Printable View
Not to be mean or anything but this list is quite bad. Mana Leak? Misdirection? Bad calls, Brainstorm is needed as a 4 of and Fetches are also needed. CBTop is amazing in this deck use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
You Probably don't need 4 Trickbinds, 2 or 3 maybe but not 4. Trinket Mage almost always goes for EE or Top it only goes for Nought if you have the Stifle effect in hand.
If you rarely go for Dreadnought with Mage, and only occasionally are planning to have Stifle effects in hand, then why does the deck play 4 Dreadnought?
Dreadnought does nothing for you unless you have a Stifle effect in hand, and Dreadnought in multiples is completely worthless even then.
Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut Dreadnoughts (the piece of the combo that is completely worthless without the other half) before the deck cuts Trickbinds (the half of the combo that actually has a lot of functions even without the other half)?
I looked through the whole thread and I still don't see a strong argument for why cutting back on the versatile Trickbind slots made more sense than cutting back on the singleminded, useless in multiples and often dead in hand Dreadnought slots.
I guess I'm a little confused as to how to play the deck. I was under the impression that it wanted to combo out with Dreadnought as fast it can, while using blue control cards to disrupt your opponents plan and your protect your combo.
That's why I felt Misdirection and Mana Leak are effective, since both cards are great at protecting the combo and disrupting your opponents removal, bounce and countermagic.
If instead, this is closer to MUC with a combo win condition of sorts, then I can't understand how it could support 4 Daze since Daze is near useless by the midgame and I am wondering why it doesn't play more delay/controllish cards like Veldalken Shackles, Propaganda, Back to Basics and Powder Keg.
I guess it's more of an intermediate between the two. In past experience, that never works out too well, to try to do a bit of both. But the deck is clearly posting good results and I am really looking forward to trying it out some more...
I still feel that 4 Trickbind is worthwhile since the card is seriously never dead, and at worst, just pitches to FoW or can be shuffled away with Brainstorm.
So how about this...
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Tropical Island
// Creatures
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
3 Trickbind
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
Or do you feel that 4 Trickbind is an absolute no no in this deck?
I would never cut Dreadnought down to a 3 of, personally. Although you may think only 5-6 ways to combo with his is rather low, the reason it's more then enough for us is because we run Standstill (insane drawing engine) and cheap ways to find it like Brainstorm/Top. I think any more then 6 will probally create you to draw way too many Stifle effects thus being dead in your hand. Dreadnought is run as a 4 of, simple because it enables a much higher possibility of T2 Dreadnought which will flat out win you games in alot of matchups. So basically all I'd change from your list is -1 Trickbind +1 Dreadnought. Other then that, solid list.
Dreadnought has these cool untap tricks you can do(swing, ok take 12, play Dreadnought saccing my tapped one) it can be useful sometimes. Dreadnought will almost never be drawn as a dead card since we run Top and BS/Fetch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
That's the thing, Trickbinds were never cut from the deck, we only added 1 for versatility(can't spell?) maybe running 2 is a good call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Why Don't you fell the same way about Dreadnought(except the Force pitchability(word or no word?:confused: ))Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
This list seems pretty good, I will echo Roods' suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
It's not just that Trickbind fuels FoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
Trickbind without dreadnought is an uncounterable Sinkhole, and is useful versus Seals, Pernicious Deeds, Survival activations, Shackles activation to steal your nought before it deals lethal damage and lots of other random situations that seem to pop up in legacy.
Dreadnought without Stifle does nothing.
Trickbind is good but not an 4'er slot. Test the list with 2-3 of them, i dont think you've been playing the list above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
@Clark Kant:
All your posts are ... "agressive", try these try that, you havent play against this, would this be better ...
Sit down and please play the deck, your posting in some topics around the board and i dont think that you play all of them and really test them.
...with 12 Islands on the board ? I'm wondering which deck could manage to do this - even long drawn-out games versus Landstill never see them with more than ten lands on the board :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
A bad example, sure. But it's certainly possible.
You haven't experienced long drawn out games until you've played against Mono Blue Control.
Has anyone tried out Transmute Artifact over Trinket Mage? For the same three mana you can sacrifice a Seat of Synod to put nought into play, not your hand. Is the body for Warren's Weirding that important. He's just so slow.
Transmuting those extra tops seems good and Mishra's Factory is already an artifact so you wouldnt even need to make many accommodation's.
Mono Blue does not have more counters than you. Also, by forcing a standstill through, you do not have to go to the long game just beat w/ Factory. Like others have posted, you need to sit and test the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Interesting idea, but that will steal away from the consistency of the deck. IMO Dread is a mini combo thrown into the deck taking up 4 slots. It's not needed to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
The great thing about Trinket mage is he has dual purposes - He attacks and grabs you a needed artifact. I rarely ever get Naught with Mage. I usually use him to get a top for balance or a EE for kill.
He just seems so slow and everyone seems to want the nought combo asap. I know thats how I like it. Standstill fits perfectly but I dont think the deck should get in the habit of Landstill's late game. Landstill tends to run massive board sweeping effects such as Wrath and Deed. Your searching for Explosives so often because you need the sweeper when going late game. Rather than take the late game why not just turbo out with some massive counter magic?Quote:
Originally Posted by nditiz1
Reading all the tournament reports and my own experience with Nought all point me in direction of balls to the walls speed. The advantage of the creature is how fast he can kill your opponent. Why wait till turn 7/8?
EDIT
Btw I find my own copies of Threads of Disloyalty are extremely effective as an answer to my opponents. That way you can just take their own Dreadnought if it's mirror or take a goyf or something.
For the most part, you'll rarely experience yourself going into Landstill's late game with this deck. Normally if you draw a slow control hand and Standstill's you'll probally get drawn out until mid-game- overpower them with card advantage (Counterbalance, Standstill) Drop a Nought and win or just Trinket/Factory beat them to death. If you go strait up turbo speed you're weakening your ways to protect your Dreadnought thus your oponent's answers for him will most likely resolve. I've been testing the 2nd Trickbind over the 4th Spell Snare. It wasn't bad to say the least. I'm considering changing up my board a little bit, -1 Needle +1 EE for the simple reason that I normally never board in both so it's seemed kind of pointless to run more then 2.
Hey thought you might be interested, I allways use this site to keep up on current decks.
http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy
wow Rodney got 5 of the 6 wins! (not that it was unexpected)
You must also remember not many people are currently playing this deck right now outside of my team. Also would just like to add the Goyf Sligh matchup continues to be amazing for this deck. I played against Goyf Sligh tonight at a local tourny down in RI but his 4x Krosan Grip board wasn't enough to hate me out. (I think the deck itself total is like 15-0 against Goyf Sligh in rounds.) Roob, are you interested in posting your white splash list? I think his build is fairly optimal for the most part for white splash and I will edit my intro post with this decklist. Went 3-0-2, beat Survival, Goyf Sligh, drew in with my two teammates. Beat Survival again in top 4 and split it with my teammate Roob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maagler
My list for White Splash-Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
Main-60
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Tundra
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
Side-15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chill
2 Echoing Truth
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Engineered Explosives
Swiss
Beat Dragon Stompy 2-1
Lost to Storm 1-2 (mull to 4 Game1, no blue mana Game 3)
Beat FishDOTdec 2-0
Tie Dreadstill
Top4
Beat Storm 2-1
Tie Dreadstill
All in all, very solid list although I'm not sold on Threads in this list. Mainly because against Thresh(where you want threads) I already have to side in Mages and there isn't anything else I can side out to fit them in. Basically the match that I want it in I can't fit it in.
Also wanting to add in another Polluted Delta over some nonland card, but idk what to cut.
Oo, my MB is the same \o/, but i play no Wasteland, instead 1x Academy Ruins, 1x Polluted Delta, 1x Tundra. And in the SB no Chill, instead 3x BEB.
Sword is extremly good in this build, last week i played against burn/sligh an i sworded my own nought, because i had no CB in play and cant find a Stifle Effect, so +12 life :).
Also to clear the board before play a standstill, and so on ... nice splash color for Dreadstill.
I just played rob with the white splash list on Friday. Dreadstill spanks dragon stompy around like a bad little monkey. I also played it with ichorid, although i won 2/3 i think it was because of a play mistake.
I am just waiting to see this deck catch on. Its explosive power in the combo is great for the quick win, or the long game finisher. I was thinking though, would the addition of goyfs help the deck? I would not stretch it to three colors. I might go U/g for it.
Goyf is great, but a sideboard card at best. The list itself is incredible tight and I would not cut any control element cards (Spell Snares, etc) for him. And the Mages are just a beating bud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch@os
Your first white list wasn't that good, it ran Vision Charm and such. I really like the deck with Wastelands in it, I think my build is going to cut the one of Needle for another fetch/Island.
Also, we should get optimal builds for each splash on the first post, currently we have Uw and Ug. I think Black would also be a really good build with the addition of Confidant.
Yes my first lists were sort of experimental ;>, but now it seems an optimal white build has been found. These few different cards like play Wasteland or play not are not such a big deal and depends on the playstyle.
I've tried the black splash with Confidant, but its a very different playstyle with no real removal MB. And a UWB build is really strange because its not enough space for Sword & Confidant.
Some Ideas for an black splash? Just replace the three swords and the needle with 4x Confidant. Or add some extra Thoughtseize/Duress?
I was messing around with a black splash list the other day and I am not completely sure the deck can support Seizes and Confidants without having to sacrifice the Trinket Mages/toolbox and CB/top combo. Even though you may think Confidant is really needed, we already run Standstills and if we run 8 draw spells we're bound to just draw more draw spells and not many business spells. I'd mainly only splash black right now for Seizes main and Extirpates from the board.
This is what I've been screwing around with Rodney.
Ub Dreadstill:
Lands:19
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [IA] Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory
2 [B] Underground Sea
Creatures:7
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
Spells:34
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [LOR] Thoughtseize
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
Sideboard:15
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [6E] Chill
SB: 3 [PC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
Now as you can see there is no Dark Confidant, yes this hurts, but With Standstill, etc you already have a great draw engine so you can afford to not run the Bob's. Thoughtseize and Extirpate on the other hand are the big perks to the black splash both adding excellent disruption to the already strong tempo'd list. Also the golbin matchup is greatly improved by the addition of engineered plague.
To quote an Excellent Video game
"Richard, you're methods may be flawed, but our love for America is the same"
The black splash doesn't realistically look worth it to me. Instead of cutting spells to make room for discard and reactive cards like Extirpate , the white splash seems to me to offer more quality cards in the form of enlightened tutor. My thought behind this is simple, early dreadnaught is win against goblins. So why bother stalling with chill in the board, I'd rather just go for the win drop that naught, and counter their goblin edicts.
As an after thought, it will even Grab you Counterbalance Vs threshold but i wouldn't know what to side in over in that match up.
Also finds crypt for ichorid and needle for breakfast.
Taking this quote from the 'Results' thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanValentine00
I noticed that there is now an Ug version of Dreadstill?
Adding Goyfs makes sense, and increases the brokenness of Standstill.
Can you post a list of the Ug Dreadstill version?
Thanks!
There weren't any Goyfs in my list, the green is just there for the Krosan grips. Although you COULD replace them very easily in the sideboard for Goyf.
Just for reference, a Goyf version of my deck would probally look like
// Lands
2 [MM] Island (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [IA] Island (2)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [B] Tropical Island
// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [6E] Chill
SB: 4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
so you just cut the Krosan for Goyfs... I really liked the Krosans in the side, but right now I'm thinking between Chill and Back to Basics, what do you guys think?
My list still has the K Grips in...I did not cut them for Goyf. He asked for a UG list with Goyf and that's the closest list I came up with.
My Black list would be something like this.
Ub Dreadstill:
Lands:19
3 Polluted Delta
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Underground Sea
Creatures:8
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
Spells:33
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Snare
4 Thoughtseize
1 Trickbind
Sideboard:15
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
3 Chill
4 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
I think if you were to run a Black list it would have to use Dark Confidant. Everyone is saying "with Standstills etc. you already have a good draw engine". All I see for a draw engine is Standstill, which is fine. But I think using Bob rather than the Trinket Mage toolbox would be the best route for the black list. But think about it, Counterbalance, Top, and Bob in the same deck! That is just rediculous.
@Vanele(Garrett)- Why would you ever want to run Enlightened Tutor, it would just be more card disadvantage(see FoW) that the deck doesn't want. It also doesn't want to be relying so much on the combo. Also, Tutor + Standstill doesn't really sound like the best synergy to me.
I agree that the black splash requires Dark Confidant. Removing Trinket Mage was the best thing I ever did. I never wanted to see that card, as I usually didn't have enough mana or had nothing I wanted to fetch with him. I used to run white for Swords, which I miss dearly, but this deck needs to win with card advantage, so Black is likely a better choice. My list is exactly the same as the one above.
@Vanele(Garrett)- Why would you ever want to run Enlightened Tutor, it would just be more card disadvantage(see FoW) that the deck doesn't want. It also doesn't want to be relying so much on the combo. Also, Tutor + Standstill doesn't really sound like the best synergy to me.[/QUOTE]
The Key being Speeding out the Combo in the matches you need it to win COgoblinsUGH. and instead of wasting 3 slots on chill why not run something like this post board
// Lands
1 [MM] Island (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [IA] Island (2)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [b] Tropical Island
1 [a] Tundra
// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [4TH?] Enlightened tutor
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [OD] Standstill
This looks like a Stronger Goblins match up to me.
and to the Card advantage, I'm sure if you power out that early naught they will be worrying more about that.
Yes Confidant is great, but without Trinket you cant search for Top, the list contains only two. Also your screwed up to CotV or an opponent CB without EE.
The black list is much more straight but contains fewer options to get rid off some problems.
Van- If the only reason you want to make the change is for the Goblin MU, then I can tell you-it's not worth it. Powering out a fast Nought with few answers to back him will be met by an answer for Gobs. A good solution into beating them is running Needle (see Wasteland) and EE as a 1 of from the board.
EDIT-reading is svg tech.
Tinket for Needle is a common play I make. It is THE out if you play against 43land.dec with their Mazes of Ith. (which is very relevant in my meta.)
I decided to gear my sideboard for what I felt would be a heavy blue/Threshold meta at the Wareham tournament.http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...748#post223748The tournament was roughly 30 people.
I ended up taking 1st ranking wise overall, though we split the cash. My teammates Vanele, Stoohgenstein, and HammafistRoob all T8'd as well. Roob was playing his variant of Dreadstill as well and congrats to him. Anyways, here's the list I ran.
UR Dreadstill by Roodmistah
/ Lands
2 [MM] Island (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [IA] Island (2)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [U] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [6E] Chill
SB: 4 [U] Red Elemental Blast
All i can say is, I never missed the Krosan Grips and REB worked wonders all night for me. Also, dropping the 4th Snare for the 2nd Trickbind was savage and it worked out awesome for me. Total I went 6-0-2 drawing my first round against Landstill and intentially IDing with my teammate to get into Top 8.
Happy to see you adopted the 6 Stifle effects, I like the list, a lot.
Do you think 6 is the absolute maximum number of Stifle effects you're willing to test, or are you willing to test 7-8 (by cutting a Daze), along with the 8 Dreadnought sources (Trinket Mage, Dreadnought). At worst, they supplement your Wastelands to help you mana screw them.
One question.
MUC found itself recently cutting Brainstorm for 4 Ancestral Visions, and doing very well with them.
Given the two decks similarilities and Visions synergy with Standstill, what do you think of trying the card maybe as 2 of or something?
Daze seems like it could be a 3 of for onething, it's useless late game, and can be played around once your opponent knows you're running it.
Edit: Nm, if I'm not mistaken, all suspend cards are very dyssnergic with Standstill.
This deck plays fetchlands. Some MUC builds have run Chalice of the void. A control deck like that can not afford to take any life loss.
Yes I am very glad the extra Stifle effect helped alot I got matched up against control all day and the extra Trickbind shined alot. One thing I was fairly sad about is my inability to find a second Volc before the tournament. Without question the SB should be changed -1 Echoing Truth +1 Volcanic Island (For REB, Wasteland.) I would never run any less then 4 Dazes in this deck simple because the card itself has amazing synergy with dropping Dreadnought, or Standstill. If they attempt to kill Dreadnought you can back him with normally with multiple free counterspells and when they pop your Standstill if you are tapped out you can just Daze w/e they play. I would run more Dazes if I could. And as to the maximum number of Stifle effects I'd say that 6 is the max. I don't think I'd ever go over 6 Stifle effects for your Dreadnoughts as for the most part we dig for them very easily.
Rodney, we had another unused Volcanic Island... I told you that.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
Is that extra EE in the side needed?
Lately, I've been having some problems with Ichorid, anyone has any thoughts about it? Maybe I played my Crypts wrong, idk
And I like that Ur list, might be worth trying in my 'controlish meta (blue...)
Against Ichorid the plan is to counter their discard outlets(Pimp, Breakthrough, w/e) and use Dreadnoughts as a way to deal with Bridges if need be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullclamping
The list I ran at the Wareham tourney was-
Main-60
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
6 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
Side-15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Echoing Truth
3 Chill
1 Pithing Needle
1 Plains
Round 1- Dragon Stompy(TrialbyFire) I win this one 2-0
1-0
Round 2- Ug Dreadstill(Dan Cunningham) I win this one 2-1
2-0
Round 3- Rgb Goblins(some dude) I lose this one 1-2
2-1
Round 4- RW aggro thing(Joe) I win this one 2-1
3-1
Round 5-GBRSA(my teammate Stoohgenstein) ID into top8
Top8- UGwb Thresh(TheAtogLord) I lose 0-2
Rich Shay had some pretty good Counterbalance triggers against me and I made a risky but good play in game one that didn't pay off.
All in all I was pretty Impressed with how well the deck played out with the addition of Oring.
Props
Hammafist for taking 4 Top8 spots and 2 Top4 spots
Rodney for winning the thing
Garrett for play a joke deck and Top4ing w/ it
Stoohg for making the risky ID and making it in
Rodney for creating Dreadstill
Jared for pwning Jello after the tourney
Slay and Lego for absolutely hearting our theme song
Slops
Tom for getting KOud Brothers in the first two rounds
Rich Shay for being good at magic
Jared for not racing us on the highway
Garrett for being Garrett
2 ppl who played and failed with Dreadstill