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Just to be exhaustive, let's also mention Ignition Team . Unfortunately he is not powerful enough to even consider playing him just for lackey/instigator shenanigans.... at 7 mana he should do something MUCH more powerful, but he is geared towards multiplayer games.
Del.
Think I'd rather Koth of the Hammer or Domri Rade than the I-team.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90
Update notes
June 17th 2014
Re-structured the opening post. It should now be easier to read. I also wrote a whole new paragraph about the three subarchetypes of Goblins and added a lot of pictures.
Feedback is appreciated.
@Gobolord:
The link to suggested reading about Warchief and Chieftain links to a page without info on them.
You state that Stifle can turn a Piledriver into a Squire; it has pro-blue, however.
Small errors: The link is dead @Lackey part, 'cardadvantage' needs a space @Ringleader part, misspelled 'Show and Tell' @Stingscourger part, misspelled 'throw' @Krenko part, 'your' should be 'you' @Classic build part, a couple of errors @Sideboard part (mostly links and /cards).
I might've missed some things, but this is what I found. The structure looks good, I really like the updated sideboard part and the Krenko-SGC discussion.
Stifle targets the Triggered Abilities, not Piledriver itself. That's why it turns him into a Squire for a turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yio
Well hot damn, I stand corrected. A bit weird that protection doesn't cover that, but on the other hand the definition of protection would've been even more complicated. (Maybe a thing to add to the Piledriver page, or am I the only one who has made that mistake?)
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yio
Thank you for your conscientious proofreading.
In my mono red winstigator list I am finding it essential to maindeck the following:-
3 chrome mox
3 pyrokenesis
4 tarfire
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
Obviously the above give me acceleration, quick removal, and answers to problematic artifacts.
If you want a full deck list I can provide it.
In the subtype section blood moon is misspelled in section a aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Not a Goblins player, but this feels like a good line of thought. Goblins is pretty similar to Shardless BUG in many ways and that deck only runs two wastelands as an answer to troublesome lands instead of active disruption like D&T and Delver do. Being able to play your stuff and bury the opponent in raw CA is much more important to these decks' gameplan, I think. Surprisingly few Legacy decks actually have raw draw, so just drowning people in cards should work. It's what puts Shardless in DTB, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337erhosen
Shardless BUG has Force of Will and Abrupt Decay, which can deal with a lot of stuff. Goblins are prey to combo, and against every fair deck is a fair match (there are no cakewalks like in 2006 meta).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Still, these guys are rocking WInstigator lists, which seem clearly better nowdays (unless you're Jim Davis). I love it.
Got some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
In the Goblin Lackey explanation:
Perhaps the below wording is better? Also corrected the typo "we" to "he."Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I tend to disagree with the following:
Am I alone in thinking Rest in Peace, not Relic of Progenitus, is tier 1 against BUG Delver? Literally shutting off 8-10 actual real problems in the deck. Deathrite Shaman, Tarmogoyf and if they are playing it Tombstalker? I would even argue that it makes their Abrupt Decay marginally worse as they have so many live and important targets. Stretches it's applications thin.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Lastly, add Grenzo, Dungeon Warden to the to be tested section.
Went to a legacy event 3 towns over last night. Had some great match ups and went 3-1, but had to drop before round 5 due to work the next morning. The list is as follows:
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Gempalm Incinerator
3x Goblin Piledriver
3x Mogg War Marshall
3x Tarfire
1x Warren Wierding
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
4x Aether Vial
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
2x Badlands
1x Auntie's Hovel
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Arid Mesa
3x Mountain
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Ashen Rider
2x Perish
3x Pyrokenesis
1x Shattering Spree
2x Earwig Squad
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Grafdigger's Cage
Round 1: Shardless BUG 2-0
Game 1 he kept a sketchy hand with a ton of counters double wasteland, but I got a lackey turn 1 off a cavern and he scooped after I dropped Siege-Gang turn 2.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 and I hit a turn 1 vial, turn 2 vial and proceeded to out tempo him with 3 wastelands and 2 ports. (he told me he was new to the deck and sided out the FoW's due to my caverns)
Round 2: Elves 1-2
Game 1 he combo'd off with Craterhoof on turn 3
Game 2 I turn 1 lackey. He does things... I go turn 2 lackey. He does more things and shows me a Craterhoof in his hand. I drop perish for his entire board including 2 dryad arbors and he is stuck with just the beast in hand. He scooped.
Game 3 I played perish, perish, pyrokenesis and a grafdigger's cage this game and still lost. We both turtle for 5+ turns and I connect with a warchief to drop Earwig Squad grabbing his last 2 Glimpse of Nature's and his Craterhoof. He drops a Cradle and makes enough mana to cast the other Craterhoof he had in his hand. It was a grindy game and he earned it.
Round 3: ANT 2-1
Game 1 He combo'd off on turn 2.
Game 2 I hit him on turn 3 with a goblin token to get Earwig Squad taking his only win cons from his deck.
Game 3 is a repeat of game 1 play for play. He was pissed.
Round 4: Miracles 2-1
Game 1 I dont remember much about this one. He just got there miraculously.
Game 2 was just a redo of the ANT match-up taking his planeswalkers and I grinded him out.
Game 3 he mulled to 4 and scooped. I guess he wasn't in a good mood.
I had to drop before round 5 for work the next morning. But I got some good testing done. I love the black splash now. Though I feel some of my wins were from sheer luck and only a small amount of skill.
Nice result, congrats! Question: 4 Badlands or 2? You mention them two times seperately :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher
Oh sorry about that, only 2 Badlands. My girlfriend was using the other 2 in her deck that night. So I tried out the Auntie's Hovel. It's identical to Badlands, I never found myself unable to use it. Great budget card if anyone needs it.
Nice update Gobolord. My only suggestion would be to add a line about Kiki-Jiki in the WInstigator build.
Ok, so second try of the RWB build, with Grenzo, tomorrow. The list may seem a bit strange, but I'm trying things in smalls local tournaments before the big local tournament coming this august.
Creatures
1 Earwig Squad
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Spells
1 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
4 AEther Vial
Lands
3 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3 Plateau
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Earwig Squad
2 Pyroblast
2 Tarfire
1 Warren Weirding
2 Wear
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
Edit:: Well that was pathetic. I didn't get to really test the changes, since I lost 1-3. I won violently against Merfolks, but I lost against 3 Burn decks. Yup, three burn decks. It was a 12-men tournament (people were at the big tournament at Ottawa), and I got three burn decks against me... :mad:
Any other deck would have been fine, or at lest a difficult but feasible matchup. There was a WUR delver, a Painterstone, an Affinity, two Dredges, one Sneak and Show, a Reanimator, a Merfolk, me, and the three burn decks. I've played against each one of the other decks, and prepared my side against them. But I got three burns. :cry:
But I alpha-striked the Merfolk player for 54 in a turn, so I got that going for me...
O-rings were useful, so they may stay there, Grenzo was absolutely useless (but to be fair, he couldn't be useful against Burn and merfolk was a race, so I couldn't afford casting him, I still need to see how he fares against control decks), I will maindeck all the tarfires and side the warrens weirdings, and Krenko was lackluster. Considering replacing him with SGC again. Gotta test it.
Has anyone tried out the Kiki-Jiki Goblin Settler combo in lieu of the Sharpshooter prosector combo?
I keep finding Chalice of the Void to be powerful. It would have been great against burn. Other than that I personally have found to be a slightly dis-favorable match-up, and possibly worse with the printing of Eidolon of the Great Revel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raznaak
I personally found Grenzo, Dungeon Warden to be very powerful against merfolk with the exception of their excellent draw of more than 1 True-Name Nemesis. After a few very, very small tournaments though I found he was best against decks that rely on heavy counter-spell permission, not very good against straight tempo, and straight up bad against combo. Which hits the exact opposite of every axis we want. We are already great against counter-spells, reasonable against tempo, and straight up bad against combo.
I have, but not extensively. My meta shifts to such a manner that we sometimes we end up with several Shardless BUG Lists with 0-1 Marit Lage deck. When this happens I put a Goblin Settler in the board and swap my win condition from Siege-Gang Commander to Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Unfortunately the situation of the two being in play has yet to happen or get close to happening. I have on the other hand drawn Goblin Settler and found him to be pretty bad alone with the two exceptions of blowing up Maze of Ith and fighting 12-post.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoiledDenim
Edit: Sorry you had to play against so many Burn decks. Sounds like that was terrible-- It'd be pretty hard not to go on tilt out of anger.