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umm i think that you forgot tendrils is your lists, pulpfiction.
these lists seem a little land heavy no? fetches + duals would thin your deck a little more so you are drawing what you want.
also, isnt diabolic content doing the same thing as burning wish but for 1 mana more?
i do like the threat density without too high off CC's. looks like you could draw alot with AdN with those builds.
i think that the threat of infernal loop with IGG is too good to pass up. at least run one ya?
Ad Nauseam and 5cc is just too inconsistent, you need the Draws 4s and 3cc to either set up or start the chain. At best Ad Nauseam is either a suppliment to the Draw 4s, or it's a replacement for Ill Gotten Gains.
I'd consider Strategic Planning for building Threshold for Cabal Ritual, or just sculpting your hand with Brainstorm and Ponder until you're ready to go off.
@ Vacrix: Fixed, forgot to post my kill sources in my lists, sorry.
@ Breath Weapon: I agree with you that it is to inconsistent so we need to make it consistent, because this has the potential to be the most explosive deck in Legacy.
Alright, my new version of SITES turned out to be shitty as hell so I won't even bother with that. However, I think that the Kobolds + Cabal Therapy and Culling the Weak are the way to go. I am not so sure that Infernal Tutor is better than Diabolic Intent in these builds so maybe we can cut LED and Infernal Tutor and jam in some red rituals or something and I just loved Mystical Tutor in the deck. Also, I really think Pact of Negation belongs in the deck. It is really solid. I am just throwing ideas out there so please humor me. What about a build like this:
4x Ad Nauseum
4x Seething Song
4x Manamorphose
4x Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Diabiloc Intent
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Culling the Weak
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chrome Mox
8x Kobolds
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Grapeshot
3x Tomb of Urami
4x Gemstone Mine
3x Forbidden Orchard
Something different. Seething Song and Manamorphose work incredibly well together but will drawing only one of them at a time prove to be so clunky to make the deck work right? I will test it out.
The Kobold and Culling the Weak shell just doesn't seem to work for me, slowing down seems like the best option, reducing the acceleration but increasing the tutors, cantrips and land drops.
A slow setup build:
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Meditate
2 Ad Nauseam
2 Tendrils of Agony
after going off with a Ad Nauseam, you can mystical tutor your way into a tendrils and then draw it with the card draw that you draw from AdN. i think also that having only 2 AdN's lowers your total CC which is on the high side anyway, and allows you to draw less of them. i wouldnt mind casting that though off of the first draw4 when im at 10 life.. AdN is like the IGG for QSI cause its not really necessary but it can be very game breaking but only if you draw set it up (like infernal tutor/LED/IGG).
i think that the main problem is that playing it in a fast build makes it clunky and useless in a lot of situations, but when you draw it in the right places, its insanely explosive and game breaking. but when you play a card built for speed in a slower deck, it makes it more consistent when you cast it but will this build have enough mana to play turn 1 mystical tutor go, turn 2 go off? the other builds have access to ESG, SSG, more rituals, and summoner's pact. as the QSI shell gives it more consistency and less speed..
I was just looking around at deck lists and noticed that someone took 3rd place at The Source 2 -Man Tournament with SI. It didn't say who was playing it but it was the 2x land version with 3x Tenrdils and 4x Cabal Therapy main. Does anyone have any idea who this is? And it would be awesome to see a tournament report in this thread as well as an explanation of some of the SB choices. Good to see SI doing well again.
ReportQuote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Very interesting, thanks for the link. I had no idea that was on here.
how about lich's mirror in this deck?
i mean the deck is made for winning turn 1/2 but if you fizzel you can just put down the mirror and unless they destroy the mirror you'll have another chance to get that turn 1 win when they break it. At the very least you'll have time to regroup by the time they get some artifact destruction. And if they don't have Artifact destruction MD imagine how annoying it would be to keep casting lich's mirror over and over starting turn 1, until you have that 'god' hand that leads to a win immediately after a mirror is broken.
just an idea i had
But you could also put something in the deck instead of Mirror which doesn't make you fizzle - a Draw4, Tendrils, Iggy, Nauseam etc. If you obviously could drop Mirror, you don't have a lack of mana, so you could cast all those cards to continue the combo.
The black recycle card is better than Lich's Mirror. When it comes out you don't fizzle. The obvious drawback that we encountered while playtesting it was that even as a 1-of or 2-of, it was usually Chrome Mox fodder.
here is an idea. its untested, so yeah:
Lich's Mirror
Final Fortune
(serum powder)
final fortune, if you have enough land, is cool anyway in storm combo. lets you untap, and, i'm pretty sure, you keep the storm from the following turn until it is your opponents turn, so it could be very nice, especially (if this works) you run into additional final fortunes. then you can play lich's mirror to negate the FF and draw 7. btw, can you play spells in your end phase? if so, you could break an LED in your END phase when you would lose the game and then you would shuffle everything into your deck because you lose at the end of turn and then play an instant speed storm spell that you draw (ie. brainfreeze if the storm count is high enough you can win, if not, you can keep going and win using lich's mirror's to keep stalling).
also, mulliganing only works during turn 0 when you draw 7 cards right? you can't mulligan after Lich's mirror. just thought i would check cause it could be sick with serum powder.
would this work in SI? it a bit farfetched but it just might work if its structured correctly. lich's mirror also fits in well to the Pact version, which needs more mana to resolve mirror and FF anyway. and you don't lose to pact of negation or summoners pact, so protection and mana are easy to fit into this.
if the biggest problem lich's mirror faces is chrome mox, you won't have as many problems as you will in Pact SI as it has more mana and i'm not even sure if it runs chrome mox.
also, would 1 AdN in place of a tendrils be good in the land grant/tall man build? or is it hard to fit into that version? or would there be a better replacement for AdN? maybe cut 1 IGG? I mean AdN is an amazing infernal tutor target.
emidln, what is the black recycle card?Quote:
The black recycle card is better than Lich's Mirror. When it comes out you don't fizzle. The obvious drawback that we encountered while playtesting it was that even as a 1-of or 2-of, it was usually Chrome Mox fodder.
Null Profusion
thanks. is there any testing with it? results?
if not, i will test it, but in which version and what should i cut for it?
It works fine in place of one of the IGG in the BG Land Grant version. rsaunder played with it for a long time and liked it a lot. I thought it was really cool, but never really pursued SI much in a tournament since I tested it. I might be able to dig up the testing results from the BZK forums. I'll check and post back if I find something interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
please that would be really cool, as I actually own the BG land grant version so i could play it in my local FNM tournaments.Quote:
It works fine in place of one of the IGG in the BG Land Grant version. rsaunder played with it for a long time and liked it a lot. I thought it was really cool, but never really pursued SI much in a tournament since I tested it. I might be able to dig up the testing results from the BZK forums. I'll check and post back if I find something interesting.
What about straight B/G? I know it slows the deck down a little, but I would like to test a list that looks something like this.
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Kobolds
4 Culling the Weak
4 Dark Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Diabolic Intent
4 Manamorphose
3 Ad Nauseum
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Bayou
1 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Delta/Mire
2 Foothills/Heath
This is just a rough list thrown together and I'm sure it needs work. The entire CMC of the deck is 63 which means a 1.05 avg cmc...AdN is at its best when you can see the most cards out of it, ensuring that you can win after it has resolved. The best way to see the most cards out of it is to play as low an avg cmc in your deck as you can without taking away the consistency or ability to win. I Played U/B AnT at TMLO4 with the avg cmc being exactly 1. I think that if you are going to play AdN you need to find a way to lower the cmc avg of your deck while at the same time not destroying its actual consistency or game.
I believe this list needs more robots/kobolds: you have 12 ways of sacrificing creatures (Culling, Cabal, diabolic intent) with only 8 critters in the deck (4 of which cost mana and are not always castable). I'd test your list with:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaagooch
-2 Diabolic intent
+1/2 creature of choice
+0/1 Ad Nauseam
Only run Kobolds if the deck needs Red mana (to imprint on Chrome Mox), otherwise run Phyrexian Walker and Shield Sphere because they are infinitely better. Xantid Swarm is a good SB card but sucks in the main and should most likely be replaced by Duress (since Thoughtseize takes away life). Cutting green completely with a red splash is IMOP the way to go. Interesting take on the deck though this idea has inspired me to attempt a new build of Ad Nauseam in SI:
8x Kobolds
4x Rite of Flame
4x Culling the Weak
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chrome Mox
3x Ad Nauseam
4x Infernal Tutor
4x LED
1x IGG
1x Tendrils
4x Burning Wish
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Badlands
SB:
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils
1x IGG
3x Shattering Spree
4x Duress
4x Tomb of Urami
1x Meta SB slot
I have not tested this idea yet but I certainly will since I am looking for any and all reasons to play SI again!
Ok, I really should be doing school shit but ... fuck it. I have been testing this deck out a little, and it is fantastic! The only bad thing is that it doesn't mulligan as well as it should but I have had a sick amount of turn 1 kills backed up by Therapy. Burning Wish is exactly what Ad Nauseam SI needed, the card is sick in this deck. The only thing I and thinking about doing is swapping out 2x Cabal Rituals for 2x Seething Song as the deck is oftentimes a little short, but I am not sure how necessary that would be since the deck has no real need for that much red mana. It also feels like it needs 2 additional search spells that aren't Diabolic Intent or Spoils of the Vault. I was thinking Tainted Pact or Plunge into Darkness but Pact is lame and Plunge is so anti-synergystic with Ad Nauseam its crazy. And, the deck also seems like it needs 1x Empty the Warrens in the main. There are those occassional hands where there will be exactly 4x mana floating after a Infernal Tutor and it would be nice to have 1 Warrens (where you will be 1 mana short of IGG loop). Also, with the Cabal Therapys it would not be awful casting Empty after Ad Nauseam since you can just discard all relevant spells in the opponent's hand then swing for the win next turn.