed him after some time.
g3: This was a long and exciting game, both going rather quickly in semi-top deck mode. We exchange cards again and not much happens and we go into time. At this point I can't win anymore and just need to survive, while he finds a Batterskull with a SFM. At some point I have 6 lands and cast Eternal Witness to get TNN back and quickly cast it as a blocker for the batterskull. He reveals a daze and I slam my head as I look at the land in my hand that I should have played BEFORE the TNN... My deck is kind though and gives me a blocker or removal so I don't die in the extra turns. Big mistake, but luckily the same result.
Round 3 versus D&T 2-0
I hate to play against D&T, I can't say it enough. However, these games were quite enjoyable (and not just because I won).
g1: He opens with a plains and I put him on either miracles or D&T, so I fetch basics just to be sure and cast veteran. His second turn he casts Miss Bitch (Thalia) and I know for sure he is on D&T. I keep my cabals in hand as he fetches next turn a SofaI with a SFM. In my third turn I rip his SoFaI away and see a crusader that I need to take as well as my hand is pretty dead against that card atm. I think he also had a Jitte which I blew up with a hardcasted Acidic slime. A scavenging ooze at my side prevented him from really going into attack mode, but ports kept me from doing much. We each build up a bit and exchange some dudes (avenger vs strix etc.). Neither of us can get an upper hand, until I manage to steal one of his flyers with my Sower of Temptation. Backed up by another Strix he can't do much with his sole flickerwhisp and I slowly start chipping away his life total. I just keep spamming dudes and he eventually scoops up his cards.
g2: He actually doesn't know that I'm playing Pod, which is in my favor. He does his thing again with Thalia, two moms and a crusader, while I have a TNN and some other creature (acidic slime I think). I hold at some point 2 abrupt decay in my hand to kill either Thalia or a mom if he decides to attack through TNN with the crusader but he doesn't. Instead he builds up Avenger into Moat. I did not expect that one! However, it actually gives me some air as I don't have to worry about the ground dudes anymore. A phantasm copies his avenger and He swings in with prot white from mom after blocks. Two decays later he has no more flyers and I take control of the game. A golgari charm makes sure he isn't going to do anything anymore and I kill him after I get a pod out to get my EDH cards.
2-0!! YES YES YES. 2-0-1 and winning from D&T, my evening was complete.
Round 4 versus Mono W soldiers 2-1
g1: I know my opponent and he either plays MUD or mono W soldiers, both with mainboard chalice of the void. My blind cabal hits and my deck does what it does. Killing his stuff and then going bigger.
g2: I don't have many creatures out as he plays some dudes. I have a deed so that is no problem, up to the moment he plays armageddon.... After some turns I manage to get three lands in play and a deed, and in his turn I go from 3 to 1 from his only card in play, a daru warchief. I need a non-fetch land to blow his win up and take control, but I draw something useless...
g3: He mulligans to five and my T1 thoughtseize, T2 cabal (hitting double Thalia) put him so far behind that he never is in the game. Too bad he lost like this.
Round 5 versus Aggro Loam 0-1
g1: This took forever. He plays SLOW (and has a reputation to do so) even after asking to speed up. I'm in a good position most of the game and when having 7 land I slam my consecrated sphinx, after he used double Pfire to get rid of my glen elendra. He turns out to have his one-off devastating dreams which he can cast for 7... There go all my basics. From there I can get some duals in play and even some creatures, hitting him to 3, while he plays slow and does basically nothing. I could have conceded but I wanted to try to win this game, as my deck isn't likely to win in 15ish minutes anyway. He takes control slowly and I die from a gigantic ooze after 48 minutes... Lame, he gave me a decent chance by not wastelocking me and I had a slim shot to kill him, but failed. I don't know if it would have been better to concede, but I lose after quite a frustrating game (he is slooooowwww...).
Round 6 versus BUG delver 2-0
I need to win this one to get into the prices
g1: I open with DRS, followed by a DRS from him. I'm reasonably happy at this point as BUG decks are usually decent match ups. My Abrupt decay makes short work of his DRS and I start to grind a bit. Once I get a veteran out and search for basics he quickly dies as he didn't have the right removal/counters at the right time.
g2: T1 veteran ensures that I can develop my mana base, and I ripped his apart with cabals. As I know exactly what he has in hand I'm pretty free to cast spells without needing to fear counters, getting out a pod. He struggles to not get overwhelmed and at some point has a delver, but I think my archmage keeps him at bay. The order of things is a bit fuzzy, but my most briljant play was slamming Kodama and copying it with my image. While I do so I think out loud "oh but unless it is legendary" which it is... He needs to block my kodama with his goyf killing both of them. I know that I had my archmage in play but no more five drops to go for with pod (he hymned my thragtusk and I boarded out the slime). Anyway, with pod out the match up is nigh unbeatable and at some point he has nothing anymore and my creatures just keep coming.
Finally a decent result again with 4-1-1 and some store credit as price. The deck performed really well and most matches were fun to play. I only played against fair decks so I'm curious how it will do now against combo. Tonight I played an interesting game against miracles going 1-1 when he was the last turn of extra time on 1 and I had a DRS, but due to RiP no way of killing him directly. I can either attack or kill the RiP with my Abrupt. I chose the latter, but it didn't matter as he had a terminus on top which he drew with top. The miracles match up is a bit 50/50 and actually pretty interesting. Lost against some weird Jund deck and won from burn. Thragtusk and DRS made short work of his burn plans. Dropped at 1-1-1 as I didn't feel like playing another 3 rounds. Plenty of other things to do (like typing this).
Anyway, great deck, good matches and a lot of fun and capable of winning! Just need to play a little better, I regularly make mistakes that I immediatly see afterwards, so those can be mitigated. I hope that I'll be able to give the deck a spin at a larger tournament at some point. Would be awesome to try and get consecrated in some top X list.
I am playing in an IQ sunday and as I havent been able to get a BUG list together that I really like I will probably just play my fire list.
4 grove of the burn willows
2 bayou
1 taiga
1 badlands
3 verdant catacombs
3 wooded foothills
3 swamp
2 forest
1 mountain
1 phyrexian tower
1 kessig wolf run
4 veteran explorer
1 scavenging ooze
2 eternal witness
1 huntmaster of the fells
1 thrun, the last troll
1 thragtusk
1 primeval titan
4 green sun's zenith
4 cabal therapy
2 thoughtsieze
2 gitaxian probe
3 liliana of the veil
3 pernicious deed
3 sensei's diving top
3 punishing fire
3 abrupt decay
SB
2 blood moon
2 slaughter games
2 surgical extraction
2 golgari charm
1 abrubt decay
3 red elemental blast
2 duress
1 garruk, primal hunter
My guess for the meta will be lots of delver and stoneforge decks so I think jund may actually better suited for it anyway, but I really want to figure out a bug list to play eventually here.
What are some ppls sideboards right now? mine has been smth like this for a while now but in a larger event I may want to stream line the board better than when I play in a 20 person weekly.
Has anybody been running 1 or 2 deathrites main in a fire list and if so how have they been? My main concern is that in reality there seems to be few times that I actually want to gsz for ramp that I want DRS more than vet but in the case of grave hate I could see it being useful...
My other concern is that with 2 probes, plus 2 TS main I have actually pretty few win cons for some matchups, specifically decks with swords to plowshares so what are some ppl are running, I have a garruk in the board for slower decks but a decent gsz target would be nice. Is anybody on broodmate still?
You could try looking at my list and the pertinent discussions of the PFire version in the last several pages. Should answer a lot of your questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Just chill on the BUG versions until Khans comes out. I'm sure there'll be some toys that will revolutionize bug-colored iterations in that set.
I'll be at the SCG Invitational tomorrow doing battle. I won't specify exactly my list or which subversion I'll be playing, but let's just say that I'm keeping up my end of the deal as part of the family. Expect a report(s) when I return. Hopefully I can get a camera match =D
I'll be cheering for you buddy. Agreed though, definitely looking forward to new BUG and Junk goodies in Khans.
@HoneyT
-Your list uses choke instead of carpet of flowers do you still like choke over flowers even with an additional 6 drop and a 4th sdt to sink mana into?
- This may not be a consideration for you (in my weekly it is for me) but thoughts on your lands/depths match up? no answer to marit lage?
-I actually am liking the Kgrip over the 4 decay in the board
@Arianrhod
- Good luck
- The bug deck has kind of just become my project, trying to make a BUG control deck with vet. So many options but havent seemed to put anything together, the vet walkers build I tried seemed very interesting but played out very different than what I was anticipating. I have some ideas but I guess in a month we can see if anything more has been added.
My latest punishing Fit list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
2 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
2 Eternal Witness
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
I took down 2 weekly with it.
I have beaten Dredge 2-1, Merfolk 2-0, Jund 2-0, BUG Shardless 2-0, Burn 2-1, Miracle 2-0, D&T 2-1, Deadguy 2-0, S&T 2-1, Patriot Delver 2-0
The list is tuned for an unknown meta (as a lot of players own a lot of different decks and you never know what they are going to play).
M.D Ghost was featuring 2 DRS in his list during a long time (1 MD & 1 SB) and was very happy with it.
Few comments about the latest change I made to my list:
1) Dryad militant was moved to SB.
2) Thrun & Primeval got the axe.
3) Batterskull is now included MD as the late game "finisher"
4) Garruk relentless has replaced Garruk, primal hunter
5) No utility lands (got cut with Primeval)
6) 2 diabolic edict are now included MD
7) Gaddock is now played in SB and a savannah is included MD.
This list is more Maveryish than others, but I like it. Having access to different pieces of hate with 4 GSZ is really powerful:
- Dryad was MVP against dredge
- Huntmaster can "race" a Grisel. First game (knowing the opp was on S&T) I kept a mulligan to 4 with 2 lands 1 edict 1 Huntmaster. He slamed Grisel off a S&T on turn 2 and I was able to grind him out with the Hunt and the tokens... Game 2, I mulled into oblivion and G3 was not even close as I had one of the best hand vs combo (cabal, vet, TS, surgical, 1 forest, 1 fetch, 1 slaughter game).
- Gaddock has yet to prove itself but I'm sure he will, eventually.
- Finks was good where I was not expected it (mainly for burn match and to go aggro against combo) but finally it really shined in fair matches (D&T, Jund, Shardless). Didn't see him against burn, Thragtusk & BSK were enough to seal the deal on their own...
- Sage won me an unwinnable game against D&T where I had to cope with an avenger equiped with BSK. He did also some good work against Merfolk dealing with a Jitte.
@Ralf
So you've cut the 4th Top. Thought it was compulsory to punshing fit.
I like the 1off Savannah/Teeg. Gives me a reason to play my beta savannah (!)
2 Thoughtseize and the 2 diabolic edicts main, mind explaining these?
Tom, I'll be there with my Rector list on sunday. Hopefully I do better then the last time. 0-3 to sneak/show, miracles and ant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
ThoughtseizeQuote:
Originally Posted by litenkatt
To improve the odds of beating combo.decks G1. 14 black mana sources help a lot when it comes to T1 = swamp + discard. Furthermore, this discard configuration gives access to some pretty devastating starting hands with CT + TS.
This was also a personal choice to free up to 2 slots in the sideboard for hate bears instead of the usual 3 or 4 TS come in from the side against combo.
Diabolic edict
In a lot of MU, I have found that sometimes I was missing a fundamental and very crucial turn to take control of the game, either:
- to get punish going
- to stabilize
- to kill the strong T2 threat of my opponent (protected either by counter or because my removal was discarded during opponent T1)
So I felt like I needed an extra cheap but powerful removal.
Pulse is good but cannot always be online T2. So I cut it.
Diabolic edict was the next logical choice. Innocent blood has also been considered because of its CMC & inherent synergy with veteran but the sorcery speed thing is relevant in some match up and in late game diabolic edict > IB.
Subsequently, it also has strenghtened one of our worst MU = Show & Tell.
How about great stable stag? too lame?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I wish we had something like phyrexian or Mirran crusader in green instead...Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Stag is.... No, Stag does not belong to this deck :cry:
I wish we had something like gaea's revenge but less then 7 mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like the diabolic edict, will probably run 2 though not sure if MD or in the board. I will probably replace the 2 probes for something but not sure, I like being able to create bootleg TS off of probe therapy. My only concern is giving up 2 slots for the effect. I have rarely been unhappy with them but they are also pretty low power overall...
Has any body (I am assuming this would most likely be you Jbone as your on rector) used chains in the board? I had it in there for a while but it never seemed to do as much as I hoped and it does fall to deed. If anybody swears by it I could throw that in the side.
What I also like about edict is that it could help the lands matchup. Not sure why my local is infested with it (The SCG KC had 2 top 16 lands decks and both of those players play here) so I like to have some answer to that deck, I played Rw painter wed and turn 1 blood moon against it felt sweet :) I will probably not run my blood moons sunday as they are basically for lands or shardless as I dont like spending a turn mooning delver, at least the rug variant. Has not worked as often as I would like.
Diabolic edict are great, really. Could be a meta-call but since the two last weekly, they are gonna stay for a while. It feels like I have "lost" some power in the very late game (less bombs) while strenghtening the early game. If your field is a combo/tempo one (as mine), there is "no" late game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Dealing main deck with Marit or Kukul is no joke.
Huntmaster / Ooze / BSK have taken the 'lead'.
In grindy MU, Ooze/ BSK are my punching machines, usually a 8/8 or 10/10 vanilla bear or a 5/5 veteran vigilance lifelink.
In combo MU, Mr Hunt is the Boss. 3 or 4 turn clock. But still, I'm looking for another cheaper clock MD which could be useful in other MU.
There is Tarmo or Strangleroot Geist. I will likely test Geist as my 61th card.
I'm a fan of chains in Pox but never got to use them in Nic Fit. Jund players usually put 1/2 in the side and replace their 1/2-of Sylvan library in relevant MU. Space is tight. I could see it relevant but you would need 2 of them, at least to improve the odd of seeing one.
Hey guys,
First time poster on the Nic Fit threads. I am on Jund (non-Nic Fit) right now and I am thinking of making a switch to Nic Fit because I really like the idea of a toolbox deck with lots of utility cards.
The BUG version of Nic Fit interests me the most, however I have seen a bunch of posts saying to hold off on BUG until Khan is released.
I am playing in the open on Sunday and would like to try and bring Nic Fit with me if at all possible. Does anyone have any suggestions as far as a Nic Fit version for someone like me?
Thanks.
The punishing fire lists should be very easy to transition into from Jund (there have been a few lists in the last couple pages). I'd say that's your best shot on short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
The BUG pod lists are awesome but definitely take some practice to get the hang of, it's a deck where you really have to be thinking a few turns out as well as know how to respond with all of your one-of's.
Ralf, without the titan have you found late game gsz less effective? Usually titan is game where hunt and ooze both die to most of the removal spells (swords, decay, bolt). being able to grab double groves is usually good enough to stabilize most board states though i have been recently not liking the wolf run though I used to love it so i am assuming its just some varience in game states leading to those feelings.
I saw some old jund lists played an underground sea with swan song in the board for combo matchups. Thoughts on a trop -> 2/3 song, basically replace the sideboard discard and open the post board matchups with that out of the side. Too deep?
Bryanzoll- what type of bug version are you looking at? I'm trying to make a non-pod version so i have some thoughts on that but none on pod decks.
Jund runs twice as many fetches and has Deathrite Shamans. I also can't imagine it panned out too well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
If I ran smth like that I would also move 2 drs into the main to facilitate as well. So with gsz it would help you land a deathrite if you didnt see a fetch. I think the main idea wouldnt be would it be hard to produce a blue mana (that can be done) it would be would the swan song be useful enough to commit that many slots to. sounds like you think it wouldnt so thats fair. I didnt know if anyone had seen those or heard that or not.
Well, another thing to consider is that after all of these changes, how much better is Swan Song than your basic Duress or Reb?